Why need 7 people to use a ram and just 1 to use a trebuchet ?

Charadras

This is my question. I need 6 guild mate for manouver a ram but 7 peoples = 7 trebuchet.
I think the new siege damage system need some change like:
Catapult = need 2 peoples on it to fire at 100% damage and recharge in x (4) second (1 people = 50% damage; +50% recharge time)
Ballista = need 3 people on it to reach 100% damage and recharge in y (7) second (1 people 33% damage + 66% recharge time - 2 peoples 66% damage +33% recharge time)
Trebuchet= need 4 people on it to reach 100% damage and recharge in z (14) second (1 people 25% damage + 75% recharge time - 2 peoples 50% damage +50& recharge time - 3 peoples 75% damage + 25% recharge time)

1. Alone pug can't shot people just firing nonsense;
2. Need organization on siege to fire at max damage;
3. small group (4 - 8) can use siege and kill zerg;
4. No more siege vs siege but an intelligent use of this weapon.

Sorry for my bad english and hope you all discuss on this idea.

Glurin

Charadras wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Ram takes less space and makes quick work of the doors. Seven trebs would take up a ton of ground, spreading your forces out, and have to be way out on the field which makes them vulnerable to enemy siege fire and flanking or attacks from the rear. A bunch of guys on a ram are a little harder to displace than one guy on a treb.

2 ppls are enough to fire with 7 trebuchet. So where are this forces spread?

You can't place trebuchet right next to each other. Seven trebuchet takes up a lot of room with a fair amount of space between them. Meaning these two people are running back and forth between their selection of trebuchet. Also, as much as people like to deny it, one person manning multiple machines is not as effective as one person manning each machine. It will get the job done, of course. But it's just all around better to have somebody in charge of each machine individually.

Tintinabula wrote: »

cause the ram moves.

Ok ram can moves so why 7? 2/3 are enough.[/quote]

The ram will move with three. It moves much faster with seven. Also, seeing as you're getting up close and personal with the door, you're better off with seven people around it anyway to ward off enemy soldiers coming through to kill the operators. The distance of the trebs from the enemy is what keeps them relatively safe, in case you're wondering.

lolo_01b16_ESO

How should small groups take keeps / outposts with that change? It would take ages to break down the wall when you could just use 2 ballistas with a group of 6 people.

Fizzlewizzle

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How should small groups take keeps / outposts with that change? It would take ages to break down the wall when you could just use 2 ballistas with a group of 6 people.

Very simple: Damage should go up by another 500-1000%.

Faugaun

Op your analysis is incorrect 7 players can operate 21 siege weapons...

Charadras

@Faugaun yes you are correct and it's just ridicolous that 1 ppl alone can gear up 4 (if he is lazy) semi automatic Ballista to breach a keep. Small Group can take a resource but a keep need more attackers.

Charadras

@Fizzlewizzle 500% - 1000% is too much but maybe a 100% more damage than actual in walls For a full crew in a sige maybe can work well.

Ryuho

Charadras wrote: »

This is my question. I need 6 guild mate for manouver a ram but 7 peoples = 7 trebuchet.
I think the new siege damage system need some change like:
Catapult = need 2 peoples on it to fire at 100% damage and recharge in x (4) second (1 people = 50% damage; +50% recharge time)
Ballista = need 3 people on it to reach 100% damage and recharge in y (7) second (1 people 33% damage + 66% recharge time - 2 peoples 66% damage +33% recharge time)
Trebuchet= need 4 people on it to reach 100% damage and recharge in z (14) second (1 people 25% damage + 75% recharge time - 2 peoples 50% damage +50& recharge time - 3 peoples 75% damage + 25% recharge time)

1. Alone pug can't shot people just firing nonsense;
2. Need organization on siege to fire at max damage;
3. small group (4 - 8) can use siege and kill zerg;
4. No more siege vs siege but an intelligent use of this weapon.

Sorry for my bad english and hope you all discuss on this idea.

Very nice idea!!

Faugaun

I mean it's really easy to dodge them currently , really really easy ....so it outta be very punishing if you mess up....or make it harder to avoid and less damage....

To me it seems that if a bag o meat is flying at you from 1000 meters away, then you don't hear squat....(I.e. why is there a red circle???)....especially if your in a life or death melee fight .I mean you're focused on the immediate threat not the looming spoiled cow guts about to squash you....maybe a more proximity based system....if you are at the center of the target (current red circle) then you take 20k damage ....make the circle 20 meter radius with a 5% decrease in damage each meter a player moves away from the center of the target....

Oh and siege weapons should do friendly fire...it doesn't make sense that a huge mess o maggoty rotton meat can fall from the sky magically crushing my enemies and completely miss me...who is standing closer to the center of the maggot mess than the enemy...or that the enemy can load into a tower at a resource and my team can take the resource ...but our weapons are magically unable to destroy the building the enemy is turtled in...

Just doesn't make sense logically....

Fizzlewizzle

Charadras wrote: »

@Fizzlewizzle 500% - 1000% is too much but maybe a 100% more damage than actual in walls For a full crew in a sige maybe can work well.

I think it should be based on how many people there will be required to operate it at full power.

I do like the idea... Siege weapons atm seem to do very little against keep walls and such.
Atm you NEED a shitlaod of siege weapons to break through a wall.

