Molag Bal to easy...

Ryan.jennings2rwb17_ESO

Hi All,

This is kind of a rant post due to being super duper disappointed at the main story fights.

The main story line is good, the fights are far to easy.
(SPOILER) I destroyed the Planemeld and defeated Molag Bal as soon as I hit V1, I was using blue level 40 gear. I'm a sorcerer using mostly destro staff & storm magic. The fight was so easy and simple I literally could have buffed up and not moved, just keeping buffs up until the fight was over...

Fighting Molag Bal was like fighting a little kitten with no claws who hasn't yet learned to walk...

My hp only left full once and that was while fighting his titans because I was expecting them to die in 1 hit like the numerous enemies before MB. This was such an un-rewarding fight and I really wish it was harder, I found the world bosses at level 10 harder to solo than the Daedric Prince.

I guess thatll do for now, ill go home and complain about it to my girlfriend (without spoilers) so she knows not to expect too much when she gets there.

Anoteros

When the main antagonist is killed solo I say it's a sign the devs had no idea what the *** they were doing.

Shame you had to endure it, i'm sure they'll fix it in a a year or two.

Xendyn

Those main story bosses used to be much harder. Doshia was a benchmark for how well your characters build was going to do. Mannimarco was a royal pita and Molag took a lot of dancing and forced many a tank to pick up a bow.

Thank the folks that cried OMGIZ2HRDNERF!

Ryan.jennings2rwb17_ESO

yeah I beat Mannimarco and thought, ok that was a nice easy clone / shadow of himself, now for the real thing soon... never came.

Acrolas

When I fought Doshia in Pact during one of the beta weekends, she was invisible. I had no idea what she looked like or how she kept healing or how I would eventually come to hate Harvesters.

So I guess I'm a little surprised that Molag Bal jumps and yells at you instead of turning invisible and making it one mind-*** of a fight. All his other pets and minions have their little field-leveling cheats.

Celless

Mmm, Molag Bal Trial without Akatosh power.
Maybe House of Horror friendly fire mechanics.
Mace (or maul) of Molag Bal loot drop.
Maybe some of dat Cadwell action, mmhmm, you sexy soul shriven knight you, rawr

Robo_Hobo

Anoteros wrote: »

When the main antagonist is killed solo I say it's a sign the devs had no idea what the *** they were doing.

Shame you had to endure it, i'm sure they'll fix it in a a year or two.

What do you mean? It was always intended to be a solo fight, that was the point.

-

Also, I haven't fought Molag Bal again yet but back when I did it about a month after release it was pretty difficult then. I hear a lot of the solo fights, especially in the main storyline and guild storylines, got nerfed pretty bad since then.

Anoteros

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

When the main antagonist is killed solo I say it's a sign the devs had no idea what the *** they were doing.

Shame you had to endure it, i'm sure they'll fix it in a a year or two.

What do you mean? It was always intended to be a solo fight, that was the point.

-

Also, I haven't fought Molag Bal again yet but back when I did it about a month after release it was pretty difficult then. I hear a lot of the solo fights, especially in the main storyline and guild storylines, got nerfed pretty bad since then.

You honestly don't feel that Molag Bal should've been an end game raid instead of a stupid solo quest? Really? O_o
This entire game's 'story' (if you can call it a story) is based on Molag Bal trying to bust into Tamriel yet all we have in the world is a few anchors on a timer, some rando mini anchors again on timers and static in location, very little prevalent danger of invasion in the world and a solo fight against the big boss.

Absolutely half assed and opportunity lost.

Robo_Hobo

Anoteros wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

When the main antagonist is killed solo I say it's a sign the devs had no idea what the *** they were doing.

Shame you had to endure it, i'm sure they'll fix it in a a year or two.

What do you mean? It was always intended to be a solo fight, that was the point.

-

Also, I haven't fought Molag Bal again yet but back when I did it about a month after release it was pretty difficult then. I hear a lot of the solo fights, especially in the main storyline and guild storylines, got nerfed pretty bad since then.

You honestly don't feel that Molag Bal should've been an end game raid instead of a stupid solo quest? Really? O_o
This entire game's 'story' (if you can call it a story) is based on Molag Bal trying to bust into Tamriel yet all we have in the world is a few anchors on a timer, some rando mini anchors again on timers and static in location, very little prevalent danger of invasion in the world and a solo fight against the big boss.

Absolutely half assed and opportunity lost.

