No changes to Sorcerers since Patch 1.6.5

Grao

Hi there @ZoS and specially @ZoS_GinaBruno,

I know you guys are all busy and I am not saying changes haven't been implemented to improve ESO and the game's general performance this last few patches, but I did notice every other class has had little adjustments made to some of their skills. Every class except for Sorcerers, is there any reason for that?

Before the release of 1.6.5 to live you promised the Devs would be watching Sorcerer performance, numbers, builds etc. You, @ZoS_GinaBruno, said in posts filled with several Sorcerer suggestions and concerns, that a Dev would come to the Forums to talk to us, try to understand the problems we have with Sorcerers at the moment.

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all, have only one class ability useful to Stamina DPS and have close to no Utility when compared to all other classes? Is that it or have the Dev team simply given up on Sorcerers 'till the large next update?

Dymence

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

Grao

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

Jaerlach

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

CP5

I'm also interested if Eric's team plans on posting their intended direction on the forums. A while ago it was said that they were looking over feedback but didn't have the time to reply that day and would do so on Monday, however we haven't gotten any information since.

Grao

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Grao

CP5 wrote: »

I'm also interested if Eric's team plans on posting their intended direction on the forums. A while ago it was said that they were looking over feedback but didn't have the time to reply that day and would do so on Monday, however we haven't gotten any information since.

Its been over a month that promise was made by @ZOS_GinaBruno and Eric, but ever since its been a complete radio silence. The most we can get from the forum is one of the Mods snipping away at posts and saying "We are very interested on your feedback, but please keep it civil or you will be doomed for life".

s7732425ub17_ESO

Sorcs are very, very strong right now. Really nice PVE DPS (on par with the other classes or just a tad lower). GODS in PVP. Yep, they are in a good sweet spot.

Jaerlach

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

CP5

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

Few quick things.
1.) Can a tank spend the time to summon the pet in the middle of a fight, and why have a pet if its whole purpose is to be de-summoned?
2.) The atronach synergy is good, however it is rather short and does only help one person, which is fine small scale but the more people involved in the fight the less useful that buff becomes. As for Negate, how often do you notice mobs break cc?

Suru

Sorcs can heal the hardest of any class, have major and minor armor buffs to stack for sorc tanking, other classes have evasion, they just have to figure out self heals haven't delved into tanking aspect but those are two bonuses right off the bat. SoSorc can do stamina easy, but so can any class. Magika is harder but still doable with 10k+DPS

Dymence

Grao wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm also interested if Eric's team plans on posting their intended direction on the forums. A while ago it was said that they were looking over feedback but didn't have the time to reply that day and would do so on Monday, however we haven't gotten any information since.

Its been over a month that promise was made by @ZOS_GinaBruno and Eric, but ever since its been a complete radio silence. The most we can get from the forum is one of the Mods snipping away at posts and saying "We are very interested on your feedback, but please keep it civil or you will be doomed for life".

I believe their official response back then was that they wouldn't make any drastic changes before tamriel unlimited went live and they wanted us to play and see how it actually is for ourselves, while they keep monitoring the situation?

Also, just because no one takes sorcs to tank trials doesn't mean sorcs are bad tanks. People just jump to the obvious answer which is DK tank and don't really bother thinking about it themselves. Sorc tanks can probably tank any trial right now. Also, what does a templar tank have over a sorc tank exactly?

Actually dpsing, tanking or healing properly as a sorc isn't hard. Getting rid of bad class reputation is hard. But it will probably change in due time.

Grao

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

If the clannfear shouldn't ever tank, why does it has a taunt in the first place? It would be interesting if instead of summoning the pet just to kill it and get 35% health back, we could actually summon the pet and have it tank a boss for a couple of seconds (till the pet died) allowing us to use something like dark conversion to regain stam, etc.

The Atronach is useful, but it is a selfish, same for Power Overload. In a raid setting, where the utility of healing and damage mitigation ults is paramount, sorcerers are better running Warhorn.

Nothing is wrong with the class, except the simple fact it lacks utility and the same degree of flexibility as a DK or a Templar.

