Crafting should give leveling exp too

Rev Rielle

I personally think crafting and adventuring should be kept separate as much as possible, especially in relation to experience. In my opinion the game that has achieved this schism successfully is Everquest 2.

Sausage

Thieving too.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Endurance wrote: »

Crafting should give leveling exp as well as crafting exp.. that way people can level up doing crafting instead of just gaining exp on the crafting skill

No it shouldn't and I'm glad it doesn't.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I agree with the core concept... but man. I outleveled 1-50 zones CRAZY fast. I want ways to level slower, not more quickly.

Turbine added a Tortoise Stone to the in-game Store for just that purpose in LoTRO.

Was a very hot seller for a long time.

All The Best

Isn't that the place we're trying to Not go?

Boost xp so you can sell xp blockers.
Cheesy holiday games and gimmicks to get people to spend money
Store icons in the middle of your UI
Mithril coin icons over every npcs head so you can "buy" more dailies
More Mithril coin icons on your quest tracker so you can zip to the turn in
Buy everything you need to level your Legendaries in their store

LOTRO is no longer an example of anything except what we Don't want in this game.

IMO the LOTRO store model is about the best I have seen.

You can earn TP in-game just by completing deeds and key quests, so you can "buy" things from the Store with a currency you earned in-game. It is theoretically possible to unlock everything you need without spending a single $.

Yes you can buy most things via the Store, but I have most things I need and I think since the introduction of the Store I have spend maybe $10-15 and that was to buy more storage space - I'm a major hoarder.

All The Best

I used to respect your opinion. If you really think this is good for TESO you may have lost me....but not for long

dodgehopper_ESO

I don't agree that crafters should get regular experience, but I do think that a max level crafter (Ie you've hit 50 in your chosen profession) should do max level writs and break down max level resources. The changes they made to crafting messed with a lot of crafting characters people were playing. Now we have the choice of outlevelling pre-vet pvp or just grinding up to veteran 14 so we can craft properly again. That hardly seems fair.

Defilted

In Skyrim crafting gave XP. The issue I had there was that I would level up, but my gear was not as good as I was leveling while crafting. Yes I could make some stuff , but what I could make compared to the enemies I was now facing because of my advanced level made the game more difficult and in some instances the game difficulty had to be adjusted down to get passed something. If I waiting to craft later in the game when I was more of an advanced level it was not such a big issue.

I do not know if the same thing would happen here in ESOTU, but it seems that there would be some issues with out leveling content more easily than you can do it now. I was personally happy to see that crafting was separate from leveling XP. IMO getting XP fro crafting would be a mistake.

turbonights

sadownik wrote: »

turbonights wrote: »

Hm...gold used to buy mats used to level crafts.
Sites offering to sell you about 100k gold for 15-20 usd.

Well...it'd certainly be really easy for some people to powerlevel.

That is really strange argument since you get plenty of cooking material.

Yes, by playing the game. However, if you leveled via crafting anyone could just buy gold, buy materials, and continue to level. 100k gold gets you a ton of materials that would take, at the very least, days worth of actually playing and doing your craft regularly to get the same amount of materials (let alone I'd imagine the idea is higher level crafts get you more xp).

Again, the idea is that you end up offering an avenue for gold to allow leveling. Once this happens than gold sellers can start selling ways to level as well.

The_Sadist

While it may work for GW2 I don't feel such a system would be.. fitting for ESO, so I'm inclined to disagree. As it stands leveling is already relatively easy, you out level zones simply via questing as it stands.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I used to respect your opinion. If you really think this is good for TESO you may have lost me....but not for long

I'm not sure it is good for TESO.

I was just defending the Store model in LOTRO as the best I have experienced.

In my LOTRO Kin there is a group of players who all have low-level Alts, all of them have the XP Disabler and they only play when they can all play together and progress equally. IIRC they are currently at about level 45. When they get to a new zone they take off the XP Disabler and level normally until that have hit the top level for that zone, then they put on the XP Disabler and continue in that zone until they have completed all the quests, all the instances and all the Deeds. Only then do they move on to the next zone and take off the XP disabler and start again.

The truth is that the moment new end-game content is added ESO will rejig the XP curve so people get to end-game quicker. Every major MMORPG in existence does that - because they want (need) players to need to spend money on that new end-game content to recoup their production costs. Its that simple.

