Global Auction House will kill the economy

pugyourself

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

One can easily relate a global AH to real life economy. Biggest example is "mom and pop shops" being driven out of business by "one stop shop" companies like wal mart. What is left after the mom and pop shops are gone are monopolies and horrid employment options. There is no more competition in prices. Global AH would ruin this game.

Except you have it backwards.

An AH would enable every player to be a Mom & Pop Shop.

The Guild Traders are variations on a theme of Walmart.

What this shows is that many of the people opposed to an AH actually have no understanding of the basics of economics at all.

All The Best

The above quote shows zero understanding of economics. The appropriate analogy would be every player competing for shelf space at WalMart (requiring the lowest prices to be seen) and WalMart consistently driving down the prices to serve the consumers who are demanding this.

A global auction house would have an initial small benefit to a few people who could manage to sell some raw mats for slightly over NPC vendor rates.

However, due to the unprofitability of selling here, you will see large groups or wealthy individuals hording resources until they can set profitable prices for their items. Capital will concentrate among a small number of groups and wealthy individuals who will control that auction house economy. You will see a massive percentage of the population flat broke with crappy gear (unless they've crafted or won it themselves).

Before you criticize others' grasp of economics, you should know something about it yourself.

Frawr

AH works on other games because only 1000-2000 people on a server. ALL OF EU is on 1 server and all of USA/Australia/other is on the other server. That is hell of a lot more than 1000-2000.

Too many for functioning AH (which is basically a large guild trader).

Ok I use the example of Panacea of Health.

Currently, you can buy Panacea of Health at 20k or you can buy it at 10k depending where you shop.

With your Auction House system, noone will be ble to sell at 20k. Everyone will go as follows:

10000
9999
9990
9980
9750
9700
9500
9499
9498
9400
...
...
...

With so many people listing (at least 5 people selling these on many traders), the price will drop and drop, specially at weekends.

The price will find a bottom, where people will stop listing because they will wait for it to rise again. Price will rise again once none are available and someone will put on at 20k

20000
19000
16000
15000
./..
...
...
...


Off we go again.

Sure, this happens now on each vendor but to a much lesser degree.

Better solution:

Increase guild size to 1000? not sure whether this would be counter productive

Even better solution:

Improve the crafting system by adding resource quality and subcomponents; leading to products differing in quality and adding more diversity.

Naivefanboi

they already said in last eso live, auction houses will never happen. and probably several times before that.
granted some things change but this has always had the same response.
no, the economy wont support it.

Flamescale

Jeremy wrote: »

Every other game out there with an auction house as well as the real world economy proves your post wrong.

Uhm... Diablo 3. Having a global AH was such a disaster that they had to remove it. How many other times have you heard of Blizzard removing a major feature from their games after release?

Convenience is not necessarily a good thing. When buying everything from the auction house becomes far more convenient than by actually playing the game, it can hinder overall enjoyment. The player may not even realize it's happening. It may feel extremely appealing when all you have to do is put coins in the vending machine to get the loot you want, but pretty soon you are going to get bored.

Secondly, having many auction houses makes it extremely difficult for people to undercut or corner the market.

That's not to say I don't think the current system could use some improvements. For example, I wholeheartedly agree that there are far too many kiosks.

Tandor

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Not to mention that people ONLY want a Global AH when the choice is Global AH or current system.

Most people either want a much improved, easier to access, Guild Trader system or a Faction based AH system.

This.

Defenders of the present system keep trying to argue as if the only other option being proposed is a global auction house, but they structure their topic titles and polls to apply bias in that direction, doubtless because they know that option has always been rejected by ZOS.

However, once you read the detailed comments from critics of the present system you see that they don't want any auction house to be global and most don't even want an auction house at all they simply want to modify the present guild kiosk system so people who aren't in guilds can list items albeit at an increased listing cost, and so people can search for and buy items without having to travel around for the few kiosks they are able to access due to level and alliance restrictions.

