Is melee even possible anymore?

Magus

Salty DK tank checking in. Yes, it is easy to avoid siege red circles if you are kiting and ranged DPS. The minute you try to engage the enemy in melee and tank, you are immediately hit by siege and since you are actually fighting, and don't hit purge within 0.5 seconds, you are dead.

I adjusted to the 1.6 meta of light armor being garbage, actually enjoyed my heavy armor build in 1.6 more than my light armor build in 1.5. Now that build is out the window, guess I should pick up a bow and pew pew with everyone else?

Why can't we have the damage scaled to how it was in 1.5? Why did we have to overshoot the damage buff without slowly adjusting it up until it hit the right balance?

Is the game for ganker NBs and pew pew bow users with the occasional 2hander to uppercut you, and everyone else on siege?

PainfulFAFA

Magus wrote: »

Salty DK tank checking in. Yes, it is easy to avoid siege red circles if you are kiting and ranged DPS. The minute you try to engage the enemy in melee and tank, you are immediately hit by siege and since you are actually fighting, and don't hit purge within 0.5 seconds, you are dead.

I adjusted to the 1.6 meta of light armor being garbage, actually enjoyed my heavy armor build in 1.6 more than my light armor build in 1.5. Now that build is out the window, guess I should pick up a bow and pew pew with everyone else?

Why can't we have the damage scaled to how it was in 1.5? Why did we have to overshoot the damage buff without slowly adjusting it up until it hit the right balance?

Is the game for ganker NBs and pew pew bow users with the occasional 2hander to uppercut you, and everyone else on siege?

You don't like that fact that you can't heal through the fire damage and what not from siege.
Word of advice, next time you see a ballista and enemies coming at you, i suggest you get out of range and let them come to you. Old DK tactics are old.

As for the pew pew bow users, almost 90% of bow users are absolutely squishy if u bring the fight to them. They are geared up in such as way to increase their damage output but not their defenses. For Pete's sake, youre a freaken DK flap flap those arrows back.

As for the 2H, theyre going to CRIT rush you, followed by Wrecking blow. Again you're a DK either you petrify them, cinder storm them, or stonefist them. AS a dK you have plenty of abilties that will drain their stamina leaving them open to a swift kill.

In essence, L2P.

Magus

Again, had no issues with all the bows and 2 hander on my DK. Adjusted my build completely for 1.6, easily tanked them on Sunday. Come Monday, siege makes it so if you actually tank and AOE, you will get one shot by siege. Thus, no reason to be a tank, should just get on my shield stacking sorc and burst DPS people down.

Magus

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

You don't like that fact that you can't heal through the fire damage and what not from siege.
Word of advice, next time you see a ballista and enemies coming at you, i suggest you get out of range and let them come to you. Old DK tactics are old.

If you didn't catch that, I already knew that from playing for 5 minutes. So, now I just get to stand behind a siege line and hope the enemy comes out? Wait for the wall to come down, and then? Rush in and try to tank/melee and get one shot then by siege on the top of the keep?

1v1 isn't an issue, 1v6 isn't an issue, it's 1v1 + siege that is an issue. If you thought it was bad before with everyone standing back and afraid to push anything, this is going to be even worse.

PainfulFAFA

Magus wrote: »

Again, had no issues with all the bows and 2 hander on my DK. Adjusted my build completely for 1.6, easily tanked them on Sunday. Come Monday, siege makes it so if you actually tank and AOE, you will get one shot by siege. Thus, no reason to be a tank, should just get on my shield stacking sorc and burst DPS people down.

You can always purge away the fire and continue your tanking.
or tank inside a bubble?

DKs before could tank up to 10 people and that's the way DK's liked it until Monday when all 1 person has to do is hit them with fire ballista. I see no problem with that.

As for a sorcerer, their greatest weakness is 2H and Bow users and since you already mentioned pew pew bows and 2H uppercuts we'll see how that works out for you.. xD

Magus wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

You don't like that fact that you can't heal through the fire damage and what not from siege.
Word of advice, next time you see a ballista and enemies coming at you, i suggest you get out of range and let them come to you. Old DK tactics are old.

If you didn't catch that, I already knew that from playing for 5 minutes. So, now I just get to stand behind a siege line and hope the enemy comes out? Wait for the wall to come down, and then? Rush in and try to tank/melee and get one shot then by siege on the top of the keep?

1v1 isn't an issue, 1v6 isn't an issue, it's 1v1 + siege that is an issue. If you thought it was bad before with everyone standing back and afraid to push anything, this is going to be even worse.

Throw a bubble on that wall breach, and just to be extra safe, have purge ready on your bar. Problem solved.

Magus

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

PainfulFAFA

Magus wrote: »

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

To be fair, 1.6 has been out for less than a month. People are still trying builds and testing them on PVP.
You need to give it time for people to come up with good builds/counter builds.

