PVP

Duskruler

Im a v14 DK with lots of pvp experience but last night I fought a v7 DK for 3 or 4 minutes or so and didnt have a chance.
This has discouraged me so much that I dont have the will to log on and play any longer, Is the character balance that bad? did I waist all my time on my toon just to be a gimp? Im totally floored by this.

Junipus

You don't happen to be called 'Dusk' in game?

Observant

This is pretty vague.

What exactly are you looking for out of this thread?

TequilaFire

It can be frustrating, but it comes down to your character build, CP points and skill learned only by hanging in there.
So many make the mistake of thinking if they are higher level that they should be able to defeat a lower level player.
Just move on play and remember their will always be somebody that can kick your behind no matter how good you get.

SHADOW2KK

Duskruler wrote: »

Im a v14 DK with lots of pvp experience but last night I fought a v7 DK for 3 or 4 minutes or so and didnt have a chance.
This has discouraged me so much that I dont have the will to log on and play any longer, Is the character balance that bad? did I waist all my time on my toon just to be a gimp? Im totally floored by this.

Lol?

I can appreciate your obvious shock and trauma here, but let me get this straight, you are gonna quit the game cos you died?

Its war mate, you are gonna kill and be killed all the time. Dont give the dude the satisfaction of knowing (maybe) that you are leaving the game cos of one fight.

Go over the fight in your mind and see what you done wrong, and adapt.

Dont know if this will make you feel better, but on my baby NB around vet 1/4, cant remember exactly when, but I soloed and killed a number of vr14s, and a few of them were DK`s, so it can happen.

Its just a game, give it a day and come back and do some pwning in pvp.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

your tears taste salty

Bashev

@Duskruler
I guess you are using 1h/s. DKs lack DPS with it. Either use a destro staff and magicka build or bow/2h stamina build. Otherwise you wont be able to kill anyone solo.
My advice: fosilize + 2h is a nice combination.

Nermy

I agree with a lot of the post here mate. Live and learn from the experience. Think what skills would have served you better, where you made need to change your attribute points etc. Even do some research on the net for builds and advice, there's loads out there.

But 'Illegitimi non carborundum' as my latin teacher used to say. Live to fight another day!

Lorkhan

lol op
learn to lose, it happens

Duskruler

Bashev wrote: »

@Duskruler
I guess you are using 1h/s. DKs lack DPS with it. Either use a destro staff and magicka build or bow/2h stamina build. Otherwise you wont be able to kill anyone solo.
My advice: fosilize + 2h is a nice combination.

Thanks Basher Yes I am using 1h/s and will try the 2h fosilize.

Oh and this is what I was looking for out of this thread Observant not sarcasm.

Lord_Kreegan

A VR level in PvE is nominally equal to five regular player levels; I'm not sure that balances out the same way in PvP. But, in any case, regardless of level in PvP you're going to die... but it's not like they're cutting off one of your fingers in real life when you die in the game.,, or I wouldn't be typing this because I would have already lost all my fingers and they'd have started on other appendages...

It's a question of class, skill selection, and oftentimes luck, not just level and/or dexterity of your fingers on the keyboard and mouse.

But, in saying that, I will agree that PvP balance in this game in general sucks. Players have been complaining about it forever... However, since any class can assume any role (DPS, tank, healer) the usual sort of balancing algorithms don't really apply and I think ZOS hasn't solved that conundrum yet.

The old rules of thumb for MMORPG development used to be that a DPS class could inflict X amount of damage in some unit of time; a tank could mitigate Y amount of damage in some unit of time; and a healer could heal through Z amount of damage in some unit of time, where X, Y, and Z were determined as necessary to beat the same opponent, but not necessarily in the same amount of time.

By way of comparison, my highest VR character, a Templar with a healing build, would get his butt handed to him in on-level public dungeons while going through Cadwell's silver, but could then out-level the dungeon and go back and easily wipe the mobs solo (since I could almost never find anyone to group with -- a different problem). Again, nominally five regular levels higher than the mobs, so that should be expected...

However, my VR1 DK tank can bubble up in PvE and take on triple-diamond boss mobs easily. She'll take forever to kill the mob, but will lose hardly any health in the process.

I don't think the PvE tanking approach would work all that well in PvP (I use the other skill bar for DPS when she's in Cyrodil), but that's just to emphasize the point. The Templar can't heal through damage in PvP either...

