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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

Auto blocking and auto CC break programs? (HAXorz!)

Milky
Milky
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Currently I have been testing a suspicion of mine. I have noticed, at least on thornblade campaign, that a striking number of EP players are running some sort of program or add-on to assist them in blocking and CC breaking. At first I thought it was just because of the obvious incoming stun from shield charge, so I tested it with other skills.

One skill I tried out was obsidian shard. When I encountered a player that I suspected, I would focus them in every engagement to test. I found that these people were able to miraculously block CC skills (and only CC skills, they weren't blocking other attacks) that would hit them from BEHIND. I tested on these people from all types of ranges as well, and found that they could successfully block the CC every, single, time, regardless or range, angle, or their current field of view. I even tried it from stealth (harder to test with my DK) and while I was only able to test it a few times, I received the same results, inconclusive... but worth mentioning.

My other finding was that some people are able to CC break the exact instant they are hit with a CC that hits them blindly. They have no awareness of this skill that is going to hit them in the back, yet they amazingly CC break it the millisecond it lands.

I'm curious if other people have experienced this, and if it's isolated to only one guild group or not. I honestly don't remember player names or what guild it might be.

  • xDOVAHKIINx
    xDOVAHKIINx
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    Post a video, because to me it just sounds like game mechanics.
    "According to most of the people on these forums, every organized 16 man guild group is a lagblobbing pulsespamming zerg."-Fmonk
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
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    As veteran PvP player who has been consistently accused of (and even wrongly banned) for "Hacking" I can say that you are most likely encountering another PvP player who has extremely quick subconscious reaction times and is virtually impossible to surprise.

    Just because their characters looks to be at rest and unaware doesn't mean they are. I can't remember the last time someone shield charged me any knocked me down without me hitting my block key first. There is a hesitation that happens the moment any charge action is going to occur. The same with snipe stuns or any CC.The moment I lose control of my character, without thought I CC break, Roll, Tri-stat pot and Bolt directly towards whatever threat is coming at me.

    I'm sure from your side it seems like they must be hacking but it really is unlikely if you think about it. I present the same argument to those who have accused me of "Auto-roll-dodging" and other such nonsense. Any form of "hack" or program that is controlling your character will far more often do more harm than good. You wouldn't want to dodge roll every ability, you don't want to always break free (especially in the case of streak etc), and you don't want to automatically block. It is totally impossible for any program to automatically do these things for you during the correct situations without also doing them in the worse situations.

    Just admire that person's skill and learn to emulate them and you'll be a better person for it.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
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  • Milky
    Milky
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    Ezareth wrote: »
    As veteran PvP player who has been consistently accused of (and even wrongly banned) for "Hacking" I can say that you are most likely encountering another PvP player who has extremely quick subconscious reaction times and is virtually impossible to surprise.

    Just because their characters looks to be at rest and unaware doesn't mean they are. I can't remember the last time someone shield charged me any knocked me down without me hitting my block key first. There is a hesitation that happens the moment any charge action is going to occur. The same with snipe stuns or any CC.The moment I lose control of my character, without thought I CC break, Roll, Tri-stat pot and Bolt directly towards whatever threat is coming at me.

    I'm sure from your side it seems like they must be hacking but it really is unlikely if you think about it. I present the same argument to those who have accused me of "Auto-roll-dodging" and other such nonsense. Any form of "hack" or program that is controlling your character will far more often do more harm than good. You wouldn't want to dodge roll every ability, you don't want to always break free (especially in the case of streak etc), and you don't want to automatically block. It is totally impossible for any program to automatically do these things for you during the correct situations without also doing them in the worse situations.

    Just admire that person's skill and learn to emulate them and you'll be a better person for it.

    Yes, that's why I disregarded the charge stuns in my post. Obsidian shard can be used point blank, and I was still encountering people blocking it while I was animation canceling. Which should be making it more difficult to read.

    Also, the group I am encountering is of decent size, always outnumbering who they are attacking, so they are really not putting themselves at any disadvantage if they are CC-breaking every stun that hits them. And if they do get themselves in trouble, their group just backtracks onto its own tail and mass heals the person.

    The reaction time you are talking about.... that's not what I am talking about. When they are hit blind by it, there is no reaction delay as a human might have, it is instantaneous with the landing of the stun which they have no prior knowledge of. You'd have to see it to understand, it's quite ridiculous.
  • Milky
    Milky
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    It's also worth mentioning that all of what I've encountered has been from single target abilities. AoE CC's land everytime on these same individuals.
  • Teargrants
    Teargrants
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    Uh huh, so you realize it's pointless making these types of threads without offering video as evidence?
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  • Sypher
    Sypher
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    I personally instantly cc break nearly every time because I always have a finger on the cc break keybind.

    What you're accusing these people of doing might be true, but it's almost impossible to prove because some players are naturally very quick and have low ping so they can react and register inputs quicker. (on good days I'm averaging ~40 ping)
    DC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher

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  • Soul_Demon
    Soul_Demon
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    CP skill elusive? Don't know what the max % is, but seems to be something that would need to be ruled out to be sure it is not either working improperly or just maxed out.
    Edited by Soul_Demon on March 31, 2015 11:26PM
  • Milky
    Milky
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Uh huh, so you realize it's pointless making these types of threads without offering video as evidence?

