Dark Flare proc chance

BugCollector

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

danno8

Templars: Yes Please!

Non-Templars: Templars are fine.

danno8

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

It's also hardly used in PvP for the same reasons. If the cast time isn't enough of a tell, the ball of flame leaping straight into the air from your fingertips makes up for it.

It can hit pretty hard. Mine shows as over 6k so around 9k crit. But so hard to make effective.

Jeremy

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

I love this spell and use it all the time in PvE.

I'm not opposed to your idea. But I do take issue with the way you frame it - because it's a powerful spell in its own right and doesn't need any buffs to make it useful. So I guess what I am saying is I don't understand why this spell would have so much hate. The cast time isn't that long - and its cool watching my Templar charge it.

grimsfield

danno816_ESO wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

It's also hardly used in PvP for the same reasons. If the cast time isn't enough of a tell, the ball of flame leaping straight into the air from your fingertips makes up for it.

It can hit pretty hard. Mine shows as over 6k so around 9k crit. But so hard to make effective.

Yes, it is very easy to dodge it unless the person is just completely spamming the thing or the target is just completely unaware of whats going on. And considering how many people have dodge roll builds right now.. well its pretty much useless.

danno8

Jeremy wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

I love this spell and use it all the time in PvE.

I'm not opposed to your idea. But I do take issue with the way you frame it - because it's a powerful spell in its own right and doesn't need any buffs to make it useful. So I guess what I am saying is I don't understand why this spell would have so much hate. The cast time isn't that long - and its cool watching my Templar charge it.

The cast time is 1.1 and the travel time is another, what, around 1-2 seconds depending on distance? So 2-3 seconds per hit. That brings even a 7k hit down to 2.2k-3.5k dps.

Just comparing it to other spells like Crystal Fragments or even good ol' Crushing Shock makes it lackluster.

eliisra

Jeremy wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

I love this spell and use it all the time in PvE.

I'm not opposed to your idea. But I do take issue with the way you frame it - because it's a powerful spell in its own right and doesn't need any buffs to make it useful. So I guess what I am saying is I don't understand why this spell would have so much hate. The cast time isn't that long - and its cool watching my Templar charge it.

Please tell me how it's useful in PvE? It's a major dps loss if you're actually dps'ing, period. Don't touch it. It's equally useless if you tank or heal and need to help with off-dps, you cant even light or medium weave it since it cancels the empower buff. It's always better to grab a destro staff or even mash Puncturing Strikes.

Dark Flare is also bad in PvP. Anything that only deals moderate dmg, with a casting time is going to be lacklustre. It will be reflected, dodged or you be cc'ed while casting. Skills has to be instant or un-interruptible + hit hard.

I know it's fun to Flare here and there out on the landscape. I think so to. But what ever skills we use when solo-questing, grinding, delve mashing, Dolmens and so on in PvE is sort of irrelevant in this discussion. All skills are god-mode and powerful when you demolish the nerfed landscape. It's so easy that you can slot skills based on your favourite colour and run barehanded and be like "oh my knuckles are so powerful".

Curragraigue

I use dark flare all the time in PvP and it gets reflected less than 1% of the time for me mainly because I use it as a support spell for group fights and not as a 1v1 spell. The benefit of dark flare is the debuff splash and not the damage which others have said is not comparable to other spells. If I was going to change anything it would be the range I'll usually get hit by other players range attacks before I can get in range to fire it and as a support spell I need to be at the back and not the front of fights.

This is about the fourth or fifth post in the last few weeks I've seen from you OP referring to the Dark Flare skill. Can we please just stick to one post rather than spamming a topic?

BugCollector

Curragraigue wrote: »

This is about the fourth or fifth post in the last few weeks I've seen from you OP referring to the Dark Flare skill. Can we please just stick to one post rather than spamming a topic?

I'll keep making these threads until the devs react to it. Sorcerers get what they wanted, but Templars are still left in the dark.

