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• EU megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 16:00 UTC (11:00AM EST)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 6, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EST (21:00 UTC)
Biggest Issue in the Game*
Ser Lobo
✭✭✭✭✭
✭
✭
*In my opinion, of course.
Grouping
It takes many forms and methods, but as a whole, it's what Elder Scrolls Online does worst. Grouping with friends and taking part in content is not only non-intuitive, game mechanics often make it completely impractical or even impossible.
There is no queue system for easily taking part in content. The Looking for Group tool is not only faulty and buggy, but even in it's best implementation has very little effective use.
Grouping itself is still very buggy and unreliable, and may force a group to exit and reload an instance multiple times before the group can participate in the content.
In the end, for such a large and detailed game with the scope and capabilities the game has, it's biggest drawback is the multiplayer aspect. This needs to be resolved.
Constructive Feedback
I'm not going to begin to pretend I understand why the relatively simple and essential act of players forming a group in game is so broken. But to say that any other mechanic added to make grouping more effective MUST START WITH THIS FIX is an understatement. In a multiplayer game such as this, it's essential that every group, every time, work. It is something players take for granted in other games, but somehow, in ESO, we're reminded that when the simplest system is flawed, it can make the whole game flawed.
With that said, there ARE additional improvements which can be made.
Looking For Group
As a starters, lets revisit a system already in place .. and underused. Looking for group is a great way to find players to do all kinds of events that don't revolve around instanced content, such as dungeons.
The principle of Looking for Group is you advertise that you are interested in playing and looking for other players. This means an easy menu system to find open groups, to put yourself as looking for a group, and to set what's expected. What content is the group running (dolmens, public dungeons, Cyrodiil content, socializing, roleplay, etc)? What level is the content dedicated for? What role is the player needed (healer, tank, damage, etc)?
Another key to allowing this to function is teleporting the player to the group when they are joined, to ease the joining.
And as many have figured out, grouping for single missions in Craglorn can be a serious issue.
Queue's
For a simpler, more straightforward approach, I would recommend copying a queue system from other games. Players visit a screen and choose to queue up for the content of their choice, be it a dungeon, a delve, a dolmen or even PvP. When enough players are signed up for the event, they are transported from anywhere to that event's location.
This eases dungeon delves, trials and small-scale PvP encounters by allowing short bursts of play.
Small-Scale PvP
While the goal of Cyrodiil is an ambitious one, and it's primary focus is the capture and conquest of keeps, it leaves much to be desired for the smaller, more intense 20minute engagements common in other games.
One method of addressing this is popularly called 'Arenas'. This is in keeping with lore, and would allow small groups of players to fight in controlled fights for short periods of time. This combination allows multiple game modes (deathmatch, objective based, survival, etc), map types (different arena styles, some larger or smaller, symetrical and asymetrical), and varying numbers of players (1v1, 3v3, 4v4v4, etc).
The negative impact of Arena's are most commonly pointed out as: they will reduce the overall population of Cyrodiil, and take focus off of the primary function of PvP and Endgame in ESO; and they will put pressure on developers to adjust the freeform method of class and power design to be more suitable for arena battles, causing nerfs and affecting players in both Cyrodiil AND PVE Tamriel.
As a second idea would be 'Skirmishes'. These small-scale battles would happen at various locations throughout Cyrodiil, in real time, and they would have an impact on the overall battle of Cyrodiil. They would be limited engagements over standard objectives on the world map (farm houses, sawmills, etc), usually far away from any larger player groups. Players in queue would be 'teleported' to their alliances command wagon, and the fight would commence over that objective. The battle area would be 'roped off' to prevent the rest of the population of Cyrodiil from interfering. The fight would have a time limit of 10 minutes or so. The number of combatants would be limited on each team to balance the engagement. The winner of the fight would take control of the objective. After the time limit is reached, all combatants would be returned to where they queued from, teleported back out of the battlefield.
As it would obviously show, this form of limited small-scale PVP would also support the larger battle for Cyrodiil. The negative impact is that the 'magical' boundry area's would take the world-map players out of the action for a short period of time. As well, such small-scale fighting will still put stress on developers to adjust class balance according to goals other than what is currently in place.
