The benefit of leveling certain skills

Valymer

That's a lot of exp required to gain a mere 1.2% decrease in stamina cost...seems kinda pointless?

nerevarine1138

The I-IV levels of a skill aren't supposed to make it massively more effective, especially once you've already morphed it. The intention is for those additional levels to make skills that you use more often just a little bit better for you.

Valymer

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The I-IV levels of a skill aren't supposed to make it massively more effective, especially once you've already morphed it. The intention is for those additional levels to make skills that you use more often just a little bit better for you.

"just a little bit better"

That's a contender for understatement of the year...

nerevarine1138

Valymer wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The I-IV levels of a skill aren't supposed to make it massively more effective, especially once you've already morphed it. The intention is for those additional levels to make skills that you use more often just a little bit better for you.

"just a little bit better"

That's a contender for understatement of the year...

OK, so don't level them.

Did that solve your "problem" for you?

Valymer

It would make more sense if each level unlocked part of the ability. For example:

Level 1 gave only damage reduction
Level 2 gave damage reduction and health regen
Level 3 gave additional damage reduction against undead
Level 4 reduce the stamina cost (the entire range of cost reduction that currently exists from I-IV, all at once)

Valymer

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The I-IV levels of a skill aren't supposed to make it massively more effective, especially once you've already morphed it. The intention is for those additional levels to make skills that you use more often just a little bit better for you.

"just a little bit better"

That's a contender for understatement of the year...

OK, so don't level them.

Did that solve your "problem" for you?

I don't remember stating anywhere that I had a "problem." Just because I make a comment about something doesn't mean that it troubles me.

Fizzlewizzle

With the new buff system a lot of skills lots their progression.

In the past you would gain a few more percentages of skill effect bonuses, with the new buff system this became impossible since buffs are set at a number.

A nice example is Elusive Mist where rank 1 gave around 20% movement speed and rank 4 gave over 40%. Now you get 40% at rank 1 and it stays that even when it levels.
I made a topic about this "problem" (add more buffs so skills could rank up/ actually change when you morphed them), but i didn't get much response on that topic (yet).

THIS topic.

Valymer

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

With the new buff system a lot of skills lots their progression.

In the past you would gain a few more percentages of skill effect bonuses, with the new buff system this became impossible since buffs are set at a number.

A nice example is Elusive Mist where rank 1 gave around 20% movement speed and rank 1 gave over 40%. Now you get 40% at rank 1 and it stays that even when it levels.
I made a topic about this "problem" (add more buffs so skills could rank up/ actually change when you morphed them), but i didn't get much response on that topic (yet).

THIS topic.

Oh, I didn't see that thread. I couldn't remember how it was before this new buff system, but that makes a lot of sense.

It's not that it's hard to level them up, it just seems like it would feel more rewarding if they actually got more powerful. Or got significant reductions in cost or cast time or something.

Haqikah

Originally TESO was primary about storytelling; skills and items were secundary to exploration and a good story. However in time TESO is becoming more and more a mainstream MMO, where abilitiy-level and items (level/quality) are becoming more important.
This is not unexpected though, as most MMO's have a system revolving around the level and item-treadmill. Do not forget that TESO is the first MMO of Zenimax.

The modest improvement while leveling skills is an example of this legacy. However the modest increases do - I feel - quite nicely add-up.

I hope that TESO finds a good balancing between a more story and more item driven MMO and keeps its foundation in the storytelling.

Valymer

Haqikah wrote: »

Originally TESO was primary about storytelling; skills and items were secundary to exploration and a good story. However in time TESO is becoming more and more a mainstream MMO, where abilitiy-level and items (level/quality) are becoming more important.
This is not unexpected though, as most MMO's have a system revolving around the level and item-treadmill. Do not forget that TESO is the first MMO of Zenimax.

The modest improvement while leveling skills is an example of this legacy. However the modest increases do - I feel - quite nicely add-up.

I hope that TESO finds a good balancing between a more story and more item driven MMO and keeps its foundation in the storytelling.

Well, I'm not sure how switching the staging of the bonuses up a little bit would hurt all that much, considering that the levels already exist. I do understand your point though. But I was under the impression that the core gameplay of all TES games were about leveling up a character to get increasingly more powerful, no?

And the difference between skill level 1 and level 4 isn't that bad, I agree. It's going from one level to the very next one that just feels somewhat...lacking. If the gains are going to be so tiny, I'd rather they just do away with the morphed ability levels altogether and just have a single level once you morph it.

Haqikah

"Valymer wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure how switching the staging of the bonuses up a little bit would hurt all that much, considering that the levels already exist. I do understand your point though. But I was under the impression that the core gameplay of all TES games were about leveling up a character to get increasingly more powerful, no?

I agree that TES games are about leveling up a character and getting more powerful. However in a single player game this is easy and does not need to be balanced; in a MMO - especially one containing some kind of competitive gaming - this is far more tricky as balance is everything.
Perhaps one of the bigger mistakes of ZOS was to make the trials competitive. PvP is by its very nature competitive.

"Valymer wrote: »

And the difference between skill level 1 and level 4 isn't that bad, I agree. It's going from one level to the very next one that just feels somewhat...lacking. If the gains are going to be so tiny, I'd rather they just do away with the morphed ability levels altogether and just have a single level once you morph it.

Hmm, that's food for thought! I can imagine the current ability levels are there to give a player a sense of progress and accomplishment, even though the actual bonus is very modest.

I have no clue how complex it would be for ZOS to make the ability bonusses more significant while keeping it all (more or less) balanced. It seems you have me convinced @Valymer !

Valymer

Haqikah wrote: »

"Valymer wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure how switching the staging of the bonuses up a little bit would hurt all that much, considering that the levels already exist. I do understand your point though. But I was under the impression that the core gameplay of all TES games were about leveling up a character to get increasingly more powerful, no?

I agree that TES games are about leveling up a character and getting more powerful. However in a single player game this is easy and does not need to be balanced; in a MMO - especially one containing some kind of competitive gaming - this is far more tricky as balance is everything.
Perhaps one of the bigger mistakes of ZOS was to make the trials competitive. PvP is by its very nature competitive.

"Valymer wrote: »

And the difference between skill level 1 and level 4 isn't that bad, I agree. It's going from one level to the very next one that just feels somewhat...lacking. If the gains are going to be so tiny, I'd rather they just do away with the morphed ability levels altogether and just have a single level once you morph it.

Hmm, that's food for thought! I can imagine the current ability levels are there to give a player a sense of progress and accomplishment, even though the actual bonus is very modest.

I have no clue how complex it would be for ZOS to make the ability bonusses more significant while keeping it all (more or less) balanced. It seems you have me convinced @Valymer !

Well my idea was to break the bonuses up and give you one per level or something like that, but that doesn't work for skills that only do one thing. Plus the new buff system kinda throws a wrench in the works as @Fizzlewizzle mentioned above.

I really don't know how to fix it either, honestly. It isn't a huge deal, anyway, just something I noticed when I leveled up Ring of Pres