Would it be better if guild traders displayed the current highest bid (without naming names)?

Deome

The guild trader system is still completely screwed up. Smaller guilds are routinely locked out of guild traders because they don't have millions of gold to dump, or are forced to choose a guild trader in the middle of nowhere in order to have a reasonable hope of securing a trader. Those of us who have failed the post-maintenance scramble for a trader know there's got to be a better way to spend a Monday morning.

Here's my proposal--a simple and elegant fix that ZOS could implement next week if they so choose:

Dennizon

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

Small guilds will not benefit from what you propose because larger guilds will always have more gold. With a closed-bidding system you force larger guilds to waste money, or at least make a mistake and miss the mark on their bids. As soon as you let them see the tally, it will ensure they can dump the required money and lock poorer guilds out in my opinion.

Deome

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

Dennizon wrote: »

Small guilds will not benefit from what you propose because larger guilds will always have more gold. With a closed-bidding system you force larger guilds to waste money, or at least make a mistake and miss the mark on their bids. As soon as you let them see the tally, it will ensure they can dump the required money and lock poorer guilds out in my opinion.

If I see a large guild swinging 500k or 5mil on a kiosk, I go to another kiosk. They can only bid on one, so they're still going to waste money or wait until 4:54 to place a bid or whatever because they're run by obsessive control-junkies (I used to tell Focus he should quit before he strokes out by 25. Thankfully for his health, he did). Meanwhile, I can see that Evermore or Coldharbour are competing far closer to my price range and bid there.

Dennizon

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

Deome wrote: »

Dennizon wrote: »

Small guilds will not benefit from what you propose because larger guilds will always have more gold. With a closed-bidding system you force larger guilds to waste money, or at least make a mistake and miss the mark on their bids. As soon as you let them see the tally, it will ensure they can dump the required money and lock poorer guilds out in my opinion.

If I see a large guild swinging 500k or 5mil on a kiosk, I go to another kiosk. They can only bid on one, so they're still going to waste money or wait until 4:54 to place a bid or whatever because they're run by obsessive control-junkies (I used to tell Focus he should quit before he strokes out by 25. Thankfully for his health, he did). Meanwhile, I can see that Evermore or Coldharbour are competing far closer to my price range and bid there.

That idea holds if, and when, there are more kiosks in desirable locations. I would support this idea if there was a way to search all kiosks from one location; you still need to bid on and pay for a location to play, but you don't penalize the buyer. As long as places like Rawl'ka are considered premium spots due to convenience, then I think its better to keep the bids closed so that the superpower guilds face at least some disadvantage.

maryriv

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

What really upsets me is I go to a guild vendor area and most of the guild stores there have 1 or 2 pages of pure junk... what gives?

Deome

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

If anything, the super-guilds would be forced to outbid each other every week, could get silly--which is the whole point.

Meanwhile, I could drop 2x as the next highest bid in Riften or Evermore, go to bed happy and knowing that folks will try to outbid the other kiosks first.

The idea also holds if it allow guilds to reasonably bid within their means--everyone knows to avoid Rawl, but things could be competitive and still amicable in Shadowfen or Malabal Tor.

maryriv

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

Deome wrote: »

If anything, the super-guilds would be forced to outbid each other every week, could get silly--which is the whole point.

Meanwhile, I could drop 2x as the next highest bid in Riften or Evermore, go to bed happy and knowing that folks will try to outbid the other kiosks first.

The idea also holds if it allow guilds to reasonably bid within their means--everyone knows to avoid Rawl, but things could be competitive and still amicable in Shadowfen or Malabal Tor.

That makes sense.

Casdha

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid and the guild who placed the bid

I voted this way with one thing to add. I'm not sure how it works now but funds should be held until sale is final and if someone runs up the bid then they have to be stuck with the sale if they win. No way to ever default to the next highest bidder. because someone can't afford it.

Thelon

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

How much I bid, when I bid and where I bid is no one's business but my own, in my opinion.

maryriv

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

Thelon wrote: »

How much I bid, when I bid and where I bid is no one's business but my own, in my opinion.

Yet I can see all of that in your guild history.

Thelon

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

maryriv wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

How much I bid, when I bid and where I bid is no one's business but my own, in my opinion.

Yet I can see all of that in your guild history.

And I continue to raise this issue with ZOS when I meet with them every month. They made an improvement in 1.6 by hiding this information until after bidding closes, which is a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

squidgod2000b14_ESO

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid and the guild who placed the bid

I imagine people might be surprised how much of the tax/raffle money which supposedly goes towards vendor bids ends up in the guild leaders pocket.

Thelon

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

squidgod2000b14_ESO wrote: »

I imagine people might be surprised how much of the tax/raffle money which supposedly goes towards vendor bids ends up in the guild leaders pocket.

