New pvp direction?

azoriangaming

So I'm starting a thread to see what everyones opinion is on the new direction of pvp?

My opinion in pvp at the moment is that siege rules the world in keep fights, open field fights and I don't see that much pvp actually happening now at all anymore and I kinda got bored after a little while of playing but the first 20mins or so was fun.

I also think the siege dmg should stay there is no issue with the dmg if you purge and play correctly it's fine but what really grinds my gears are that there is siege everywhere you looking even in the open field no keep in site or resource etc etc

I have to admit there was hardly any lag at all tonight in prime time in thornblade so for me that's a plus if you can deal with the siege vs siege stuff that is going off everywhere around.

I also noticed groups getting bigger and bigger when they noticed that they couldn't handle it with smaller groups which concerns me that it'll bring a bigger zerg mentality in the long run and turn into a numbers game.

So what are your opinions so far?

mananull

PvP today was great. I really enjoy the pvp now.
I led random groups today and the sieges were very intense, much longer and involded a lot of more tactics. A lot more "preparing walls", fake attacks, lure enemys to the wrong keeps or traps etc. Something that was missing lately most of the time.
The territory map is way more constant than before and I like it, it needs more effort to take a keep now.

I also see a lot of "ping-pong". blue attacks ressource of red, get destroyed by siege weapons. Red counter-attack a ressource of blue and get destroyed by siege weapons. Blue counter-attack the same ressource of red and get destroyed... and so forth.
The same guys participated in this were the ones crying loudest about the siege weapon damage...

azoriangaming

mananull wrote: »

PvP today was great. I really enjoy the pvp now.
I led random groups today and the sieges were very intense, much longer and involded a lot of more tactics. A lot more "preparing walls", fake attacks, lure enemys to the wrong keeps or traps etc. Something that was missing lately most of the time.
The territory map is way more constant than before and I like it, it needs more effort to take a keep now.

I also see a lot of "ping-pong". blue attacks ressource of red, get destroyed by siege weapons. Red counter-attack a ressource of blue and get destroyed by siege weapons. Blue counter-attack the same ressource of red and get destroyed... and so forth.
The same guys participated in this were the ones crying loudest about the siege weapon damage...

glad you're enjoying it and yes I agree the siege weapon dmg is perfectly fine as it is and shouldn't change imo, maybe its because I'm not used to such slow paced pvp that I find it to be boring.

c0rp

I also have to say....I saw a significant less amount of server lag on Thornblade yesterday.

azoriangaming

c0rp wrote: »

I also have to say....I saw a significant less amount of server lag on Thornblade yesterday.

yes this is the best thing I've got to admit about the whole siege vs siege wars.

mananull

I also didn't feel that siege weapons dominate openfield battles. Most of the time the losing side is desperatly trying to set up siege weapons and are are failing, because the battle moves to fast.
But I think is is a great addition, if set up siege weapons would take longer, about 5-10 secondes. No auto reload would be great too

azoriangaming

mananull wrote: »

I also didn't feel that siege weapons dominate openfield battles. Most of the time the losing side is desperatly trying to set up siege weapons and are are failing, because the battle moves to fast.
But I think is is a great addition, if set up siege weapons would take longer, about 5-10 secondes. No auto reload would be great too

yes this is a great idea I totally agree with something like that

Fruitdog

c0rp wrote: »

I also have to say....I saw a significant less amount of server lag on Thornblade yesterday.

I did too. Maybe it was due to the new dynamics but it also makes me wonder if they reduced pop caps as well.

azoriangaming

Fruitdog wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

I also have to say....I saw a significant less amount of server lag on Thornblade yesterday.

I did too. Maybe it was due to the new dynamics but it also makes me wonder if they reduced pop caps as well.

Yes I was saying the same to my guildies I hardly saw anyone in pvp compared to the past and the campaign was pop locked on all 3 factions, When I started to queue for the campaign as well I was like 70th in the queue and not seen it that high in a long time.

Fruitdog

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

I also have to say....I saw a significant less amount of server lag on Thornblade yesterday.

