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The Crown Store is nice, but Give us something to spend GOLD on too!
charlmgn
✭✭✭
I know I see people complain about the cost of bank and bag space, or training mounts, or even buying mounts. The thing is, once you have those, what else is there? Sure, we can buy from each other in zone, or in the guild stores or traders, but that just shifts the gold around. And if we're consistent traders, any gold we spend is most likely going to end up back in our bag at one point or another anyway.
Don't get me wrong. I was glad to see the Crown Store open, and being a long-term player (since shortly after launch), I accumulated a sizable number of Crowns during the changeover. Add that to my 90-day subscription, and I have a steady "income" of Crowns coming in as long as I keep playing. Also, I was glad to see that you listened to people's requests and added some of the most desired items to the Crown Store during the latest updates (particularly more pets and especially the Ring of Mara). I've already spent a good portion of my crowns, and I anticipate spending more as new items are added, and as I obtain more Crowns.
What I don't want to see (and some of the items lately added to the Crown Store seem to point this way) is for our Gold to become virtually obsolete in favor of purchasing items with Crowns, as far as ESO itself is concerned. You've added mounts to the Crown Store. That's great! Add some more to the Stables -- ones we can buy with Gold. You've added Soul Gems to the Crown Store that have no level requirement. In my opinion, that makes them better than the ones in game, making that a violation of your promise not to add items to the Crown Store that are better than what are available in game. An easy fix for that: allow the Mystics in game to sell the same type of items for Gold, or make them a lootable item from chests or monsters, or both. Allow us to expand our guild banks, our packs and bank spaces even more (using Gold). Allow us to buy player housing/dimensions, and guild halls, both with upgradeable furnishings, servants (such as vendors) and decorations. Also, allow us to purchase tiered storage in our guild banks, to allow access to certain areas by guild rank.
ESO has only a certain amount of inherent gold sinks. Everything else we spend gold on is a choice we make of whether to buy it from another player or NPC or find it ourselves if we're determined to get it.
Major Gold Sinks
Bank Upgrades cost: 767,300g
Bag Upgrades cost: 180 x 250g = 38,500g x 8 = 308,000g
Mounts cost 42,700g x 3 = 128,100g (specialized horses) + 10,000g (basic horse) = 138,100g
This comes to a Grand Total of 1,213,400g.
Minor gold sink costs that can often be avoided, but also take gold out of the economy when used include:
* Guild Store sales transaction fees (not the guild's cut from the tax, but the fee)
* Mail costs, including COD
* Equipment repairs
* Bounties
* Using the "Stuck" command
* Successful Guild trader bids (probably the largest sink in this list, but often offset by the taxes brought in by the guilds' sales)
* Feel free to remind me of any I may be overlooking at this time, since my memory's not perfect, but I think I got most of them.
As you can see though, the secondary list consists mostly of optional payments, since the costs can be avoided most of the time. As it stands, if a player wants to buy all available bank, bag and mount upgrades, and also collect every type of mount that can be purchased with Gold, that player will spend 1,213,400g. Everything else is upkeep, or optional, or just keeps building up.
To a beginning player, or possibly to one unable to manage gold well, that may sound like a lot. But, thinking back to last year when certain provisioning recipes were selling for 800,000g -- and this was not long after the game's release -- it's obvious that just under 1.25 million gold doesn't take long to accumulate.
So now what? Where do we spend out gold, when every new item we see is only added to the Crown Store? Also, since ZOS controls the drop rate of items in game, what's to stop you from making motifs as rare as recipes were last summer in order to boost Crown Store sales? Instead of the self-righteous snickers of those talking of the possibility of motif sellers having the prices bottom out because now motifs are available for Crowns, they may be crying when they have to choose between spending $40 for an Imperial Motif and $500,000g for it in game when suddenly they're not dropping anymore.
Those are worst-case scenarios, and I hope we don't see them. What I do want to see is for ZOS to add more real gold sinks into the game so we can get some value for the gold we spend, not just some inflated price determined by another player working on his 25th million.
Thanks for reading!
@charlmgn
Don't get me wrong. I was glad to see the Crown Store open, and being a long-term player (since shortly after launch), I accumulated a sizable number of Crowns during the changeover. Add that to my 90-day subscription, and I have a steady "income" of Crowns coming in as long as I keep playing. Also, I was glad to see that you listened to people's requests and added some of the most desired items to the Crown Store during the latest updates (particularly more pets and especially the Ring of Mara). I've already spent a good portion of my crowns, and I anticipate spending more as new items are added, and as I obtain more Crowns.