And oh, about Negate... It went from being used in several fights to hardly ever being slotted. The only boss we still run Negate against is the Foundation Atronahch in AA and that is just because we are too lazy to kill the adds. The silence is cool, but it doesn't work on bosses, the damage mitigation is a bad joke (8% mitigation against 30% mitigation from Veil?) and the dispell is pretty much useless when the spell you just cleared is cast once more 5 seconds later.

Jaerlach

CP5 wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

Few quick things.
1.) Can a tank spend the time to summon the pet in the middle of a fight, and why have a pet if its whole purpose is to be de-summoned?
2.) The atronach synergy is good, however it is rather short and does only help one person, which is fine small scale but the more people involved in the fight the less useful that buff becomes. As for Negate, how often do you notice mobs break cc?

I would have no problem resummoning the clannfear in most fights including trials. The clannfear heals you for 35% of your MAXIMUM HEALTH when unsummoned. For a sorc tank this is a 10k instant heal. It is worth finding a 1s opportunity to recast during phase transitions, etc. It is extremely powerful. Most fights where you would not get a phase transition to recast the effect are also fights where you arent that likely to need it more than once.

The clannfear provides free DPS and then unsummons for a heal that can be as much as 1.5 to 2x the size of green dragon blood. Again, it scales on max health, not missing health like GDB.

There are windows to recast it while doing most of the more difficult tanking tasks in the game - before initiating on serpent image, during serpent poison phases, while kiting Hiath between fire phases, etc.

The skill is really good.

Grao

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm also interested if Eric's team plans on posting their intended direction on the forums. A while ago it was said that they were looking over feedback but didn't have the time to reply that day and would do so on Monday, however we haven't gotten any information since.

Its been over a month that promise was made by @ZOS_GinaBruno and Eric, but ever since its been a complete radio silence. The most we can get from the forum is one of the Mods snipping away at posts and saying "We are very interested on your feedback, but please keep it civil or you will be doomed for life".

I believe their official response back then was that they wouldn't make any drastic changes before tamriel unlimited went live and they wanted us to play and see how it actually is for ourselves, while they keep monitoring the situation?

Also, just because no one takes sorcs to tank trials doesn't mean sorcs are bad tanks. People just jump to the obvious answer which is DK tank and don't really bother thinking about it themselves. Sorc tanks can probably tank any trial right now. Also, what does a templar tank have over a sorc tank exactly?

Actually dpsing, tanking or healing properly as a sorc isn't hard. Getting rid of bad class reputation is hard. But it will probably change in due time.

Templars have amazing instant cast self heals and absurd control over their stamina and magicka. So yes, they are far better tanks.

ANd if you say sorcerers have Dark Conversion to control their resources I will have to say you never played a sorcerer.

Grao

Jaerlach wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

Few quick things.
1.) Can a tank spend the time to summon the pet in the middle of a fight, and why have a pet if its whole purpose is to be de-summoned?
2.) The atronach synergy is good, however it is rather short and does only help one person, which is fine small scale but the more people involved in the fight the less useful that buff becomes. As for Negate, how often do you notice mobs break cc?

I would have no problem resummoning the clannfear in most fights including trials. The clannfear heals you for 35% of your MAXIMUM HEALTH when unsummoned. For a sorc tank this is a 10k instant heal. It is worth finding a 1s opportunity to recast during phase transitions, etc. It is extremely powerful. Most fights where you would not get a phase transition to recast the effect are also fights where you arent that likely to need it more than once.

The clannfear provides free DPS and then unsummons for a heal that can be as much as 1.5 to 2x the size of green dragon blood. Again, it scales on max health, not missing health like GDB.

There are windows to recast it while doing most of the more difficult tanking tasks in the game - before initiating on serpent image, during serpent poison phases, while kiting Hiath between fire phases, etc.

The skill is really good.

I am not saying the ability is horrible, just that it could be much better.

Also, those pets can't be used in trials very safely as they can be targeted by bosses abilities, such as chain lightning on the mage and even the "popcorn" in the Manticora. That not to mention pets take heals away from other party members. ^^

EDIT: By the way, this thread wasn't meant to discuss how good or bad sorcerers are, but to get a reaction from ZoS. We were promised a Q&A with Erik concerning sorcerers over a month ago and that just didn't happened. And considering @ZOS_GinaBruno is ignoring this thread, that promise is, as many of ZoS promises, empty.