We all know for a fact they are going to do it at some point, so why not just accept that fact and push for an XP Disabler so people can level through content without out-levelling that content. Some people will just not buy the XP disabler, but many will.

The Store is here to stay. We need to accept that and then try and shape what the Store offer so it is not too damaging to the game.

All The Best

Merlin13KAGL

It makes sense the way it is now. It gives Crafting XP's (IP's) in order to level the skill line.

It has its own progression method, just like certain other skill lines do.

Once you hit max level, I would like to see a minor gold bonus in place of the IP's for writs, or the ability to bank them and trade them in for racial stones or mats.

As far as actual XP's though, they are acquired through writs. Beyond that, the benefit is the skill, the gear, and the salable items you create.

It's comparable to saying "Selling in Guild Stores should give you XP's"

It's not necessary.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I used to respect your opinion. If you really think this is good for TESO you may have lost me....but not for long

I'm not sure it is good for TESO.

I was just defending the Store model in LOTRO as the best I have experienced.

In my LOTRO Kin there is a group of players who all have low-level Alts, all of them have the XP Disabler and they only play when they can all play together and progress equally. IIRC they are currently at about level 45. When they get to a new zone they take off the XP Disabler and level normally until that have hit the top level for that zone, then they put on the XP Disabler and continue in that zone until they have completed all the quests, all the instances and all the Deeds. Only then do they move on to the next zone and take off the XP disabler and start again.

The truth is that the moment new end-game content is added ESO will rejig the XP curve so people get to end-game quicker. Every major MMORPG in existence does that - because they want (need) players to need to spend money on that new end-game content to recoup their production costs. Its that simple.

We all know for a fact they are going to do it at some point, so why not just accept that fact and push for an XP Disabler so people can level through content without out-levelling that content. Some people will just not buy the XP disabler, but many will.

The Store is here to stay. We need to accept that and then try and shape what the Store offer so it is not too damaging to the game.

All The Best

I knew I had to be wrong.

AlnilamE

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I don't agree that crafters should get regular experience, but I do think that a max level crafter (Ie you've hit 50 in your chosen profession) should do max level writs and break down max level resources. The changes they made to crafting messed with a lot of crafting characters people were playing. Now we have the choice of outlevelling pre-vet pvp or just grinding up to veteran 14 so we can craft properly again. That hardly seems fair.

What are you talking about?

Merlin13KAGL

AlnilamE wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I don't agree that crafters should get regular experience, but I do think that a max level crafter (Ie you've hit 50 in your chosen profession) should do max level writs and break down max level resources. The changes they made to crafting messed with a lot of crafting characters people were playing. Now we have the choice of outlevelling pre-vet pvp or just grinding up to veteran 14 so we can craft properly again. That hardly seems fair.

What are you talking about?

@AlnilamE , I think dodge might be referring to the fact that your decon chances (as far as mat return, anyway) are partially based on your character level, not just your crafting skill level and passives.

I've a L42 that's crafting maxed, but will occasionally get the 'Can't recover all the mats from this item" message when breaking down Vet level stuff.

AlnilamE

That's always been like that, though. They just later added a message to let you know, but the mechanic wasn't changed.

When I first started playing, a friend who was about 20 levels above me would send me items to deconstruct, and I hardly ever got any ingots/cloth/wood out of them, just the trait/racial stones.

Visemere

no no no and no.

terrible idea.

take up blacksmithing... deconstruct an item, now tell me what gains you get, convert that to XP and understand how that could be abused by a high level alt sending items to you to deconstruct for free xp..

Sallington

Two things would make me very happy:

1) Crafting giving leveling experience

2) Crafting skill tree's being much, much more in depth

It would be cool to need to dedicate your crafter to a crafting profession or two to make the best gear, at the sacrifice of combat ability. A master blacksmith might need to dedicate 100-150 skill points to make the very best gear.

I guess I've just been hoping for the next SWG-esque system of crafting really. Dedicated architects, tailors, weaponsmiths, etc.

Merlin13KAGL

AlnilamE wrote: »

That's always been like that, though. They just later added a message to let you know, but the mechanic wasn't changed.