The idea of a global auction house is a red herring, and the sooner we can forget it and talk about ways of improving the present system (as wanted by the majority of the present system's defenders in a recent poll quite apart from those who don't like the present system) the sooner we can open up the trading system to everyone and the sooner guilds can make more money.

pugyourself

Tandor wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Not to mention that people ONLY want a Global AH when the choice is Global AH or current system.

Most people either want a much improved, easier to access, Guild Trader system or a Faction based AH system.

This.

Defenders of the present system keep trying to argue as if the only other option being proposed is a global auction house, but they structure their topic titles and polls to apply bias in that direction, doubtless because they know that option has always been rejected by ZOS.

However, once you read the detailed comments from critics of the present system you see that they don't want any auction house to be global and most don't even want an auction house at all they simply want to modify the present guild kiosk system so people who aren't in guilds can list items albeit at an increased listing cost, and so people can search for and buy items without having to travel around for the few kiosks they are able to access due to level and alliance restrictions.

The idea of a global auction house is a red herring, and the sooner we can forget it and talk about ways of improving the present system (as wanted by the majority of the present system's defenders in a recent poll quite apart from those who don't like the present system) the sooner we can open up the trading system to everyone and the sooner guilds can make more money.

I would like to agree with you on what the other side wants. But you can see in the last few discussions, that a huge portion of people keep pushing the auction house concept. This poll is designed specifically to give the auction house idea "legs" or put it to rest. Whichever option wins this poll I will put up against an idea similar to what you proposed here.

I think you are aware of the many individuals in the previous two threads who continue to push the auction house idea. If you want to pm me, I can send you links to the comments. However, COC prevents me from doing it here.

NewBlacksmurf

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The Global AH is Walmart.

So wrong as to beggar belief.

A global AH allows EVERY SINGLE player to buy and sell on their own terms, with no restrictions, no controls, nothing.

It is the very definition of a Free Market.

The Guild Traders are the Walmart-esque monopolies; to trade through them you have to do so ON THEIR TERMS, the very antithesis of a Free Market.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sorry but your arguments make a great reason why we don't need a global AH.

You only think that because (as your comments show) you do not understand the argument I made, even at its most basic level.

All The Best

One...this isn't a free market AND following the story it's VERY clear that this game shouldn't have a free market based on story.

Guild traders are not Walmart. Walmart is a corporation that runs and operates stores all over the place who control 100% of the quality, profits, vendors and products for a cost in a controlling manner. By design their market focus is to force other companies to sale their products through them or be put out of business?

Guild traders are mom n pop shops where they all exist independent of any other and have no affiliations to any other. They are a member based group that on occasions pay to market their products in the larger market.

WALMART is or would be a global AH
The guild stores that appear in the market is an organized system like a farmers market where each mom n pop store is paying for a booth rental fee on select occurrences in order to market their wares.

I understand your argument but again you are trying to base your argument off invalid comparisons.


Explanation: of how each breaks down

1. People using chat only to sale items who are not members of a guild with a AH
-These are in society in a category with drug dealers, etsy, local people who may sale on the Internet, in a newbie hood, yard sales, family n friends, or pending the birth of s business venture. These individuals do not file taxes, do not have employees

2. Guilds with AH
-These are groups that under membership have come together and under their agreements or lack thereof, do commerce within a closed circle or closed circles as they may transact with up to 5 different guilds.
-in real life this is a small to mid-size storefront on a membership club like EBay, Amazon, discount warehouses, Multi-level marketing, family businesses and restaurants or services where in most cases the entity is registered within state or local licenses to transact business and if a certain amount of money is exchanged they are to file taxes business related and have employees that are paid.

3. Walmart
-a company based that does not make anything but whose focus is to provide a warehouse store for communities to come buy other companies products without membership or any affiliation
-in relation to TESO, this would be like ZOS approaching each guild to sale and list their items in the ZOS market while the guild store items are for sale. The difference is that on this ZOS market, the items are cheaper in price and often are of lesser quality in some respects.

