Premium Sub Needs some work.

yoda101280ub17_ESO

So I'll just start by saying that I think Zenimax did a pretty good job when it comes to the F2P model. It's always a plus where you can play the game and not feel like you HAVE to spend money to get where you want to be with your character or just have fun. Now that being said the Premium Subscription offering needs some work. I started playing ESO a week ago, I played in open beta but beyond that had never touched the game. When they dropped the monthly sub' I decided I give it a shot and while I still have some issues with the game I am enjoying it a lot. I'm the type of person where when I'm enjoying a F2P game and I think I'll stick around I don't mind giving them a little money. With that in mind I can't really see any point in paying for a premium subscription right now. You get 10% xp bonus, access to DLC and xpacs, an a monthly allotment of crowns.

Now just for the sake of testing it out I went ahead and bought a monthly sub, canceled it right after just b/c I already know it's useless but I wanted to confirm. Right so with that sub I get 1500 crowns, that's cool but I could buy those crowns easily w/o a sub' so that's no reason to get one. You get a 10% xp bonus, this is a thing that would hook me if it wasn't so small. A 10% bonus to xp is too small to make any tangible difference to make spending money on a sub' to have it a good idea. Before I sub'd I had leveled my first character up to level 24, he was 24 and about one quarter through to 25. After I sub'd I leveled another character through the same two zones after he finished he was also level 24 but about three quarters into the bar to 25. So that's a pretty clear before and after shot of what that 10% xp is worth, which is essentially nothing. As I stated I'm one of those people where an xp bonus is a hook, it's one of those things where it strongly influences whether I'd get an optional sub, it may not be logical but that's just true for me. In this case though the xp bonus is just to small to warrant the cost, especially when the other offerings for premium subs' are pretty underwhelming as well.

Last thing I'm aware of is that you get access to all DLC and expansion packs as long as your sub is active. Now this one would actually be a pretty strong reason to sub if not for the fact that to my knowledge there don't seem to be any DLC or expansions for this game yet. I'd be lying if I said I followed this game closely since I hadn't planned on playing it before so correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there are any. I also am not even aware of any plans for one, now I'm sure they are working on one, that's just the nature of this genre but I simply means there doesn't seem to be any news or rumblings floating around about any so it must not be any time soon. So again this just makes the premium sub' that much less attractive.

I guess I just feel the Premium Subscription needs more as right now it is the biggest waste of money, it's actually more advantageous to not sub' to the game right now. As I said that's a great thing to have a strong F2P model but if you're also going to offer a sub option it needs to be worth that commitment. I'm enjoying the game, I plan to stick around for at least a few months and I'm perfectly willing to sub' for those months but there's no way I would currently b/c you don't really get anything for that cost. At the moment it would simply just be a better investment to take any money you would pay on a sub' and put it all into crowns at least then you would get something tangible in return. I know there may be no immediate "fix" for this but in the short term bumping that xp bonus to 20% might at least make it marginally worth it.

Wolfshead

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

yoda101280ub17_ESO

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

You say that like that has any impact on what I said, yes ESO is B2P, I made a small slip in my wording I think most intelligent people would recognize that but that literally has no impact on the issue I'm talking about here. So congrats to you I guess...?

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

While I don't think the OP has any good points to make, your reason for dismissing it is simply not valid.

There's precious little difference between B2P and F2P, the one-off cost of the game is trivial in the longer term when it comes to the game surviving.

Valymer

Here's my take on the 10% exp bonus.

If I have to grind 10 hours to reach a goal, the bonus shaves off one hour of grinding.

One hour of my time = about $20-50

If I look at it like that it's definitely worth it

heyjeremy

Right now subscribing is a deal if you want to purchase crowns, because not only will you get crowns but a 10% bonus XP and research time. Other than that it's a waiting game.

ItsMeToo

There are plenty of threads on this topic already. You might want to do a search and read them.

Misa

1500 crowns in Danish kr = 99 kr ~ 13 euro 1 month of sub = 99 kr ~ 13 euro

so well by having a sub you get 1500 crowns + all the extras for free

if you sub 3 months at a time you get it even cheaper

can't see why it isn't worth it compared to just buying crowns

fun fact: danish currency is danish crowns so basically I'd just be exchanging crowns

LordSkyKnight

Want to know what I think? I think you are being a cheapskate. It's 15 dollars. That is hardly anything in consideration what everything else costs these days. They not only give you 1.5k crowns, you give the other bonuses on top of it.