I did too. Maybe it was due to the new dynamics but it also makes me wonder if they reduced pop caps as well.

Yes I was saying the same to my guildies I hardly saw anyone in pvp compared to the past and the campaign was pop locked on all 3 factions, When I started to queue for the campaign as well I was like 70th in the queue and not seen it that high in a long time.

The NA EP thorn queue was insane, too. From what I can tell it seemed longer on Monday than at any point during the weekend previous. That's just based on my limited observations though.

azoriangaming

Fruitdog wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

I also have to say....I saw a significant less amount of server lag on Thornblade yesterday.

I did too. Maybe it was due to the new dynamics but it also makes me wonder if they reduced pop caps as well.

Yes I was saying the same to my guildies I hardly saw anyone in pvp compared to the past and the campaign was pop locked on all 3 factions, When I started to queue for the campaign as well I was like 70th in the queue and not seen it that high in a long time.

The NA EP thorn queue was insane, too. From what I can tell it seemed longer on Monday than at any point during the weekend previous. That's just based on my limited observations though.

I dread to think what you're servers have been like over the past month since the release of b2p with the vast majority playing on the U.S servers

Junipus

PvP's new direction is everyone stays together unless they're ganking.

Most nights it's either DC vs AD or DC vs EP or AD vs EP but never more than one at the same time. The only exception is either if DC has Chalman and AD has BRK and everyone's at Arrius, or DC has Roebeck, EP has Sejanus and everyone's at Alessia (vary rarely is everyone at Glade since it's normally taken before the ring keeps).

Hopefully with the recent changes mentioned it will help reduce the necessary mega zerg for each faction.

Until then, enjoy the meteor shower

Phoenix99

hmm, the only change that might help is no auto-reload, instead make it a channel that requires the siege equipment to be manned, if you abandon, it goes down to 0.

other than that (reposting form another thread):

The changes could use some fine tuning, becasue some siege equipment clearly outshines other, so the system needs some more RPS:

Stone treb - add dmg vs structures, lower dmg vs players and especially NPCs - THIS should be the ultimate structure demolishing tool

Fire treb - i would say add even some more dmg vs players and buff vs siege equipment - It should be the ultimate artillery, it has long reload time, long flight time and high arc, which makes it difficult to aim.

Fire ballista - lower dmg vs players and NPCs, buff up dmg vs siege equipment - this should be a very good anti siege tool, it has a very good rate of fire, so giving it very good impactdmg and DoT is a bit over the top

regular ballista - seems fine where it is - it has good rate of fire and does appropriate dmg per shot

lightning ballista - significantly up dmg vs players, low dmg vs buildings and siege eq - this is now outshined by fire ballista for the role this should be at, i.e. anti blob weapon and anti Player field siege weapon, with DoT

scatter shot cata - add a huge buff to dmg vs players - this should be a very good field antiblob, no DoT dmg weapon it should deliver highest impact dmg of all anti personnel siege weapons as it does not have any DoT

meat cata - this could use some love too i think - maybe the heal debuff and DoT buffs should be higher

oil cata - make sure that the effect can't be purged, but it can be prevented if you are immune to snares while being hit (it should add value of preventive buffs, vs spam of mass purges)

oil pots - seem to be ok

siege rams - their dmg vs doors should be buffed highly, it should be a high risk vs high reward tool, as it is, it is only a high risk tool and you are better of with using regular ballistas vs gates

azoriangaming

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

PvP's new direction is everyone stays together unless they're ganking.

Most nights it's either DC vs AD or DC vs EP or AD vs EP but never more than one at the same time. The only exception is either if DC has Chalman and AD has BRK and everyone's at Arrius, or DC has Roebeck, EP has Sejanus and everyone's at Alessia (vary rarely is everyone at Glade since it's normally taken before the ring keeps).

Hopefully with the recent changes mentioned it will help reduce the necessary mega zerg for each faction.