4. Global AH or as you say Free a Market
-This system allows any and everyone to list any item regardless of quantity, quality, legality or rights.
-this system is operated solely by the individuals who use it and opens itself to any known or unknown balance or lack of inhale balance
-This system opens itself to BOTs, thiefs, guild bank raiding, phishing scams to raid a users inventory and later sale on this open market

ItsGlaive

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Oh and think about this.

When E-Bay launched how many of us snapped up those bargain Porsches that were suddenly costing just $10 a pop because the market crashed?

What, none of you?

Why?

Oh, because it didn't happen.

'Nuff said!

All The Best

Comparing the real world with a game world is completely futile. In the real world, people don't undercut heavily on porches to shift them quickly because they're eating up all of their bag space, or because they're impatient. Businesses price what they can afford to while retaining a profit. If they don't they go out of business. There are no such checks and balances in a game, where loot drops like candy, costs you nothing to obtain and poses no consequences if you give it away at rock bottom prices.

In the real world you don't find porsches in drawers and cupboards, dead skeevers don't drop porsches out of their asses and you certainly don't get awarded porsches every time you do someone a favour.

This is a megaserver, much like GW2, everything BUT the porsche would be drastically under-priced, it'd floor the value of gold and make than shiny porsche all but unattainable ever for anyone coming into the game now, because unlike everything else, the price of the porsche would just sky rocket - if it's rare enough, people will ask ridiculous amounts of money but your chances at earning decent money would've dried up with the prices of everything that isn't a porsche.

The current system in ESO works because the fragmentation keeps the crazies from dropping the value of gold too much, while simultaneously keeping rare items rare, and yet affordable if you save.

Please stop pretending you're an economic wizard who can fix ESO with a few posts. Check out the only other game to have the megaserver auction house you're fighting for and tell me that the above isn't what happened over there. (Spoiler: It is, I've played that game long enough to know that.)

All the best!

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Frawr wrote: »

AH works on other games because only 1000-2000 people on a server. ALL OF EU is on 1 server and all of USA/Australia/other is on the other server. That is hell of a lot more than 1000-2000.

Too many for functioning AH (which is basically a large guild trader).

As has been mentioned numerous times:

Wildstar: Has megaservers (just like ESO) and a Faction Based Auction House; it works just fine.

All The Best

Ketta

Xabien wrote: »

Hasn't this already been settled? ZOS said in Friday's ESO Live that they are not giving people and auction house, thank the gods.

Do people start these AH threads now just to have somebody to talk to?

Since when has a declaration from the 'powers that be' ensure silence from the dissenters? To take from a couple of real life examples (which I don't typically like to do when comparing them to a virtual world), do you think the movement toward equal rights for the LGBT population as well as the movement to legalize marijuana would be at the state they are in the US without constant support from a significant part of the population?

And no, I'm not comparing either of those landmark movements in the US to a global AH in ESO. Just simply trying to encourage you and others to stop telling those who disagree with ESO's stance to essentially shut up and move on.

When you have an overwhelming majority of the player base who want to see at least SOME change and improvement, ranging from fixing and embellishing the current system to shifting to a global auction/commission system, it's certainly a good idea to pay attention if you're in a position to do something about it. When it comes to the 'bottom line', ESO is no different than any other MMO out there today (as opposed to back in the days of Verant's EQ, where developers could get away with 'this is the way it is, not changing, deal with it' due to a lack of competition).

I completely understand why ESO wants to stick to this core idea of guild merchants, but they really need to understand it isn't perfect and desperately needs some change. If you don't agree, that's fine...be my guest and dissent! I promise I won't suggest you be silent.

Edited for grammar.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

pugyourself wrote: »

The above quote shows zero understanding of economics. The appropriate analogy would be every player competing for shelf space at WalMart (requiring the lowest prices to be seen) and WalMart consistently driving down the prices to serve the consumers who are demanding this.