Jaerlach

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

Few quick things.
1.) Can a tank spend the time to summon the pet in the middle of a fight, and why have a pet if its whole purpose is to be de-summoned?
2.) The atronach synergy is good, however it is rather short and does only help one person, which is fine small scale but the more people involved in the fight the less useful that buff becomes. As for Negate, how often do you notice mobs break cc?

I would have no problem resummoning the clannfear in most fights including trials. The clannfear heals you for 35% of your MAXIMUM HEALTH when unsummoned. For a sorc tank this is a 10k instant heal. It is worth finding a 1s opportunity to recast during phase transitions, etc. It is extremely powerful. Most fights where you would not get a phase transition to recast the effect are also fights where you arent that likely to need it more than once.

The clannfear provides free DPS and then unsummons for a heal that can be as much as 1.5 to 2x the size of green dragon blood. Again, it scales on max health, not missing health like GDB.

There are windows to recast it while doing most of the more difficult tanking tasks in the game - before initiating on serpent image, during serpent poison phases, while kiting Hiath between fire phases, etc.

The skill is really good.

I am not saying the ability is horrible, just that it could be much better.

Also, those pets can't be used in trials very safely as they can be targeted by bosses abilities, such as chain lightning on the mage and even the "popcorn" in the Manticora. That not to mention pets take heals away from other party members. ^^

EDIT: By the way, this thread wasn't meant to discuss how good or bad sorcerers are, but to get a reaction from ZoS. We were promised a Q&A with Erik concerning sorcerers over a month ago and that just didn't happened. And considering @ZOS_GinaBruno is ignoring this thread, that promise is, as many of ZoS promises, empty.

if there is no issue with the class, the promised actions aren't needed.


The taking heals and ability targets issue is over rated. I've taken pet sorcs through so and it is not a problem. I have no problem with sorceror pve utility and I think you're completely wrong to have them run warhorn. You know who has no raid utility? Dragon knights. No one cares because the dps is great. Sorc dps can be great too, great enough to not care about their utility.

my guild has completed the so speedrun achievement since 1.6. I promise you that focusing on dps is critical to getting the best results. We have been trying to kill him before the pink phase but so far our best is just executing him when it happens.

Grao

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

Few quick things.
1.) Can a tank spend the time to summon the pet in the middle of a fight, and why have a pet if its whole purpose is to be de-summoned?
2.) The atronach synergy is good, however it is rather short and does only help one person, which is fine small scale but the more people involved in the fight the less useful that buff becomes. As for Negate, how often do you notice mobs break cc?

I would have no problem resummoning the clannfear in most fights including trials. The clannfear heals you for 35% of your MAXIMUM HEALTH when unsummoned. For a sorc tank this is a 10k instant heal. It is worth finding a 1s opportunity to recast during phase transitions, etc. It is extremely powerful. Most fights where you would not get a phase transition to recast the effect are also fights where you arent that likely to need it more than once.

The clannfear provides free DPS and then unsummons for a heal that can be as much as 1.5 to 2x the size of green dragon blood. Again, it scales on max health, not missing health like GDB.

There are windows to recast it while doing most of the more difficult tanking tasks in the game - before initiating on serpent image, during serpent poison phases, while kiting Hiath between fire phases, etc.

The skill is really good.

I am not saying the ability is horrible, just that it could be much better.

Also, those pets can't be used in trials very safely as they can be targeted by bosses abilities, such as chain lightning on the mage and even the "popcorn" in the Manticora. That not to mention pets take heals away from other party members. ^^

EDIT: By the way, this thread wasn't meant to discuss how good or bad sorcerers are, but to get a reaction from ZoS. We were promised a Q&A with Erik concerning sorcerers over a month ago and that just didn't happened. And considering @ZOS_GinaBruno is ignoring this thread, that promise is, as many of ZoS promises, empty.

if there is no issue with the class, the promised actions aren't needed.


The taking heals and ability targets issue is over rated. I've taken pet sorcs through so and it is not a problem. I have no problem with sorceror pve utility and I think you're completely wrong to have them run warhorn. You know who has no raid utility? Dragon knights. No one cares because the dps is great. Sorc dps can be great too, great enough to not care about their utility.

my guild has completed the so speedrun achievement since 1.6. I promise you that focusing on dps is critical to getting the best results. We have been trying to kill him before the pink phase but so far our best is just executing him when it happens.