Maybe a second thing:
Damage should always be the same. Only Reload time and Aiming time should be different if you don't have enough people.
Although you can convince me that 1 person can't load the same type of "heavy projectile" as 4 people would be able to do together you should know that that isn't how it would originally work with siege weapons.

1 (or 2) person/ people would do the ammunition.
1 (or 2) person/ people would re-arm the weapon after firing.
1 person would be responsible for aiming.
1 person would be responsible for firing.

If a single person would do it then he/she would still use the same ammunition (you can't put a bolt half the normal size in a ballista and expect it to work). They would just take 4 times as long to prepare everything. Basically 25% extra time aiming, and 75% extra reloading.

Dreyloch

I'll just repost my thread here since no one replied to it originally...

I know there are some who are against the recent changes, and some that are for it. What if there were PVP skills for siege? So for instance, at rank 10 your siege will do the same damage as before the change. Then at rank 15 or 20 there is a middle ground between then and what damage is now. At the highest rank you do the same damage we're seeing atm. This could be under the assault tree. This would also effect the rate of fire from the siege your using. Lower level, longer recast etc.

Under the support tree you could have the same level power up's for siege durability.These would all cost skill points as well. IMO this will diversify the damage and maybe help to make it not so much the "go-to" thing for any encounter. Especially in open field fights. i would suggest the champ system for it, but we all know that would be too easy to get maxxed out too quickly.

Just one last thought about it all too. Back in the real world in ancient times, it took more than one person to run a treb. You can't tell me one dude rolled a 2000 lb. boulder onto it and was able to fire it all alone. Trebs having the highest damage should be manned by at least 3-5 ppl. Much like the rams.

So fire away! /flame suit on

AhPook_Is_Here

You might as well ask how you can fit a stack of battering rams in your pocket... is that your battering ram or are you just happy to see me?

Crunch

I agree... Kind of.

I've only died a few times from siege since the changes, and sitting in a ram was one of them. We all died...

With the changes to siege damage, that many people on a ram makes it an easy and desirable target. There's already a lot of damage coming in from the upper keep walls(archers/casters). One person should be able to man a ram.

tonemd

Faugaun wrote: »

I mean it's really easy to dodge them currently , really really easy ....so it outta be very punishing if you mess up....or make it harder to avoid and less damage....

To me it seems that if a bag o meat is flying at you from 1000 meters away, then you don't hear squat....(I.e. why is there a red circle???)....especially if your in a life or death melee fight .I mean you're focused on the immediate threat not the looming spoiled cow guts about to squash you....maybe a more proximity based system....if you are at the center of the target (current red circle) then you take 20k damage ....make the circle 20 meter radius with a 5% decrease in damage each meter a player moves away from the center of the target....

Oh and siege weapons should do friendly fire...it doesn't make sense that a huge mess o maggoty rotton meat can fall from the sky magically crushing my enemies and completely miss me...who is standing closer to the center of the maggot mess than the enemy...or that the enemy can load into a tower at a resource and my team can take the resource ...but our weapons are magically unable to destroy the building the enemy is turtled in...

Just doesn't make sense logically....

Red circles and no team kills make sense in THIS games logic. That is all that is needed. Keep defense would not work if you could not siege AND push out out at the same time. If it helps, pretend the red circle is a "gift of awareness" bestowed upon you by your favorite daedric prince (pick on).

Tankqull

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How should small groups take keeps / outposts with that change? It would take ages to break down the wall when you could just use 2 ballistas with a group of 6 people.

use a ram. its just redicoulus that it is easier to break down a keepwall than ramming the door.

kitsinni

They should do it old school DAOC style. Takes multiple people to bring pieces of siege weapons, takes time to assemble on the field and there is a real cost to it. Seige becomes somewhat rare. Allow people to attack doors with weapons and break them down. I don't really understand why your weapons don't do any damage to doors, I think they should do less than siege but if 50 people are bashing on a door with axes, swords, hammer, fireballs getting thrown at them etc it is going to do damage.

They say they want this to be a war but there are no wars where siege engines are this common.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Well, as soon as there is at least one defender you can't use a ram.

But apart from that, why do you want to encourage zerging? I don't think it would improve the game if we need at least 60 people to take a keep fast (20 ballistas x 3 people).

Charadras

It's write nowhere that you can take a keep fast. You don't need zerg. You need time. And if you zerg defender can break easy Your ass with their siege

Cody

siege is fine as it is.

Glurin

Ram takes less space and makes quick work of the doors. Seven trebs would take up a ton of ground, spreading your forces out, and have to be way out on the field which makes them vulnerable to enemy siege fire and flanking or attacks from the rear. A bunch of guys on a ram are a little harder to displace than one guy on a treb.

Tintinabula

cause the ram moves.

GorraShatan

I want a netch trebuchet that launches packs of netches that will poop acid on your enemies. Screw rams.

Charadras

Glurin wrote: »

Ram takes less space and makes quick work of the doors. Seven trebs would take up a ton of ground, spreading your forces out, and have to be way out on the field which makes them vulnerable to enemy siege fire and flanking or attacks from the rear. A bunch of guys on a ram are a little harder to displace than one guy on a treb.

2 ppls are enough to fire with 7 trebuchet. So where are this forces spread?

Cody wrote: »

siege is fine as it is.

Try to be more constructive pls.

Tintinabula wrote: »

cause the ram moves.

Ok ram can moves so why 7? 2/3 are enough.

Pancake-Tragedy

You only need 3 to use the ram.