A global auction house would have an initial small benefit to a few people who could manage to sell some raw mats for slightly over NPC vendor rates.

However, due to the unprofitability of selling here, you will see large groups or wealthy individuals hording resources until they can set profitable prices for their items. Capital will concentrate among a small number of groups and wealthy individuals who will control that auction house economy. You will see a massive percentage of the population flat broke with crappy gear (unless they've crafted or won it themselves).

Before you criticize others' grasp of economics, you should know something about it yourself.

If there were an AH (Global, Faction or Zone) there would be NO PRESSURE applied to anyone because of it. The AH would be a mechanism, nothing more; it wouldn't have goals, or profit margins, or desires to corner a market. It would be JUST A TOOL which players could use to buy and sell goods.

The ONLY pressure that would apply to the prices of goods is the willingness of the buyers to pay for those goods - in real world parlance "the market would set the price".

However, there is pressure to price to some plan in the Trade Guilds. Now, not all Trade Guilds have pricing policies etc, but some do, so the market there is is being manipulation, but not with downward pressure are you suggest would happen with an AH, but with upward pressure.

And lets be honest that is what all this is about: some of the Trade Guilds don't want a more open market subject to genuine market forces because they lack the nouse to be able to make a profit in such a market and can only do so with their closed-shop cartels.

I have played numerous games with variations on an AH and never have I seen "a massive percentage flat broke with crappy gear".

I have never been flat-broke in any game and I am a notorious "impulse spender" in MMOs, and just what is wrong with people crafting their own gear - surely that is THE EXACT PURPOSE of a crafting system

All The Best

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

ItsGlaive

Ketta wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Hasn't this already been settled? ZOS said in Friday's ESO Live that they are not giving people and auction house, thank the gods.

Do people start these AH threads now just to have somebody to talk to?

Since when has a declaration from the 'powers that be' ensure silence from the dissenters? To take from a couple of real life examples (which I don't typically like to do when comparing them to a virtual world), do you think the movement toward equal rights for the LGBT population as well as the movement to legalize marijuana would be at the state they are in the US without constant support from a significant part of the population?

And no, I'm not comparing either of those landmark movements in the US to a global AH in ESO. Just simply trying to encourage you and others to stop telling those who disagree with ESO's stance to essentially shut up and move on.

When you have an overwhelming majority of the player base who want to see at least SOME change and improvement, ranging from fixing and embellishing the current system to shifting to a global auction/commission system, it's certainly a good idea to pay attention if you're in a position to do something about it. When it comes to the 'bottom line', ESO is no different than any other MMO out there today (as opposed to back in the days of Verant's EQ, where developers could get away with 'this is the way it is, not changing, deal with it' due to a lack of competition).

I completely understand why ESO wants to stick to this core idea of guild merchants, but they really need to understand it isn't perfect and desperately needs some change. If you don't agree, that's fine...be my guest and dissent! I promise I won't suggest you be silent.

Edited for grammar.

Valid points, and I'm still on the fence about the legalization of pot because I've seen what it can do to people, but that's another discussion entirely

Even so, the current system is so firmly ingrained into the fabric of the game. This isn't like VR levels, it wasn't bolted on at the end, it was built in from the start. Many guild since launch have worked with this system, put endless time and in some cases money into making it work.

And it does work! Those of us who embraced it have seen it first hand. Aside from my main guild, I belong to three other trade guilds. I buy and sell at fair prices and can almost always find the stuff I need. The stuff I want is a different matter, sometimes that takes a little shopping around.

I agree that improvements can be made. I was in London the other day outside a building that once belonged to the East India Company, got me thinking that maybe a large, multi-levelled hall in each capital could house all of the guild traders. It'd give us a chance to increase the volume of them while also housing them all under one roof. It might even smooth out the bidding prices a little, they should've vary as wildly because they're all in the same location.