    It's a discussion, so no it's not pointless. If I could post video evidence I would, unfortunately I cannot.

    So let's just discuss it instead, and maybe someone else has encountered the same thing as myself, and they have recorded it, or tested it under better circumstances.
  • The_Death_Princess
    The_Death_Princess
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    While its true you might be seeing an exploit/hack, I kinda let these go since I have been trying to get ZOS to ban the speed haxors (and others) for months. Fact is now that the main defense (paying) is removed, cheaters are going to be in abundance, and ZOS you better beef up customer service. You will quickly find your reputation to be in the realms of games like NWO, Aion etc.

    Take a page from WoW and start doing at least something (not saying they are perfect btw, but at least do something).

    To OP, be aware one of the HUGEST problems in this game is perma block, and is one of the oldest hax in the books. Anyone can push a fork into their keyboard and pretty much be immune to CC and ~90% of all damage. Another really poorly thought out design bye ZOS. BTW ZOS, the argument you have made why this cant be changed is without merit. Front facing block is possible as evidenced by directional skills such as arrow spray, biting jabs, etc etc.

    The rest of it OP, is I believe that more and more will use addons that will trigger off combat log text and/or floaters to do what you ask.

    Astaria Dødfurstinna
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  • RivenEsq
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    LOL @ the "it's all skill l2p" argument. I mean, come on. That's gotta be the most BS cliche that always gets used when someone is cheating.

    Personally, I've seen the things that Milky is talking about. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the blocking and stun breaking that occurs is inhuman. It isn't reaction times, it is clearly a script that immediately breaks free of stuns. And, if they are scripting to break stuns, it follows that since there is a stun duration, it could be made to break any stun over X seconds.

    There are clearly exploits in this game and I think that this is one of them. People are scripting to avoid CC.

    If there really isn't any foul play going on, ZOS should be able to have software that detects scripted macros such as these and ban those who are responsible. It is exploiting plain and simple and when a particular group of EP players on Thornblade seem to be the only ones where this ever happens, it isn't "skill", especially when these instances happen repeatedly under any circumstance, which furthers the likelihood that something is not right.

    On another note, I think that macros should not be allowed (i.e. spell rotation macros) because I think it takes the skill out of the game, especially for pvp. If you want to cast something, you should have to hit the actual button.
    Cheers,
    Ryan "RivenEsq" Reynolds
    CEO & Founder of [KG] Knight Gaming
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  • Cody
    Cody
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    I can CC break almost immediately, be it from surprise or me being aware it is coming, no matter if its streak(which i really should train myself to not CC break. I waste stamina on a short duration; harmless stun) shield charge, snipe, shard, any of them. I have been playing since beta, and have long ago adapted to the CC spam that is ESO PvP. CC breaking is a learned, quick reflex for me. I am ALWAYS prepared to do it, whether I am in a group or alone(especially alone) Only if i get jumped while on my horse and forced to go thru that ridiculous 3x fall animation, will I not CC break a stun from stealth. Its the same case for many other people.

    when one is about to be stunned, there is a tiny hesitation that occurs. People new to the game or those that just do not pay attention won't notice it. But if you keep your guard up, you will see it. You lose control of your character for a split second before being stunned. this is the key to instantly CC breaking(and even dodging if you are quick enough) attempted sneak attacks/stuns from stealth or behind.

    Now it is possible it could be a 3rd party program, im not saying it is not, but it is highly unlikely. Some people just have VERY quick reflexes.

    HOWEVER I do know what you mean, I have seen these instances.

    you cant call them hackers without proof though. did you take any videos or screenshots?
    Edited by Cody on April 1, 2015 1:13AM
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    C'Mon .... No one in ESO cheats or hacks . if they did ZOS's amazing GMs would ban their accounts . Especially EP ! Those guys are just so naturally talented they don't even need to group half the time . Stop being so conspiracy oriented . This game has the best ant 3rd party software money can buy ... Psssh
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Milky wrote: »
    ...
    One skill I tried out was obsidian shard. When I encountered a player that I suspected, I would focus them in every engagement to test. I found that these people were able to miraculously block CC skills (and only CC skills, they weren't blocking other attacks) that would hit them from BEHIND. I tested on these people from all types of ranges as well, and found that they could successfully block the CC every, single, time, regardless or range, angle, or their current field of view. I even tried it from stealth (harder to test with my DK) and while I was only able to test it a few times, I received the same results, inconclusive... but worth mentioning.

    My other finding was that some people are able to CC break the exact instant they are hit with a CC that hits them blindly. They have no awareness of this skill that is going to hit them in the back, yet they amazingly CC break it the millisecond it lands.
    ...

    So every time you encountered a particular player, you would focus them,
    and every time you focused on a particular player, you would use CC,
    But every time you focused on a particular player, they blocked your CC?

