Combat distancing for NPC's?

Psychobunni

Today in Koeglin Village/Stormhaven (EP Silver side) and 2 days ago in Camlorn/Genumbra while inside a building a mob I was fighting ran outside, all the way around the building and then back in to continue fight...

It seems more mobs are backing up and further away since 1.6. I was simply curious before I /bug if anyone else is experiencing this nonsense?

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO

Archers and casters do that occasionally and it's something that started after 1.6

For example, the cultist in the burnt house you must kill in Bruma will occasionally exit and circle the house while fighting. In another case, an archer started backpeddaling until he literally vanished in the horizon, respwning some seconds later.

vovus69

This is the change in 1.6. Wait for 3-5 packs when healer will run away and will heal from 30 meters or so. This is really painful

UrQuan

Since 1.6 dropped the mob AI has been altered so that ranged mobs (or primarily melee mobs with a ranged ability that they want to use) will actively try to get away from you and hit you at range. When you get a group of them, often I find they back away from you in different directions to make it harder for you to close and engage them.

For the most part I think it's a good change, as it makes combat with random mobs somewhat more difficult, and if you follow them you run the risk of attracting the attention of other groups of mobs, and possibly pulling more than you can handle. Sometimes they end up backing away to places they probably shouldn't, though.

Athas24

I've fought casters and archers that did nothing but constantly back pedal the entire time I was beating on them recently lol.

firstdecan

It's the new recipes for provisioning. Many players now have rank stanky breath, and even the rabid goblins can't stand being too close.

Expect to find tooth brushes in the crown store soon.

Psychobunni

I did /bug it. I think it needs tweaked a wee bit.

I guess I can understand players who really get into their toon maybe enjoying chasing them down so far ala cops and robbers style....but I just want to kill who I'm suppose to and get through it lol

UrQuan

Psychobunni wrote: »

I did /bug it. I think it needs tweaked a wee bit.

I guess I can understand players who really get into their toon maybe enjoying chasing them down so far ala cops and robbers style....but I just want to kill who I'm suppose to and get through it lol

So you want the mobs to just stand there and be easy meat for you to slaughter, rather than trying to keep you from killing them?

Psychobunni

UrQuan wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

I did /bug it. I think it needs tweaked a wee bit.

I guess I can understand players who really get into their toon maybe enjoying chasing them down so far ala cops and robbers style....but I just want to kill who I'm suppose to and get through it lol

So you want the mobs to just stand there and be easy meat for you to slaughter, rather than trying to keep you from killing them?

I said tweaked a "wee bit" which means a tiny or small amount, which does not in any way imply "just stand there".

There was nothing wrong with the back up distance pre-1.6 and certainly no mobs exiting buildings, running around like they were looking for a window to lick....only to come back to exactly where they started and fight. Its ridiculous.

Xendyn

Yeh I have been seeing that. There's backing up, which is fine but I had to chase one almost to the begining of a delve yesterday lol. Just a little extreme there.

UrQuan

Psychobunni wrote: »

There was nothing wrong with the back up distance pre-1.6

There was, actually, they would barely try to get away from you at all, and it was trivial to slaughter them. Pre-1.6 a melee character (or one using Impulse) could easily slaughter a group of mobs without even trying, because the ranged ones and healers (especially the healers) would stay bunched up close to the melee mobs. They would back up a few steps, but stay close enough that they would still be caught by close-range AoEs. Now they wisely spread apart so that you're more likely to have to focus your attention on them individually, and the healers are vastly more effective.

Now they sometimes end up in unlikely places, but overall the AI is vastly better than it was pre-1.6 as fighting a mixed group of mobs is no longer the super easy-mode faceroll that it used to be.

Psychobunni

Some people just like to argue. If it happens "sometimes" that an npc goes overboard and acts stupid then a minor adjustment should fix it.

I was leveling DW when 1.6 hit, and using templar charge to close distance between retreating npc's, so I* personally never had mobs only take a step or two back where they were still within melee range. That's not to say, it didn't happen for someone....however if they are running completely out of skill range, doing odd loops it can't be a ZOS fav "working as intended" and like other "fixes" this was obviously tipped too far in the opposite direction.

again, a minor adjustment to the distancing would fix it. It's not even immersive as a real enemy would run and get help and then return or run off and hide in wait. They would not however back up 10 feet, turn around a jog a mile and then come back to that 10 feet away spot to fight.