And probably more surprised how much GMs spend out of their own pockets to buy raffle prizes and bolster their trader bids.

xaraan

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

No. It would just make it easier to snipe at the last second. What they need to do is fix the bid display so spies can't see what a guild is bidding. Small guilds with crappy selection don't deserve to be in prime spots frankly and waste everyone's time if they happen to snag a spot. If you are in a major traffic area, I expect to see a lot of selection of all kinds in your store and guilds that can't afford to bid for those spots don't have that selection.

Athas24

Maybe - Guild traders could show the previous week's winning bid, but not current week

The blind auction is 100% fine. The problem is that the auctioneer takes your money no matter what! There's no Blind auction in the entire WORLD that operates that way. Oh hey, I have a painting for sale you all bid blindly and I'll give it to the highest bidder but I'm keeping ALL the bids? Get Real. Nobody would go for that. Outside of the bids being kept, the system is great.

c0rp

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

How does showing a bid of 2 million gold help a guild that has 300k in the bank? Oh... it doesn't. The current system is fine.

Thelon

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

Athas24 wrote: »

The blind auction is 100% fine. The problem is that the auctioneer takes your money no matter what! There's no Blind auction in the entire WORLD that operates that way. Oh hey, I have a painting for sale you all bid blindly and I'll give it to the highest bidder but I'm keeping ALL the bids? Get Real. Nobody would go for that. Outside of the bids being kept, the system is great.

Unsuccessful bids are refunded once the bidding for the week closes.

maryriv

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

Thelon wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

How much I bid, when I bid and where I bid is no one's business but my own, in my opinion.

Yet I can see all of that in your guild history.

And I continue to raise this issue with ZOS when I meet with them every month. They made an improvement in 1.6 by hiding this information until after bidding closes, which is a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

I agree with that. His proposal though doesn't say who you are so it is not a good reason to vote "no".

Jaerlach

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

Thelon wrote: »

How much I bid, when I bid and where I bid is no one's business but my own, in my opinion.

I admit I don't understand your perspective. I was in your guild for months, and then also in ESE as well. You consistently do massively higher sales in ESE than your own guild (or so MM tells me). Is that really something you see as desirable? I can only presume that as a GM you would rather be paying tax to your own guild instead of someone else's that you have actively outbid before.

The current system is awful.

AlnilamE

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

Casdha wrote: »

I voted this way with one thing to add. I'm not sure how it works now but funds should be held until sale is final and if someone runs up the bid then they have to be stuck with the sale if they win. No way to ever default to the next highest bidder. because someone can't afford it.

That is how it works. When the bid is placed, the funds are taken out of the guild bank and held. If you lose, the money is put back in your guild bank.

Jules

Maybe - Guild traders could show the previous week's winning bid, but not current week

Athas24 wrote: »

The blind auction is 100% fine. The problem is that the auctioneer takes your money no matter what! There's no Blind auction in the entire WORLD that operates that way. Oh hey, I have a painting for sale you all bid blindly and I'll give it to the highest bidder but I'm keeping ALL the bids? Get Real. Nobody would go for that. Outside of the bids being kept, the system is great.

You are misinformed. Unsuccessful bids are returned immediately to the guilds.

Jules

Maybe - Guild traders could show the previous week's winning bid, but not current week

Also:
I think it would hurt small guilds to have bids done this way. I do however like the idea of knowing the previous week. This way guilds aren't bidding 500k when it could've been won with 250k.

snackrat

I Don't Know - But anything is better than the way things are now.

If they had a "highest bid" indicator (ie they tell you if your bid is highest), and allowed you to rebid/remove bids ONCE an hour (and ONLY if they are too low), but kept the ACTUAL bid values hidden...
...that should hopefully keep people in the right ballpark of the competition without allowing the tiny ones to be easily steamrolled, and allow people who know they're outbid to either up their ante, or witdraw for another stall. The 1h cooldown is to prevent massive bidding wars between two competing rich guilds.

maryriv

YES - Guild traders should show their current highest bid (without naming the bidding guild)

snackrat wrote: »

If they had a "highest bid" indicator (ie they tell you if your bid is highest), and allowed you to rebid/remove bids ONCE an hour (and ONLY if they are too low), but kept the ACTUAL bid values hidden...
...that should hopefully keep people in the right ballpark of the competition without allowing the tiny ones to be easily steamrolled, and allow people who know they're outbid to either up their ante, or witdraw for another stall. The 1h cooldown is to prevent massive bidding wars between two competing rich guilds.

That could work, the current system needs serious help though.

OrdainedFaun

Indeed it does. It really hurts when you get outbid by someone with less than 3 pages of items in their guild store because they had spies in your guild looking at history > bank > withdrawals. I play this game to have fun, not to have to constantly search my guild roster for potential spies trying to see my bids.

Divad Zarn

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

Definitely no, that was discussed many times after 1.3 update and ZOS make right decision to close shown bidding from everywhere.

LameoveR

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

who cares?