What I don't want to see (and some of the items lately added to the Crown Store seem to point this way) is for our Gold to become virtually obsolete in favor of purchasing items with Crowns, as far as ESO itself is concerned. You've added mounts to the Crown Store. That's great! Add some more to the Stables -- ones we can buy with Gold. You've added Soul Gems to the Crown Store that have no level requirement. In my opinion, that makes them better than the ones in game, making that a violation of your promise not to add items to the Crown Store that are better than what are available in game. An easy fix for that: allow the Mystics in game to sell the same type of items for Gold, or make them a lootable item from chests or monsters, or both. Allow us to expand our guild banks, our packs and bank spaces even more (using Gold). Allow us to buy player housing/dimensions, and guild halls, both with upgradeable furnishings, servants (such as vendors) and decorations. Also, allow us to purchase tiered storage in our guild banks, to allow access to certain areas by guild rank.
ESO has only a certain amount of inherent gold sinks. Everything else we spend gold on is a choice we make of whether to buy it from another player or NPC or find it ourselves if we're determined to get it.
Major Gold Sinks
Bank Upgrades cost: 767,300g
Bag Upgrades cost: 180 x 250g = 38,500g x 8 = 308,000g
Mounts cost 42,700g x 3 = 128,100g (specialized horses) + 10,000g (basic horse) = 138,100g
This comes to a Grand Total of 1,213,400g.
Minor gold sink costs that can often be avoided, but also take gold out of the economy when used include:
* Guild Store sales transaction fees (not the guild's cut from the tax, but the fee)
* Mail costs, including COD
* Equipment repairs
* Bounties
* Using the "Stuck" command
* Successful Guild trader bids (probably the largest sink in this list, but often offset by the taxes brought in by the guilds' sales)
* Feel free to remind me of any I may be overlooking at this time, since my memory's not perfect, but I think I got most of them.
As you can see though, the secondary list consists mostly of optional payments, since the costs can be avoided most of the time. As it stands, if a player wants to buy all available bank, bag and mount upgrades, and also collect every type of mount that can be purchased with Gold, that player will spend 1,213,400g. Everything else is upkeep, or optional, or just keeps building up.
To a beginning player, or possibly to one unable to manage gold well, that may sound like a lot. But, thinking back to last year when certain provisioning recipes were selling for 800,000g -- and this was not long after the game's release -- it's obvious that just under 1.25 million gold doesn't take long to accumulate.
So now what? Where do we spend out gold, when every new item we see is only added to the Crown Store? Also, since ZOS controls the drop rate of items in game, what's to stop you from making motifs as rare as recipes were last summer in order to boost Crown Store sales? Instead of the self-righteous snickers of those talking of the possibility of motif sellers having the prices bottom out because now motifs are available for Crowns, they may be crying when they have to choose between spending $40 for an Imperial Motif and $500,000g for it in game when suddenly they're not dropping anymore.
Those are worst-case scenarios, and I hope we don't see them. What I do want to see is for ZOS to add more real gold sinks into the game so we can get some value for the gold we spend, not just some inflated price determined by another player working on his 25th million.
Thanks for reading!
@charlmgn
4
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MCMancub✭✭✭✭Careful, now. You'll motivate ZOS to implement a system similar to what we see in GW2 where you can buy crown points with gold and vice versa.Edited by MCMancub on April 16, 2015 1:32PM0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, its true that in the endgame, there isn't all that much to spend gold on - except looking through guild stores for stuff for your characters to use, be it rare motivs or that last piece for your armor set...
But generally, there is more income then spending opportunities (unless you are playing a very bad character that racks up bounty like there's no tomorrow...)
It would be neat to have more things to pay gold for... be it character stuff (I'd let people pay gold for dyeing their gear... same for the hopefully soon coming barbershop...) or guild improvements (I suspect there are several "friend group" mini guilds who might want to open up a guild bank or have heraldry despite being under the member limit... and who might save up some gold if that was possible with an extra charge).
Of course, there likely will be more things to spend gold on someday. At least when sometime in the distant future they add guildhalls and/or player homes I expect those will prove to be quite a gold sink...1 -
charlmgn✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »Well, its true that in the endgame, there isn't all that much to spend gold on - except looking through guild stores for stuff for your characters to use, be it rare motivs or that last piece for your armor set...
But generally, there is more income then spending opportunities (unless you are playing a very bad character that racks up bounty like there's no tomorrow...)
It would be neat to have more things to pay gold for... be it character stuff (I'd let people pay gold for dyeing their gear... same for the hopefully soon coming barbershop...) or guild improvements (I suspect there are several "friend group" mini guilds who might want to open up a guild bank or have heraldry despite being under the member limit... and who might save up some gold if that was possible with an extra charge).
Of course, there likely will be more things to spend gold on someday. At least when sometime in the distant future they add guildhalls and/or player homes I expect those will prove to be quite a gold sink...
I agree, those are some good things to add, and players have been speculating on those for the past year with no real confirmation from ZOS. As it stands now though, since Guild Halls most likely won't provide a tactical advantage, they're dead-center targets for Crown Store upgrades rather than Gold. There could be a mix, as is done in Rift, where some upgrades are obtainable through in-game currency while others are only obtainable through their cash shop. The difference with their cash shop (and I'm not advocating that ESO adopt Rift's system; it's just a certain aspect) is that, with most items, the player is given the option of purchasing with cash, or either in-game currency or tokens that drop in-game.