Cazic

I've noticed issues with this too, the AI behavior is pretty buggy. I've seen casters backpeddal and/or strafe up a cliff and off the edge.

UrQuan

Psychobunni wrote: »

Some people just like to argue. If it happens "sometimes" that an npc goes overboard and acts stupid then a minor adjustment should fix it.

I was leveling DW when 1.6 hit, and using templar charge to close distance between retreating npc's, so I* personally never had mobs only take a step or two back where they were still within melee range. That's not to say, it didn't happen for someone....however if they are running completely out of skill range, doing odd loops it can't be a ZOS fav "working as intended" and like other "fixes" this was obviously tipped too far in the opposite direction.

again, a minor adjustment to the distancing would fix it. It's not even immersive as a real enemy would run and get help and then return or run off and hide in wait. They would not however back up 10 feet, turn around a jog a mile and then come back to that 10 feet away spot to fight.

I may have misunderstood what you meant then. I thought when you said "I guess I can understand players who really get into their toon maybe enjoying chasing them down so far ala cops and robbers style" you were talking about the general 1.6 behavior of them splitting up and backing up a significant distance (I believe for ranged mobs they now generally back up to max range of their weapon/ability), rather than specifically the cases in which they end up going to weird places that they probably shouldn't (like running around a building). If the latter is all that you're talking about, then we actually agree.

Natjur

If you are melee a mob, range mobs will now try to get out of melee range and try to get to max range.
If its 2 healers and a few archers, it can be a pain if you are not range attacking or have a 'pull' to bring them back.

Psychobunni

UrQuan wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

Some people just like to argue. If it happens "sometimes" that an npc goes overboard and acts stupid then a minor adjustment should fix it.

I was leveling DW when 1.6 hit, and using templar charge to close distance between retreating npc's, so I* personally never had mobs only take a step or two back where they were still within melee range. That's not to say, it didn't happen for someone....however if they are running completely out of skill range, doing odd loops it can't be a ZOS fav "working as intended" and like other "fixes" this was obviously tipped too far in the opposite direction.

again, a minor adjustment to the distancing would fix it. It's not even immersive as a real enemy would run and get help and then return or run off and hide in wait. They would not however back up 10 feet, turn around a jog a mile and then come back to that 10 feet away spot to fight.

I may have misunderstood what you meant then. I thought when you said "I guess I can understand players who really get into their toon maybe enjoying chasing them down so far ala cops and robbers style" you were talking about the general 1.6 behavior of them splitting up and backing up a significant distance (I believe for ranged mobs they now generally back up to max range of their weapon/ability), rather than specifically the cases in which they end up going to weird places that they probably shouldn't (like running around a building). If the latter is all that you're talking about, then we actually agree.

We do agree. I'm not asking for them to stop retreating mobs, only to tweak it so they aren't completely derping out sometimes going way out of range.

It probably has to do with confined spaces and walls and/or objects in the pathing when they are backing up which may not even be even fixable, but they could at least attempt a minor tweak.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

i have noticed a potential AI issue as well. its like they are set to back away from the crowd "X" distance, but then that resets, then resets, then resets. i have even seen mobs behaving in a way that they intend to use a ranged ability (stop and face you), not execute the ability and return to fleeing. now i am not against "fleeing" mobs, if that is what they are going for- i have much experience in this from EQ and it would add to the importance of "close the gap abilities/charge abilities." the problem seems that they are erratic, and while people are right to say it makes sense as it adds to the difficulty and virtual reality, commonly its not an issue because while the mob is fleeing, they are not executing abilities consistently. when that happens i just do what i have always done as a tank- focus on the mobs nearest to me while moving towards the ranged target.

Nyghthowler

UrQuan wrote: »

Since 1.6 dropped the mob AI has been altered so that ranged mobs (or primarily melee mobs with a ranged ability that they want to use) will actively try to get away from you and hit you at range. When you get a group of them, often I find they back away from you in different directions to make it harder for you to close and engage them.

For the most part I think it's a good change, as it makes combat with random mobs somewhat more difficult, and if you follow them you run the risk of attracting the attention of other groups of mobs, and possibly pulling more than you can handle. Sometimes they end up backing away to places they probably shouldn't, though.

Very true on the last sentence!

