Crafting is a huge gold sink

Haxnschwammer

Beware: Edited/inserted text:
Didn't think many people could get my intention that wrong. And don't bother to read my later comments.
I was as well amazed as amused by the amount of hypothetical values I've spend on crafting.
Of course I didn't buy all the wares to deconstruct. Most I picked up while levelling like all the others.
I picked up flowers, used resource nodes and so on. It is a lot of "What if I've sold all that stuff instead".
Only a few costs can be narrowed down like nirncrux IF you buy them.

In short all I wanted to say is:
"Wow, that's been a lot of resources I used. Let's have a beer on that."
That's all. Nothing behind that.

Now here's the original post:



You think a crafter creates something? A crafter is a ever hungry gold sink!

Every player stumbles upon so called gold sinks, a place or mechanic where generated gold
will be taken out of the system. Quests generate gold, NPCs drop gold...to prevent
inflation the gold has to be spend somewhere. Especially as a crafter there are some ways
to loose gold. Even when another player gets the money, you destroy the value with reading
a motif book or a recipe. Even deconstructing prevents you from selling, so no more gold.
Many numbers here are just guesses because I'm not an accountant, but they don't seem overly off (to me).

1. Inventory
All players will sooner or later need more space. Buying all upgrades costs about 39K

2. Bank
If I remember right, all upgrades slots costs 768K in total. That's a lot. Yay once you did it!

3. Horses
Horses can grant another 60 inventory slots with proper training.
Training all skills will costs you 250*60*3 = 45K.
Plus the cost of your mount. And it needs time.

4.Professions
Now here we leave normal players and join the fun of crafting.

4.1. Alchemy
Pretty easy and cheap. Buy unwanted wormwood or thistles or whatever and start mixing.
I guess I spend around 50K, but I don't really remember. Also I picked everything up
so I didn't buy anything... A big advantage is you don't need a crafting buddy or recipes.

4.2. Provisioning
Easy and cheap. For 20 K you can occasionally buy level packs which 4 recipes and ingredients
to get to max level in 30 minutes. When you want all the recipes then it gets interesting.
Many you can pick up during playing. Some you can buy cheap in stores. But most purples
are expensive. I think a total of 300K is needed to get everything. You need just a handful though...

4.3. Enchanting
The most difficult to level. You need a ton of glyphs. Crafting buddy to deconstruct and recycle runes
is highly recommended. I made about 27 purple runes for a friend to push his level 37 to 44 or something.
Don't remember exactly but it was a huge difference. With only found and your own runes and glyphs
I assume a total of 300K of material value used. Runes are cheap, it's the amount of time that makes
levelling it a pain in the ass.

4.4. Clothing, Woodworking, Blacksmithing
Ok, those are quite similar. With a crafting buddy you will level at least 10 times faster. Really.
Get a buddy. When you deconstruct everything you've found instead of selling you will spend
a (virtual) value of 500k to 1.000K per craft. Yes, really. Get a crafting buddy.
Trait research is easy as you will get a lot of items during play. Rare traits still can be bought
from other players or guild stores. I charge 200 per item, others 2K. Ask around.

4.5. Motifs
Another place to spend money. Standard races you can buy cheap, 500 or so per book.
Barbarian or primal for 25K or daedric for 40K or imperial for 80K or dwemer for up to 200K.
I think an average motif package takes about 300K.
Or 50$ now in crown store. Boo, Zo$, Boo!

4.6. Nirncrux
Welcome to the masterpieces of crafting.
If you want to join the nirncrux hunt be aware you will spend a fortune.
Yes, you can farm and find them, but they are rare. Sometimes you can buy them
cheap, even nirnhoned items are for sale in stores. Allthough in stores they
are heavily overpriced.
But let's fake err... make up... PRESENT some numbers:
For all traits in all crafts you need 34 nirncrux, 22 fortified and 12 potent.
Most crafters I met take 5K if you can provide the stone, If not, well good luck...
22 * 20K = 440K fortified
12 * 30K = 360K potent
34 * 5K = 170K crafter fee
sums up to nearly 1 million gold, only for nirnhoned. And yes, prices for nirncrux
are going up again...

5. Conclusion
You are a master crafter? Maxed all of them? Then you gave up 5 to 6 million gold!
You could have been a filthy rich ***, stuffed with trial gear!
Are you proud now?

Damnit, yes I am!

golfer.dub17_ESO

Crafting doesn't seem like an effective way to make money in general, I bet most people do it for themselves and friends only.