Until then, enjoy the meteor shower

Yes I hope the lag stays away and I hope the zerg mentality doesn't get bad,

Gotta love them meteor showers hehe

azoriangaming

Phoenix99 wrote: »

hmm, the only change that might help is no auto-reload, instead make it a channel that requires the siege equipment to be manned, if you abandon, it goes down to 0.

other than that (reposting form another thread):

The changes could use some fine tuning, becasue some siege equipment clearly outshines other, so the system needs some more RPS:

Stone treb - add dmg vs structures, lower dmg vs players and especially NPCs - THIS should be the ultimate structure demolishing tool

Fire treb - i would say add even some more dmg vs players and buff vs siege equipment - It should be the ultimate artillery, it has long reload time, long flight time and high arc, which makes it difficult to aim.

Fire ballista - lower dmg vs players and NPCs, buff up dmg vs siege equipment - this should be a very good anti siege tool, it has a very good rate of fire, so giving it very good impactdmg and DoT is a bit over the top

regular ballista - seems fine where it is - it has good rate of fire and does appropriate dmg per shot

lightning ballista - significantly up dmg vs players, low dmg vs buildings and siege eq - this is now outshined by fire ballista for the role this should be at, i.e. anti blob weapon and anti Player field siege weapon, with DoT

scatter shot cata - add a huge buff to dmg vs players - this should be a very good field antiblob, no DoT dmg weapon it should deliver highest impact dmg of all anti personnel siege weapons as it does not have any DoT

meat cata - this could use some love too i think - maybe the heal debuff and DoT buffs should be higher

oil cata - make sure that the effect can't be purged, but it can be prevented if you are immune to snares while being hit (it should add value of preventive buffs, vs spam of mass purges)

oil pots - seem to be ok

siege rams - their dmg vs doors should be buffed highly, it should be a high risk vs high reward tool, as it is, it is only a high risk tool and you are better of with using regular ballistas vs gates

Yes I love this concept I think it could work very well.

ThyIronFist

Me and my guildies had a great afternoon and a great night of PvP, most of the fights we had, open world that is, was mostly players fighting players, yes there are some siege weapons here and there, but you can easily avoid the red circle on the ground and kill the guy operating it. No big deal.

I was on Thornblade this afternoon, EU, usually it's always unplayable for me unless in the morning/late night, but it was great. Good PvP between keeps, no lag, people not blobbing up like a bunch of halfwits, it is great. On Haderus prime time, the past couple of days it's been lagging every evening, with the siege change, the lag has been reduced a lot it felt like it.

Also I've been hit many a time today with a firebolt ballista and/or firepot trebuchet, if you get hit by a single siege as a non-vamp you should easily be able to survive, I could just Igneous Shield + Rally heal and didn't have to worry at all. I have 24.5k hp.

I feel siege is in a perfect spot now, flaming oil melts people, vampires usually instadie. It's great. Objectives are a challenge to take, but if the attacker outnumbers the defender, defending can be quite a challenge as well. People need to use tactics now and counter siege, and it's fun

azoriangaming

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Me and my guildies had a great afternoon and a great night of PvP, most of the fights we had, open world that is, was mostly players fighting players, yes there are some siege weapons here and there, but you can easily avoid the red circle on the ground and kill the guy operating it. No big deal.

I was on Thornblade this afternoon, EU, usually it's always unplayable for me unless in the morning/late night, but it was great. Good PvP between keeps, no lag, people not blobbing up like a bunch of halfwits, it is great. On Haderus prime time, the past couple of days it's been lagging every evening, with the siege change, the lag has been reduced a lot it felt like it.

Also I've been hit many a time today with a firebolt ballista and/or firepot trebuchet, if you get hit by a single siege as a non-vamp you should easily be able to survive, I could just Igneous Shield + Rally heal and didn't have to worry at all. I have 24.5k hp.

I feel siege is in a perfect spot now, flaming oil melts people, vampires usually instadie. It's great. Objectives are a challenge to take, but if the attacker outnumbers the defender, defending can be quite a challenge as well. People need to use tactics now and counter siege, and it's fun

I must've just had a bad evening lol I couldn't hardly find pvp through the abundance of siege at prime time I was at ash and we was just constantly back and forth between ash and nikel, I totally agree with the thornblade is now playable and I hope it stays that way and yes the siege is survivable if you play correctly.