When I first started playing, a friend who was about 20 levels above me would send me items to deconstruct, and I hardly ever got any ingots/cloth/wood out of them, just the trait/racial stones.

Agreed, but it is a bit ass backwards that you have the skill to make the high level gear (regardless of your character level), yet you somehow do not have the skill to take it apart again?

Bacon

Personally I think the way it is now is better than the way it was in the old Elder Scrolls games. In the old games creature strength was based upon your level. If you level up by crafting too much rather than questing/fighting you would be weaker than your enemy's. With ESO, Areas have a set difficulty. If you gained Exp while crafting you would quickly out level the areas you have available quests in (resulting in gaining less exp from creatures/quests) or having your fighting skills too low for areas at your current level. Either way gaining exp through crafting creates an imbalance for the crafter.

I like having crafting exp separate from leveling (questing/fighting) exp but it would be nice if crafting skills had different skill points as well. I like having my character be a crafter but I don't want all of my skill points to go into crafting because it would take away from the strength/power/usefulness of my character. I don't have a ton of time to play so I only have 1 character and don't want to make an Alt just for crafting. Having a separate pool of skill points for crafting would allow people to have a character who is skilled at questing as well as crafting rather than having to choose a path or make Alts.

The way it works now is definitely better than the alternative but I think there is still some room for improvement. Questing and crafting are separate skills and should be treated as such

Sallington

Bacon wrote: »

Personally I think the way it is now is better than the way it was in the old Elder Scrolls games. In the old games creature strength was based upon your level. If you level up by crafting too much rather than questing/fighting you would be weaker than your enemy's. With ESO, Areas have a set difficulty. If you gained Exp while crafting you would quickly out level the areas you have available quests in (resulting in gaining less exp from creatures/quests) or having your fighting skills too low for areas at your current level. Either way gaining exp through crafting creates an imbalance for the crafter.

I like having crafting exp separate from leveling (questing/fighting) exp but it would be nice if crafting skills had different skill points as well. I like having my character be a crafter but I don't want all of my skill points to go into crafting because it would take away from the strength/power/usefulness of my character. I don't have a ton of time to play so I only have 1 character and don't want to make an Alt just for crafting. Having a separate pool of skill points for crafting would allow people to have a character who is skilled at questing as well as crafting rather than having to choose a path or make Alts.

The way it works now is definitely better than the alternative but I think there is still some room for improvement. Questing and crafting are separate skills and should be treated as such

By "old games" do you mean Oblivion and Skyrim? They were both hand-holdy (especially Skyrim), and this is another reason why Morrowind is far better than either of them.

FelixTheCatt

I'd settle for being able to skip a daily writ. Yes , I know we can do this already. I'm talking skip one and maybe not get the exact same one the next day. I have one for provisioning that I don't have a recipe for yet. I abandoned it thinking i'd get a different one the next day. Nope , same one. Small complaint as I agree with the earlier comments made that the writ rewards are pretty underwhelming anyways. Still it is something that would be an easy fix i'd think.

Bacon

Yes, I did mean Oblivion and Skyrim. Couldn't agree more that they were both "hand-holdy" but I think part of the reason they did that (other than to make it more appealing to the more casual RPGers or player who don't want a challenge) was so that players who focused of crafting early on were not punished for it by fighting enemies who where much stronger than them.

Having crafting exp separate from leveling exp solves that problem, but it causes another problem.Since you don't gain exp/level up crafting, you don't get the extra skill points to invest in the crafting tree as you increase your crafting skills. You can make that up completing quests and collecting skyshards as you go but it makes it hard to focus on crafting right out of the gate.

One of the draws for this game was the idea that you could "play how you want" and I think having a separate skill point pool for crafting skills would allow people to just focus on crafting if that is their wish.

I always saved all of my crafting stuff up and did a huge crafting session with everything I had gathered every 50 play hours or so but limited "bank" slots makes that harder and I understand completely why they don't want every player collecting thousands of items (can't imagine how bad the lag would be). This does make crafting as you go more of a necessity. The imbalance between the player/guild economy vs. the NPC economy already makes crafting much less profitable and more time consuming early on but that's a topic of its own.