What game have you been playing where DKs have no Utility? Chains is essential in almost every trial, Magma Shell is an extremely powerful shield that far surpasses the mitigation offered by Negate and Talons are still a far better version of Encase.

And you really think the heal given by the clannfear can compare to Green Dragon's Blood? An ability with no cast time that can be spammed in emergency situations to regain almost your entire health bar... Ok.

Why are you so interested in protecting ZoS, by the way? All I am asking is for them to deliver on their promise. Its been a month of them watching Sorcerers, they should have enough data by now to come talk to us about the class, what can we expect them to change, what will stay the same.

ps, maybe I am just unlucky, but I had the portal spawn under my clannfear in the fight against the Manticora and it dragged both our tanks into the Image room, wiping the raid. It was not fun.

Attorneyatlawl

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

Yesterday, actually. Why do you ask? And sorcs have power surge, arguably one of the best abilities in the entire game, as a class skill . The devs have indeed evaluated the sorc class. I imagine they reached the same conclusion from an objective standpoint and from testing that most did after trying it instead of harping the same forum meme complaints for months: sorcs are great, and while they could benefit from an extra stamina based class skill morph or so perhaps, they are already well balanced and perform on par with the other classes in ESO game-wide including Cyrodiil PVP, and across the board in PVE (trials, dsa, vdsa, dungeons).

Attorneyatlawl

Grao wrote: »

Also, those pets can't be used in trials very safely as they can be targeted by bosses abilities, such as chain lightning on the mage and even the "popcorn" in the Manticora. That not to mention pets take heals away from other party members. ^^

EDIT: By the way, this thread wasn't meant to discuss how good or bad sorcerers are, but to get a reaction from ZoS. We were promised a Q&A with Erik concerning sorcerers over a month ago and that just didn't happened. And considering @ZOS_GinaBruno is ignoring this thread, that promise is, as many of ZoS promises, empty.

Learn to control your pets. I long argued for pet commands for this exact type of reason, and now you can position them manually by using the passive and attack commands at proper times to get them to move as needed. Given that the mantikora follows a very set pattern of attacks, this is easily achieved, similarly as good sorcs do in pvp.

If this was not "intended" for discussion, you should have just sent it as in game comments through the /feedback command. The forums are for discussions, not monologues .

Attorneyatlawl

EDIT: Double post.

pugyourself

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

Yesterday, actually. Why do you ask? And sorcs have power surge, arguably one of the best abilities in the entire game, as a class skill . The devs have indeed evaluated the sorc class. I imagine they reached the same conclusion from an objective standpoint and from testing that most did after trying it instead of harping the same forum meme complaints for months: sorcs are great, and while they could benefit from an extra stamina based class skill morph or so perhaps, they are already well balanced and perform on par with the other classes in ESO game-wide including Cyrodiil PVP, and across the board in PVE (trials, dsa, vdsa, dungeons).

I agree the class is fine...as long as your mates don't mind you bringing inner light and a pet shop on the run.

Jaerlach

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

Where did I said Sorcerer DPS wasn't good? I do believe I said sorcerer tanking and healing was bad and that we have very few class tools for Stamina DPS. Our Magicka DPS is just fine and like your guildies, I can reach the 14-16k mark with my sorcerer depending on the fight.

That doesn't mean the class is fine. We still lack utility, all our class ultimates are extremely selfish witch differs from the other classes in the game that have wide raid buffs, damage mitigation and heals.

I do agree sorc tanking was buffed, I my self am looking into building around that, but our kit still lacks when compared to that of a DK or a Templar. If we were able to actually control when the clannfear taunts we'd be amazing tanks, alas, though that was suggested many times in the forum, we never heard anything from the devs.

Actually, despite @ZOS_GinaBruno many promises, we never heard back from the devs about Sorcerer concerns. Ever. Now a ways, we are just ignored, even by Gina. That is what I am calling attention to with this post... Promises were made and so far, over a month after, we have seen none of those fulfilled. Even the chat with the devs in the forum didn't happen.