Stop being a cheapskate.

yoda101280ub17_ESO

Misa wrote: »

1500 crowns in Danish kr = 99 kr ~ 13 euro 1 month of sub = 99 kr ~ 13 euro

so well by having a sub you get 1500 crowns + all the extras for free

if you sub 3 months at a time you get it even cheaper

can't see why it isn't worth it compared to just buying crowns

fun fact: danish currency is danish crowns so basically I'd just be exchanging crowns

You're focusing more on the dollar for dollar, which is important but I'm also factoring in simple practicality. One of the large driving forces behind a pay store is that people want a thing and they want it right then, they don't want to work or save for it. So if I have a sub' I get those 1500 crowns a month. Lets say this is my first month, I see that spiffy 'fire horse' in the store (I forget the actual name) and I want to get it, it's 2500 crowns. Now I can wait for my next monthly stipend or I can spend another $15 now to get another 1500 crowns so I can afford it. That's cool and that works but then on top of that your next month still roles around and you get charged another $15 dollars, so that's now $45 dollars you've spent b/c you wanted that horse and didn't want to wait until next month. Then take the guy with no sub in that same situation, he spends $25 on a 3k crown pack and gets the horse that same day.

Now I realize mileage may vary, over the long term as you exhaust things you might want to buy from the store those crowns you're getting monthly would stack and then it could be a boon or if you're not a new player right now and many things in the store just don't really appeal to you b/c you have cool items from high level content, etc. Personally though right now sub' just doesn't seem appealing to me, essentially you're paying $15 dollars a month for 10% xp bonus.

yoda101280ub17_ESO

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Want to know what I think? I think you are being a cheapskate. It's 15 dollars. That is hardly anything in consideration what everything else costs these days. They not only give you 1.5k crowns, you give the other bonuses on top of it.


Stop being a cheapskate.

I think you're stating non-sense and obviously didn't read what I wrote, as I mentioned quite clearly I'm more than willing to spend money on the game and I have in fact purchased a sub to test the benefits.

Daraugh

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

I did the same thing, f2p has a very different vibe than b2p does. Wording matters.

Misa

yoda101280ub17_ESO wrote: »

Misa wrote: »

1500 crowns in Danish kr = 99 kr ~ 13 euro 1 month of sub = 99 kr ~ 13 euro

so well by having a sub you get 1500 crowns + all the extras for free

if you sub 3 months at a time you get it even cheaper

can't see why it isn't worth it compared to just buying crowns

fun fact: danish currency is danish crowns so basically I'd just be exchanging crowns

You're focusing more on the dollar for dollar, which is important but I'm also factoring in simple practicality. One of the large driving forces behind a pay store is that people want a thing and they want it right then, they don't want to work or save for it. So if I have a sub' I get those 1500 crowns a month. Lets say this is my first month, I see that spiffy 'fire horse' in the store (I forget the actual name) and I want to get it, it's 2500 crowns. Now I can wait for my next monthly stipend or I can spend another $15 now to get another 1500 crowns so I can afford it. That's cool and that works but then on top of that your next month still roles around and you get charged another $15 dollars, so that's now $45 dollars you've spent b/c you wanted that horse and didn't want to wait until next month. Then take the guy with no sub in that same situation, he spends $25 on a 3k crown pack and gets the horse that same day.

Now I realize mileage may vary, over the long term as you exhaust things you might want to buy from the store those crowns you're getting monthly would stack and then it could be a boon or if you're not a new player right now and many things in the store just don't really appeal to you b/c you have cool items from high level content, etc. Personally though right now sub' just doesn't seem appealing to me, essentially you're paying $15 dollars a month for 10% xp bonus.

ooor you could buy a gametime card and add it to your account, that would give you the crowns instantly

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

I agree. The cost simply does not match the reward.
$15 is acceptable. I would prefer lower but I can manage this much.
The 10% bonus is negligible at best and when there is no information on DLC or pricing that bonus is useless at this time.
The only thing remaining is the crowns which can be purchased directly for more per dollar.

They desperately need to revise either the price or the bonuses before I would consider a subscription worth purchasing.

Psychobunni

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

While I don't think the OP has any good points to make, your reason for dismissing it is simply not valid.

There's precious little difference between B2P and F2P, the one-off cost of the game is trivial in the longer term when it comes to the game surviving.

I agree little difference. My guess is some harp on it because they see F2P as less than and don't want to give up on the last vestige of belief that this model is better. (There are F2P games with subs too btw) or it it simply trolling with lack of anything better to say.