In either event, the end goal is appealing to a customer base who may not partake in Cyrodiil PvP due to several legitimate reasons (dislike of zerging, detesting the horse-riding simulation feel, frustration with laggy battles which cause both friends and foes to be a confusing jumble of teleporting anomalies), but who may not be against PvP in general.
Public Dungeon Delves
The current experience of a delve has left many frustrated with the experience. While it highlights what many see are the 'golden era' of MMO design, it also shows the flaws and abuse in those mechanics. Having any player in a zone capable of seeing any other and joining in haphazard battle against dangerous enemies is a great concept and ideal. But in any scenario where more players are involved, the chances of running into those who are disruptive to others experience, either by negligence or design, are more likely.
Limiting the max population per instance of Public Dungeon Delves is an ideal way to show that, while this is a living, breathing world ... it's not really full of grind groups and overpowered characters. If a delve is setup, by design, to be best suited to only three or four players max, then set that as a soft limit (by soft limit, I mean that if a bunch of players are grouped and the group is larger than three or four, allow them to enter an instance of their own, instead of preventing them from grouping and enjoying the content together).
Obviously Cyrodiil public dungeon delves would not change from their current experience, as it is a PvP environment first and foremost.
Dolmens
As another public experience, I recommend that Delves be adjusted to the size of the group and it's power of the players involved. Other games have a mechanic where enemies aren't a particular level, but are rated to take and give damage to all players in even proportion (they hit higher level players harder, lower level players less, and take the same amount of damage from all sources), thus equalizing the experience no matter the level of the participants.
As well, introducing longer encounters, more varied experiences, and possible rare occurances (such as the introduction of world bosses who may spawn if a large number of players is at a dolmen, or environmental effects, or even sometimes drawing players into Coldharbor after a dolmen is complete, etc), may make the experience more enjoyable to all grouping players.
Dungeons, Trials and Epic Content
As with all other grouping, more background support is necessary to make the instanced Dungeons and Trials more accessible to the average player. While a Pick-Up Group may have problems contending with much of this content, the simple truth is that if they are made more accessible to non-guilded or casual players, those players may find themselves shopping for larger, organized guilds or groups of friends.
Phasing
One of the biggest hurdles players experience in trying to group is the issue of phasing. A simple change of putting all group members in the same phase as the group leader would go a long way in allowing grouping outside of instanced content. It would allow players of all levels to group with friends or help new players or join higher-level players in harder experiences. Why this very straightforward and practical change has yet to be made is beyond me.
Drop-In, Drop-Out Content
Largely the hallmark of casual gaming, the ability to jump in or leave content quickly is almost a must have in modern gaming. And the lack of that content is hallmark that the old Dark Age of Camelot design, while great in it's time, has been left behind in modern years.
As long as ESO lacks this type of content or the support to allow it, it will have a hard time in todays Buy-to-Play marketplace.
Grouping
It takes many forms and methods, but as a whole, it's what Elder Scrolls Online does worst. Grouping with friends and taking part in content is not only non-intuitive, game mechanics often make it completely impractical or even impossible.
There is no queue system for easily taking part in content. The Looking for Group tool is not only faulty and buggy, but even in it's best implementation has very little effective use.
Grouping itself is still very buggy and unreliable, and may force a group to exit and reload an instance multiple times before the group can participate in the content.
In the end, for such a large and detailed game with the scope and capabilities the game has, it's biggest drawback is the multiplayer aspect. This needs to be resolved.
Constructive Feedback
I'm not going to begin to pretend I understand why the relatively simple and essential act of players forming a group in game is so broken. But to say that any other mechanic added to make grouping more effective MUST START WITH THIS FIX is an understatement. In a multiplayer game such as this, it's essential that every group, every time, work. It is something players take for granted in other games, but somehow, in ESO, we're reminded that when the simplest system is flawed, it can make the whole game flawed.
With that said, there ARE additional improvements which can be made.
