? lagged intentional

G0ku

Just a few minutes ago (EU - Chillrend) I experienced the following: yellows breached inner roeback and the game started to show a 999+ ping. No skills were going off. Blues first repaired their outer wall, then their inner wall. As soon as the inner wall was repaired skills started to work again and blues cleaned house.

I am not the tinfoiled hat guy, but is there a chance that some player know a way to cause this lag intentional ? I mean, as soon as blues could be safe that roebeck is secured the lag stopped. Kinda weird...

BossTuggles

Welcome to pvp in ESO. This has been going on for the past month+ in NA servers. This so called "zenimax server issue" ie people willingly messing up the stability of the server to win. It sucks man I know but most likely nothing will be done about it.

G0ku

We were 3 men chasing the guys behind the scroll. In reach of the blues transporting the scroll we could not use any skill:

- no big fights were going on at keeps
- we were in the middle of nowhere
- we fought 3v2

As soon as the scroll was farther away all went smooth again. Something here is fishy...

SoulScream

Yeah I had to take a break from pvp because of this and some other things. I find it fun to pvp off peak hours. Evening and weekends, forget it!

Teargrants

Lag makes ppl port around like DBZ...
Your name is Goku...

I sense a connection.

Bane_of_Fringe

G0ku wrote: »

We were 3 men chasing the guys behind the scroll. In reach of the blues transporting the scroll we could not use any skill:

- no big fights were going on at keeps
- we were in the middle of nowhere
- we fought 3v2

As soon as the scroll was farther away all went smooth again. Something here is fishy...

Was somebody doing something on the other side of the map? In my experience, having some large groups of players clash can cause lag for everybody, including people in PvE.

Daysie

After the walls were repaired the enemies were trapped inside. Skills probably eventually went off and damage caught up, causing people to die. When they died that meant less people alive to spam skills/ultis which would cut down on the lag

G0ku

Daysie wrote: »

After the walls were repaired the enemies were trapped inside. Skills probably eventually went off and damage caught up, causing people to die. When they died that meant less people alive to spam skills/ultis which would cut down on the lag

Yea could be, but when it´s always the same player names on blue side when things like this happens it starts to feel weird. The whole day was full of big fights like that and it a situation like this did not occur.

There is a group of blues on this map doing all kind of abusive stuff like getting a scroll, locking themselves in a hut, staying in there and spamming skills, so anyone who enters gets lag/loading screen and is easy prey. Needless to say people fall for that as many people together become idiots. There are more methods of them to farm AP and none of them is a thing you would call fair and square, it´s all fishy, borderline abusive tactics which add nothing to game play but all to frustration of casual pvp´ers.

So when you observe a group performing these tactics and then things like the lag thing happens always in reach of this group you gonna start to get some paranoic feeling which led to this thread.

I know this won´t change and I don´t have the feeling ZOS will do sth about it, I just wanted to check the forums if I am starting to freak out or if there really is such an exploit.

I am not taking pvp too serious but if you put effort in sieging a keep and then the game turns out like this it gets to you. Maybe its time for me to take a break off pvp...

Dositheus

OK, lets stop for a minute and do a little discussing of various causes for "Lag" or latency and the viability of players to use it etc. I'm tired of hearing lots of tin foil hat garbage from folks who have no clue about basic networking or computers in general... and when they experience "Lag" they are assuming it must be the malicious actions of an opponent who seemingly benefited from it. Playing an EP on Thornblade, I got to hear this all the time. "Those damn blues are all lagging us out" or Yellows.. or whatever. And then read the exact same thing on the forums from the blues and yellows that people were saying were lagging us out on purpose. So... let's do a little defining.

Lag in the most layman's perspective generally refers to anytime that the movement of the little jumping men on thier screen slow or teleport or stop moving all together. Or a general sluggishness to actions. This can be caused by a few factors: A. the local (said players computer) processing power and the ability to provide stable FPS (Frames Per Second) given all the graphic factors happening. or B. Actual Network lag or latency issues.