This game was pay to play, its not anymore. For anyone who already had the game at switch its now F2P for them as they had already bought it under different conditions. Meh, its all semantics

Misa

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

I agree. The cost simply does not match the reward.
$15 is acceptable. I would prefer lower but I can manage this much.
The 10% bonus is negligible at best and when there is no information on DLC or pricing that bonus is useless at this time.
The only thing remaining is the crowns which can be purchased directly for more per dollar.

They desperately need to revise either the price or the bonuses before I would consider a subscription worth purchasing.

then don't subscribe and buy the crowns for whenever you want to get something from the crown store? you'd pay more in the end though as suddenly you need to buy crowns for dlc when they release some while those with subs paid less for the same amount of crown store content + they get extras

yoda101280ub17_ESO

Valymer wrote: »

Here's my take on the 10% exp bonus.

If I have to grind 10 hours to reach a goal, the bonus shaves off one hour of grinding.

One hour of my time = about $20-50

If I look at it like that it's definitely worth it

I look at in terms of tangible difference. Example on the first character I mentioned my 24 sorc I was not aware of the weapons with the 'training' affix which increase skill line progression. So my Sorc' at 24 has a Destruction staff level of 32 at 24. On another character I made, also 24 now and also using the staff but this time I was aware of the 'training' items from about level 9 and on, his Destruction staff level is 36.

Now I don't know how long it would take me to fill that 4 level difference but it's more than an hour I'm sure. To me that's a pretty tangible difference of an xp bonus. Now I'm not saying xp as it relates to leveling and the sub' has to be the same, I'm not expecting to be four levels higher than I am but I do want to feel like that bonus actually has some impact.

Zet-7

But it has an effect. You get a "free" kill for every tenth mob you slay.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

Misa wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

I agree. The cost simply does not match the reward.
$15 is acceptable. I would prefer lower but I can manage this much.
The 10% bonus is negligible at best and when there is no information on DLC or pricing that bonus is useless at this time.
The only thing remaining is the crowns which can be purchased directly for more per dollar.

They desperately need to revise either the price or the bonuses before I would consider a subscription worth purchasing.

then don't subscribe and buy the crowns for whenever you want to get something from the crown store? you'd pay more in the end though as suddenly you need to buy crowns for dlc when they release some while those with subs paid less for the same amount of crown store content + they get extras

There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim.
To the best of my knowledge there is nothing announced for DLC or how much it will be.
Presuming I purchased little to no crowns at all I could easily spend considerably less than anybody with a monthly subscription. Sure, I may be wrong. However the DLC would have to be rather expensive to justify a subscription.

A monthly subscription currently stands at around 1/4 of the game's total cost. A small amount of crowns, bonus experience, and "free" DLC that has absolutely no information does not justify this cost IMO.

Presuming it were another 6 months to a year before we got DLC that is $90 - $180. Unless you legitimately think that DLC will be priced this high your entire point is here is nonsense. Even if I purchased crowns, which would be unlikely or only on occasion, I would be unlikely to spend even close to this amount on both the DLC's final cost + crowns.

Jaxsun

Shh, don't tell them, they'll start gating everything...

wraith808

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

While I don't think the OP has any good points to make, your reason for dismissing it is simply not valid.

There's precious little difference between B2P and F2P, the one-off cost of the game is trivial in the longer term when it comes to the game surviving.

Not so trivial, in all honesty. Even before there were micro-transactions, GW survived for years after box and DLC sales.

FrancKaos

I think they need to make one change for subscribers (The crown allowance and XP boost are fine), but all DLC you aquire as a subscriber is freely given (and kept) as paid for by your subscription - obviously, subscription couldn't be started one month before DLC release, make DLC like a loyalty requirement. I can't imagine DLC costing much anyway.

Buy to play, btw, doesn't negate its free to play status or vice versa - MMO fans and their acronyms <shakes head wisely>... You need a new acronym...
F2D&PBP2WCS
Free 2 Download & Play But Pay 2 Win Cash Shop. /kind'a joke

lihentian

you get 10% bonus to exp, gold and inspiration.

yoda101280ub17_ESO

Misa wrote: »

1500 crowns in Danish kr = 99 kr ~ 13 euro 1 month of sub = 99 kr ~ 13 euro

so well by having a sub you get 1500 crowns + all the extras for free

if you sub 3 months at a time you get it even cheaper

can't see why it isn't worth it compared to just buying crowns

fun fact: danish currency is danish crowns so basically I'd just be exchanging crowns

You're focusing more on the dollar for dollar, which is important but I'm also factoring in simple practicality.

wraith808 wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

While I don't think the OP has any good points to make, your reason for dismissing it is simply not valid.