Looking For Group
As a starters, lets revisit a system already in place .. and underused. Looking for group is a great way to find players to do all kinds of events that don't revolve around instanced content, such as dungeons.
The principle of Looking for Group is you advertise that you are interested in playing and looking for other players. This means an easy menu system to find open groups, to put yourself as looking for a group, and to set what's expected. What content is the group running (dolmens, public dungeons, Cyrodiil content, socializing, roleplay, etc)? What level is the content dedicated for? What role is the player needed (healer, tank, damage, etc)?
Another key to allowing this to function is teleporting the player to the group when they are joined, to ease the joining.
And as many have figured out, grouping for single missions in Craglorn can be a serious issue.
Queue's
For a simpler, more straightforward approach, I would recommend copying a queue system from other games. Players visit a screen and choose to queue up for the content of their choice, be it a dungeon, a delve, a dolmen or even PvP. When enough players are signed up for the event, they are transported from anywhere to that event's location.
This eases dungeon delves, trials and small-scale PvP encounters by allowing short bursts of play.
Small-Scale PvP
While the goal of Cyrodiil is an ambitious one, and it's primary focus is the capture and conquest of keeps, it leaves much to be desired for the smaller, more intense 20minute engagements common in other games.
One method of addressing this is popularly called 'Arenas'. This is in keeping with lore, and would allow small groups of players to fight in controlled fights for short periods of time. This combination allows multiple game modes (deathmatch, objective based, survival, etc), map types (different arena styles, some larger or smaller, symetrical and asymetrical), and varying numbers of players (1v1, 3v3, 4v4v4, etc).
The negative impact of Arena's are most commonly pointed out as: they will reduce the overall population of Cyrodiil, and take focus off of the primary function of PvP and Endgame in ESO; and they will put pressure on developers to adjust the freeform method of class and power design to be more suitable for arena battles, causing nerfs and affecting players in both Cyrodiil AND PVE Tamriel.
As a second idea would be 'Skirmishes'. These small-scale battles would happen at various locations throughout Cyrodiil, in real time, and they would have an impact on the overall battle of Cyrodiil. They would be limited engagements over standard objectives on the world map (farm houses, sawmills, etc), usually far away from any larger player groups. Players in queue would be 'teleported' to their alliances command wagon, and the fight would commence over that objective. The battle area would be 'roped off' to prevent the rest of the population of Cyrodiil from interfering. The fight would have a time limit of 10 minutes or so. The number of combatants would be limited on each team to balance the engagement. The winner of the fight would take control of the objective. After the time limit is reached, all combatants would be returned to where they queued from, teleported back out of the battlefield.
As it would obviously show, this form of limited small-scale PVP would also support the larger battle for Cyrodiil. The negative impact is that the 'magical' boundry area's would take the world-map players out of the action for a short period of time. As well, such small-scale fighting will still put stress on developers to adjust class balance according to goals other than what is currently in place.
In either event, the end goal is appealing to a customer base who may not partake in Cyrodiil PvP due to several legitimate reasons (dislike of zerging, detesting the horse-riding simulation feel, frustration with laggy battles which cause both friends and foes to be a confusing jumble of teleporting anomalies), but who may not be against PvP in general.
Public Dungeon Delves
The current experience of a delve has left many frustrated with the experience. While it highlights what many see are the 'golden era' of MMO design, it also shows the flaws and abuse in those mechanics. Having any player in a zone capable of seeing any other and joining in haphazard battle against dangerous enemies is a great concept and ideal. But in any scenario where more players are involved, the chances of running into those who are disruptive to others experience, either by negligence or design, are more likely.
Limiting the max population per instance of Public Dungeon Delves is an ideal way to show that, while this is a living, breathing world ... it's not really full of grind groups and overpowered characters. If a delve is setup, by design, to be best suited to only three or four players max, then set that as a soft limit (by soft limit, I mean that if a bunch of players are grouped and the group is larger than three or four, allow them to enter an instance of their own, instead of preventing them from grouping and enjoying the content together).
Obviously Cyrodiil public dungeon delves would not change from their current experience, as it is a PvP environment first and foremost.
