The Health Regen Tank?

nlantoncub18_ESO

I have a build idea that I want to toss to the forums to see what everyone else thinks. I was recently told that health regen is the most useless stat to buff. When I am told that something isn't viable, I try and find a way to make it viable.

What I am considering is stacking health Regen using the following skills/items/sets (in general these stats are for blue vet 14 items unless otherwise stated):
Orgnum's Scales (5 pieces): +112 health regen and 150% health regen when below 60%, what's not to love.
Hist Bark (4 pieces): +112 health regen, and other side tanking benefits.
v5 health regen food: an additional +435 health regen, well that's cool.
Health regen enchant (gold quality): +64 health regen.
Serpent Stone (and 4 divines armor pieces): +256 health regen
Robust: 130% health regen, normally useless, but not today
Constitution (7 pieces heavy): 128% health regen, solid.

You do a little math and the following results.
2141 health regen between 100% and 60% health (wow...)
3212 health regen between 60% and 1% health (super wow...)

Correct me if I am wrong but this comes close to matching (if not surpassing) HoT's dropped by even well tooled healers.
What does everybody think?

DeLindsay

Health Regen is the most useless Stat in ESO. Even at your listed maximum 3212/2 seconds for Health Regen (which is very impressive) you're going to require a Healer to survive. You also have to give up on other Tank stats like increased Armor/Spell Resistance as well as cost reduction for your own abilities in order to build a high regen set meaning you will take more damage than other Tanks thus require more Healing and you may run out of Magicka/Stamina faster than other Tanks.

Let me put it to you another way. As a NB DPS (Magicka based) my Funnel Health heals Party members to the tone of ~4.5K HPS (compared to your listed maximum of 1.6K HPS) and in Trials I've seen my HPS as high as 10.5K, as a DPS. Actual Healers in Trials can push out over 30K HPS.

It's a nice thought trying to push the envelope of what can be done but sadly Health Regen just isn't viable to Tank anything of merit in ESO at this time.

Xsorus

nlantoncub18_ESO wrote: »

I have a build idea that I want to toss to the forums to see what everyone else thinks. I was recently told that health regen is the most useless stat to buff. When I am told that something isn't viable, I try and find a way to make it viable.

What I am considering is stacking health Regen using the following skills/items/sets (in general these stats are for blue vet 14 items unless otherwise stated):
Orgnum's Scales (5 pieces): +112 health regen and 150% health regen when below 60%, what's not to love.
Hist Bark (4 pieces): +112 health regen, and other side tanking benefits.
v5 health regen food: an additional +435 health regen, well that's cool.
Health regen enchant (gold quality): +64 health regen.
Serpent Stone (and 4 divines armor pieces): +256 health regen
Robust: 130% health regen, normally useless, but not today
Constitution (7 pieces heavy): 128% health regen, solid.

You do a little math and the following results.
2141 health regen between 100% and 60% health (wow...)
3212 health regen between 60% and 1% health (super wow...)

Correct me if I am wrong but this comes close to matching (if not surpassing) HoT's dropped by even well tooled healers.
What does everybody think?

Dont' use 5 piece Orgnum, use multiple health regen 2 set bonuses

I can hit 3400 regen almost full time..

PvE wise its pretty hilarious....I could pull every single mob in Skywatch Hold and tank them down.

cwp303b14_ESO

I tried it out on the pts with a sorc. They have a passive for 20% more health regen with a summoning skill and it was pretty crazy, especially on a sorc who can shield a lot to allow enough time to get back to full health.

For some reason i've always been fascinated with health regen since everyone seems to ignore it in favor of almost anything else. I feel like with enough creativity you should be able to find a unique and effective build.

nlantoncub18_ESO

DeLindsay. ,
Your funnel health heals to the tune of 4.5k hps, wow. That means it heals for 9k every two seconds. So that means your funnel health is hitting for 36k ish right. That is insane, how are you achieving that? No sarcasm intended, that is just really impressive.


xsorusb14_ESO,
What sets give health regen at 2 pieces? Are they dropped sets?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Ley

Combine this with the right skill set and I think it would be pretty solid. I'm gonna keep an eye on this thread.

Wing

i do this on my DK tank and have had great success.

jewelry = 3 footman slotted with stamina cost reduction (regen on jewelry sucks and your still a tank)
1 piece engine guardian
2 piece vampires kiss
2 piece song of lamae
2 piece orgnum
2 piece oblivion foe
full heavy slotted with reinforced +health regen passives
health regen mundus

if you want more regen at a cost I don't feel is worth it
trait divines on everything for 100+ more health regen
enchant health regen on jewelry

DK's also get more health regen (+5%) per draconic power skill on their bar.
+20% regen from dragon blood or potion
+30% in combat from race
+flat number from drink

etc. more can probably be done but there is a start.