Sorry digressing again. My point is that the existing system works. And it's central to the way the game has been built. So I don't see it going anywhere, ever. No matter how much lobbying ZOS get.

From what I've seen over the past year on the forums, the only ones who say it doesn't are the ones who dig their heels in, pout and refuse to give it a shot. Could it use improvements? Absolutely, and that's even something that could happen (bolted on improvements like the guild traders were). But it's built us a stable economy, with no wild price fluctuations or gold value fluctuations. And of all the mmos I've played (of which there have been many) it's the most fun system to trade in!

ItsGlaive

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

PS: No come-back on my E-Bay / Porsche comment?

Is that because you know I am right and you haven't got a come-back?

All The Best

Chose to ignore my response to your porsche analogy then?

As for pricing policies. I've been in perhaps twelve trade guilds since the beginning (the only constant being my main one) and I've never ever come across these. So if they exist they must be very rare. Please don't spread misinformation to support your argument, even if you have happened to find one that fits your description of these nasty evil corporate guilds.

All the best!

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Xabien wrote: »

Aside from my main guild, I belong to three other trade guilds. I buy and sell at fair prices and can almost always find the stuff I need. The stuff I want is a different matter, sometimes that takes a little shopping around.

You say the system works; but then the examples you give of your experience of it shows that it doesn't.

If it did work you'd have no need to be in multiple guilds.

You certainly wouldn't need to be in three guilds just for trading purposes.

That a single player needs to be in multiple guilds just for trade shows that the system doesn't work.

And we know why.

No centralised search ability.
Kiosks scattered across the entire game world, often in places ONLY accessible to players already at end-game.


PS: Of all the MMO systems I have played this is the very worst subsystem of any kind (even worse than LOTROs armour essences), I can't say if its fun or not, because as a solo player I am not allowed to take part.

All The Best

freakyfreak

Little Red Corvette

pugyourself

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

The above quote shows zero understanding of economics. The appropriate analogy would be every player competing for shelf space at WalMart (requiring the lowest prices to be seen) and WalMart consistently driving down the prices to serve the consumers who are demanding this.

A global auction house would have an initial small benefit to a few people who could manage to sell some raw mats for slightly over NPC vendor rates.

However, due to the unprofitability of selling here, you will see large groups or wealthy individuals hording resources until they can set profitable prices for their items. Capital will concentrate among a small number of groups and wealthy individuals who will control that auction house economy. You will see a massive percentage of the population flat broke with crappy gear (unless they've crafted or won it themselves).

Before you criticize others' grasp of economics, you should know something about it yourself.

Speaking of (wilful) misunderstanding just look at this ^ utter nonsense.

If there were an AH (Global, Faction or Zone) there would be NO PRESSURE applied to anyone because of it. The AH would be a mechanism, nothing more; it wouldn't have goals, or profit margins, or desires to corner a market. It would be JUST A TOOL which players could use to buy and sell goods.

The ONLY pressure that would apply to the prices of goods is the willingness of the buyers to pay for those goods - in real world parlance "the market would set the price".

However, there is pressure to price to some plan in the Trade Guilds. Now, not all Trade Guilds have pricing policies etc, but some do, so the market there is is being manipulation, but not with downward pressure are you suggest would happen with an AH, but with upward pressure.

And lets be honest that is what all this is about: some of the Trade Guilds don't want a more open market subject to genuine market forces because they lack the nouse to be able to make a profit in such a market and can only do so with their closed-shop cartels.

I have played numerous games with variations on an AH and never have I seen "a massive percentage flat broke with crappy gear", so unless you can support that ridiculous claim with documentary evidence of some kind I'll treat it as the quite obvious lie that it is.

I have never been flat-broke in any game and I am a notorious "impulse spender" in MMOs, and just what is wrong with people crafting their own gear - surely that is THE EXACT PURPOSE of a crafting system

PS: No come-back on my E-Bay / Porsche comment?