Dolmens
As another public experience, I recommend that Delves be adjusted to the size of the group and it's power of the players involved. Other games have a mechanic where enemies aren't a particular level, but are rated to take and give damage to all players in even proportion (they hit higher level players harder, lower level players less, and take the same amount of damage from all sources), thus equalizing the experience no matter the level of the participants.
As well, introducing longer encounters, more varied experiences, and possible rare occurances (such as the introduction of world bosses who may spawn if a large number of players is at a dolmen, or environmental effects, or even sometimes drawing players into Coldharbor after a dolmen is complete, etc), may make the experience more enjoyable to all grouping players.
Dungeons, Trials and Epic Content
As with all other grouping, more background support is necessary to make the instanced Dungeons and Trials more accessible to the average player. While a Pick-Up Group may have problems contending with much of this content, the simple truth is that if they are made more accessible to non-guilded or casual players, those players may find themselves shopping for larger, organized guilds or groups of friends.
Phasing
One of the biggest hurdles players experience in trying to group is the issue of phasing. A simple change of putting all group members in the same phase as the group leader would go a long way in allowing grouping outside of instanced content. It would allow players of all levels to group with friends or help new players or join higher-level players in harder experiences. Why this very straightforward and practical change has yet to be made is beyond me.
Drop-In, Drop-Out Content
Largely the hallmark of casual gaming, the ability to jump in or leave content quickly is almost a must have in modern gaming. And the lack of that content is hallmark that the old Dark Age of Camelot design, while great in it's time, has been left behind in modern years.
As long as ESO lacks this type of content or the support to allow it, it will have a hard time in todays Buy-to-Play marketplace.
Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NA
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NA
Ruze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.
5
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Too many topics for one thread.
As for the small scale PvP (arenas, skirmishes or whatever) take a look here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157842/eso-needs-small-scale-pvp#latest
it's quite a ... fiery threadTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hmmm. Missing vet levels-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
Edited by Emma_Overload on April 19, 2015 11:10PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Emma_Eunjung What do you mean by abandoning the grouping tools?
It's people's behavior...not something ZOS can fix unless they start giving out rewards for using the toolEdited by NewBlacksmurf on April 19, 2015 11:14PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
gimarwb17_ESO✭✭✭ditto, agree. WOW and others have now got great systems for grouping, they have all seen the light. But ESO does not see the light until it hits them in the butt (purse)0 -
Kalifas✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
They should just implement auto group unless you flag it off. People in same area doing same content, groups you up automatically with priority given to roles if any available.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I don't think that's a good idea considering the amount of ppl who voice being adverse to grouping or PUGs. But something should change. I'm in support of changeEmma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
They should just implement auto group unless you flag it off. People in same area doing same content, groups you up automatically with priority given to roles if any available.
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
They should just implement auto group unless you flag it off. People in same area doing same content, groups you up automatically with priority given to roles if any available.
Thank you, this is exactly the kind of sensible suggestion I was hoping for. I don't understand why ZoS can't come up with solutions like this.
.Edited by Emma_Overload on April 19, 2015 11:28PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Emma_Eunjung What do you mean by abandoning the grouping tools?
It's people's behavior...not something ZOS can fix unless they start giving out rewards for using the tool
I mean that ZoS has not only stopped developing the LFG tool.... they've even stopped mentioning it! It's as if they want everyone to forget it exists!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Kalifas✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
I don't think that's a good idea considering the amount of ppl who voice being adverse to grouping or PUGs. But something should change. I'm in support of changeEmma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
They should just implement auto group unless you flag it off. People in same area doing same content, groups you up automatically with priority given to roles if any available.
Well you could turn you flag off which would mean the game can't auto group you. But you could still form regular parties if don't like-y the PUGS.An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Emma_Eunjung What do you mean by abandoning the grouping tools?
It's people's behavior...not something ZOS can fix unless they start giving out rewards for using the tool
I mean that ZoS has not only stopped developing the LFG tool.... they've even stopped mentioning it! It's as if they want everyone to forget it exists!