-Wing

cwp303b14_ESO

@nlantoncub18_ESO Remember that funnel health heals 2 other players as well so it's not just single target hps.

DeLindsay

nlantoncub18_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay. ,
Your funnel health heals to the tune of 4.5k hps, wow. That means it heals for 9k every two seconds. So that means your funnel health is hitting for 36k ish right. That is insane, how are you achieving that? No sarcasm intended, that is just really impressive.


xsorusb14_ESO,
What sets give health regen at 2 pieces? Are they dropped sets?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

~4.5K HPS is for Party as I stated above, that's 4 targets. And for Trials (if all 11 are within a short range of me) 10.5K+ HPS is reasonable for FunnelBlade builds. Still, the point I was making is even with a very good Health regen (1600 HPS+) you will NOT survive any fight that matters, i.e. Veteran Dungeons, DSA, and Trials without a Healer backing you up. For Solo/Duo it would be a great way to build and probably very efficient. It also wouldn't at all work for PvP, not remotely, due to Healing debuffs and sheer volume of burst damage.

That said, yes, my Funnel Health Crit Heals are often very, VERY high due to NB's higher Crit ceiling. I have seen >3.5K HPS even solo, just using Funnel Health. As for how, Magicka stacking + SD stacking + Damage stacking is how.

EDIT: I should probably mention that my MS in PvE is Tank/Healer with OS DPS, so I certainly have plenty of Tanking experience and I have also tried the Health regen route myself before (not since 1.6 though).

Xsorus

Wing wrote: »

i do this on my DK tank and have had great success.

jewelry = 3 footman slotted with stamina cost reduction (regen on jewelry sucks and your still a tank)
1 piece engine guardian
2 piece vampires kiss
2 piece song of lamae
2 piece orgnum
2 piece oblivion foe
full heavy slotted with reinforced +health regen passives
health regen mundus

if you want more regen at a cost I don't feel is worth it
trait divines on everything for 100+ more health regen
enchant health regen on jewelry

DK's also get more health regen (+5%) per draconic power skill on their bar.
+20% regen from dragon blood or potion
+30% in combat from race
+flat number from drink

etc. more can probably be done but there is a start.

-Wing

This is the setup, I've posted about it before on Tamriel Foundry...

But yea..You can get Regen to silly levels..and most of it is crafted (cept engine)

PvP wise it was pretty interesting as well..But you have like no damage...so it pretty much does nothing in fights.

Wing

oh crap Xsorus didn't mean to try and take cred, I know someone tried it on TF but I lost the thread and had to start from scratch, glad I did so well.

so yup, Credit to Xsorus ^_^

Xsorus

Wing wrote: »

oh crap Xsorus didn't mean to try and take cred, I know someone tried it on TF but I lost the thread and had to start from scratch, glad I did so well.

so yup, Credit to Xsorus ^_^

Its not my build...simply because I think someone has come up with the idea before.

I was just responding because that's exactly the items you need to run the setup.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

Health Regen is the most useless Stat in ESO. Even at your listed maximum 3212/2 seconds for Health Regen (which is very impressive) you're going to require a Healer to survive. You also have to give up on other Tank stats like increased Armor/Spell Resistance as well as cost reduction for your own abilities in order to build a high regen set meaning you will take more damage than other Tanks thus require more Healing and you may run out of Magicka/Stamina faster than other Tanks.

Let me put it to you another way. As a NB DPS (Magicka based) my Funnel Health heals Party members to the tone of ~4.5K HPS (compared to your listed maximum of 1.6K HPS) and in Trials I've seen my HPS as high as 10.5K, as a DPS. Actual Healers in Trials can push out over 30K HPS.

It's a nice thought trying to push the envelope of what can be done but sadly Health Regen just isn't viable to Tank anything of merit in ESO at this time.

Funnel health heals for 25% of the damage done every 2sec for 10sec so to even get 4,5K Hps (unless you were speaking for the 3 party members healed at the same time?) it means you would have to deal 36K dmg with your funnel health to get such impressive numbers on a single target. So you might reconsider your numbers before comparing it with health regen.

Health regen is a very important source of mitigation when tanking. It allows you to have a continuous source of self healing in a fight and the combination of heals from your healers resto staff + health regen and your own mitigation skills is what should make up for the fight. Some combinations of specialised builds, the current "meta", allows to break that rule.