CP5

Curragraigue wrote: »

I use dark flare all the time in PvP and it gets reflected less than 1% of the time for me mainly because I use it as a support spell for group fights and not as a 1v1 spell. The benefit of dark flare is the debuff splash and not the damage which others have said is not comparable to other spells. If I was going to change anything it would be the range I'll usually get hit by other players range attacks before I can get in range to fire it and as a support spell I need to be at the back and not the front of fights.

This is about the fourth or fifth post in the last few weeks I've seen from you OP referring to the Dark Flare skill. Can we please just stick to one post rather than spamming a topic?

This is exactly why I use the skill. A ranged, aoe major healing debuff is powerful. The time it takes reach its target gives me the ability to spam it on one target, then have that target run around all the members of their group, debuffing a good number of them. This skill, to me, is a utility one, not a dps spam skill. If you want the instant cast you would likely give up the aoe healing debuff, the buff for your next attack, or both for some extra damage. I personally, wouldn't be a fan of that change.

timidobserver

Delete Solar Barrage and add a dps focused variation of darkflare without the healing reduction in it's place.

Curragraigue

Personally I think it is puncturing sweep that needs the change. It is hard to hit anyone that has any skill in PvP with it and giving a cc immunity to people in PvP and mobs in PvE that have been hit makes it worthless now. I'd like to see it changed to a one hit health return skill like burning embers rather than a long hard to direct channel as it currently is.

Currently Temps don't really have the bread and butter skill like DKs for a one hit damage and DoT skill. I was fine with puncturing sweep before when it had the cc applied with each hit, it wasn't great in PvP but it served a purpose in both PvE and PvP but now Temps don't really have an easy to use class skill for easy to apply quick damage on offense.

technohic

Curragraigue wrote: »

Personally I think it is puncturing sweep that needs the change. It is hard to hit anyone that has any skill in PvP with it and giving a cc immunity to people in PvP and mobs in PvE that have been hit makes it worthless now. I'd like to see it changed to a one hit health return skill like burning embers rather than a long hard to direct channel as it currently is.

Currently Temps don't really have the bread and butter skill like DKs for a one hit damage and DoT skill. I was fine with puncturing sweep before when it had the cc applied with each hit, it wasn't great in PvP but it served a purpose in both PvE and PvP but now Temps don't really have an easy to use class skill for easy to apply quick damage on offense.

I disagree that it's worthless or hard to hit with in pvp but I do like the idea of making it a single hit. Or maybe not. Think each strike depletes a blockers stam.

At any rate I enjoy it as is but could do without the KB.

Curragraigue

Worthless may be a bit of an overreaction but if you are only hitting people with 1-2 hits rather than the full channel then they can get a cc immunity for very little damage which in my book is a win for them.

Rylana

eliisra wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

I love this spell and use it all the time in PvE.

I'm not opposed to your idea. But I do take issue with the way you frame it - because it's a powerful spell in its own right and doesn't need any buffs to make it useful. So I guess what I am saying is I don't understand why this spell would have so much hate. The cast time isn't that long - and its cool watching my Templar charge it.

Please tell me how it's useful in PvE? It's a major dps loss if you're actually dps'ing, period. Don't touch it. It's equally useless if you tank or heal and need to help with off-dps, you cant even light or medium weave it since it cancels the empower buff. It's always better to grab a destro staff or even mash Puncturing Strikes.

Dark Flare is also bad in PvP. Anything that only deals moderate dmg, with a casting time is going to be lacklustre. It will be reflected, dodged or you be cc'ed while casting. Skills has to be instant or un-interruptible + hit hard.

I know it's fun to Flare here and there out on the landscape. I think so to. But what ever skills we use when solo-questing, grinding, delve mashing, Dolmens and so on in PvE is sort of irrelevant in this discussion. All skills are god-mode and powerful when you demolish the nerfed landscape. It's so easy that you can slot skills based on your favourite colour and run barehanded and be like "oh my knuckles are so powerful".

Clearly you have no idea what a strong healcut can do to a PvE boss/healer or a PvP player if youve never used it at the right time under the right circumstances.