Problem A) can be often mitigated by ensuring you turn off those happy bright flashy lights and bangs and whatnot in your settings. It may not be pretty, but it makes the game run in a more stable state. When people are spamming huge aoe shiny light producing blobs of wonderfulness... unless you're running a Porche of a machine.. you'll probably see some significant drop in FPS. Anyone experiencing issues, should start with what they can do on their own end to relieve stress on their machine when engaging in actual big fights etc.

Problem B. is a bit more interesting. The network latency issue can be caused by multiple factors.. such as 1. The Server's stability under load (which they obviously have a lot of issue with). 2. Sheer volume of information being sent to your computer via the wire, and once again the forementioned problem with your computers ability to handle it. 3. Where you live.

Everyone is in agreement that when people jam buttons and produce tons of shiny lights in a small area, the game code and the servers themself are unable to run it in an acceptable manner. Big Z is apparently trying to mitigate this by encouraging players to not group up in one area as much. Regardless, when this sort of lag happens... everyone is feeling it. Let that sink in a moment... the server that everyone is connecting to... is chugging. That means you AND that jerk with a different coloured faction are both experiencing lag. If you have a crappy GPU or a less than ideal computer in the first place, you have even more issues once stuff tries to catch up. Once again, turn down your ***.

Nothing can be done about sub cause 2 really, nor 3.

So... with the above information, there IS the very viable possiblity of non-server side exploiters. People frozen in place, who when seem to teleport or move quickly and then insanely burst you down with 6 attacks in 1 second? That might be a less than scrupulous player who is abusing something known as a "Lag Switch." I'll let folks who want to learn more google that and read up. Suffice to say it abuses client to server communications to the advantage of the player, allowing them to line up commands to be executed when the server and client catch up in communication. Kind of a turd move that people have been doing in fps games for years. It is not what folks whine about when they see 999+ latency on their screen though. It is possibly what happened when you get 1 shot by 4 wrecking blows in the span of 1 second when some appears out of no where on your screen and you are insta gibbed.

For those upset with lag, I can fully understand. I am currently playing the game via a 2mb adsl line out of the Middle East, over 70 year old telephone lines. If I'm seeing 400 latency, it's an ok day for me. 600 is still quasi acceptable, 700+ I just shrug and go get a beer.

Observant

In an MMO, no person or group can lag the server without using third party software or multiple PC's to coordinate an attack.

This is all ZOS' coding/hardware issues, quit taking it out on your fellow players.

Alcast

Always when i see a zerggrp start spamming Stars at the same time = lag inc

Kupoking

you mean like this?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=s4qU3FSwPlo&feature=youtu.be

G0ku

Observant wrote: »

In an MMO, no person or group can lag the server without using third party software or multiple PC's to coordinate an attack.

This is all ZOS' coding/hardware issues, quit taking it out on your fellow players.

Sure it´s a coding issue, which doesn´t exclude that some players fount out how to use a coding issue for their advantage. Again I do not accuse anybody, I just wanted to find out if there is an already (at least to some few) known exploit causing this.

I´m not a regular pvp´er, so I seek the forums if I become suspicious. Did the same with the purge / elemental wall bug when this was a thing.

Dositheus

G0ku wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

In an MMO, no person or group can lag the server without using third party software or multiple PC's to coordinate an attack.

This is all ZOS' coding/hardware issues, quit taking it out on your fellow players.

Sure it´s a coding issue, which doesn´t exclude that some players fount out how to use a coding issue for their advantage. Again I do not accuse anybody, I just wanted to find out if there is an already (at least to some few) known exploit causing this.

I´m not a regular pvp´er, so I seek the forums if I become suspicious. Did the same with the purge / elemental wall bug when this was a thing.

*facepalm*

I'm hoping you at least perused my above little blurb on lag. Suffice to say, YES players have found things they can do that will lag the server. When they lag the server though, they also lag themselves. The ONLY time that I can see this being beneficial to themselves? If they are standing on a flag and lag the server a few moments to ensure they get control of the flag by being marked as standing on it while everyone is too lagged to actually damage anyone. If you find yourself "lagging" more than the people you are fighting, turn down all of your graphics and ***... you may well find a slight improvement. Anything they do server side is shared between you, you have a responsibility for what YOU can control though, which is how much your machine chugs and hangs on graphics it tries to process.