Thelon

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

Jaerlach wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

How much I bid, when I bid and where I bid is no one's business but my own, in my opinion.

I admit I don't understand your perspective. I was in your guild for months, and then also in ESE as well. You consistently do massively higher sales in ESE than your own guild (or so MM tells me). Is that really something you see as desirable? I can only presume that as a GM you would rather be paying tax to your own guild instead of someone else's that you have actively outbid before.

The current system is awful.

I'm flattered that you track what I sell and where I sell it. Please send me fan mail too!

Thelon's a Top Seller in Eastcoast and Elder Scrolls Exchange

Nice red herring btw. Worth an awesome.

Hamrb

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

Ok. I am a GM of a newer guild, we have 490+ members and a 10 day inactivity policy. I want to start off by saying, I like the guild vendor system. My problem is that I'm a new guild leader, with plenty of $$ to spend on guild vendors. We want to buy one in a good spot, not hoping for rawl'kah or anything that great. But what I'm finding is that I can't promise my guildies a vendor because I have 0 clue if my bid will win. I've lost 3 weeks straight now, bidding WELL over 50K.

What I'd like to suggest is a NPC or some sort of bulletin in each main guild vendor area, that states what the average price was for all the vendors there. You could have one for mournhold, belkarth, rawl, grahtwood, etc... Can average out all the ones in mournhold together, and then do an average for the rest of the vendors in Deshaan. so there would be two different places to see prices.

I believe that this will help the learning curve for an active guild like mine, that at least deserves a shot at a trader. And at the same time you wont be giving any information up on individual guilds that could alter the system completely
.
there are 4guild vendors in rawl'kah I believe. Say that 2 of the vendors sold for 1 million gold, 2 sold for 3 million. There would be a place in rawl kah that says average vendor price this week, 2 Millions Gold.

Just a thought. Forums feel free to tell me how dumb this is and why haha.

Guilds like mine are fighting too large of a learning curve, and I cant keep every good member, because we don't have a good vendor :-/. and In turn it makes it harder to get a vendor. see the cycle here?

PASTED.
this seems like a fair fix IMO

redspecter23

Maybe - Guild traders could show the previous week's winning bid, but not current week

I voted maybe. Showing the winning bid for the previous week could help many guilds get an idea of pricing though it might have the side effect of inflating them over time. People will assume that's the price to beat the next week.

The thought of showing the current high bid is extremely bad as it means that the best time to bid will be in the final seconds in order to shield your bid from sniping. True, the guild name won't be listed but if I'm bidding in location X, I don't need to know the name of the person I'm bidding against, just the total. Also this actually leads to the opposite goal of what the OP desires. You will not get an accurate idea of what the kiosk is going for ahead of time as the best time to bid is 1 minute before close for safety purposes to prevent anyone from outbidding you. You essentially are left with a blind system that only allows for bidding in the last seconds each week with a bunch of guilds foolishly bidding early and needing to come back to top off the bid if they are outbid anyway.

Alphashado

NO - Guild traders should continue the closed-bidding system.

squidgod2000b14_ESO wrote: »

I imagine people might be surprised how much of the tax/raffle money which supposedly goes towards vendor bids ends up in the guild leaders pocket.

This is an insult to all the GMs out there that bust their arse and often use their own money to support their guild and keep it successful.

I am in 4 very good trading guilds and I am an officer in one of them. I can assure you that these guilds aren't run by crooks. They are run by honest people that work very hard for no other reason than to supply a great trading guild for the other 495 people on the roster. Most of whom have no clue how much work is involved and have very little appreciation for it.

OrdainedFaun wrote: »

Indeed it does. It really hurts when you get outbid by someone with less than 3 pages of items in their guild store because they had spies in your guild looking at history > bank > withdrawals. I play this game to have fun, not to have to constantly search my guild roster for potential spies trying to see my bids.

Yes, that does indeed suck. We have resorted to withdrawing various random amounts the night before the bid in order to prevent spies from knowing how much we bid that week and we fluctuate the bid amount each week with a secret pattern. It sucks that we have to resort to such tactics.

My biggest complaint with the system is that after losing a bid, that guild is likely stuck w/o a trader. Any trader. For a week.

You may be fortunate enough to scramble around right after maint and find one if you are lucky, but that is a crap shoot. There should be a way for guilds with losing bids to still acquire a trader in some crappy location so they at least have one for the week. A big part of the problem (as mentioned by someone earlier in this thread) is that right now there are too many rich individuals with nothing better to spend their gold on than kiosk bids. So then you end up with some dude and his 3 friends taking a kioks and filling it with 2 pages of rubbish since they are limited to 30 listings each. That is bad for the market and just wastes the time of all the people looking for a good kiosk to buy from.

I am certainly not opposed to a free market and everyone is entitled to give it a go with a guild trader, but the prime locations should be going to full guilds rather than one bored rich guy that has a spy in an established guild.