Yes, I think it would be a terrible fate for the Daedric prince if he was just some end-game raid boss that respawns and gets killed endlessly for loot, people standing outside his door calling out teams to take him down, looking for tanks and healers and whatnot. Can you imagine? Just a bunch of mortals running around chipping away at his legs or feet? The guy's the god of schemes not some beast people join up to hunt for money and gear.

The only reason he was solo'd was because the Vestige took on divine power from the Amulet of Kings, which basically temporarily made you god-like yourself, and that's not exactly something that can be done to hundreds of people on a repeatable basis, it took a sacrifice as well for the ritual to work in that manner, not to mention. The significance of the sacrifice, the Amulet of Kings, of defeating Molag Bal, and of the Vestige in the first place, would be non-existant if it were just a repeatable raid boss.

But I do think the fight should be rather challenging nonetheless - at the very least, not as simple and easy as the OP presented.

Jackles

Xendyn wrote: »

Those main story bosses used to be much harder. Doshia was a benchmark for how well your characters build was going to do. Mannimarco was a royal pita and Molag took a lot of dancing and forced many a tank to pick up a bow.

Thank the folks that cried OMGIZ2HRDNERF!

Ah I had no idea that they were changed due to complaints.
I remember fighting Molag when I was first playing ESO and had a frustrating time as a squishy sorc until I got a better build going.

Leggi

Killed MB with all my armor broken easily multiple times.
Not a piece of cake: since you have to do smth to eat piece of cake

Sylveria_Relden

While I normally consider speculation of "ease" to be hilarious and subjective, I'd have to agree that I was somewhat disappointed personally when I finally did reach the climactic ending and he was very easy to beat.

Not sure how anyone would go about "balancing" this- because without adding a difficulty scaling slider for each and every client it's near impossible to satisfy everyone. Make it too difficult for everyone, they complain- make it too easy, they complain. It's almost impossible to add scaling difficulty programming in an MMO because of how it affects the coding with everyone else's gameplay, too. (much easier in a single-player offline game in comparison)

What's your suggestion on how to resolve the issue, or do you even have one?

Anoteros

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

When the main antagonist is killed solo I say it's a sign the devs had no idea what the *** they were doing.

Shame you had to endure it, i'm sure they'll fix it in a a year or two.

What do you mean? It was always intended to be a solo fight, that was the point.

-

Also, I haven't fought Molag Bal again yet but back when I did it about a month after release it was pretty difficult then. I hear a lot of the solo fights, especially in the main storyline and guild storylines, got nerfed pretty bad since then.

You honestly don't feel that Molag Bal should've been an end game raid instead of a stupid solo quest? Really? O_o
This entire game's 'story' (if you can call it a story) is based on Molag Bal trying to bust into Tamriel yet all we have in the world is a few anchors on a timer, some rando mini anchors again on timers and static in location, very little prevalent danger of invasion in the world and a solo fight against the big boss.

Absolutely half assed and opportunity lost.

Yes, I think it would be a terrible fate for the Daedric prince if he was just some end-game raid boss that respawns and gets killed endlessly for loot, people standing outside his door calling out teams to take him down, looking for tanks and healers and whatnot. Can you imagine? Just a bunch of mortals running around chipping away at his legs or feet? The guy's the god of schemes not some beast people join up to hunt for money and gear.

The only reason he was solo'd was because the Vestige took on divine power from the Amulet of Kings, which basically temporarily made you god-like yourself, and that's not exactly something that can be done to hundreds of people on a repeatable basis, it took a sacrifice as well for the ritual to work in that manner, not to mention. The significance of the sacrifice, the Amulet of Kings, of defeating Molag Bal, and of the Vestige in the first place, would be non-existant if it were just a repeatable raid boss.

But I do think the fight should be rather challenging nonetheless - at the very least, not as simple and easy as the OP presented.

So following his defeat at our hands we should return to Tamriel with anchors and all that evil crap gone right?

I'd much prefer MB have a bigger impact on the world and over all story than just the main quest which is very very underwhelming.

He deserves to be a raid boss. He can regenerate himself or whatever lore crap they can think of to justify his returning every week. Other mmorpg's do it to their main antagonists (who you usually get to fight a month or two after release) why can't ESO?

This is laziness at it's greatest.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

I s2g we could get so much mileage out of an optional hard mode for solo instances.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Xendyn wrote: »

Doshia was a benchmark for how well your characters build was going to do.!

Rubbish!

Doshia is level 8, there's no way you can "see how well your build is going" with only a handful of of SPs at level 8, your choice of 'build' is so limited as to be almost non-existent.