ToRelax

Dositheus wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

In an MMO, no person or group can lag the server without using third party software or multiple PC's to coordinate an attack.

This is all ZOS' coding/hardware issues, quit taking it out on your fellow players.

Sure it´s a coding issue, which doesn´t exclude that some players fount out how to use a coding issue for their advantage. Again I do not accuse anybody, I just wanted to find out if there is an already (at least to some few) known exploit causing this.

I´m not a regular pvp´er, so I seek the forums if I become suspicious. Did the same with the purge / elemental wall bug when this was a thing.

*facepalm*

I'm hoping you at least perused my above little blurb on lag. Suffice to say, YES players have found things they can do that will lag the server. When they lag the server though, they also lag themselves. The ONLY time that I can see this being beneficial to themselves? If they are standing on a flag and lag the server a few moments to ensure they get control of the flag by being marked as standing on it while everyone is too lagged to actually damage anyone. If you find yourself "lagging" more than the people you are fighting, turn down all of your graphics and ***... you may well find a slight improvement. Anything they do server side is shared between you, you have a responsibility for what YOU can control though, which is how much your machine chugs and hangs on graphics it tries to process.

There are a lot of things you can accomplish easier with lag, repairing walls definitely being on of them.

Nivzruo_ESO

Zo$ only responds to money, so show them how unhappy you are like the rest of us are doing and unsub. I still play from time to time but they've gotten all the money their going to get outta me.

The_Death_Princess

Observant wrote: »

In an MMO, no person or group can lag the server without using third party software or multiple PC's to coordinate an attack.

This is all ZOS' coding/hardware issues, quit taking it out on your fellow players.

Your not really observant, Observant. It is 3rd party stuff that starts this, then the games code cant counter it. You should know this its your fellow factioners that started this, and since they shut down thorn, they are alting on other servers now. But maybe you are more observant than your letting on.....

The_Death_Princess

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163047/thornblade-na-ad-join-the-resistance/p2

post 61 will give you some info as to potential issue with your AD

G0ku

Dositheus wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

In an MMO, no person or group can lag the server without using third party software or multiple PC's to coordinate an attack.

This is all ZOS' coding/hardware issues, quit taking it out on your fellow players.

Sure it´s a coding issue, which doesn´t exclude that some players fount out how to use a coding issue for their advantage. Again I do not accuse anybody, I just wanted to find out if there is an already (at least to some few) known exploit causing this.

I´m not a regular pvp´er, so I seek the forums if I become suspicious. Did the same with the purge / elemental wall bug when this was a thing.

*facepalm*

I'm hoping you at least perused my above little blurb on lag. Suffice to say, YES players have found things they can do that will lag the server. When they lag the server though, they also lag themselves. The ONLY time that I can see this being beneficial to themselves? If they are standing on a flag and lag the server a few moments to ensure they get control of the flag by being marked as standing on it while everyone is too lagged to actually damage anyone. If you find yourself "lagging" more than the people you are fighting, turn down all of your graphics and ***... you may well find a slight improvement. Anything they do server side is shared between you, you have a responsibility for what YOU can control though, which is how much your machine chugs and hangs on graphics it tries to process.

well they managed to repair their whole keep while the lag still was going on - wouldn´t you call that beneficial for them? anyway, I see I put my fingers on something which is already boiling somewhere else. as I am not interested in forum pvp like you seem to be I am out of this thread now

skarvika

G0ku wrote: »

Just a few minutes ago (EU - Chillrend) I experienced the following: yellows breached inner roeback and the game started to show a 999+ ping. No skills were going off. Blues first repaired their outer wall, then their inner wall. As soon as the inner wall was repaired skills started to work again and blues cleaned house.

I am not the tinfoiled hat guy, but is there a chance that some player know a way to cause this lag intentional ? I mean, as soon as blues could be safe that roebeck is secured the lag stopped. Kinda weird...

Not being in AD in a nutshell.
I'll just repost this here because it's appropriate and it's all I have to say on the matter.

Seems it only happens when we run into certain handfuls of AD. This has never happened when fighting EP.
Everything will be fine and dandy; of course we'll have some regular crappy server lag during battle and then...everything stops for a couple seconds. My character is frozen in place. My skills won't activate. 3-4 seconds later, turns out I'm dead, and I see this.