People keep saying health regen is a crap stat because they all think about the current "meta" comps but they also completely forget that if you don't play with those same "meta" comps in mind that health regen is pretty much mandatory if you don't want to rely on a Templar for healing or do not play DK tank.

Having played both "meta" and costum builds effectively, I can ensure you that all classes have the ability to tank in a viable way if you build them accordingly for that role and compensate for their initial weaknesses. And I can tell you for sure, health regen has a very important role for some of those classes. But like any builds, you shouldn't solely focus on health regen as a tank like you shouldn't solely focus on attack weapon/spell damage as a DpS. Finding the right coctail between all the stats that are interesting to your orientation is the way to go.

DeLindsay

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

People keep saying health regen is a crap stat because they all think about the current "meta" comps but they also completely forget that if you don't play with those same "meta" comps in mind that health regen is pretty much mandatory if you don't want to rely on a Templar for healing or do not play DK tank.

I'm a NB Vampire Tank and have almost non-existent Health regen (in the 200's) and I can say for a FACT that I have zero issues Tanking all content even though I'm not a DK. I also Tank with NB and Sorc Healers regularly. So how exactly is it mandatory for me as a NB to spam Health regen in order to Tank? I'm not saying Health regen doesn't help, I'm saying Health regen will NOT allow a Player to Tank any content of significance without a true Healer backing you up and to get upwards of ~3400 Health regen you WILL have to sacrifice other stats like hitting Armor/Spell Resistance cap like I do on my Tank therefore you WILL take more damage than I do on the same encounters, nullifying some if not all of that Health regen.

As for your comment about Funnel Health I will once again point to my saying PARTY HPS and TRIAL HPS, I also even stated how I have achieved pretty high SOLO HPS.

golfer.dub17_ESO

People keep saying health regen is a crap stat because they all think about the current "meta" comps but they also completely forget that if you don't play with those same "meta" comps in mind that health regen is pretty much mandatory if you don't want to rely on a Templar for healing or do not play DK tank.

Health Regen is far from being mandatory in any case. Most healing done in this game is burst healing, simply because HoT's can't out-heal damage done, because health regen isn't going to help when a boss is hitting you for giant bursts of damage, and because as others have said it requires sacrificing armor and other stats.

Also you're basically saying "the people who do the math think it's a crap stat, but if you don't min-max it's not that bad." There's a reason the meta is what it is.

All you're doing is hurting the cause of races that legitimately do need to be balanced.

nlantoncub18_ESO

I agree that it is possible to hit 4.5k party hps with funnel. My mistake. I guess my point is I am not trying to negate the need for a healer, just make their job easier.

So yes you are correct DeLindsay: you do sacrifice some damage mitigation for really high health regen. and if you choose to go health regen food you are also sacrificing important max health. If I am up against a trickle of consistent damage from say a boss with loads of ads, then I think this method is quite viable. If I am facing high single damage hits from, say, a hard hitting boss, then it is true I may be better with the greater damage mitigation/may be more reliant on the party healer.

I guess can we agree that both methods achieve the same end, just in different ways?

Wing

its also useful as a dk in corrosive armor, as you can res a few people if things go bad while your regen heals any damage that your corrosive armor has mitigated. plus armor and spell resist bonuses on armor sets pale compared to simply having reinforced heavy and using a skill to get the major bonus's (Templar rune focus, DK spike armor, Sorc lightning form, etc. etc.) even hist can be replaced with evasion, and footman only looses you out on 1 set of health recovery if you want it.

plus a non imperial tank can easily hit 30k hp without food, if your still getting bursted something is wrong.

is it god mode? not even close.
does it replace a healer? nothing probably ever will.

does it combined with other skills, sets, and abilities still create a good tank? oh yeah.

Domander

Well, I would say not useless, but only impressive when in large numbers.

You also probably don't want to go vampire if you're running high health regen.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Wing wrote: »

its also useful as a dk in corrosive armor, as you can res a few people if things go bad while your regen heals any damage that your corrosive armor has mitigated. plus armor and spell resist bonuses on armor sets pale compared to simply having reinforced heavy and using a skill to get the major bonus's (Templar rune focus, DK spike armor, Sorc lightning form, etc. etc.) even hist can be replaced with evasion, and footman only looses you out on 1 set of health recovery if you want it.

plus a non imperial tank can easily hit 30k hp without food, if your still getting bursted something is wrong.

is it god mode? not even close.
does it replace a healer? nothing probably ever will.

does it combined with other skills, sets, and abilities still create a good tank? oh yeah.