For example, I can craft six-trait set gear. You know what people typically pay for a full set of that? One grand (or really, basically just a little over the cost of the materials required). Charge over that, they will just find someone else to make it cheaper.

Well, at least I can make decent money selling crappy whites with traits for people to research.

Zhoyzu

lol.... the only gold i get is from end campaign mails. so like 10k and another 10k if win. so like 20k a month ideally.

AlnilamE

I'm a Master Crafter (plus several alts leveled to 3/3 hirelings) and I have not spent that much money. Most of my gold was spent on inventory space, but that is also occupied by non-crafting items.

I just looked for the mats I needed. Time is money and money is time. You can spend money to save time or time to save money. It's your choice how you would like to play the game.

vovus69

apart from rare occurencies like nirnhoned items, 8- or 9- traits sets or yellow glyphs, crafting is just for your enjoyment and self confidence. And anyway, what would you spend gold on anyway?

Danikat

Having played an MMO without gold sinks (early Ultima Online, before the need for things like this was really understood) I'd much, much rather have them even if I end up spending most my gold on them. Without them the economy is a mess, anything you buy from merchants (or sell to them) is trivial, anything you buy from/sell to another player is absurdly expensive.

At least this way prices stay relatively consistent and you can choose whether to start crafting and spend the money required or go without. Or go part way. For example level up crafting but don't buy/use the rare motifs, or only get the one/s you like the look of.

drackonir

i don't really know the return value of crafting in ESO but i will be surprise if there is any. Crafting in ESO except few time consuming things is pretty easy and everyone goes for crafting.

In EQ2 crafting required as much time as character levelling, was not very costly but highly time consuming and skill related. As a result only small percentage of players were mastercrafters. Thanks to that, i was always among the first 10 richest guys on my server, solely based on money from jewellery crafting.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

The only craft of the 6 I have capped I spent gold on was Enchanting simply because I started it late once I'd leveled several characters to VR levels and not kept the runes.

Nestor

Crafting means never having to buy gear again. How is that a gold sink?

As far as being poor while learning how to craft, well, that's the price you pay. Once you learn the craft, then it's free gear.
And, every other character you make that gets the crafted swag for free is now able to sell all their loot as they see fit. So, they are rich.

I_killed_Vivec

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

The only craft of the 6 I have capped I spent gold on was Enchanting simply because I started it late once I'd leveled several characters to VR levels and not kept the runes.

Enchanting was the only one I spent gold on, but I found it to be too expensive for very little gain and struggled to level 50 the hard way (when enchanting was really hard).

But the OP isn't just concerned with cash you've spent, it's the cost of opportunity - I've deconstructed loads that could have been sold, even if only to a merchant. I also have a huge amount of "stock", partly because of a "just in case I need it one day" mentality but also because when writs started it took me a few days to get on top of the demand for materials. After a bit of application I now have reserves of everything I need for all 6 writs, but I could probably sell that off for a nice profit.

Beesting

I deconned so many items to level all my 8 chars to lvl 32 on all crafts, just for the hirelings.

The good bit is that now the hirelings are nerfed, i dont even log into them anymore.

Instead i jump straight into pvp. If only i would have spent all that time leveling the alts on pvp-ing, i would have had tens of millions of AP

There is was thinking in a mmo that will be around for years it pays off to plan and do some work, to reap the benefits later.

But who cares about gold anyway, i dont play a stamina nightblade so dont need the super expensive armor haha

Haxnschwammer

Hey guys, don't take all that too serious. Those numbers are hypothetical. With efficient levelling with crafting buddys or an alt you can cut 2.5 millions out of it. And you get some money with crafting, tempers from deconstruction and hirelings. Farming makes it even cheaper. I just was amazed about all the money I've spent on nirncrux so I just continued counting.

Of course crafting itself is not worth it if you look just on the money. It makes you somewhat unique though. And I like crafting, that makes it easier to look at numbers with a smile.

neueregel

I have them all maxed for convenience. I dont like to rely on anyone for anything if I dont have to. i do make gold though on provisioning (food) and alchemy (pots). I occasionally make some gold off set items I make, but I generally dont charge and get tipped.

Soulshine

Not sure how exactly you are handling your crafting but I have never ever spent a dime on crafting. I collect everything I find, never buys mats, sell anything that is not researched. Researching from drops is super easy and allows you to later sell everything else you collect. I have master crafters on NA and now on EU server and still have never had to even buy all bank and inventory space to accomplish this. If you are not selective in your process then all you do is waste both your money and your time. There is also a ton of money to be made from end game food, pots and certain glyphs - so I see no issues with crafting of the kind you mention.

nathan_bri

You need never spend a cent on professions if you merely do it as the materials become available through the natural course of questing or whatever it is you do in the game.