Clannfear shouldnt tank. His job is to get in summoned when you need an emergency heal, the way that dks use green dragon blood. The heal is massive.


Atronach synergy is an extremely powerful dps boost for the user. It doesn't provide mitigation but it is a substantial dps bonus for the activator. Negate is still an overwhelming cc Ultimate for pve.


Nothing is wrong with the class except the issued faced by all non templar healers: breath of life is needed for many trials fights.

Few quick things.
1.) Can a tank spend the time to summon the pet in the middle of a fight, and why have a pet if its whole purpose is to be de-summoned?
2.) The atronach synergy is good, however it is rather short and does only help one person, which is fine small scale but the more people involved in the fight the less useful that buff becomes. As for Negate, how often do you notice mobs break cc?

I would have no problem resummoning the clannfear in most fights including trials. The clannfear heals you for 35% of your MAXIMUM HEALTH when unsummoned. For a sorc tank this is a 10k instant heal. It is worth finding a 1s opportunity to recast during phase transitions, etc. It is extremely powerful. Most fights where you would not get a phase transition to recast the effect are also fights where you arent that likely to need it more than once.

The clannfear provides free DPS and then unsummons for a heal that can be as much as 1.5 to 2x the size of green dragon blood. Again, it scales on max health, not missing health like GDB.

There are windows to recast it while doing most of the more difficult tanking tasks in the game - before initiating on serpent image, during serpent poison phases, while kiting Hiath between fire phases, etc.

The skill is really good.

I am not saying the ability is horrible, just that it could be much better.

Also, those pets can't be used in trials very safely as they can be targeted by bosses abilities, such as chain lightning on the mage and even the "popcorn" in the Manticora. That not to mention pets take heals away from other party members. ^^

EDIT: By the way, this thread wasn't meant to discuss how good or bad sorcerers are, but to get a reaction from ZoS. We were promised a Q&A with Erik concerning sorcerers over a month ago and that just didn't happened. And considering @ZOS_GinaBruno is ignoring this thread, that promise is, as many of ZoS promises, empty.

if there is no issue with the class, the promised actions aren't needed.


The taking heals and ability targets issue is over rated. I've taken pet sorcs through so and it is not a problem. I have no problem with sorceror pve utility and I think you're completely wrong to have them run warhorn. You know who has no raid utility? Dragon knights. No one cares because the dps is great. Sorc dps can be great too, great enough to not care about their utility.

my guild has completed the so speedrun achievement since 1.6. I promise you that focusing on dps is critical to getting the best results. We have been trying to kill him before the pink phase but so far our best is just executing him when it happens.

What game have you been playing where DKs have no Utility? Chains is essential in almost every trial, Magma Shell is an extremely powerful shield that far surpasses the mitigation offered by Negate and Talons are still a far better version of Encase.

And you really think the heal given by the clannfear can compare to Green Dragon's Blood? An ability with no cast time that can be spammed in emergency situations to regain almost your entire health bar... Ok.

Why are you so interested in protecting ZoS, by the way? All I am asking is for them to deliver on their promise. Its been a month of them watching Sorcerers, they should have enough data by now to come talk to us about the class, what can we expect them to change, what will stay the same.

ps, maybe I am just unlucky, but I had the portal spawn under my clannfear in the fight against the Manticora and it dragged both our tanks into the Image room, wiping the raid. It was not fun.

Have you ever played a DK tank? If you have all your resources, you can cast green dragon blood maybe 3 times, more likely 2. GDB costs a lot, and tanks have bad resource cost reduction and poor magicka pools. Further, the clannfear heal is instant and huge, far huger than the GDB heal will be under normal circumstances. That heal doesn't cost resources to activate, and it is the single largest instant heal available in the game now. Even a critical breath of life will not hit for as much health as the clannfear heal does on a tank with 30k health. We're talking about 11-12k heals!

What on earth were your tanks doing so close together? Are they idiots? You didn't wipe because of your clannfear, you wiped because your tanks were out of position or because your tactic for Mantikora is bad. Your tanks should never, ever, ever be that close together during that fight, during any phase of it, besides final execute after one person has taken the portal and everyone is grouped up for the final spear phase. I tank this instance very regularly, and letting the tanks come that close together is a gigantic sin for the reasons mentioned. I don't know how things are done on the AD side of the table, but in DC that is a clear, huge mistake by the off tank, who's job is not to be in melee range during the DPS phase.