I won't need to remind you of course that many people had to level 12 or higher in order to beat her, that is a clear indication of a BROKEN fight, not players who need to L2P!

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Anoteros wrote: »

You honestly don't feel that Molag Bal should've been an end game raid.

Absolutely NOT a raid.

Far too many games are ruined by the story's end being in a raid or 'hardmode' group instance, meaning only a small minority of people ever get the pleasure of completing it. ESO didn't need to bre ruined in that way!

AngryNord

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Doshia was a benchmark for how well your characters build was going to do.!

Rubbish!

Doshia is level 8, there's no way you can "see how well your build is going" with only a handful of of SPs at level 8, your choice of 'build' is so limited as to be almost non-existent.

I won't need to remind you of course that many people had to level 12 or higher in order to beat her, that is a clear indication of a BROKEN fight, not players who need to L2P!

I like you

Anoteros

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

You honestly don't feel that Molag Bal should've been an end game raid.

Absolutely NOT a raid.

Far too many games are ruined by the story's end being in a raid or 'hardmode' group instance, meaning only a small minority of people ever get the pleasure of completing it. ESO didn't need to bre ruined in that way!

It's be a whole lot better than the *** fest we have as end game now.

prototypefb

molag bal is easy only because you get granted an imba buff, and it's not that easy for all builds.
if player has not optimized hes build(play as you want) you still can have some trouble.

Dositheus

too.

Kas

i agree. i found him super easy when i first fought him and they they actually LOWERED the difficulty multiple times, because some players were not able to beat him.

I guess the problem is that this "end boss" is blocking progression into most of the game's content and fun. If any player is unable to beat him, he's unable to experience most of ESO.

mlstevens42_ESO

He was a lot harder before live. His spells actually did damage now I can stand there in greens and take little to no damage at all when he tosses his barrage of spells. As I recall even though he had been nerfed previous to going live he was nerfed and then due to huge amounts of complaints after live started nerfed again at least once. For that matter Mannimarco used to be a far more difficult fight also. We won't get into all of the cries of to hard for the little fighter and mages guild quests. The reason they are as they are now is because of the huge outcry. They made sure they were pretty easy because they are solo only quests for the story line. I do hope that eventually they will do some totally optional solo only content. (duo too would be nice) More like doing a dungeon but geared for solo rather then trying to convert dungeons to solo play. This way solo players would have some challenging content also.

For those that suggest a raid....the story would not support a raid. since "YOU"...were the "VESTIGE". I know we all are the vestige but the story suggests we singular are the vestige the special snow flake of the story.

Lord_Kreegan

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Doshia was a benchmark for how well your characters build was going to do.!

Rubbish!

Doshia is level 8, there's no way you can "see how well your build is going" with only a handful of of SPs at level 8, your choice of 'build' is so limited as to be almost non-existent.

I won't need to remind you of course that many people had to level 12 or higher in order to beat her, that is a clear indication of a BROKEN fight, not players who need to L2P!

Agree wholeheartedly.

Doshia was a perfect demonstration of ZOS' lack of understanding of "class balance" and absolute proof that they didn't test their quest encounters. It did NOT prove that the self-styled elitists were elite, although they wanted to believe that (as always); it did prove that the egomaniacs had oversized egos and closed minds... but we already knew that.

At that time (just after release), I had six characters who fought Doshia in the original boss form. Only one had an easy time with her (the character with the ranged AoE build).

If the class a player picked had no AoE at that level (8 or 9 for most players), then is was impossible to consistently destroy the four healing orbs before they reached her in Harvester form... so she healed back up to full. If a player had no ranged capabilities, then is was impossible to consistently destroy the four healing orbs before they reached her in Harvester form... so she healed back up to full.

One can assume ZOS either didn't test the encounter at all or at least didn't test it with non-AoE and non-ranged characters... or the encounter was designed by a jerk and a sadist working in tandem.

One of those things...

How difficult it was to destroy the orbs was also dependent on which of the three zones you were in; in Glenumbra, for instance, it was possible to pull her out of the square room where you first encountered her and kite her to some extent; getting her into the larger outer room made the orbs travel longer distances and gave a non-AoE character a chance... although most of the time she hit her leash and reset back to the starting room. The other zones didn't have that option to kite her.

If you were lucky enough to get a crit before she initially changed form, you could beat her, but usually that just caused her to change form more quickly. If you had AoE, you could beat her.

Otherwise forget it.

Clearly unbalanced.