Gotcha...yeah
If you got any ideas I'll support the good ones. My post was shot down to add exp, gold and an item reward to those that use the tool and complete the dungeon/encounter.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Emma_Eunjung What do you mean by abandoning the grouping tools?
It's people's behavior...not something ZOS can fix unless they start giving out rewards for using the tool
I mean that ZoS has not only stopped developing the LFG tool.... they've even stopped mentioning it! It's as if they want everyone to forget it exists!
Gotcha...yeah
If you got any ideas I'll support the good ones. My post was shot down to add exp, gold and an item reward to those that use the tool and complete the dungeon/encounter.
I believe that gold and XP incentives could be effective if they were tied to the content. Like maybe an automated GM could spam a message to all players, "Earn 100000 XP for completing today's Veteran Undaunted Pledge with 3 random guys... click here to play NOW!"#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So I'm ROFL regarding "announcement" from the GM's.
Looking at other complaint threads about the crown store. Hhahahaha-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
There is so much that this game does great and is fun.
It's a shame that the one thing they got really, really wrong ... is also one of the most vital parts of any multiplayer game, much less an MMO that is dedicated to group content.Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.0 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
ESO is a game that's more back to the roots, at least in regards of how you group. At ESO you don't form groups like at WOW, no you join them! What might sound weird is the whole purpose of their tag and play system. We players don't need to form any groups, as everyone we meet is automatically in our group so that we can share XP, Loot and joy.
I play tank and heal and its great fun to do quests and world bosses with other players, without the hassle of first asking if we want to play together etc.
Unfortunately and this is the downside of that system, ZOS didn't stick to that in every department of their game. Instead, they released with Craglorn a zone that is all about premades, the thing they originally wanted to keep away from their game. This is the big flaw of ESO, that they started the game with tag and play, but developed it to "form and play". Same can be said about their trading system with the kiosks. Unless you are in a guild, you have no business there, its horrible.
In my opinion, ZOS should remove the premade party system, maybe even remove the group interface completely and let everyone play with everyone, just like it was once planned pre Craglorn. We do have so many open group activities that you do with passer byes, the public dungeons, anchors, smaller events, Cyrodil ... we don't need that premade content at ESO. ZOS should improve what we have and call Craglorn what it is, a failure and an outdated system.Edited by Audigy on April 20, 2015 12:54AM0 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
ESO is a game that's more back to the roots, at least in regards of how you group. At ESO you don't form groups like at WOW, no you join them! What might sound weird is the whole purpose of their tag and play system. We players don't need to form any groups, as everyone we meet is automatically in our group so that we can share XP, Loot and joy.
I play tank and heal and its great fun to do quests and world bosses with other players, without the hassle of first asking if we want to play together etc.
Unfortunately and this is the downside of that system, ZOS didn't stick to that in every department of their game. Instead, they released with Craglorn a zone that is all about premades, the thing they originally wanted to keep away from their game. This is the big flaw of ESO, that they started the game with tag and play, but developed it to "form and play". Same can be said about their trading system with the kiosks. Unless you are in a guild, you have no business there, its horrible.
In my opinion, ZOS should remove the premade party system, maybe even remove the group interface completely and let everyone play with everyone, just like it was once planned pre Craglorn. We do have so many open group activities that you do with passer byes, the public dungeons, anchors, smaller events, Cyrodil ... we don't need that premade content at ESO. ZOS should improve what we have and call Craglorn what it is, a failure and an outdated system.
I agree that ESO is attempting to harken back to older roots from the Golden Age of MMO's. Everquest, Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, etc. Public environments where players cruise through and groups are simply everyone doing the same thing.
I would also point out that this system showed many flaws due to grinding, farming and griefing tactics demonstrated in all of those games and more.
While I'm not opposed to public spaces or public groups, I do feel that the more modern system of 'drop in, drop out' gaming does a much better job of entertaining players and maintaining the integrity of play.Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.0 -
Snowstrider✭✭✭✭✭I agree op.