At last someone understanding that health regen isn't a bad stat!

I am currently recovering as much info around every possible ways to increase health regen, max health and armour/spellresist. I will be comparing all those values when I'm done. But with all the things I have already been able to collect, health regen is a very strong contester with Armour/Spellresist and some options are clearly favorable to health regen.

I'll post my math when I'm done still have a lot of information to recover.

Jitterbug

nlantoncub18_ESO wrote: »

When I am told that something isn't viable, I try and find a way to make it viable.

I'm doing the same with my PvP stam sorc :-P

kgold0

Don't the regen stats show how much you heal in combat every 2 seconds? So you'd have to cut your number in half for hps. I could be wrong!

Sukenlihol

Hey tank! Don't waste your time, you need my beautiful healer, Luzelia.. This will always be like this, there is no escape

nlantoncub18_ESO

Wing wrote: »

plus a non imperial tank can easily hit 30k hp without food, if your still getting bursted something is wrong.

I got to be honest Wing (an I am little ashamed to admit it), I easily push 30k armor and 26 spell resist with all of my actives rolling, but I am having real trouble getting 30K health without food. I am hitting around 24k ish right now. What am I missing. I run NB with blue health enchants if that helps.

I still don't get bursted down or one shotted, but I feel like I could be even better.

Maybe I should invest more than 30 points into health... But then I sacrifice versatility. So many decisions.

DeLindsay

nlantoncub18_ESO wrote: »

I got to be honest Wing (an I am little ashamed to admit it), I easily push 30k armor and 26 spell resist with all of my actives rolling, but I am having real trouble getting 30K health without food. I am hitting around 24k ish right now. What am I missing. I run NB with blue health enchants if that helps.

I still don't get bursted down or one shotted, but I feel like I could be even better.

Maybe I should invest more than 30 points into health... But then I sacrifice versatility. So many decisions.

You don't "need" 30K Health to Tank anything in ESO short of a few HM Trial Bosses, and even then it's still not a requirement IF you are hard capped for Armor/Spell Resist which is 32,500. It's assumed that you would reach hard cap with both Minor and Major Wards active, although NB's have no way to gain Minor Spell Resist themselves while Tanking unless you run Resto Staff off-Bar so it's wise to get your Spell Resistance to +/- 27,380 without Major going. I watched a pug Tank (someone in group knew him) Tank all of AA with 21.4K Health in 7/7 Light Armor which wasn't even Tank oriented just because he wanted to do more damage output. The only time he died was when the rest of us died as well, and this was with 1 Templar and 1 NB Healer. He did switch to true Tank gear to hold the Mage's Axes though and had 28K Health or something but was constantly out of Stamina.

Once you start actively Tanking end game content you will realize very quickly that taking less damage and having more resources is the meta for 1.6. My NB Tank is Spell Resist/Armor hard capped with 26-27.5K Health depending on main bar/alt bar with 21K Magicka and 14.5K Stamina. I rarely run out of Stamina but even at 21K Magicka it's a constant battle to manage since the easiest way for a NB to keep up Major Ward is using Refreshing Path every 11 seconds. We then use Mirage for Minor Ward but that's much longer. But even using cost reduction on all 3 Jewelry pcs Magicka is always my sole issue when Tanking. Since 1.6 hit I can survive much longer with the Healer down than I could in 1.5.8, that is until I run out of Magicka. I even have the Master's Sword and it's Heal is ~3K when my Scourge Harvester set procs.

Your 24K Health is plenty fine for all Vet Dungeons, nDSA and most of AA/HR although it might be a bit dodgy on the Mage and the Warrior fights and VDSA. Unless you know your group I doubt anyone would let you Tank SO with 24K, even though it's possible to do so, it's just the stigma attached to SO being the only "real" Raid in ESO atm and so few Guilds have even cleared it so they expect everyone to be in top notch, Meta oriented gear at all times.

Proscar

I am a sorc, and for fun I made a health regen tank. I planned to still have a healer when I made it, but obviously sorcs last alot of emergency buttons or heals, so for us health regen made sense. I stacked 5 piece Orgnum scales, and the rest were 2pc sets. Everything else was as everyone said above, but I also had 2H on second bar and kept rally up for increased regen, and dropped the sanguine altar for 40+ sec of major health regen buff. We also have the 20% passive increase in our daedric summoning line, so I just kept the atronach ultimate on my bar.