Chains is an excellent skill thats now a lot less effective becuase of mob CC immunities and its unreliability - if the target is cc immune, the dk will fly out to it.

Magma shell shield has a 2 meter radius and can be activated by 4 people. It is not a strong synergy. Further, damage shields in ESO do not benefit from any mitigation, not blocking, armor, or other reductions. The 8% reduction provided by that morph of negate is a stronger mitigation skill for an entire 12 man party than magma shell in the best of cases. In fact, in Mantikora these days my guild doesn't use Novas or even Veils during the portal phase - the only mitigation skill we use is ring of preservation, which is an identical (8%) damage mitigation. The larger mitigation skills aren't needed before Mantikora dies, since we typically do 2 portal phases, and then send down only 1 person on the 3rd portal to finish executing.

Talons is obviously very powerful, but is not a trials spell at all whatsoever.

s7732425ub17_ESO

People are complaining about DKs having GDB and Sorcs having nothing. Well, they obviously have never played a Sorc, and they obviously do not know what "Hardened Ward" is. Instant 10k shield, costs like 1500 magicka to cast, and can be spammed for survival. If you are in a situation where spamming this is not helping you survive, then no other class will be able to survive either.

Dymence

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm also interested if Eric's team plans on posting their intended direction on the forums. A while ago it was said that they were looking over feedback but didn't have the time to reply that day and would do so on Monday, however we haven't gotten any information since.

Its been over a month that promise was made by @ZOS_GinaBruno and Eric, but ever since its been a complete radio silence. The most we can get from the forum is one of the Mods snipping away at posts and saying "We are very interested on your feedback, but please keep it civil or you will be doomed for life".

I believe their official response back then was that they wouldn't make any drastic changes before tamriel unlimited went live and they wanted us to play and see how it actually is for ourselves, while they keep monitoring the situation?

Also, just because no one takes sorcs to tank trials doesn't mean sorcs are bad tanks. People just jump to the obvious answer which is DK tank and don't really bother thinking about it themselves. Sorc tanks can probably tank any trial right now. Also, what does a templar tank have over a sorc tank exactly?

Actually dpsing, tanking or healing properly as a sorc isn't hard. Getting rid of bad class reputation is hard. But it will probably change in due time.

Templars have amazing instant cast self heals and absurd control over their stamina and magicka. So yes, they are far better tanks.

ANd if you say sorcerers have Dark Conversion to control their resources I will have to say you never played a sorcerer.

Instant cast self heals no single templar tank would ever use due to the absurd mana cost and necessity for magicka spent elsewhere. Sorcs have hardened ward, a shield that shields you for roughly 10k with relatively low mana cost. I'm also not really sure what this "absurd control over stamina and magicka" it is that templars have. Could you enlighten me about this? I'm not too familiar with templars.

Also, dark conversion is only good in PVP. It's pretty trash for PVE. I main a sorcerer, granted not as tank but as DPS and healing on my sorc is my recent hobby.

tplink3r1

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm also interested if Eric's team plans on posting their intended direction on the forums. A while ago it was said that they were looking over feedback but didn't have the time to reply that day and would do so on Monday, however we haven't gotten any information since.

Its been over a month that promise was made by @ZOS_GinaBruno and Eric, but ever since its been a complete radio silence. The most we can get from the forum is one of the Mods snipping away at posts and saying "We are very interested on your feedback, but please keep it civil or you will be doomed for life".

I believe their official response back then was that they wouldn't make any drastic changes before tamriel unlimited went live and they wanted us to play and see how it actually is for ourselves, while they keep monitoring the situation?

Also, just because no one takes sorcs to tank trials doesn't mean sorcs are bad tanks. People just jump to the obvious answer which is DK tank and don't really bother thinking about it themselves. Sorc tanks can probably tank any trial right now. Also, what does a templar tank have over a sorc tank exactly?

Actually dpsing, tanking or healing properly as a sorc isn't hard. Getting rid of bad class reputation is hard. But it will probably change in due time.