Is that because you know I am right and you haven't got a come-back?

All The Best

Your Porsche analogy was uneducated nonsense. There's my comeback. Try cracking a book or working a job that doesn't require you to swing a hammer. You'll learn something.

ItsGlaive

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Aside from my main guild, I belong to three other trade guilds. I buy and sell at fair prices and can almost always find the stuff I need. The stuff I want is a different matter, sometimes that takes a little shopping around.

You say the system works; but then the examples you give of your experience of it shows that it doesn't.

If it did work you'd have no need to be in multiple guilds.

You certainly wouldn't need to be in three guilds just for trading purposes.

That a single player needs to be in multiple guilds just for trade shows that the system doesn't work.

And we know why.

No centralised search ability.
Kiosks scattered across the entire game world, often in places ONLY accessible to players already at end-game.


PS: Of all the MMO systems I have played this is the very worst subsystem of any kind (even worse than LOTROs armour essences), I can't say if its fun or not, because as a solo player I am not allowed to take part.

All The Best

That's precisely how the system was intended to work - which is why we were given five guild slots in the first place.

And you're not a solo player. Many of my guildies are solo players. Pretty much all of the levelling experience is solo. Being in a trade guild doesn't impact that at all. What you seem to be (forgive the assumption) is an unsociable player. We have many solo players in our guilds, they do their own thing and we leave them to it. They use us for the store, and that's find by us, it's the service we provide.

Also I notice you neglected to recognise my addressing your porsche point again

All the best!

Audigy

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

The economy at ESO is a myth. Sure some players might use the trading guilds, but the majority? They don't even participate in that system as its so limiting.
Not only must you be a member of a guild to use said kiosk, no! Many guilds also charge a fee or demand consistent online times, something not everyone can / wants to fulfill.

So, a global auction house would foster free market competition...

But those guilds that want to recruit and maintain a competitive and healthy membership are awful?

Your logic here confuses me. I am not a member of a trade guild that requires a weekly fee. I do belong to a trade guild that requires me to be an active player and post a minimum number of items on the guild store. There's nothing wrong with guilds that do not have such requirements.

However:
to say that these "elitist" guilds are the bane of ESO's economy is pure silliness. If guilds weren't competitive, Craglorn would be full of guild traders with a few hundred useless items to offer and nothing else. I like going to guild traders with massive selections. You're sure to find what you need. Just because you don't log in once a week and can't scrounge together a few thousand gold to give back to your guild sounds like a personal problem to me.

First of all, I don't want a global AH, but a place to trade freely without the requirement of someone "allowing" it.

Now to the actual topic about guilds in general,

You know, I have grown up with MMOs in which guilds were nothing else than a bunch of friends coming together and having an easier communication. Sometimes you killed a few bears in the forest or cleared a spider cave, those who wanted to join could do so, without all that RL nonsense of "apply & pay" to show your worth to us.

A real guild interface didn't even exist, no we tagged our chars by things like "FR", "LF" or similar. This was all we had and did, no forum, no TS, no guild banks or similar.

Forming a guild in the very first MMO´s did not at any time feel demanding or a constant pressure to a gamer where you get kicked from a guild just because you didn't log on or couldn't join a raid. We were friendly individuals doing stuff together if we found the time. This idea however was ruined over time by elitists. Those people abuse guilds for their own personal fame and wealth inside a game.
These guilds are nothing else than a breeding ground for personal status and reputation, but no longer friendly environments for its members where equality and friendship matters. To form a guild in an MMO today is almost exclusively to gain something in the sense of wealth and riches. Its either that you get access to trading like at ESO, or that you get access to powerful items and perks like at WOW.

In theory this doesn't seem to bad, but it is. It is because the personality and kindness of a member no longer matters, its all about being online to fulfill demands for perks, trade slots, guild quests or treasure chests.