Overall, it was alot of fun. I never did attempt it on anything harder than vet dungeons. My health was at 27K, and that was without food (used drinks instead for more regen). I used block cost reduction on all jewelry, and with all my red champion points. Rally, evasion, and thundering presence on at all times, and then just block when you get low for the boost in regen from Orgnum Scales.

You have nothing to lose by trying it out except a bit of gold, so go for it.

Dixa

DeLindsay wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

People keep saying health regen is a crap stat because they all think about the current "meta" comps but they also completely forget that if you don't play with those same "meta" comps in mind that health regen is pretty much mandatory if you don't want to rely on a Templar for healing or do not play DK tank.

I'm a NB Vampire Tank and have almost non-existent Health regen (in the 200's) and I can say for a FACT that I have zero issues Tanking all content even though I'm not a DK. I also Tank with NB and Sorc Healers regularly. So how exactly is it mandatory for me as a NB to spam Health regen in order to Tank? I'm not saying Health regen doesn't help, I'm saying Health regen will NOT allow a Player to Tank any content of significance without a true Healer backing you up and to get upwards of ~3400 Health regen you WILL have to sacrifice other stats like hitting Armor/Spell Resistance cap like I do on my Tank therefore you WILL take more damage than I do on the same encounters, nullifying some if not all of that Health regen.

As for your comment about Funnel Health I will once again point to my saying PARTY HPS and TRIAL HPS, I also even stated how I have achieved pretty high SOLO HPS.

so....not using siphoning strikes?

Nutronic

I run a 26k health sorc tank and I've been told you don't need more than 25 for most content as well. I instead dump a ton of my points into stam/magikca (mostly mag) for shields and extra stam to block. Ideally, once I get to roughly 120 CP I should be able to use my CP for block mitigation and run into few resource problems (even with my "lowish" stam, I rarely if ever have to ask for shards so long as I manage to get in a few HA). Having said that, I want to run more regen because the less I need from the healer, the more flexible I'll be for various groups and comps (like 2 NB healers instead of a 1 templar or something.)

DeLindsay

Dixa wrote: »

so....not using siphoning strikes?

Not for DPS spec anymore but ofc I use SA while Tanking.

Rune_Relic

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

its also useful as a dk in corrosive armor, as you can res a few people if things go bad while your regen heals any damage that your corrosive armor has mitigated. plus armor and spell resist bonuses on armor sets pale compared to simply having reinforced heavy and using a skill to get the major bonus's (Templar rune focus, DK spike armor, Sorc lightning form, etc. etc.) even hist can be replaced with evasion, and footman only looses you out on 1 set of health recovery if you want it.

plus a non imperial tank can easily hit 30k hp without food, if your still getting bursted something is wrong.

is it god mode? not even close.
does it replace a healer? nothing probably ever will.

does it combined with other skills, sets, and abilities still create a good tank? oh yeah.

At last someone understanding that health regen isn't a bad stat!

I am currently recovering as much info around every possible ways to increase health regen, max health and armour/spellresist. I will be comparing all those values when I'm done. But with all the things I have already been able to collect, health regen is a very strong contester with Armour/Spellresist and some options are clearly favorable to health regen.

I'll post my math when I'm done still have a lot of information to recover.

There is some gear that double stacks with 1x 3 pieces rather than need 2x 2 pieces.
Probably want to start with that and see what options are open.

seniden_ESO

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

As for your comment about Funnel Health I will once again point to my saying PARTY HPS and TRIAL HPS, I also even stated how I have achieved pretty high SOLO HPS.

I doubt it.

4.5k hps/4 party members = ~1.13k, which is less than the health regen he'd get stacking it. He'd have more hps than health funnel provides, on himself, active at all times.
If you want to argue, do it with real numbers instead of stuff like "30k HpsZZ11!!"

nlantoncub18_ESO

DeLindsay, you stated that your favorite way to keep major resolve and major ward was to use refreshing path every so often. I agree if you magic is high then the healing is probably worth it, but the duration on shadow barrier is just way way to short for my liking. Why not just run heavy armor and use unstoppable. That is major ward and major resolve for much less strain on your resources. Also Mirage only gives minor resolve not minor ward; which is why I favor double take.

On another note: I am considering splashing in 2 pieces light armor for the spell warding. Is the trade off worth it with only two pieces light (was thinking gloves and belt)? I don't know how much spell resistance you get with only 2 pieces at vr 14.

I have tested my original build (with some minor modifications) on some vet dungeons, and it seems to work really well. If anyone wants a full description of build I would be happy to provide (skill bars, attribute allocation etc).