Junipus

1. Setup 6 fire ballista inside a keep aimed at the breach
2. Wait until the zerg moves to the breach
3. Fire
4. Laugh
5. Profit?

azoriangaming

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

1. Setup 6 fire ballista inside a keep aimed at the breach
2. Wait until the zerg moves to the breach
3. Fire
4. Laugh
5. Profit?

lol yes this happened a lot with us wiping AD was funny for like 20mins or so

ZOS_BrianWheeler

Pop caps were not reduced.

Phoenix99

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

1. Setup 6 fire ballista inside a keep aimed at the breach
2. Wait until the zerg moves to the breach
3. Fire
4. Laugh
5. Profit?

well people tend to forget, that organized sieges should take more than just one section of a wall, if you will punch out 2-3 walls, like during real sieges, suddenly defender is the one needing to spread out instead of focus firing... it is funny, how people forget what was learned during first couple of months after launch.... people were always breaking at least 2 sections of the walls, best if one could be a flanking one and then the keep itself was getting rekt from main gate and postern wall... it took longer time, but attrition would do its numbers, also, tents should reappear more often now.

I have no idea why people try to blob through one wall breach, it is obvious that an organized defender will have the breach under constant fire with some tankss holding them at the breach

Hypertionb14_ESO

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

mananull wrote: »

I also didn't feel that siege weapons dominate openfield battles. Most of the time the losing side is desperatly trying to set up siege weapons and are are failing, because the battle moves to fast.
But I think is is a great addition, if set up siege weapons would take longer, about 5-10 secondes. No auto reload would be great too

yes this is a great idea I totally agree with something like that

lack of auto reload, that makes sense and would stop one guy from being able to operate 3+ seige at once.

Junipus

Phoenix99 wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

1. Setup 6 fire ballista inside a keep aimed at the breach
2. Wait until the zerg moves to the breach
3. Fire
4. Laugh
5. Profit?

well people tend to forget, that organized sieges should take more than just one section of a wall, if you will punch out 2-3 walls, like during real sieges, suddenly defender is the one needing to spread out instead of focus firing... it is funny, how people forget what was learned during first couple of months after launch.... people were always breaking at least 2 sections of the walls, best if one could be a flanking one and then the keep itself was getting rekt from main gate and postern wall... it took longer time, but attrition would do its numbers, also, tents should reappear more often now.

I have no idea why people try to blob through one wall breach, it is obvious that an organized defender will have the breach under constant fire with some tankss holding them at the breach

That was how it used to be purely because players used to hurl themselves repeatedly at one breach and respawn at the constant, never-ending camps before realising it wasn't going to work and trying with a second or third breach. Now that people have to run back from the nearest keep there really only needs to be one breach since it's do or die. With the new changes in siege it's still do or die but mostly just die. Eventually people will make changes to how they siege, but that still work work when you can stick defending ground siege everywhere inside the main keep and defend that way. Spread the archers and range DPS around a little to pick off smaller groups and taking a keep will be a monumental task during prime time.

I can easily see the map only really changing colour during night time or daytime when fewer players are online. Or on buff servers where there's little organised opposition.

Faugaun

reason the pop is locked is because cyrodil dailies are the new pve grind...that and trials...

Happy hunting!

azoriangaming

Faugaun wrote: »

reason the pop is locked is because cyrodil dailies are the new pve grind...that and trials...

Happy hunting!

sadly this is true

azoriangaming

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Pop caps were not reduced.

Thanks Brian for the information

Sublime

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

reason the pop is locked is because cyrodil dailies are the new pve grind...that and trials...

Happy hunting!

sadly this is true

Don Forget that any EXP grind spot in Cyrodiil is also an AP grind spot. ;P

On a more serious note, I think 2.0.2 overall is a great patch, yes the siege damage hurts, but i think that's mainly because it takes some time to get used to it. The suggested change to increase the time to set up siege to ~5s seems like a solid solution to me.
Apart from that I had close to zero lag today, which is a huge plus for ZOS, the fact that keeps became harder to take if they are defended properly isn't a bad thing either. Once we breached the west side of Ash but couldn't get into the inner ring due to the defensive siege, so we ended up smashing the main gate and took out the defenders with a surprise attack from behind. Giving tactics such a huge importance in fights for a single keep is one of the best things of this patch for me.