You can call this a personal problem if you like, but as a working person I will never ever bow down to this system. If I have the choice between listing 10 items in a shop, or going out with my friends then I will always pick my friends over this. That those "leaders" wont accept this is indeed my bad, but for me gaming is a hobby and not a job.

I currently play a browser game and tried to join a guild there. It was shocking which requirements people there have. From being online every day to never miss a guild quest or actually paying gold to join. Nobody actually cared who I am or what I can contribute based on my personality. No, it was just a check list without any personal touch, a bit like signing a contract with a customer...

I fully understand that professional guilds need a structure and someone in charge, I had that position for many years at other games and we even went to tournaments, had a sponsor etc. There the well of the guild is priority and you must exclude those who can not keep up with that.
But, to apply those more professional rules to any guilds these days is just nothing I can accept and therefore I stay away from anything guild related in MMOs.

To find a friendly and casual guild without demands, but loyalty to its members seems extremely hard these days. I am sure there are still some out there, also at ESO and I wish them the best of luck!

So no, I don't think guilds are the "bane" as you call it. In theory guilds can be amazing, but many people who run guilds these days have totally forgotten why we created guilds in the first place. Not to give the leader riches, but to give its members a friendly and social environment.

It however is also necessary to say that the gaming companies are at guilt there too. Without all those rewards for activity and numbers, guilds today would probably be in a much better spot. But as soon guilds are only created to make gold, items or to unlock additional bank & tabard slots, the personal component is lost and they become a business.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Xabien wrote: »

Comparing the real world with a game world is completely futile. In the real world, people don't undercut heavily on porches to shift them quickly because they're eating up all of their bag space, or because they're impatient. Businesses price what they can afford to while retaining a profit. If they don't they go out of business. There are no such checks and balances in a game, where loot drops like candy, costs you nothing to obtain and poses no consequences if you give it away at rock bottom prices.

In the real world you don't find porsches in drawers and cupboards, dead skeevers don't drop porsches out of their asses and you certainly don't get awarded porsches every time you do someone a favour.

This is a megaserver, much like GW2, everything BUT the porsche would be drastically under-priced, it'd floor the value of gold and make than shiny porsche all but unattainable ever for anyone coming into the game now, because unlike everything else, the price of the porsche would just sky rocket - if it's rare enough, people will ask ridiculous amounts of money but your chances at earning decent money would've dried up with the prices of everything that isn't a porsche.

The current system in ESO works because the fragmentation keeps the crazies from dropping the value of gold too much, while simultaneously keeping rare items rare, and yet affordable if you save.

Please stop pretending you're an economic wizard who can fix ESO with a few posts. Check out the only other game to have the megaserver auction house you're fighting for and tell me that the above isn't what happened over there. (Spoiler: It is, I've played that game long enough to know that.)

All the best!

First off.

Sorry for not seeing this sooner, I had genuinely missed it.

The points you make about comparing RL economies with a game economy are, of course, valid - no argument there.

However, I will point out that in at least two threads on this subject this last week comparisons to RL economies (that are no better than my own above) have been used to defend the current system.

I've played Wildstar, it has megaservers and an AH, now unless the economy there tanked in the last 5-6 weeks since I stopped playing I see no reason to believe that the Megaserver/AH combination is any more flawed than the current Guild Trader system, in fact because it is significantly more inclusive - everyone can trade - it is far less flawed than the Guild Trade system..

I reject entirely your premise about the GW2 Porsche - because if everyone but the Porsche owner were flat broke then the Porsche owner would need to lower his asking price in order to secure a sale - that's how market forces work - sellers can ONLY sell are prices buyers can afford.

I'm no economic wizard, never claimed I was, but I've been playing MMOs long enough to know that the scaremongering surrounding AH is entirely false.

All The Best

Dre4dwolfb14_ESO

What economy?
No one even uses the current system, everyone just spams "WTS WTB" and never gets a reply lol

ZOS_BradL

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