My biggest propblem is grouping and pretty much the feel of the world,Wish they had more stuff to do,More living world filled with events and all kinds of stuff happening.0 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »No, I agree with the OP... this IS the biggest issue in the game. ESO is the best MMO I've ever played because of the all the things they got RIGHT, but grouping is something ZoS got very, very wrong.
ZoS has basically given up on their own LFG tool and off-loaded responsibility for grouping onto private, 3rd-party organizations called "guilds". Look at any thread posted about LFG issues since April 2014, and the answers all always the same: "Just join a guild, blah blah blah." This is a terrible flaw with ESO, in my opinion.
ZoS needs to go back to the drawing board and develop an entirely NEW grouping process that is fast, easy and automated. If group content is really supposed to be the focus of ESO, and many people believe it is, then the grouping mechanism needs to work for EVERYBODY, not just the privileged few who are fortunate enough to have a healer and a tank and 9 other guys on speed dial!
.
ESO is a game that's more back to the roots, at least in regards of how you group. At ESO you don't form groups like at WOW, no you join them! What might sound weird is the whole purpose of their tag and play system. We players don't need to form any groups, as everyone we meet is automatically in our group so that we can share XP, Loot and joy.
I play tank and heal and its great fun to do quests and world bosses with other players, without the hassle of first asking if we want to play together etc.
Unfortunately and this is the downside of that system, ZOS didn't stick to that in every department of their game. Instead, they released with Craglorn a zone that is all about premades, the thing they originally wanted to keep away from their game. This is the big flaw of ESO, that they started the game with tag and play, but developed it to "form and play". Same can be said about their trading system with the kiosks. Unless you are in a guild, you have no business there, its horrible.
In my opinion, ZOS should remove the premade party system, maybe even remove the group interface completely and let everyone play with everyone, just like it was once planned pre Craglorn. We do have so many open group activities that you do with passer byes, the public dungeons, anchors, smaller events, Cyrodil ... we don't need that premade content at ESO. ZOS should improve what we have and call Craglorn what it is, a failure and an outdated system.
I agree that ESO is attempting to harken back to older roots from the Golden Age of MMO's. Everquest, Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, etc. Public environments where players cruise through and groups are simply everyone doing the same thing.
I would also point out that this system showed many flaws due to grinding, farming and griefing tactics demonstrated in all of those games and more.
While I'm not opposed to public spaces or public groups, I do feel that the more modern system of 'drop in, drop out' gaming does a much better job of entertaining players and maintaining the integrity of play.
This is sure true, I remember a guy at UO who looted our bodies after we died. It was all he did, he played a thief ... Today I laugh about it, but back then it was really annoying at times, but then again it made UO so fun for many of us, as we never knew how long we could keep our precious
The "drop in, drop out" yes, I agree with you, just that I would describe it different. To me drop in and drop out is about how I can access content. If I want to raid, then I use a tool and have a raid in a few seconds. Same with pvp, trading and all other aspects. This however doesn't work in every department of MMOs, as developers always think they must hold our hands and protect us from pugging specific types of content.
A good example for this is WOW and its raiding & pvp concept. You can drop in and drop out at meaningless content like LFR or random BG´s, but you can not play normal raids + or competitive pvp. So this concept, is usually not applicable for every piece of content (after the opinion of Devs and also many gamers) and because of this, I feel that having only the old systems is better, as there everyone can play everything and not like today in many MMO´s only a small piece of the game, as then its back to form a premade to play the more important stuff.0 -
ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »
Public Dungeon Delves
...
Limiting the max population per instance of Public Dungeon Delves is an ideal way to show that, while this is a living, breathing world ... it's not really full of grind groups and overpowered characters. If a delve is setup, by design, to be best suited to only three or four players max, then set that as a soft limit (by soft limit, I mean that if a bunch of players are grouped and the group is larger than three or four, allow them to enter an instance of their own, instead of preventing them from grouping and enjoying the content together).
...
Agree with this part of the OP
But ALSO some of the quest instances as well should have a limit.
There is NO fun having 20+ players mass murdering everything. The NPC are too easy and the respawn too slowly to have sooo many players in the instance.
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