There's precious little difference between B2P and F2P, the one-off cost of the game is trivial in the longer term when it comes to the game surviving.

Not so trivial, in all honesty. Even before there were micro-transactions, GW survived for years after box and DLC sales.

That game was also much cheaper to maintain though in basically every aspect you can think of. Server advances alone make running an MMO these days much more expensive, an advanced cloud network is a very expensive thing to maintain and that is the direction online servers are going.

gard

yoda101280ub17_ESO wrote: »

You're focusing more on the dollar for dollar, which is important but I'm also factoring in simple practicality. One of the large driving forces behind a pay store is that people want a thing and they want it right then, they don't want to work or save for it. So if I have a sub' I get those 1500 crowns a month. Lets say this is my first month, I see that spiffy 'fire horse' in the store (I forget the actual name) and I want to get it, it's 2500 crowns. Now I can wait for my next monthly stipend or I can spend another $15 now to get another 1500 crowns so I can afford it. That's cool and that works but then on top of that your next month still roles around and you get charged another $15 dollars, so that's now $45 dollars you've spent b/c you wanted that horse and didn't want to wait until next month. Then take the guy with no sub in that same situation, he spends $25 on a 3k crown pack and gets the horse that same day.

Now I realize mileage may vary, over the long term as you exhaust things you might want to buy from the store those crowns you're getting monthly would stack and then it could be a boon or if you're not a new player right now and many things in the store just don't really appeal to you b/c you have cool items from high level content, etc. Personally though right now sub' just doesn't seem appealing to me, essentially you're paying $15 dollars a month for 10% xp bonus.

tl;dr concise version:
Derp

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

This ^^

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

This ^^

The game's initial cost is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Congratulations, you're completely oblivious and ignorant. If a slip-up on terminology upsets you this much I highly recommend going outside and living your life a little.
I really do not mean to attack or offend you, but if this minor error is all you care about in this topic than something is wrong.

GamerzElite

ESO Plus plan is crap right now,

XP Boost: I have 3 V14 toon SO I dont need any XP boost.

1500 Crowns: I personally didn't find anything useful. I hate stupid pet running around me, Having all the motifs so no to motifs.

DLC: There no info abt DLC, even up-coming contents are postponed. May be new content come after September. SO its meaningless to subscribe for DLC access.

I will definitely buy PLUS when DLC come.

Amsel_McKay

Daraugh wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

Honest i stop read after i read F2P ^^ serious ESO is not F2P it is B2P which mean you need to buy the game before you can play when people learn the different F2P and B2P

I did the same thing, f2p has a very different vibe than b2p does. Wording matters.

Its as F2P as any F2P game I play, I bought the box a year ago and when the game went "B2P" I got items that compensated me for that purchase. LoTRO was the same I bought the box 2 years before it became F2P I was compensated in items when it became F2P...

At this point there is little difference between B2P and F2P other then in the eyes of fans who can say "my game is not F2P".

The first purchase (which you can get for $20 online) goes to the first DLC, "unlimited" and 500 crowns. Then the game is F2P, they are making money through normal F2P methods and even advertising to people those F2P items. All future content is under pay gates be that buying it in the store or paying a monthly rental fee.

To the people who cant see the .00000001% of the difference between B2P and F2P need to take a step back and define the differences. The first paygate is the same as most F2P games that give you a little free up front but if you want to play the "unlimited" game you must buy DLC... ESO is even worse because they dont have DLC yet...

Oh and when ESO gets 2 or 3 DLCs available they WILL make the first box F2P... They just could not do it "yet" because the store is not making up the lost money they spent making this "AAA" title for 78million.

Naivefanboi

sub model is fine as it is.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

Naivefanboi wrote: »

sub model is fine as it is.

While it varies quite a bit there are plenty of players who are not satisfied with it.
It is quite obviously not "fine" but merely agreeable to a separate group of players.
Many, but not all, of this group are people who do not have to worry about the cost due to being a minor, having a well-paying job, or have few financial responsibilities.
For me $15 is doable. However, I do not value these bonuses at $15 and I do not have the luxury of throwing out money on something that I find to be a mediocre deal at best.

The fair number of players, such as myself, who do not believe the current cost is justifiable clearly shows that the current model could use some adjusting. This does not mean it is wrong or needs to be removed, simply adjusted to be worth the asking price.