    Saying that you are attacking people from "behind", outside of "their current field of view" or that "They have no awareness of this skill that is going to hit them in the back" is a bit difficult to consider as well -- Obsidian Shard has a very short range, and the average PvP player does not play in First Person, meaning he or she is quite likely easily able to see you behind him or her.

    Overall it sounds more like you were telegraphing your intent to CC and they were relatively skilled and responding to the situation.
    Edited by Samadhi on April 1, 2015 1:52AM
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  • sKorcheD
    sKorcheD
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    Are you sure he didn't have a semi translucent bubble around himself? :D
    Larrdok - Pact
    Filthy Barbarian
  • Xeniph
    Xeniph
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    I know exactly what he's talking about, when it comes to some folks blocking CC.

    Watch some of the more renowned streamers and youtubers. I have often wondered how some people magically block that CF that comes from behind, surprising the viewer and clearly surprising the player, yet they block. I'm all for quick reaction times and muscle memory. But if you watch closely, there is no way these people should be able to do this with such consistency.

    Now for the CC break. It's pretty obviouse when "bash" is scripted in a macro. However CC break is so easy to hit, I don't see alot of folks scripting it since the Bash nerf. Though there used to be ALOT back then.

    And lastly, macros. They are everywhere, good and terrible players alike. But no real surprise here.


    So to summarize, I do think there is some program that assists players in blocking CC, if they know how to find it. But as to the quick response time of CC break, I think that's just experience and muscle memory. Often I break CC while still in the air from KB's.
    Here since Beta.

    Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.
  • Milky
    Milky
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Milky wrote: »
    ...
    One skill I tried out was obsidian shard. When I encountered a player that I suspected, I would focus them in every engagement to test. I found that these people were able to miraculously block CC skills (and only CC skills, they weren't blocking other attacks) that would hit them from BEHIND. I tested on these people from all types of ranges as well, and found that they could successfully block the CC every, single, time, regardless or range, angle, or their current field of view. I even tried it from stealth (harder to test with my DK) and while I was only able to test it a few times, I received the same results, inconclusive... but worth mentioning.

    My other finding was that some people are able to CC break the exact instant they are hit with a CC that hits them blindly. They have no awareness of this skill that is going to hit them in the back, yet they amazingly CC break it the millisecond it lands.
    ...

    So every time you encountered a particular player, you would focus them,
    and every time you focused on a particular player, you would use CC,
    But every time you focused on a particular player, they blocked your CC?

    Saying that you are attacking people from "behind", outside of "their current field of view" or that "They have no awareness of this skill that is going to hit them in the back" is a bit difficult to consider as well -- Obsidian Shard has a very short range, and the average PvP player does not play in First Person, meaning he or she is quite likely easily able to see you behind him or her.

    Overall it sounds more like you were telegraphing your intent to CC and they were relatively skilled and responding to the situation.

    15 meters is a short range? You can be well outside of the players screen real-estate with 15 meters, as long has they haven't free-cam'd and looked behind themselves. The projectile for obsidian shard also isn't incredibly noticable when it comes to projectiles, it's not like a crystal fragments or anything. If anything, it's an underused and unexpected skill to see a DK use. Not sure how you telegraph intent to use obsidian shard, I'm using melee weapons, it's not like I'm running up to someone with a bow, they already expect me to run up to them, because I'm melee.
  • Milky
    Milky
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    Also obsidian shard is instant cast, and I wear a plethora of disguises... since my big malubeth helmet usually gets me focused. So I look different from engagement to engagement typically.
  • Karnus
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    There was an add on for Warhammer called Nerfedbuttons that would allow you to set macros to keybinds with conditionals which would do what you describe but I don't know if there is any such thing for ESO, it could be that or just plain skill anything is possible.
    Edited by Karnus on April 1, 2015 4:40AM
    Formerly Karnus, the Marauder in Warhammer.
  • derpsticks
    derpsticks
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    @sypher how does one get pings of 40?

    What kind of connection do you have / where do you live?

    I'm just outside of DC on a 125mb connection and the lowest I get is around 85ish.
  • Sypher
    Sypher
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    derpsticks wrote: »
    @sypher how does one get pings of 40?

    What kind of connection do you have / where do you live?

    I'm just outside of DC on a 125mb connection and the lowest I get is around 85ish.

    I live in Austin, same city they host the NA mega servers in.
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  • Etaniel
    Etaniel
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    You might as well add "Illuminati confirmed" in your title.
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  • Minno
    Minno
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    Sypher wrote: »
    derpsticks wrote: »
    @sypher how does one get pings of 40?

    What kind of connection do you have / where do you live?

    I'm just outside of DC on a 125mb connection and the lowest I get is around 85ish.

    I live in Austin, same city they host the NA mega servers in.

    Beat lag, move to Austin. :smile:
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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  • PunkAben
    PunkAben
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    April 2015
    This is the date for the this thread was writen.
    So a status today ?
    Have Zenimax eleminated most cheater, is it the same or have it been worse ?
    I wonder why some have succes selling undetectable, it must be really hard for some software developer to dectct what others program punning at a computer... do you need help Zenimax ?
    The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do.The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do.Ted NelsonElder Scrolls Online most balanced part is maybe the the number of bugs and not bugs!
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