And, yes, there may be new Gold-purchased items on their way to the shops of Tamriel, but when was the last new item introduced? Every item I can buy from NPCs now, I could buy when I started playing, shortly after launch. So it's been almost a year, unless I'm missing something. But in the short time the Crown Store has been up, it's already had several separate additions.
I want to be clear: I don't begrudge ZOS the Crown Store, because I know they need a way to bring in cash since they've made subscriptions optional. I just don't want it to be their only way of adding new items to the game for us to purchase.0 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually, redeemable Tokens that could drop like Rare Motifs - but far more random with a drop rate equal or lower to Nirn say, where you could redeem them in the Crown store, or trade them for in game currency, wouldn't be a totally bad thing... *shrugs*
And by random, I do mean complete world random drop in node - this would invalidate farmers in certain areas like NW Craglorn or Dwemer dungeons.Edited by P3ZZL3 on April 17, 2015 8:08AMCP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
CP561 Breton | Jesus Beam Templar | Magicka Build Forever!
CP561 Naked Nord | Tanky DK | Stamigicka Build
✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭0 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nicely written post. I would like to caution your conclusions a bit, though. You mix up two separate things, cycled money and generated money. Selling a recipe for 800'000gold does not generate money, it only shifts existing money from player to player. This money doesn't enter or leave the economy (except for the miniscule taxes put on some of the avenues of trade).
All the gold dumps you have listed, remove the money from the economy by destroying it. This you can only compare with the money generated: Quest rewards, vendoring trash, pvp rewards, etc.
To make a meaningful comparison, you would need to match the money dumps against the money sources. Since the generation rate is incredibly varied from player to player, it is very difficult to adjust (maybe even impossible).
Right now, you base your comparison on a trader's skill to strip other players of their generated money. If the dumps would be based on the wealth this trader accumulates by having others generate it for him, then you end up creating an environment where players not using this venue will end up gold depleted.
Since these players are what generates the money that drives the economy that we as traders live off, it is a very delicate walk that needs to be walked here. If you deplete the economy by increasing the "dump rate" over the "generation rate", very soon there will be no gold left in game.
Edited by Keron on April 17, 2015 9:05AM1 -
charlmgn✭✭✭Nicely written post. I would like to caution your conclusions a bit, though. You mix up two separate things, cycled money and generated money. Selling a recipe for 800'000gold does not generate money, it only shifts existing money from player to player. This money doesn't enter or leave the economy (except for the miniscule taxes put on some of the avenues of trade).
All the gold dumps you have listed, remove the money from the economy by destroying it. This you can only compare with the money generated: Quest rewards, vendoring trash, pvp rewards, etc.
To make a meaningful comparison, you would need to match the money dumps against the money sources. Since the generation rate is incredibly varied from player to player, it is very difficult to adjust (maybe even impossible).
Right now, you base your comparison on a trader's skill to strip other players of their generated money. If the dumps would be based on the wealth this trader accumulates by having others generate it for him, then you end up creating an environment where players not using this venue will end up gold depleted.
Since these players are what generates the money that drives the economy that we as traders live off, it is a very delicate walk that needs to be walked here. If you deplete the economy by increasing the "dump rate" over the "generation rate", very soon there will be no gold left in game.
Very good point, and I'll try not to confuse the distinction. But we have also seen recent additions of Gold generating activities, specifically the crafting writ and theft rewards and ability to sell stolen items to Fences. And while there are costs involved in completing the Writs, and the potential for paying Bounties, Writ rewards themselves help offset those costs, and Bounties are almost always avoidable in one way or another.
As it stands now, the average player has a much greater ability to generate a greater amount of Gold than was possible months ago, with very little in the way of added unavoidable costs that will take that generated Gold back out of the game. But the point is not to try to impoverish less affluent players, but to give them more Gold-centered items to strive for. As it is, no one must purchase the bank, bag and mount upgrades I've mentioned as the main Gold sinks, but getting them is a good goal to reach for. I'm just looking for additional goals along the same lines, without the need to spend Cash for every new thing released in the game.
It may be different for some people, but I believe most people have easier access to more in-game Gold than they do to real-world Cash.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You are starting to see bored rich players bidding on kiosks and winning the bids. This does nothing but hurt the economy. Kiosks should be owned by guilds that can supply a well stocked store for people to browse. One rich person and a couple friends with 30 items each on a store is a waste of a kiosk.
I agree there should be some new gold sinks.0 -
bedlom✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree 100% if I don't have plenty to spend in game on, or save for, then I will get bored very quick.
Asking real cash for EVERYTHING is a very *** thing for an mmo to do, especially a game like TES, that is all about finding unique artifacts n goodies.
So far in eso, anything I have that I think is unique n cool, unique artifacts etc, have been either given as a reward for subscribing, or cost me real money.
ESO NEEDS a lot more unique goodies, to be discovered, bought and rewarded in game, no real money needed.
Otherwise ESO will suffer as a result.0