Chuggernaut

I agree 100% on this. I was shocked you got no leveling xp for crafting, and submitted it as a bug in beta. You get xp for completing writs, why not some for crafting gear. It could scale with your skill, so maybe 50 xp per full buff enchantment item at level 50, and something less for partial buff equipment.

As for the bot argument, who really cares? The botters aren't pvpers, they are gold sellers, so even if they make it to max champion points, who would it hurt?

Xendyn

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

I'd settle for being able to skip a daily writ. Yes , I know we can do this already. I'm talking skip one and maybe not get the exact same one the next day. I have one for provisioning that I don't have a recipe for yet. I abandoned it thinking i'd get a different one the next day. Nope , same one. Small complaint as I agree with the earlier comments made that the writ rewards are pretty underwhelming anyways. Still it is something that would be an easy fix i'd think.

Slight derail here, but you can get a friend or guildie that Does have that recipe to make you a few until you find it.
Provisioning and Alchemy ones just have to be crafted, not necessary for it to be crafted by You.
Also, some guild kiosks may have some of the writ food for sale.

Gidorick

How about crafting giving CP XP only and make crafting more of an end game persuit?

Merlin13KAGL

Xendyn wrote: »

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

I'd settle for being able to skip a daily writ. Yes , I know we can do this already. I'm talking skip one and maybe not get the exact same one the next day. I have one for provisioning that I don't have a recipe for yet. I abandoned it thinking i'd get a different one the next day. Nope , same one. Small complaint as I agree with the earlier comments made that the writ rewards are pretty underwhelming anyways. Still it is something that would be an easy fix i'd think.

Slight derail here, but you can get a friend or guildie that Does have that recipe to make you a few until you find it.
Provisioning and Alchemy ones just have to be crafted, not necessary for it to be crafted by You.
Also, some guild kiosks may have some of the writ food for sale.

Good call.

To expand on that, why can't you, at max level, reverse engineer a recipe? Seems reasonable it you're a master chef/brewer that you could take someone's creation, 'decon' it, and figure out how to make the recipe for yourself.

*Note: this would be to make the product, not to transcribe recipes for sale. Ambrosia would obviously be excluded from this, of course.

Merkabeh

I personally like this idea...

Leveling through crafting would reward skill points to be used in the crafting skill lines; combined with some light exploration (for skyshards) seems like a viable way to create a pure crafting character (which right now can't really be done well).

Only thing I think would need to do is to make it level slightly slower then questing or mob grinding; so it is isn't effective unless you really want to be a pure crafter to just spam crafting to level.

then would add bonus experience to players that explore, quest, grind and craft.

I like it...which probably means it would never make it in this game. Other things I like:
1. Text chat on console.
2. Characters joining guilds, not players, in a game with a center piece of faction warfare.
3. Character names being displayed.

So yeah, this will never get support by ZOS because it makes sense to me...lol

nastuug

Gidorick wrote: »

How about crafting giving CP XP only and make crafting more of an end game persuit?

@Gidorick It would certainly give crafting a reason to exist, that's for sure.

AlnilamE

Gidorick wrote: »

How about crafting giving CP XP only and make crafting more of an end game persuit?

Considering how many provisioning mats I have stocked up, I'd probably get about 100 CP and make a ton of gold vendoring the food before I even have to consider buying more mats...

FelixTheCatt

Xendyn wrote: »

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

I'd settle for being able to skip a daily writ. Yes , I know we can do this already. I'm talking skip one and maybe not get the exact same one the next day. I have one for provisioning that I don't have a recipe for yet. I abandoned it thinking i'd get a different one the next day. Nope , same one. Small complaint as I agree with the earlier comments made that the writ rewards are pretty underwhelming anyways. Still it is something that would be an easy fix i'd think.

Slight derail here, but you can get a friend or guildie that Does have that recipe to make you a few until you find it.
Provisioning and Alchemy ones just have to be crafted, not necessary for it to be crafted by You.
Also, some guild kiosks may have some of the writ food for sale.

Awesome , this was something I wasn't aware of before now. I assumed these things were like the regular crafted writs that you're required to make yourself. Thank you for info.

Pman85

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I personally think crafting and adventuring should be kept separate as much as possible, especially in relation to experience. In my opinion the game that has achieved this schism successfully is Everquest 2.