#BrianForEmperor

azoriangaming

Sublime wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

reason the pop is locked is because cyrodil dailies are the new pve grind...that and trials...

Happy hunting!

sadly this is true

Don Forget that any EXP grind spot in Cyrodiil is also an AP grind spot. ;P

On a more serious note, I think 2.0.2 overall is a great patch, yes the siege damage hurts, but i think that's mainly because it takes some time to get used to it. The suggested change to increase the time to set up siege to ~5s seems like a solid solution to me.
Apart from that I had close to zero lag today, which is a huge plus for ZOS, the fact that keeps became harder to take if they are defended properly isn't a bad thing either. Once we breached the west side of Ash but couldn't get into the inner ring due to the defensive siege, so we ended up smashing the main gate and took out the defenders with a surprise attack from behind. Giving tactics such a huge importance in fights for a single keep is one of the best things of this patch for me.

#BrianForEmperor

Yes I also like how they've made it more tactical as well you have to be more aware of your surroundings whilst sieging a keep wall down.

FallenProphet

Phoenix99 wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

1. Setup 6 fire ballista inside a keep aimed at the breach
2. Wait until the zerg moves to the breach
3. Fire
4. Laugh
5. Profit?

well people tend to forget, that organized sieges should take more than just one section of a wall, if you will punch out 2-3 walls, like during real sieges, suddenly defender is the one needing to spread out instead of focus firing... it is funny, how people forget what was learned during first couple of months after launch.... people were always breaking at least 2 sections of the walls, best if one could be a flanking one and then the keep itself was getting rekt from main gate and postern wall... it took longer time, but attrition would do its numbers, also, tents should reappear more often now.

>>>I have no idea why people try to blob through one wall breach<<<, it is obvious that an organized defender will have the breach under constant fire with some tankss holding them at the breach

Because
1. Low population
2. Smaller scale fights (just a few groups on each side) being the most common fights that some players encounter

Causing "Single Breach" keep assaults to be the most effective META in those cases.

It's War, you have to keep adapting as the rules change, remember all's fair.

azoriangaming

FallenProphet wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

1. Setup 6 fire ballista inside a keep aimed at the breach
2. Wait until the zerg moves to the breach
3. Fire
4. Laugh
5. Profit?

well people tend to forget, that organized sieges should take more than just one section of a wall, if you will punch out 2-3 walls, like during real sieges, suddenly defender is the one needing to spread out instead of focus firing... it is funny, how people forget what was learned during first couple of months after launch.... people were always breaking at least 2 sections of the walls, best if one could be a flanking one and then the keep itself was getting rekt from main gate and postern wall... it took longer time, but attrition would do its numbers, also, tents should reappear more often now.

>>>I have no idea why people try to blob through one wall breach<<<, it is obvious that an organized defender will have the breach under constant fire with some tankss holding them at the breach

Because
1. Low population
2. Smaller scale fights (just a few groups on each side) being the most common fights that some players encounter

Causing "Single Breach" keep assaults to be the most effective META in those cases.

It's War, you have to keep adapting as the rules change, remember all's fair.

all's fair in love and war

Sotha_Sil

Yes these changes were needed. What I see from comments is that people find it amazing how it is now with siege weapons damage. But nothing has changed actually, it was kind of the same last year so it's nothing new really... it is just an upgrade to keep it as it previously was.

Concerning lag, it's far too easy to say "this patch fixed lag" as no technical improvements have been made. It's really not enough on our side to compare and have a true opinion about it. Several factors were pointed out : Cyrodiil pve quests might have attracted more pvers in the zone meaning less people on the zerg whereas pop was locked. Maybe yesterday was not a three factions fighting time, who knows ?

I really hope this doesn't become the end of Cyrodiil improvements until june...