Last night I was rescuing Tharn from the tower on a new alt. I was on the second wave of skellies and had just killed two and was about to dispatch the last one (the damned pyro caster) when he ran through the force shield where I couldn't follow him, and continued to cast at me. I couldn't use my bow through the shield on him either.

Lyris followed him through the shield, but seeing as how she does basically zero damage he kept casting on me for 10 - 15 seconds till he decided to rejoin me inside the shielded area.

Harasdar

I like if mobs react more natural and clever...but if one caster runs throught the whole instance (happend to me on Betnik or how it is called) or go into cages where I can't reach them it is not fun anymore. Even trying to pin them with talons will not help. :-(

UrQuan

Psychobunni wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

Some people just like to argue. If it happens "sometimes" that an npc goes overboard and acts stupid then a minor adjustment should fix it.

I was leveling DW when 1.6 hit, and using templar charge to close distance between retreating npc's, so I* personally never had mobs only take a step or two back where they were still within melee range. That's not to say, it didn't happen for someone....however if they are running completely out of skill range, doing odd loops it can't be a ZOS fav "working as intended" and like other "fixes" this was obviously tipped too far in the opposite direction.

again, a minor adjustment to the distancing would fix it. It's not even immersive as a real enemy would run and get help and then return or run off and hide in wait. They would not however back up 10 feet, turn around a jog a mile and then come back to that 10 feet away spot to fight.

I may have misunderstood what you meant then. I thought when you said "I guess I can understand players who really get into their toon maybe enjoying chasing them down so far ala cops and robbers style" you were talking about the general 1.6 behavior of them splitting up and backing up a significant distance (I believe for ranged mobs they now generally back up to max range of their weapon/ability), rather than specifically the cases in which they end up going to weird places that they probably shouldn't (like running around a building). If the latter is all that you're talking about, then we actually agree.

We do agree. I'm not asking for them to stop retreating mobs, only to tweak it so they aren't completely derping out sometimes going way out of range.

It probably has to do with confined spaces and walls and/or objects in the pathing when they are backing up which may not even be even fixable, but they could at least attempt a minor tweak.

Hmm. We just talked something through where we started off disagreeing (based primarily on misunderstanding), and came to agreement (based on clarifying what we meant). And this happened on the internet. And it's not even April Fools Day. Did I accidentally slip over to Bizarro World's internet, where people are reasonable and act like adults?

pvpaddict42

The real problem with this new behavior is that the mobs can back pedal regardless of roots/snares etc at full speed. I really enjoy watching them moonwalk away while talons is still gripping them. Needs fixing.

UrQuan

pvpaddict42 wrote: »

The real problem with this new behavior is that the mobs can back pedal regardless of roots/snares etc at full speed. I really enjoy watching them moonwalk away while talons is still gripping them. Needs fixing.

That part isn't new. That used to happen in pre-1.6 too, it's just that they didn't backpedal as much. Talons also never seemed to stop those acrobatic guys from doing their move where they jump over my head and end up behind me (although when they land those talons show up at their feet again).

LEGENDARYYY

it's perfect for my critical charge

but yeah, sometimes it's buggy as hell. Sometimes enemies vanish in to thin air, sometimes they glitch into rocks or other objects and sometimes they end up behind a random tree, still spamming their skills, not hitting me, but the tree.

I've had my fair share of facepalms.

Elephant42

Nyghthowler wrote: »

-snip-
Last night I was rescuing Tharn from the tower on a new alt. I was on the second wave of skellies and had just killed two and was about to dispatch the last one (the damned pyro caster) when he ran through the force shield where I couldn't follow him, and continued to cast at me. I couldn't use my bow through the shield on him either.

Lyris followed him through the shield, but seeing as how she does basically zero damage he kept casting on me for 10 - 15 seconds till he decided to rejoin me inside the shielded area.

The exact same thing happened to me a few days ago, only it took what seemed like forever (but was probably only a couple of minutes) for the skeleton to decide to rejoin the fray - at least he did eventually come back...

Psychobunni

UrQuan wrote: »

Hmm. We just talked something through where we started off disagreeing (based primarily on misunderstanding), and came to agreement (based on clarifying what we meant). And this happened on the internet. And it's not even April Fools Day. Did I accidentally slip over to Bizarro World's internet, where people are reasonable and act like adults?

And without a MOD telling us to chill out...strange days indeed. Zombie Apocalypse is coming!