Is there good money to be made from professions? Hell yes. Notice that I did not say "from crafting." Actual crafting usually yields very little money for the work involved except in a few cases. The professions themselves, from refining materials to receiving two hireling emails per day per profession per character... holy *** yes. I make over a million a month from just logging in twice a day to my eight characters, each of which has the "best hirelings money can buy." Combine that with being in five decent trade guilds... money rolls in.

Sandmanninja

I'm a master crafter.
I have maxed out everything - bs, ww, cloth, enchanting, alchemy and provisioning.
I make purple gear for all of my toons, and my friends, too!
As a treat, I crafted a full set of legendary gear when I hit VR1.
I make myself new enchants whenever I make new gear.
I can experiment with different hidden crafting station set bonuses.
I've been making blue sets of gear and selling for what I would call a nice, tidy sum of gold.

Yes, I have spent gold on bags - who hasn't? I don't lug my mats with me into dungeons - I keep them in my bank.
So the bag expense isn't really a crafting issue.

As far as getting gear to deconstruct - I haven't spent a cent on any.
I send my alts out as they level. They quest, kill all mobs as they quest, they loot everything they kill, then they bank everything (selling white gear to cover day to day expenses).
I have stacks and stacks of mats and it's all free.

daemonios

The OP is seriously skewed. He assumes everything as a net cost, but:

- More inventory space = more loot you can carry at a time and vendor / sell in guild stores = more time playing = more money.
- More bank space = less juggling your stuff between mules (if that's your thing) = more time playing = more money.
- More leveled skills = craft your own gear = less money spent buying gear from others = more money for you.
- Research highly-sought-after traits (e.g. nirnhoned) = sell to other players at a profit = more money.

But that's just about gold. Gold is useless if you don't use it. Why would I sit on a pile of gold (and I *am* sitting on a pile of gold, just from playing normally)? The main point is that leveling skills and professions is fun! Just play the freaking game and enjoy it

Code2501

I guess it depends on your play style.

I have leveled every profession to top tier from mats and gear I acquired while leveling, and doing the occasional writ.
I didn't need to trade or buy to get there.
I'm at 6-8 traits researched for every item in blacksmith, clothier and woodwork from only loot drops from leveling.
I have never purchased a motif, and have all except Imperial, Barbaric and several Dwarven. I also have the top tier of each food and drink purple recipies just from looting and writs.

Opportunity costs, maybe, but for that I can craft any of the crafted sets I want in any combo with most any style, have long lasting food buffs for free, and a healthy stash of Tannins, Tempers, Resins and Kuta runes for when I want to re-spec my gear.

Deheart

On my main, I leveled up from 0 to 50 on Clothing, Blacksmithing, and Woodworking just by deconstructing everything, training stats, and occasionally making special amror/weapons for me or someone else as needed.

And almost everything I deconstructed was just from loot. Now I have mats galore and no one is buying lol.

Haxnschwammer

I find it strange how many people don't get my point.
I was as well amazed as amused by the amount of hypothetical values I've spend on crafting.
Of course I didn't buy all the wares to deconstruct. Most I picked up while levelling.
I picked up flowers, used resource nodes and so on. It is a lot of "What if I've sold all that stuff instead".
Only a few costs can be narrowed down like nirncrux IF you buy them.

In short all I wanted to say is:
"Wow, that's been a lot of materials I used. Let's have a beer on that."
That's all. Nothing behind that.

P3ZZL3

Deheart wrote: »

Now I have mats galore and no one is buying lol.

Everyone one is buying. I can't get them quick enough. The question is whether people are buying at your prices

If you're on EU let's hook up

Merlin13KAGL

Orrrrrrrrrrrrr...you could find the items in the world and pay out very little, in the grand scheme of things.

Some of your logic is flawed (Stamina Horse has zero to do with crafting, though I can see some justification for speed)

Most researchables can be found and researched. The only one's I'm having issue coming across are Nirnhoned.

Even if you did forfeit "millions of gold," you reach a certain point where you are bringing in more than you are shelling out - even if it's just from selling mobs drops while hunting for flowers.

It may initially be a gold sink, but it's not unbalanced as a result.

daemonios

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

In short all I wanted to say is:
"Wow, that's been a lot of materials I used. Let's have a beer on that."
That's all. Nothing behind that.