Magus

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

To be fair, 1.6 has been out for less than a month. People are still trying builds and testing them on PVP.
You need to give it time for people to come up with good builds/counter builds.

Right and I tested a DK stamina build with 2h and bow. Absolutely lethal but mostly single target DPS. I prefer to tank and do AOE, which isn't viable anymore. I'll adapt but I am very salty about the change since my preferred playstyle does not work.

Magus

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Throw a bubble on that wall breach, and just to be extra safe, have purge ready on your bar. Problem solved.

Well you got a point. I guess I can still tank but do absolutely no damage. Put on the heartland set, siege bubble myself, wings once, talon once, purge once, and be out of all resources lol.

Magus

double post.

bosmern_ESO

*cough* Dominion heavy armor *cough*

Magus

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

*cough* Dominion heavy armor *cough*

Yeah I just mentioned that set 3 minutes ago

bosmern_ESO

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

To be fair, 1.6 has been out for less than a month. People are still trying builds and testing them on PVP.
You need to give it time for people to come up with good builds/counter builds.

Or you can find the build yourself and not wait for others.

cozmon3c_ESO

Magus wrote: »

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

i find single target to be a blast. if you are aoe specced this update is going to kill you. you were one of the contributors to lag. adjust and the game will improve with less of your aoe blob spam. just saying, nothing against you.

Magus

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

i find single target to be a blast. if you are aoe specced this update is going to kill you. you were one of the contributors to lag. adjust and the game will improve with less of your aoe blob spam. just saying, nothing against you.

We could just go all the way and have a server with no abilities, just use light and heavy weapon attacks and siege weapons. It is after all what is in the promo video. I was never an impulse or healing springs spammer and don't blob. Usually have 10-16 in my group.

Snit

People will learn what the range is for siege, and they'll no longer chase to the door.

For the times when you actually have to charge through a breach, you'll need to be organized about it. Purges, Retreating Maneuvers, Heals, etc.

The counter for siege is probably 20% "put different stuff on your bar" and 80% group organization.

PainfulFAFA

Magus wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Throw a bubble on that wall breach, and just to be extra safe, have purge ready on your bar. Problem solved.

Well you got a point. I guess I can still tank but do absolutely no damage. Put on the heartland set, siege bubble myself, wings once, talon once, purge once, and be out of all resources lol.

You can tank, or DPS, but you can't do both. That'd be OP lol.
So the problem is running out of resources. You might wanna start using food to buff up your pools and invest in gear that ups your resource regeneration.

Head.hunter

People are saying 2h is way more effective than it used to be. Might have to try it out myself. Charge was always very effective against foes with low armor. Almost 1 shoted a few sorcs.

technohic

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

i find single target to be a blast. if you are aoe specced this update is going to kill you. you were one of the contributors to lag. adjust and the game will improve with less of your aoe blob spam. just saying, nothing against you.

Just curious; how does single target save you from siege? Or do you mean just don't cluster up spamming AOE? I just don't see how performing AOE actions alone with affect this.

Magus

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Throw a bubble on that wall breach, and just to be extra safe, have purge ready on your bar. Problem solved.

Well you got a point. I guess I can still tank but do absolutely no damage. Put on the heartland set, siege bubble myself, wings once, talon once, purge once, and be out of all resources lol.

You can tank, or DPS, but you can't do both. That'd be OP lol.
So the problem is running out of resources. You might wanna start using food to buff up your pools and invest in gear that ups your resource regeneration.

Yes, I could do both. I did not run out of resource and used V10 purple food. I was just saying using heartland set does not give good regen like my current sets do. Not sure why you still think I am a noob.

Magus

technohic wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

I guess if everyone moves to single target DPS and siege weapons there will be less lag but wow, where is the fun in that.

Also had no issues with 2h and bow users on sorc. I only mentioned those because that's what most people are running now. There is less build diversity now.

i find single target to be a blast. if you are aoe specced this update is going to kill you. you were one of the contributors to lag. adjust and the game will improve with less of your aoe blob spam. just saying, nothing against you.

Just curious; how does single target save you from siege? Or do you mean just don't cluster up spamming AOE? I just don't see how performing AOE actions alone with affect this.

He means don't cluster up. The siege will be where there are big groups of people. You don't tank one person. If you charge in, talons, reflect, batswarm, etc. You will die. This isn't a L2P issue; it's an overreaction to nerfed siege damage. If you change a major mechanic, you have to adapt to it. I will adapt to it, so will everyone else. It will result in people standing 50m away from the keep, shooting each other with siege until the defense side stealths up and hits the siege line from behind, which is where DKs will have to be standing now to defend the siegers. This will be more realistic I guess and make a lot of very bad players feel more powerful but sadly it is less fun for more skilled players. The zerg is more powerful now because they have more numbers - and more siege.

Junipus

WTS Alliance Heavy Armour - 1 bazillion gold each

Magus

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

WTS Alliance Heavy Armour - 1 bazillion gold each

Already have a set that I will have to give a try and then curse when I'm out of magicka after 5 spells because that set has no magicka regen or spell cost reduction.