Templars have amazing instant cast self heals and absurd control over their stamina and magicka. So yes, they are far better tanks.

ANd if you say sorcerers have Dark Conversion to control their resources I will have to say you never played a sorcerer.

Wich "self heal"? You mean rushed ceremony? The ability that only heal me after 5 casts when my magicka is all gone?

eliisra

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

People are complaining about DKs having GDB and Sorcs having nothing. Well, they obviously have never played a Sorc, and they obviously do not know what "Hardened Ward" is. Instant 10k shield, costs like 1500 magicka to cast, and can be spammed for survival. If you are in a situation where spamming this is not helping you survive, then no other class will be able to survive either.

I'm assuming this thread is about PvE and sorcerers lack of role flexibility. In scenarios like that the Ward is pretty much useless, because it only gives a substantial shield if you're magicka built. Very little extra protection for a sorcerer that's tanking in PvE.

Shields and skills for tanking needs to scale of max health. DK skills like GDB and Igneous Shield does.

Topic: I'm also bother by how little class skills my sorcerer has for healing- and tanking roles. I feel it's the worst class in the game filling these 2 roles sadly. No nice support skills either. ZoS really need to fix that. But as far as dps goes, than sorcerer is in a good spot. I mean, go try magicka dps with a looser templar or NB, those classes with magicka builds are way behind sorcerer dps right now.

Like I don't know what people actually expect. Do they want sorcerers magicka dps to be on par with someone stacking weapon power and fotm spamming 2-Hander? Join the QQ club. There's loads of NB, DK and templars out there that wants the exact same thing, get top dps without going full stamina build.

Valrien

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

So the Clannfear can be considered a reliable heal? The casting time doesn't make a difference? Just want to know, I was told to stay away from that heal because the cast time made it bad.

Jaerlach

Valrien wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Have ZoS dev team really concluded Sorcerers are just fine even though they can't tank well, can't heal at all

I'd have to disagree with these two points. Sorcs can tank just as fine as your average templar. Aside from that, sorcs are also fine healers. I know of several sorcs who have completed vet DSA healing it with their sorc and I am soon going to try the same.

When was the last time you saw or even heard of a Sorcerer tanking SO? Or even AA and Hel Ra? Currently Templars are the second best tanking class in ESO, they have amazing survivability and Stamina control thanks to some of their Class abilities. Sorcerers have Dark Conversion, possibly the worse ability in ESO that works as it is intended.

My GM in DC's most progressed trials guild is a sorc tank, and he tanks vdsa about 5 times a week. Sorc tanking was buffed substantially with the change to unstable clannfear giving them a reliable emergency heal.

Sorceror DPS is in a pretty good place - I have guildmates hitting 13-16k consistently, and they aren't using pets. Incidently, the most successful of them is also using an AA/HRC drop set. Yesterday he hit 13k on the Mage, which is a substantial sustained DPS fight now with the additional health added. Trying a similar build with leveling gear at v8 I was able to hit north of 10k during a vet pledge on Saturday.

Perhaps you haven't figured things out quite as well as you think you have.

I agree that sorc healers lost a bit of their advantage for speedruns, though surge is substantially better for healing than entropy (IMO) since you don't need a target. Sorc DPS is in a pretty good place and I imagine it will be relatively more competitive today than it was yesterday, because sorcerors had a harder time leveraging Valkyn Skoria than some, and if it was nerfed substantially it should bring the NB and DK magicka dps back a bit.

So the Clannfear can be considered a reliable heal? The casting time doesn't make a difference? Just want to know, I was told to stay away from that heal because the cast time made it bad.

You will have to know your fights and practice, but you don't cast the clannfear when you need a heal - if its already out, toggling it off and getting healed is instantaneous.

Its getting the clannfear up that requires a casttime. As a tank, you could only do this before fights, or in fights with built-in transition phases or pauses. However, many fights have these kinds of transitions. You take these opportunities to get the cast time out of the way, keep aggro off the mob so it does not die (and it should get healed while its next to you due to aoe heals), and its free to pop when you need that emergency burst heal.

bg22

Yas, wii need moar buffz! Moar 10k+dps spammable ultimatz! Moar stackin shieldz!