Every. Single. Time. No joke! Literally every time!
So I try to stick to fighting EP if I have a choice. Sure, I might get steamrolled by a zerg or knocked off my horse by gankers and that's never much fun, but at least if I die, I'll be able to see it happen and know that they didn't need to break the game to do it.
So in conclusion, yes, I think it's very fair to say we can blame one specific faction for lagsploiting. Sure, they don't cause all of the lag, the servers need a massive upgrade obviously, but the kind of lag that makes the game unplayable? Yeah, that's all AD.

ArcVelarian

Essentially what these people are doing is a denial of service attack. Just a while ago a group that was doing this was just standing there, but they still sent the area ping upwards of 1600ms, preventing anyone from using abilities or setting up siege engines.

ZOS just wants to stick their heads in the sand on this one, regardless of how big a problem it is. Heck it wouldn't surprise me if they shut this thread down just to stop any discussion of the problem.

ArcVelarian

Dositheus wrote: »

OK, lets stop for a minute and do a little discussing of various causes for "Lag" or latency and the viability of players to use it etc. I'm tired of hearing lots of tin foil hat garbage from folks who have no clue about basic networking or computers in general... and when they experience "Lag" they are assuming it must be the malicious actions of an opponent who seemingly benefited from it. Playing an EP on Thornblade, I got to hear this all the time. "Those damn blues are all lagging us out" or Yellows.. or whatever. And then read the exact same thing on the forums from the blues and yellows that people were saying were lagging us out on purpose. So... let's do a little defining...-

What people are referring to, in this case, is latency NOT fps. When you have a not so great machine and there is 100 players on-screen pounding on each other with flashy sparkly attacks, yeah your fps is gonna nose dive, not your ping. When you have 20 players running around fighting another 20 players, and you have a fps of 60 but a latency of 5000 whenever you're within 30 in-game meters of the first grp? Yeah, that's fishy; especially when the first group could literally be standing there doing nothing and still send the local ping sky-rocketing.

Valnas

can any of you lag scholars point me to the evidence of 3rd party lagplacations? like actual details, not some 40 post thread you love.

Tintinabula

yea. On Chillrend NA tonight was standing on Allessia while all three factions were descending upon Roe and we felt it all the way over in another keep. Game dont like 3 factions together

rfennell_ESO

Valnas wrote: »

can any of you lag scholars point me to the evidence of 3rd party lagplacations? like actual details, not some 40 post thread you love.

It's not like they are going to post a video of them using it haha.

But when you are on a server that regularly sees large fights for months with no serious lag and then certain guilds show up to plague your server and with them comes lag that only seems to happen when they need it (ie defending an emp keep).. well someone sure is intentionally causing Havok on the servers for their own gain.

The fact they can turn it on and off... the fact that it's always certain guilds doing it. The fact that the zerg of reds on my server are easy pickings even outnumbered until the lag switch is thrown and the same names that come with the lagsploitation show up is not a coincidence.

Dositheus

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Dositheus wrote: »

OK, lets stop for a minute and do a little discussing of various causes for "Lag" or latency and the viability of players to use it etc. I'm tired of hearing lots of tin foil hat garbage from folks who have no clue about basic networking or computers in general... and when they experience "Lag" they are assuming it must be the malicious actions of an opponent who seemingly benefited from it. Playing an EP on Thornblade, I got to hear this all the time. "Those damn blues are all lagging us out" or Yellows.. or whatever. And then read the exact same thing on the forums from the blues and yellows that people were saying were lagging us out on purpose. So... let's do a little defining...-

What people are referring to, in this case, is latency NOT fps. When you have a not so great machine and there is 100 players on-screen pounding on each other with flashy sparkly attacks, yeah your fps is gonna nose dive, not your ping. When you have 20 players running around fighting another 20 players, and you have a fps of 60 but a latency of 5000 whenever you're within 30 in-game meters of the first grp? Yeah, that's fishy; especially when the first group could literally be standing there doing nothing and still send the local ping sky-rocketing.