Scotia

I think siege damage is too high, and needs to be brought down maybe 10 to 15 percent, not much more than that.

Domander

Magus wrote: »

Salty DK tank checking in. Yes, it is easy to avoid siege red circles if you are kiting and ranged DPS. The minute you try to engage the enemy in melee and tank, you are immediately hit by siege and since you are actually fighting, and don't hit purge within 0.5 seconds, you are dead.

I adjusted to the 1.6 meta of light armor being garbage, actually enjoyed my heavy armor build in 1.6 more than my light armor build in 1.5. Now that build is out the window, guess I should pick up a bow and pew pew with everyone else?

Why can't we have the damage scaled to how it was in 1.5? Why did we have to overshoot the damage buff without slowly adjusting it up until it hit the right balance?

Is the game for ganker NBs and pew pew bow users with the occasional 2hander to uppercut you, and everyone else on siege?

You need to use a bit of strategy and go around to flank the siege if you want to melee, melee is exceptionally good at doing it, and it helps everybody because it takes out some siege. You can also rush siege. If there's players on siege, you should probably disable them before fighting others, lol.

Magus

Domander wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Salty DK tank checking in. Yes, it is easy to avoid siege red circles if you are kiting and ranged DPS. The minute you try to engage the enemy in melee and tank, you are immediately hit by siege and since you are actually fighting, and don't hit purge within 0.5 seconds, you are dead.

I adjusted to the 1.6 meta of light armor being garbage, actually enjoyed my heavy armor build in 1.6 more than my light armor build in 1.5. Now that build is out the window, guess I should pick up a bow and pew pew with everyone else?

Why can't we have the damage scaled to how it was in 1.5? Why did we have to overshoot the damage buff without slowly adjusting it up until it hit the right balance?

Is the game for ganker NBs and pew pew bow users with the occasional 2hander to uppercut you, and everyone else on siege?

You need to use a bit of strategy and go around to flank the siege if you want to melee, melee is exceptionally good at doing it, and it helps everybody because it takes out some siege.

Yep I mentioned that later on in the thread but that's only when on the defense side of the keep. Groups will stealth up and start at one end of the siege and train them down still, while having the benefit of amazing siege damage from the wall, from the people afraid of dying.

WebBull

Well I am very happy with the increase in siege damage however after trying out last night I do think it is slightly over the top. I do think the OP has a point. Tanks are going to be in the front line of siege much more than bow/casters are, simple as that. Couple things I would suggest.

- Now that siege damage has increased significantly, there is no longer a need for it to ignore armor. Heavy armor should not be taking as much damage as the back row medium and light armor folks.

- Make the friendly siege circle green. In small areas are breaches it is impossible to tell if it is friendly or enemy fire.

Btw, this siege change is a NB's dream, all these players on siege just sitting there waiting to be ambushed

halfbadger

if you were not in a zerg you probably wouldn't be hit by siege

Magus

Really just haven't been happy with the change of direction since the removal of forward camps.

WebBull wrote: »

Well I am very happy with the increase in siege damage however after trying out last night I do think it is slightly over the top. I do think the OP has a point. Tanks are going to be in the front line of siege much more than bow/casters are, simple as that. Couple things I would suggest.

- Now that siege damage has increased significantly, there is no longer a need for it to ignore armor. Heavy armor should not be taking as much damage as the back row medium and light armor folks.

- Make the friendly siege circle green. In small areas are breaches it is impossible to tell if it is friendly or enemy fire.

Btw, this siege change is a NB's dream, all these players on siege just sitting there waiting to be ambushed

I agree with your suggestions, armor should mitigate it. Green circles, yes please. Agree that NBs are loving this change.

Cody

I saw some DK tanks today, and they were pretty dang good. took me hitting them with fear to finally bring them down:)

Hypertionb14_ESO

Magus wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

You don't like that fact that you can't heal through the fire damage and what not from siege.
Word of advice, next time you see a ballista and enemies coming at you, i suggest you get out of range and let them come to you. Old DK tactics are old.

If you didn't catch that, I already knew that from playing for 5 minutes. So, now I just get to stand behind a siege line and hope the enemy comes out? Wait for the wall to come down, and then? Rush in and try to tank/melee and get one shot then by siege on the top of the keep?

1v1 isn't an issue, 1v6 isn't an issue, it's 1v1 + siege that is an issue. If you thought it was bad before with everyone standing back and afraid to push anything, this is going to be even worse.

or you could use your hopefully nearly 40k hp pool and operate a counter seige in those fights... high health and tanky is the way to go if you are going to use siege now.

if you are "tanky" but dont have at least 30k, then you are probably doing something wrong in PvP... Tanky isnt about taking no damage while dishing it out, its about taking as little as possible while OTHERs dish it out....