One dark flare every 20 seconds on Bogdan the Nightflame, for example, completely nullifies the need to kill the white dudes, and reduces the TTK for your DPS guys by quite a lot, ending that instance very quickly. The same effect can be achieved by one bow user slotting lethal arrow. Ive watched that boss on v12 hard mode die in literally 90 seconds with 2 10k+ DPS casters + myself with a couple even spaced flares. Thats less than the standard 120 second time for a combined 20k dps output. Why does it work? Because the boss isnt regenerating health, DPS never has to slow down, and its less placement/movement pressure on everyone because the boss goes through his three jumps before he even pops a second round of fireballs for each stage. Realistically you can even ignore the shadow fear tendrils because he clears them 10 seconds after they spawn.

In PvP, darkflare absolutely destroys healers and tanks. Either by directly cutting their self healing in a pinch, or forcing them to cleanse a lot more often than they can support.

Its a pressure/strategic skill, never meant to have been raw DPS. Its how you synergize abilities together that makes the difference.

Soris

@Rylana
Pretty much agree with you that it's a strategic skill rather than raw DPS. But, I can't deny it's a lackluster skill. For me, it has almost no use in any competive 1v1 duels or solo roaming. It's more like a trouble maker for you rather than your opponent. Maybe good for group play when you use it on targets who distracted by your mates or in 100% defansive stance. Like snipe..

But you gonna be primary target after using that just like snipers. Any good group/loner will dodge the spell and focus on you immediately. You never gonna spam it all day except you are on a wall or have mates to guard your ass. Thus It's perfect for newbies or people who like to sit at back line behind his teammates and spam it from safe distance. It's boring as hell and cheesy gameplay for me.

IMO it could have re-designed for better use. Some interesting one, rather than just sit & spam skill.. Anything that melee guys(or anyone) could use it in the hearth of the battle without having to cast it for 1.1 seconds of eternity. Ain't nobody got time for that. Proc chance suits very well for this purpose and prevents one button mashing in some way like it did on crystal fragments.

Video related ^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k

edit: typo

technohic

^ Solar barrage could be used for an instant version. Pretty much like it us but give it the range ability and damage and get rid of that freaking cool down. No heal debuff though.

danno8

technohic wrote: »

^ Solar barrage could be used for an instant version. Pretty much like it us but give it the range ability and damage and get rid of that freaking cool down. No heal debuff though.

I agree. Solar Barrage...I never ever ever see anyone using it, I tried it myself last year and it just has nothing to offer, AND the global cooldown after using it...

timidobserver

danno816_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

^ Solar barrage could be used for an instant version. Pretty much like it us but give it the range ability and damage and get rid of that freaking cool down. No heal debuff though.

I agree. Solar Barrage...I never ever ever see anyone using it, I tried it myself last year and it just has nothing to offer, AND the global cooldown after using it...

Solar Barrage is utterly useless atm. It gives you empower, but that empower only applies against one target. It also has a longer animation than Impulse and costs more.

Imdrefan

I was glad that they took away the buff to next hit and made it into YOUR next hit, that makes a huge difference.

I solo in pvp often and I run Dark flare as my main dps ability and on my off bar I run defensive posture and it works very well for me. If you specialize your build for it, it's really strong. Between entropy buff, might of the guild giving major empower and dark flare giving major empower to itself I can get it to crit for 10k with bad gear and not fully dmg speced.


I get interrupted often having my two main abilities as channeled skills, but once I CC break I can spam to my hearts content to get them to execute range and keep pressure up with radiant oppression.

Arunei

I use Dark Flare all the time in PvE. You realize Templars have stuns and CC as well, right? Just make use of a stun or something and then fire off your Flare. PvE enemies aren't going to dodge roll or whatever to avoid it, and you keep them rooted while casting it (not to mention you can keep moving while casting) to avoid taking a hit if they come off stun before you fire it. And if you're in a group even better, since you're not the only one dealing damage and your group members can fill in the damage you could have dealt if you hadn't cast it.