Yes, there is a difference between Lag/Latency and FPS loss, my point is that a number of people confuse this. If people whine about latency, I want them to also make sure they're checking their machines. I've been in groups with a number of people upset about the lag... and then you ask them what their fps is... and they say it's hovering 9 to 15 fps. At which point... yes, they are experiencing the lag everyone else is, but they are also trying to run the game on a PoS machine with all the graphics turned up.

Now, bringing up the Denial of Service attack idea. Certainly, this is a possible attack vector, but screwing up the ability of the server to respond to client side requests... affects all clients. It's a denial of service... to everyone. Now, people jumping around, rolling, trying to turn their characters.. and basically send more than 1 simple input to the system will be more effected.. since they are trying to do more than one thing.

Some people have mentioned that you can still repair a wall with the lag. OK, perhaps if you are set up right infront of the wall when it starts lagging, and you just jam that repair button I can see that. Because you arn't trying to move, adjust view, cast any abilities, or anything else. If 1 out of 10 packets you send to the server gets accepted (1 out of 10 for every person mind you) and all you are sending are 10 requests for a wall repair, then yes. You might get some repairs off. Frankly I have enough trouble getting the stupid system to let me repair walls when there is no lag, but that is a different issue.

What I am tired of is people assuming anytime they lag, that it is malicious intent of the other people they are fighting. Are there perhaps a few idiots who want to lag themselves out and everyone else along with them? Sure, I suppose so. When you see a group running around tight, aoeing, that is not the case. They're looking to zerg you and get some AP from your falling corpse. Lagging the server is slowing their zerg too, and thus slowing their ap gain. It's not "This faction" or "That faction" that does it. ALL three factions have guilds who run large groups, and use aoe skills. And the servers (as they've admitted) can't handle this.

There

The_Death_Princess wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

In an MMO, no person or group can lag the server without using third party software or multiple PC's to coordinate an attack.

This is all ZOS' coding/hardware issues, quit taking it out on your fellow players.

Your not really observant, Observant. It is 3rd party stuff that starts this, then the games code cant counter it. You should know this its your fellow factioners that started this, and since they shut down thorn, they are alting on other servers now. But maybe you are more observant than your letting on.....

Alllllright, let us begin with "you're". Sorry, it is a pet peeve. Now, onto the meat of the post. You're making a statement that there is 3rd party software that can "lag the system" ie, do a denial of service attack. Well, yes. There have been programs able to accomplish this feat since not long after the dawn of computing. At one point, packets too large. At other points malformed packets (thanks Fyodor for that rather nifty program), and at other times sheer volume attacks with ICMP traffic. All of these accomplish... 1 thing. Denial of Service... for EVERYONE.

A nice thing to note on 3rd party Software... you can lag yourself out really nicely too by installing a bunch of Addons. You know, all those fun ones sending traffic back and forth between your machine and the server? Guess what? That also counts toward the limited information you can have go back and forth between your machine and the server. If you're having trouble being lagged out: #1) turn down your graphics. #2) Uninstall as many Addons as you can live without. #3) Understand that if it isn't the above two chugging your system, and it is indeed a connectivity issue with the server.. that everyone else is experiencing it too.

Zargorius

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

you mean like this?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=s4qU3FSwPlo&feature=youtu.be

2 FPS dude? Get e new comp or tone down those graphics.

Tripwyr

I see Thornblade's Anonymous EP group's strategy is spreading to EU! Quick, everybody spam Meteor so we can repair the walls!

G0ku

Well regarding my machine, I had 87 fps while skills were not possible...

I don´t think we should put the blame on factions, but on certain players/guilds. It always comes down to some narrow-minded people, in every game. Sad but true, I just will try to avoid this group from now on and enjoy my pvp far away from them.

Can´t even imagine how it feels if you´re really engaged in pvp and face such group on your server...

skarvika

G0ku wrote: »

certain players/guilds

We Respect Xploiters

Kas

i cannot rule it out, but it's often due to an absurdly large battle somewhere else (near?) on the map.
it's easy to think enemies are intentinally casuing the lag. but at the end of the day, few actually care for the castle and all people want is AP. you don't really get AP by dragging fights through lag, so I don't htink it's actually intentional