Click-baity topic doesn't reflect that very accurately

Cheers! *drinksbeer*

thesongoftimeb14_ESO

I have been playing this game since the start. Spent a ton of gold in enchanting, spent plenty on the other crafts as well. My highest leveled players are a V8 Orc, a V8 Breton, and a V1 Templar. 2 of those 3 have mastered all the crafts between them to the point that in 51 days, I will be 9 traited in everything. I had to buy the crux since I have yet to do Craglorn, I don't do any pvp cept maybe a few hours to check it out. I have maxed out my bank slots and spent plenty on my horses. On top of all that, I have an alts bank slots filled up with an entire closet full of V12-V14 complete armour sets consisting of v12 warlock, v12 shadow Walker, v14 healer set, v14 footman and many other sets that I can't even wear yet with the whole closet being worth well over a million gold. I bought it all since I have yet to reach a high enough level to obtain them myself. And still, I am sitting on 2.6 million gold. Where is this gold sync you speak of? It may feel like it early on, but once you start getting to where your going, there is no reason to not have at least a million gold set aside in your bank.

Haenk

I'm more of a crafter (and less of a fighter), still money is not really an issue if you would not chose the path of *purchasing* all your levelling material.
For analysing traits, I mostly used the stuff I looted during Cadwell. That is without Nirn, of course.
For skilling, I deconstructed everything I found.
Food & Alchemy is easily done, too. Every component (and receipts) can be found while running around. Of course, one needs to pick them up.
Enchanting is a bit more time-consuming and eventually I purchased a couple of purple glyphs to deconstruct. Btw. it's pointless to head for Level 50, there is no benefit.
Researching Nirn is another story however. This currently requires a lot of money as you need to purchase player-crafted items. Prices are increasing (30k / piece), so 1 million probably is a good estimate.

idk

Omg. This thread is hilarious.

Besides the FACT most of your points are False it's just a qq thread.

Bag space and bank inventory is the only good cost.

Materials and motifs are FREE in game. It's a choice to pay for them. Don't complain because you CHOOSE to buy your matts and motifs. Then again, I wouldn't have as much gold if you had not.

Thx for the laugh.

Edit

Max woodworking,'blacksmithing, clothing on 1 character
Max alchemy and provisioning on 4 characters.
Max enchanting on two characters.
Hardly spend any good I acheive those.

reften

Crafting takes a LONG time to pay off, but it does...you just have to play a long time.

At level 50, you can do daily writs that give you 608 gold each.

The provisioning one is free money as the materials needed for the writ are ultra easy to make and save.

Alchemist and Enchanting - Both pretty easy, I have to hunt for Nirmroot every once in a while, or buy it, but, I'm in a spot now where I otherwise never have to replenish materials for these writs.

Clothier, Wood, and Blacksmith different. Over time, when you get 100 mats, you can do the writ, but otherwise hard to do.

But if you farm materials a bit, you can easily do on average 4 writs a day, sell/store the stuff you get from writs, and make 2400+ a day in gold in like 10-20 mins once you get good.

Otherwise, the other HUGE savings is, if you're like me, you like to test lots of builds, and that results in lots of crafting. You save a ton of time and gold because you don't need to find a crafter and/or pay them gold to make stuff.

My advice, level the crafts you'll use (i.e. DW Med armor NB? Build Provisioning, Blacksmith, and Clothier)

Decon ALL enchanting items you find just to build enchanting a little

When you get to VR14+, you can powerlevel everything else pretty fast. Critical to find an enchanter partner to decon swap.

NCML

These must be EU prices.

Moonshadow66

I do all craftings with all my characters (except for one which doesn't craft armor/weapons). That's just in-game money, I really don't care much if I lose another million just by flattening tons of armor or weapons or if I need to buy another Imperial motif for 1 of 7 characters who still needs it for the achievement (and I'm not even a fan of this style!).

About 2 weeks ago, I paid 100k bounty (a bit more even) for a very nice player which I didn't even know up to this point, just because it was fun watching him fighting and breaking the law^^ That's fun, that's enjoying the game, if I lose money - so what

Chikenuget

Nestor wrote: »

Crafting means never having to buy gear again. How is that a gold sink?

As far as being poor while learning how to craft, well, that's the price you pay. Once you learn the craft, then it's free gear.
And, every other character you make that gets the crafted swag for free is now able to sell all their loot as they see fit. So, they are rich.

A lot of the best gear is non-craftable.

NewBlacksmurf

U hmmm it's 100% free unless you're trying to speed through or make something you lack mats for and choose to buy or purchase