In PvP, obviously it's not going to be much use in smaller groups, but then not every skill is viable 100% of the time, so saying this makes Dark Flare completely worthless in PvP is stupid. In much larger groups, such as raids or battles over Keeps/resources, no one is going to be able to pay attention to EVERY SINGLE THING going on around them. They're not going to be able to dodge EVERY SINGLE ATTACK. In general you can hang back and spam Dark Flare, and only people immediately near you are going to notice your casting it or notice the fire coming down in time to dodge.

I wouldn't mind it being instant cast but still have travel time, or hit automatically but still have that cast time. The length of time it takes to fully cast and hit the target could use some tweaking, but don't complain that' it's completely useless because you actually have to use strategy to make the best use of it and can't just spam the hell out of it.

Attorneyatlawl

danno816_ESO wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

It's also hardly used in PvP for the same reasons. If the cast time isn't enough of a tell, the ball of flame leaping straight into the air from your fingertips makes up for it.

It can hit pretty hard. Mine shows as over 6k so around 9k crit. But so hard to make effective.

Hardly different from sorcs casting crystal shard, and the flare gives a much more useful heal debuff rather than a stun that is done immediately if they aren't already immune. You can't break free a heal debuff, and you should have disease to use on top of it which makes it nasty unless they're actively purging. Time your abilities so they land, rather than timing them when you wish you could but know it's going to be blocked. A good example being say after you've landed a spear . It's also flame damage which has many ways to augment it and/or augment it alongside other flame spells feasibly, compared to shards as magic damage.

Empower is also a big deal, just don't weave for that one hit, just as sorcs or any other class does when using Entropy for the spell damage buff and automatic Empower on their next cast.

As to the idea of deleting solar barrage, it used to make the next hit on affected enemies do 20% more from any source. Did they turn it into a plain empower buff that somehow only boosts damage on one target with your next spell? I will check but I was under the impression the empower didn't just affect your cast on one target next time you cast a spell, at this point, but rather anyone hit by your next cast as it is fully decoupled from enemies and is now a selfbuff.

Having a class line skill similar to impulse without needing a destro staff and gaining the empower on your next spell isn't a bad skill .

Attorneyatlawl

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

I love this spell and use it all the time in PvE.

I'm not opposed to your idea. But I do take issue with the way you frame it - because it's a powerful spell in its own right and doesn't need any buffs to make it useful. So I guess what I am saying is I don't understand why this spell would have so much hate. The cast time isn't that long - and its cool watching my Templar charge it.

The cast time is 1.1 and the travel time is another, what, around 1-2 seconds depending on distance? So 2-3 seconds per hit. That brings even a 7k hit down to 2.2k-3.5k dps.

Just comparing it to other spells like Crystal Fragments or even good ol' Crushing Shock makes it lackluster.

A slightly longer travel time doesn't make a spell bad, it just is different. Personally I prefer travel time spells because it allows you to backload burst in pvp more easily. It's immediately obvious to most people, so I was surprised to see someone commenting on various travel time speeds as somehow making a given spell awesome or gimped.

Example: cast dark flare, punch reflective light instant after, then punch crushing shock. All three will land within less than half a second from each other which makes it into a pretty solid combo, debuffing their heals, snaring them, dot'ing them, and interrupting them plus usually an extra elemental effect or two from the crushing shock. Long story short, burst is king in pvp, cc is queen. Sustained single target dps is almost a non factor, but sustained aoe can be useful to suppress and pressure enemy healers in their groups.

timidobserver

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

This spell is hardly used in PvE because of its slow travel time and cast time. A solution to this would be to give it a proc chance just like Crystal Fragments has.

Discuss!

It's also hardly used in PvP for the same reasons. If the cast time isn't enough of a tell, the ball of flame leaping straight into the air from your fingertips makes up for it.

It can hit pretty hard. Mine shows as over 6k so around 9k crit. But so hard to make effective.