I think ZOS has a long way to go before they achieve any kind of PvP balance per se... but they have bigger problems to solve in Cyrodil right now.

Duskruler

Lorkhan wrote: »

lol op
learn to lose, it happens

I have lost alot but not so bad to half my lvl. Anyway thanks for your words of wisdom you must be a very smart 12 year old.

Merlin13KAGL

You use a VR14 DK to fight a VR7 DK (likely battle leveled to VR12, btw) and you didn't die for 3-4 minutes?

It has to come down to build/gear/skill (choice) differences and possibly CP's to some extent.

Bear in mind, any combination you come up with, won't cover every scenario. You're going to find someone out there that has a combination that can counter yours and/or find the weak spots in your armor.

I suspect this is what happened.

Also, to be honest, in a 3-4 minute 1v1, your timing could have suffered. You can get mentally and physically fatigued quicker than you may think in circumstances such as that.

Rune_Relic

You're doing it all wrong my friend.
1. You need to find the most overpowered bugged armour and weapon sets gated behind the hardest content.
2. Then you need to grind out as many champion points as you can to get stamina/magicka/health and lots of combat bonuses you don't have yet.
3. You need to avoid broken skills and just use the ones that are bugged and give massive damage/armour/shields
4. Beg borrow and steal as much gold as possible to get the best food/drink/potions as they give some crazy stats.

..then you will be golden....no player skill required. Its all about exploiting broken stuff to the max and knowing what stuff is broken and what stuff is OP. I would recommend PTS to find this out if you don't have mates in the know.

/thumbsup

reften

Ability to play the class, ability to use all the skills at your disposal, and just how quick you are with the keyboard and mouse have a MUCH greater impact than your level or equipment.

Plus, there are so many other advantages that could have come into play you. tri-pots, purple food, campaign buffs, ayleid wells, the bonus for taking keeps/resources over and over (forgot what it's called), so many possible buffs.

BTW, I personally would be happy having you in a group, you probably would do better there. The guy/gal you fought might have a 1v1 build, that does terrible in a group setting.

Don't be discouraged. Get in a group in pvp, work as a team...so your not a great 1v1 player....then become a great group player. You'll have more fun that way anyway.

Lionxoft

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You use a VR14 DK to fight a VR7 DK (likely battle leveled to VR12, btw) and you didn't die for 3-4 minutes?

It has to come down to build/gear/skill (choice) differences and possibly CP's to some extent.

Bear in mind, any combination you come up with, won't cover every scenario. You're going to find someone out there that has a combination that can counter yours and/or find the weak spots in your armor.

I suspect this is what happened.

Also, to be honest, in a 3-4 minute 1v1, your timing could have suffered. You can get mentally and physically fatigued quicker than you may think in circumstances such as that.

Don't think battle leveling applies to vr1 and later. My lv11 has better stats than my vr8.

Sharee

EU thornblade, by chance? I just happen to have a v7 DK that's killing v14's

Advice: film your fights. If you have an Nvidia card, use shadow play, it continually films the last 5 mins of your game, and you can hit a key to save it to a file. Then after the fight (win or lose) alt-tab out of the game, and watch the video, slow motion if necessary, to see what exactly happened and why. You can learn a lot about what setup counters what, what abilities are most effective used together etc. I learned many of the game's 'secrets' this way. Turn your defeat into an advantage

Divad Zarn

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Duskruler wrote: »

Im a v14 DK with lots of pvp experience but last night I fought a v7 DK for 3 or 4 minutes or so and didnt have a chance.
This has discouraged me so much that I dont have the will to log on and play any longer, Is the character balance that bad? did I waist all my time on my toon just to be a gimp? Im totally floored by this.

Lol?

I can appreciate your obvious shock and trauma here, but let me get this straight, you are gonna quit the game cos you died?

Its war mate, you are gonna kill and be killed all the time. Dont give the dude the satisfaction of knowing (maybe) that you are leaving the game cos of one fight.

Go over the fight in your mind and see what you done wrong, and adapt.

Dont know if this will make you feel better, but on my baby NB around vet 1/4, cant remember exactly when, but I soloed and killed a number of vr14s, and a few of them were DK`s, so it can happen.

Its just a game, give it a day and come back and do some pwning in pvp.

Read first like like "shock and shaurma".. afk probably need to eat something

P.S. to OP: if u know how to play PvP in other game its not mean that u will know how to play in ALL GAMES around the world as well, ESO have quite different mechanics then any mmo i saw so far.

