Spell Penetration Testing 2.0.3 - BROKEN AGAIN (Still?)

evedgebah

Hello,

Here is my latest round of spell penetration testing.

TLDR: Nirnhoned is worthless, don't put more than one (1) CP in Spell Erosion, but do put 1 point. Having extra points grants +1 Focus, not +1%

Extra PROTIP: Possessed Manticora has 25000 Resistance (Both), and Focus subtracts from that value, so you want around 20000 Focus.

Focus Rating (Harven's Extended Stats)

Naked (100 Base)
100 + Sharpened 14% > 240 (×240% increase)
100 + Nirnhoned 18% > 159 (+59)

5 Light (+4736)
4836 + Sharpened 14% > 11606 (×240%)
4836 + Nirnhoned 18% > 4945 (+109)

4836 × 1.14 = 5513.04
4836 × 1.18 = 5706.48

Apprentice Stone (+3200 Focus) Naked
3300 + Sharpened > 7920 (+240%)
3300 + Nirnhoned > 3359 (+59)

3300 × 1.14 = 3762
3300 × 1.18 = 3894

Apprentice Stone + 5 Light
8740 + Sharpened > 20976 (+240%)
8740 + Nirnhoned > 8849 (+109)

8740 × 1.14 = 9963.6
8740 × 1.18 = 10313.2

Naked + 1CP Spell Erosion
100 + 1CP Spell Erosion > 7781 (+7681)
7781 + Sharpened > 18674 (+240%)
7781 + Nirnhoned > 7840 (+59)

5 Light + 1 ("1%") CP in Spell Erosion
100+4736 > 12517 (+7681)
12517 + Sharpened > 30040 (+240%)
12517 + Nirnhoned > 12626 (+109)

5 Light + Apprentice Stone + 1 CP in Spell Erosion
100+4736+3200 > 16421 (+8385, ~+200%)
16421 + Sharpened > 39410 (+240%)
16421 + Nirnhoned > 16530 (+109)

Attorneyatlawl

Oh deer lord... not again . Thanks for the post.

Valymer

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Oh deer lord...

A new Cyrodiil boss?!

monkeymystic

This has officially become a joke. I wonder how many tries it will take..

ssewallb14_ESO

I sometimes wonder what the focus code looks like and what it is that makes something this simple so hard.

Phinix1

Wow that's... at this point that's just sad.

NoRefunds

ive tested on my 1h sword nirnohed vs sharpened and i deal a bit more dmg with nirnohed, it also gives me 1600 spell res, so it seems that on 1h weapons its working fine

Attorneyatlawl

Valymer wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Oh deer lord...

A new Cyrodiil boss?!

Yes. From the annals of Warhammer Online history, I present you with.... KHURONOUS, THE HOLY STAG!!!

LegacyDM

Penetration too OP. Nerf penetration and call it a bug. Never get to it because there are more important things to worry about. Life in the mind of the devs.

Daveheart

NoRefunds wrote: »

ive tested on my 1h sword nirnohed vs sharpened and i deal a bit more dmg with nirnohed, it also gives me 1600 spell res, so it seems that on 1h weapons its working fine

Melee weapons, especially in conjunction with medium armor aren't getting the concentration passive. They haven't seemed to be broken lately. On the other hand, I had 30,045 focus rating while using LA + Sharpened flame staff. I was using the Mage Mundus. I even still had ~11.5k with a precise staff.

Sharee

Is that just information shown by an addon, or was it confirmed by actual testing?

f047ys3v3n

Thank you for continuing to do ZOS job. That explains why I have felt a bit underwhelming with my new gear. I'll put the precise staffs back on until I hear from a respected theorycrafter such as yourself otherwise.

As always, ignore the misinformation in the patch notes and move along.

ThatHappyCat

NoRefunds wrote: »

ive tested on my 1h sword nirnohed vs sharpened and i deal a bit more dmg with nirnohed, it also gives me 1600 spell res, so it seems that on 1h weapons its working fine

Sharee wrote: »

Is that just information shown by an addon, or was it confirmed by actual testing?

I like how no actual testing was done in the OP and most people are just jumping on the ZOS-bashing bandwagon.

My own actual testing also reveals that Nirnhoned is working perfectly fine compared to Sharpened.

rager82b14_ESO

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

ive tested on my 1h sword nirnohed vs sharpened and i deal a bit more dmg with nirnohed, it also gives me 1600 spell res, so it seems that on 1h weapons its working fine

Sharee wrote: »

Is that just information shown by an addon, or was it confirmed by actual testing?

I like how no actual testing was done in the OP and most people are just jumping on the ZOS-bashing bandwagon.

My own actual testing also reveals that Nirnhoned is working perfectly fine compared to Sharpened.

Well it is not like devs have earned trust of the players. I mean with shadow cloak still half working for this long. I don't blame players for not trusting the devs.

ThatHappyCat

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

ive tested on my 1h sword nirnohed vs sharpened and i deal a bit more dmg with nirnohed, it also gives me 1600 spell res, so it seems that on 1h weapons its working fine

Sharee wrote: »

Is that just information shown by an addon, or was it confirmed by actual testing?

I like how no actual testing was done in the OP and most people are just jumping on the ZOS-bashing bandwagon.

My own actual testing also reveals that Nirnhoned is working perfectly fine compared to Sharpened.

Well it is not like devs have earned trust of the players. I mean with shadow cloak still half working for this long. I don't blame players for not trusting the devs.

Not an excuse for crying foul without doing any actual testing, IMO.

byrom101b16_ESO

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Penetration too OP. Nerf penetration and call it a bug. Never get to it because there are more important things to worry about. Life in the mind of the devs.

Dev Doublespeak;

Patch Notes 2.whatever

"Fixed an unintended 'w' which was causing 'x' to do 'y' under 'z' circumstances."