Hardly different from sorcs casting crystal shard, and the flare gives a much more useful heal debuff rather than a stun that is done immediately if they aren't already immune. You can't break free a heal debuff, and you should have disease to use on top of it which makes it nasty unless they're actively purging. Time your abilities so they land, rather than timing them when you wish you could but know it's going to be blocked. A good example being say after you've landed a spear . It's also flame damage which has many ways to augment it and/or augment it alongside other flame spells feasibly, compared to shards as magic damage.

Empower is also a big deal, just don't weave for that one hit, just as sorcs or any other class does when using Entropy for the spell damage buff and automatic Empower on their next cast.

As to the idea of deleting solar barrage, it used to make the next hit on affected enemies do 20% more from any source. Did they turn it into a plain empower buff that somehow only boosts damage on one target with your next spell? I will check but I was under the impression the empower didn't just affect your cast on one target next time you cast a spell, at this point, but rather anyone hit by your next cast as it is fully decoupled from enemies and is now a selfbuff.

Having a class line skill similar to impulse without needing a destro staff and gaining the empower on your next spell isn't a bad skill .

I tested it rather thoroughly, and it only works on one target if you use an AoE while you have empower. That makes it a pretty useless buff for an AoE skill.

Attorneyatlawl

Thanks for the clarification @timidobserver . I agree that it's not as desirable, then, although not needing a staff for it is still a bonus and while the empower can be burnt on a singletarget skill technically, it isn't of anywhere near as much practical use as it used to be then.

technohic

Does it still only boost the first hit of jabs as well?

Attorneyatlawl

technohic wrote: »

Does it still only boost the first hit of jabs as well?

That's almost certainly a "yes", since it does that with crushing shock, boosting only the first of the three hits. I'll log in my baby Templar and check in a minute, then edit back .

EDIT: Nope, it doesn't apply it to puncturing sweep (the heal morph) at all, including the first hit. It does NOT consume the buff, however... for example, you can hit someone with an ability granting Empower, then jabs them, then hit them with another skill after but within the 5 second buff duration and that last skill will still gain the 20% extra damage. (Tested with Solar Barrage, Puncturing Sweep, and Reflective Light a few minutes ago.)

timidobserver

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification @timidobserver . I agree that it's not as desirable, then, although not needing a staff for it is still a bonus and while the empower can be burnt on a singletarget skill technically, it isn't of anywhere near as much practical use as it used to be then.

If you want to test it yourself make sure to calculcate illuminate into the picture. Solar Barrage will activate Illuminate so you'll see a slight damage buff on the next attack after the first one. However, if you keep it up, you'll see that only one target gets the actual 20% boost.

BugCollector

I see some people are fond of Dark Flare. I do like the suggestion to make Solar Barrage an instant cast, non debuff, non empower version of Dark flare.

Name: Fast Flare

Attorneyatlawl

timidobserver wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification @timidobserver . I agree that it's not as desirable, then, although not needing a staff for it is still a bonus and while the empower can be burnt on a singletarget skill technically, it isn't of anywhere near as much practical use as it used to be then.

If you want to test it yourself make sure to calculcate illuminate into the picture. Solar Barrage will activate Illuminate so you'll see a slight damage buff on the next attack after the first one. However, if you keep it up, you'll see that only one target gets the actual 20% boost.

Yar, I did . Thanks for the point-out, though, as that could be a catch for some people.

cazlonb16_ESO

BugCollector wrote: »

I see some people are fond of Dark Flare. I do like the suggestion to make Solar Barrage an instant cast, non debuff, non empower version of Dark flare.

Name: Fast Flare

The actual problem with Dark Flare is not the cast time but the travel time and mortar mechanics. Landing it is virtually impossible in the current PvP environment - Unfortunately almost all Templar class skills have some delay, travel time, cast time, other hoop to jump through, or any combination thereof.

Ever wonder why the talk of the "OPlar" completely died down within hours after 1.6 went live ? I don't...