Merlin13KAGL

Lionxoft wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You use a VR14 DK to fight a VR7 DK (likely battle leveled to VR12, btw) and you didn't die for 3-4 minutes?

It has to come down to build/gear/skill (choice) differences and possibly CP's to some extent.

Bear in mind, any combination you come up with, won't cover every scenario. You're going to find someone out there that has a combination that can counter yours and/or find the weak spots in your armor.

I suspect this is what happened.

Also, to be honest, in a 3-4 minute 1v1, your timing could have suffered. You can get mentally and physically fatigued quicker than you may think in circumstances such as that.

Don't think battle leveling applies to vr1 and later. My lv11 has better stats than my vr8.

@Lionxoft , previously it only leveled up to VR5 (and at L48 I had better stats with it off than with it on, due to the gear I had). Most likley, you turned it off some time ago and have never turned it back on.

Since the recent change to make all enemies VR12 and Battlelevel to VR12, unless your gear is superb or your build very specific, Battle Leveling should still give something of an increase in stats for most V8 and under.

Lionxoft

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You use a VR14 DK to fight a VR7 DK (likely battle leveled to VR12, btw) and you didn't die for 3-4 minutes?

It has to come down to build/gear/skill (choice) differences and possibly CP's to some extent.

Bear in mind, any combination you come up with, won't cover every scenario. You're going to find someone out there that has a combination that can counter yours and/or find the weak spots in your armor.

I suspect this is what happened.

Also, to be honest, in a 3-4 minute 1v1, your timing could have suffered. You can get mentally and physically fatigued quicker than you may think in circumstances such as that.

Don't think battle leveling applies to vr1 and later. My lv11 has better stats than my vr8.

@Lionxoft , previously it only leveled up to VR5 (and at L48 I had better stats with it off than with it on, due to the gear I had). Most likley, you turned it off some time ago and have never turned it back on.

Since the recent change to make all enemies VR12 and Battlelevel to VR12, unless your gear is superb or your build very specific, Battle Leveling should still give something of an increase in stats for most V8 and under.

@Merlin13KAGL I just tested it on a VR5 and battle leveling has no effect on that particular character even with the option toggled on.

Dudis

A well geared and well played VR 1-13 does and should stand a chance vs a VR14. I don't see what the problem is here.

The guy who killed you probably just played better.

Athas24

A 3-4 minute fight sounds like a good time to me, winning or losing is sort of irrelevant at that point. Sounds like you were playing someone worth fighting again. Die, learn, come back try again. Rinse repeat. You'll never beat everyone and a good player can overcome a few stupid stat points gained through a small variance in level. Being V14 does not mean you shouldn't be able to die to someone who is lower in veteran levels, in fact it would be extremely boring if this was the case.

Furthermore, the 2h concept is something many DK's have adapted to for PVP because of its higher damage output compared to sword and board. Being able to weapon swap between the two can compensate during such a lengthy fight for when you need more resources/hp and when you want to dish out more damage. It's a solid recommendation IMO. Best of luck with the new build!

reften

Athas24 wrote: »

A 3-4 minute fight sounds like a good time to me, winning or losing is sort of irrelevant at that point. Sounds like you were playing someone worth fighting again. Die, learn, come back try again. Rinse repeat. You'll never beat everyone and a good player can overcome a few stupid stat points gained through a small variance in level. Being V14 does not mean you shouldn't be able to die to someone who is lower in veteran levels, in fact it would be extremely boring if this was the case.

Furthermore, the 2h concept is something many DK's have adapted to for PVP because of its higher damage output compared to sword and board. Being able to weapon swap between the two can compensate during such a lengthy fight for when you need more resources/hp and when you want to dish out more damage. It's a solid recommendation IMO. Best of luck with the new build!

3-4 minutes is all it takes for you to have a good time? lol, just kidding, great post. And agree, skills with the game so far heavily outweigh your build/level.

Merlin13KAGL

Lionxoft wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You use a VR14 DK to fight a VR7 DK (likely battle leveled to VR12, btw) and you didn't die for 3-4 minutes?

It has to come down to build/gear/skill (choice) differences and possibly CP's to some extent.

Bear in mind, any combination you come up with, won't cover every scenario. You're going to find someone out there that has a combination that can counter yours and/or find the weak spots in your armor.