Translation - "Changed something we deliberately programmed that way because we simply couldn't see at the time (even when told by playtesters) that it could/would be exploited and/or was OP or useless."

Zenimax, like all MMO companies REALLY need people being paid to play their games and feeding back to them. Zenimax clearly don't as their complete prior unawareness of the mount stop/start bug proves.

There is a thread on these forums talking about it - a bug that effects EVERYONE IN THE GAME, and has done for weeks, and the Zenimax thread manager comes on and says 'what bug, could you show video?'.

Hillarious...

How can anyone take a Zenimax representative's assurances that 'class x' or 'ability y' is 'fine' based on such lack of awareness of the state of play of their own game?

This constitutes a major service delivery and quality assurance failure on Zenimax's part, and one which cannot justify their habit of disregarding or dissmissing anyone's complaints as they have done so repeatedly in some areas.

In essence, we are their testers, with the one difference that if we were employed to test their software, we'd get paid, and get listened to... everything which is, unfortunately, currently the other way around!

Derra

From testing on mobs since 2.0 was deployed live (will test on a player now to get 2.0.3 data and most likely post results) the focus value displayed has no correlation whatsoever to actual dmg values.
My guess is they just scrapped the whole focus thing but did not remove all code - however dmg calculations are done differently.

Ezareth

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

ive tested on my 1h sword nirnohed vs sharpened and i deal a bit more dmg with nirnohed, it also gives me 1600 spell res, so it seems that on 1h weapons its working fine

Sharee wrote: »

Is that just information shown by an addon, or was it confirmed by actual testing?

I like how no actual testing was done in the OP and most people are just jumping on the ZOS-bashing bandwagon.

My own actual testing also reveals that Nirnhoned is working perfectly fine compared to Sharpened.

That's funny because my own testing last night showed the exact opposite. Nirnhoned provided far less penetration than Sharpened with staves at least. I haven't bothered to try to make a legendary nirnhoned sword.

Dymence

I'm fairly sure having a sharpened weapon calculates the spell penetration ontop of your own focus rating, while having a nirnhoned weapon calculates it directly off the mob and not onto your own penetration.

Scrap that, the traits are just totally messed up. I have no idea how it works anymore.

danno8

You probably shouldn't rely on the Focus stat given by Harvens Extended Stats. There are like 20 other stats that become visible with that addon and don't work at all.

Only way to really test it is to use damage numbers on an actual mob.

Zershar_Vemod

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Wow that's... at this point that's just sad.

^

ScruffyWhiskers

This is seems to be the case for me. I have 2 sharpened Twilights Embrace daggers (purple) and 2 nirnhoned ( 1 gold and 1 purple).

In reapers march just now with concealed weapon the sharpened daggers did 4571 damage non crit and 7177 damage crit on a wasp.

The nirnhoned did 4491 non crit and 7051 crit on the wasp.

Using an addon my focus rating shows 18789 with the sharpened and 12668 with the nirnhoned.

xMovingTarget

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Oh deer lord... not again . Thanks for the post.

I was thinking about your old calculations too

Rook_Master

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Only way to really test it is to use damage numbers on an actual mob.

As opposed to a Training Dummy? lolol jk

evedgebah

@ThatHappyCat If you want to see my spreadsheet with number calculations, I'll provide them. They don't format correctly here without considerable effort. I tested these numbers on both armored and armor-less (or negligibly armored) mobs. I'd love to see/hear the conflicting numbers and discuss how our testing differed.

Valnas

test against another player or something with know resistance. When you fight somethign with less resistance than your erosion + 5 light total, the nirn is giving some really small base dmg increase. Like it was previously but at a less agressive decimal.

evedgebah

I did see a 10-20 damage increase over tooltip with Nirnhoned in some instances of fighting against very low SR targets.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

The people working on the game are inept. It's as simple as that. If a normal business had this many issues and never fixed the stuff that their customers brought to their attention they would be out of business.

I am sure this will be edited, but the truth hurts ZoS. You clearly need a company restructuring. Perhaps you should fix the game before continuing to release other content or console releases.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

So, are Spell Penetration builds out of the question for melee Nightblades at the moment?

reagen_lionel

Has anyone done any testing, without taking into account addon information?

If this is going to be proven, need to take out any other possible variables. This test should be done by just as many people without the addon and focus stats to really be verified for any sort of inconsistancy.

Gilvoth

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Penetration too OP. Nerf penetration and call it a bug. Never get to it because there are more important things to worry about. Life in the mind of the devs.

Dev Doublespeak;

Patch Notes 2.whatever

"Fixed an unintended 'w' which was causing 'x' to do 'y' under 'z' circumstances."

Translation - "Changed something we deliberately programmed that way because we simply couldn't see at the time (even when told by playtesters) that it could/would be exploited and/or was OP or useless."

Zenimax, like all MMO companies REALLY need people being paid to play their games and feeding back to them. Zenimax clearly don't as their complete prior unawareness of the mount stop/start bug proves.

There is a thread on these forums talking about it - a bug that effects EVERYONE IN THE GAME, and has done for weeks, and the Zenimax thread manager comes on and says 'what bug, could you show video?'.

Hillarious...

How can anyone take a Zenimax representative's assurances that 'class x' or 'ability y' is 'fine' based on such lack of awareness of the state of play of their own game?

This constitutes a major service delivery and quality assurance failure on Zenimax's part, and one which cannot justify their habit of disregarding or dissmissing anyone's complaints as they have done so repeatedly in some areas.

In essence, we are their testers, with the one difference that if we were employed to test their software, we'd get paid, and get listened to... everything which is, unfortunately, currently the other way around!

most awesome post i think i have ever seen on this forum. ^