But that is indicative of the problems in balancing a game to begin with. When there is a lot of class variation, there is going to be a lot of variation in what they can do. My VR DK, for instance, can (and has) solo a triple-triangle world boss just by bubbling up and circle-strafing. I have to turn my brain off in the process because it's such a boring fight. My VR Templar, however, dies at the mere mention of world bosses. Strangely, enough, its heavy armor doesn't seem to do the same thing as the DK's heavy armor; its bubble is like tissue paper compared to the DK's bubble which lasts forever and seems to mitigate 99.99% of all damage; and its damage-dealing ability, even with both using restoration staffs and heavy attacks while they circle-strafe, seems to be minimal.

So, armored the same, using the same weapon, and using the same tactics, one class is "uber" and the other class is pathetic. Yeah, really an L2P scenario, isn't it? Nope, total and complete lack of balance in the class design. The tanking class has no problem mitigating the damage; the healing class can't come even halfway close to healing through it.

So, the solution is to make all boss fights that all players must fight (main story-line quest bosses) stupid, rather than balance the classes. Much easier.

mlstevens42_ESO

After it went live I fought doisha with several different toons she was never all that difficult. Having some sort of aoe was helpful whatever class you chose since most of the trouble was her healing with the orbs. Just a matter of burning her once you figured out how to keep her from healing. I am not saying if you had no aoe you would have an easy time of things.

Most of the time though taking a moment to look at your build and what happens during the fight will show you what went wrong. Some do not want to have to alter anything to complete a fight however and this leads to them suggesting difficulty where there really isn't any. If one is going to do solo encounters having a bit of healing an aoe and making sure you can take a few hits will usually allow you a good chance to survive. Knowing how to block and dodge is also helpful and for goodness sakes don't stand in an enemy aoe. Just simple things which make any encounter easier. These fights while not perfect did teach a few things. Now they do not seem to teach anything can stand there and do nothing to avoid really and still win. Ah well to each their own I guess. (and no I do not consider myself to be anywhere near elite status)

BBSooner

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Doshia was a benchmark for how well your characters build was going to do.!

Rubbish!

Doshia is level 8, there's no way you can "see how well your build is going" with only a handful of of SPs at level 8, your choice of 'build' is so limited as to be almost non-existent.

I won't need to remind you of course that many people had to level 12 or higher in order to beat her, that is a clear indication of a BROKEN fight, not players who need to L2P!

Disagree. Killed her 3 times pre-nerf on level (1 for each alliance). Multiple classes using different builds. It absolutely was a L2P fight, players were expected to finally learn mechanics. The nerf was a case of bads blaming mechanics for being bad.

RedTalon

They where very tough original, but got dumb down due to "Some" having issues sadly

Zershar_Vemod

Molag Bal has ALWAYS been easy.

Ran that last quest with naked (aside form jewelry) due to the armor decay bug at the time and I killed him almost instantly. Hell I held back at times to make the battle feel like something meaningful...

darthbelanb14_ESO

You mean "too" easy.

Arezius

It is too easy yes. I'm a player who spend quite some time working on my build, and I think I've got a good survival spec as a Templar. So the fight was too easy for me, but I'm aware that some player have more difficulty, so I thought maybe the battle was well balanced for the casual player to which it is intended.
But just last week, a friend of mine that has join the game since buy-to-play has just encountered him. This friend is mainly heal in light armor, but has no particular survival spec, she's just a templar doing a bit of this and a bit of that while enjoying the quests. And yet even her found the battle way too easy and disappointing.

Molag Bal is a Daedric prince, buff or not, we should not be able to defeat him that easily. I thought the same recently when I encountered Vaermina, she puts us in a trap and we can get out of it so easily just by fighting one elite. Not very powerful and threatening are they, right ?

My main disappointment during the last main quests is the fact that an npc tell us that there's a big battle going on at the same time, to help us, but we see nothing of that. If we could see how difficult this battle is, and how much it helps us, then I think it could help makes our battle against Molag Bal more meaningful, and we could understand more why we are able to defeat him that easily.
I know Frodo was not aware of the battle going on at the same time and why Sauron was not watching him, but the readers/watchers know that this is happening and how difficult it is.

Also, I know I say it a lot, but it's an MMO, so knowing that we are defeating this menace not alone, but with a big effort of everyone involve would be awesome.

We're not crying just for the sake of doing it. But this final fight has the potential to be much more epic, and could give us something to remember and talk about, but right now it's not, and it's a real shame We are waiting for this fight for nearly 50 levels, to just fight a normal mob with slightly more health point

Lord Xanhorn

Uhh the proper spelling is...It's far two easy. Geesh get it right.