I suspect this is what happened.

Also, to be honest, in a 3-4 minute 1v1, your timing could have suffered. You can get mentally and physically fatigued quicker than you may think in circumstances such as that.

Don't think battle leveling applies to vr1 and later. My lv11 has better stats than my vr8.

@Lionxoft , previously it only leveled up to VR5 (and at L48 I had better stats with it off than with it on, due to the gear I had). Most likley, you turned it off some time ago and have never turned it back on.

Since the recent change to make all enemies VR12 and Battlelevel to VR12, unless your gear is superb or your build very specific, Battle Leveling should still give something of an increase in stats for most V8 and under.

@Merlin13KAGL I just tested it on a VR5 and battle leveling has no effect on that particular character even with the option toggled on.

@Lionxoft , wow. So (assuming it's working right at lower levels), from L10 to L50 you're the equivalent of VR12, then you hit VR1 and basically lose 11 levels.

Really gotta hand it to them.

Sharee

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You use a VR14 DK to fight a VR7 DK (likely battle leveled to VR12, btw) and you didn't die for 3-4 minutes?

It has to come down to build/gear/skill (choice) differences and possibly CP's to some extent.

Bear in mind, any combination you come up with, won't cover every scenario. You're going to find someone out there that has a combination that can counter yours and/or find the weak spots in your armor.

I suspect this is what happened.

Also, to be honest, in a 3-4 minute 1v1, your timing could have suffered. You can get mentally and physically fatigued quicker than you may think in circumstances such as that.

Don't think battle leveling applies to vr1 and later. My lv11 has better stats than my vr8.

@Lionxoft , previously it only leveled up to VR5 (and at L48 I had better stats with it off than with it on, due to the gear I had). Most likley, you turned it off some time ago and have never turned it back on.

Since the recent change to make all enemies VR12 and Battlelevel to VR12, unless your gear is superb or your build very specific, Battle Leveling should still give something of an increase in stats for most V8 and under.

@Merlin13KAGL I just tested it on a VR5 and battle leveling has no effect on that particular character even with the option toggled on.

@Lionxoft , wow. So (assuming it's working right at lower levels), from L10 to L50 you're the equivalent of VR12, then you hit VR1 and basically lose 11 levels.

Really gotta hand it to them.

It's not really equivalent of vr12. You get some raw stats like increased HP/STA/MAG, but others are very lacking - regen is nonexistent, if you wear a full set of heavy armor your physical resistance is somewhere between light and medium a v12 would have, etc. etc.

Samadhi

Duskruler wrote: »

Im a v14 DK with lots of pvp experience but last night I fought a v7 DK for 3 or 4 minutes or so and didnt have a chance.
This has discouraged me so much that I dont have the will to log on and play any longer, Is the character balance that bad? did I waist all my time on my toon just to be a gimp? Im totally floored by this.

Yes, the balance really is that bad.
When a DK fights a DK, the DK is always guaranteed to win.

Observant

Duskruler wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

@Duskruler
I guess you are using 1h/s. DKs lack DPS with it. Either use a destro staff and magicka build or bow/2h stamina build. Otherwise you wont be able to kill anyone solo.
My advice: fosilize + 2h is a nice combination.

Thanks Basher Yes I am using 1h/s and will try the 2h fosilize.

Oh and this is what I was looking for out of this thread Observant not sarcasm.

Oh hunny, that was a serious question not sarcasm.

technohic

oren74 wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

A 3-4 minute fight sounds like a good time to me, winning or losing is sort of irrelevant at that point. Sounds like you were playing someone worth fighting again. Die, learn, come back try again. Rinse repeat. You'll never beat everyone and a good player can overcome a few stupid stat points gained through a small variance in level. Being V14 does not mean you shouldn't be able to die to someone who is lower in veteran levels, in fact it would be extremely boring if this was the case.

Furthermore, the 2h concept is something many DK's have adapted to for PVP because of its higher damage output compared to sword and board. Being able to weapon swap between the two can compensate during such a lengthy fight for when you need more resources/hp and when you want to dish out more damage. It's a solid recommendation IMO. Best of luck with the new build!

3-4 minutes is all it takes for you to have a good time? lol, just kidding, great post. And agree, skills with the game so far heavily outweigh your build/level.

Hey, as long as you get yours, who cares?

Just remember that feeling after that 4 minutes OP; the next time you're with a girl. Or guy or whatever.