Justice System - Open World PVP

Cagro

Are there been any news when the developers will implement the PVP part of the Justice System? I am excited because apparently this is as close as we ever going to get to open world PVP.

Kragorn

Hopefully never.

vovus69

I hope they never will do this.

starkerealm

I've read two things.

One: that the system was supposed to be introduced in phases, and the PvP component is coming with the next update... so probably this fall.

Two: there were issues with getting the PvP components working and there was a real question of if it would ever see the light of day.

I don't know which of these is true, though.

Gilvoth

im excited and cant wait
i hope is as soon as tomorrow

WraithAzraiel

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

im excited and cant wait
i hope is as soon as tomorrow

...not sure if sarcasm as ZOS has mentioned multiple times that they will not be releasing any new content before the console release in June.

vkayne_ESO

This will never be implemented without an opt-out system for those not wanting to participate, i.e. flagging for it.

Other option is a separate server for open.

Hocofaisan

Questions:

How will Stealth work in PVE zones: Currently Stealth doesn't work whatsoever in PVE zones. And when teamed with people or not you can see them at all times.

This will have to be radically changed for Open World PVP.

Guild and Friend ports: Right now my guildmates know I steal upwards of 30k in items a day. I would be a lucrative mark for them. They can right now SEE WHERE I AM USING THE FRIENDS LIST AND THE GUILD LIST. and just Port to the area I am at and find me easily.

This would have to be radically altered for Open World PVP.


Honestly, a many many people simply abhor PVP (I used to be a top PVP player in DAoC when I was younger, I don't PVP anymroe) and it will turn them off. The PVP really needs to be implimented WELL in Cyrodiil, and not move into the PVE zones. The Justice PVP should remain in the Imperial City, with a bonus to stolen value to attract PVE thieves like myself.

This is just my IMO. Don't waste your time insulting me.

Greevir

If this system is put into place there is already an opt out for it. Don't steal or better yet, don't get caught stealing.

reften

simple - if guards are chasing you and trying to kill you, players should be able to help the guards.

I also believe there needs to be a separate zone that is 100% PvP, with as mentioned stealth in a PvP environment actually working for players of the same alliance. But the only players you can attack are those that have a bounty. Players that don't want to PvP can just avoid this zone just the same as they avoid Cyrodiil.

Make items that can be stolen/pickpocketed significantly more valuable in the this area too.

Cagro

Kragorn wrote: »

Hopefully never.

vovus69 wrote: »

I hope they never will do this.

I respect your position but some people get bored playing against the AI. I like the PVE's story but with the excitement of PVP combined. There is no fun for me to beat NPC that is just waiting for me to kill it.

Robbmrp

Cagro wrote: »

Are there been any news when the developers will implement the PVP part of the Justice System? I am excited because apparently this is as close as we ever going to get to open world PVP.

They should add it with PVP flags that people can turn on or off just like hurting the innocents for the Justice System.

If you don't want to participate in world PVP then turn it off. Just because there are people out there that don't want this, doesn't mean that those who do should not be able to enjoy it.

Hocofaisan

Greevir wrote: »

If this system is put into place there is already an opt out for it. Don't steal or better yet, don't get caught stealing.

Some people have emotional problems and some even detest the sight of pvp as it disturbs thieir enjoyment.
Even opting out, they would still be greeted by the visuals of people Camping Refuges, and changes in the PVE Stealth Mechanic and PVE Group/Friend/Guild Port Mechanics.

Justice PVP really needs to be in a seperate zone, imo of course.

How about a discussion on how to address the Stealth and Teleport issues in a way that would not be disruptive to PVE players if Open world Justice PVP was to be implimented?

Tandor

I dread the day, and hope it never happens.

BBSooner

Cagro wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

Hopefully never.

vovus69 wrote: »

I hope they never will do this.

I respect your position but some people get bored playing against the AI. I like the PVE's story but with the excitement of PVP combined. There is no fun for me to beat NPC that is just waiting for me to kill it.

Agreed. I really would love the dynamic between criminals and enforcers. More things that aren't so "on rails" and more like the justice system would be very much appreciated.

Gilvoth

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

im excited and cant wait
i hope is as soon as tomorrow

...not sure if sarcasm as .

oh i can assure you my comments are not sarcasm
i love open world pvp mmos and i love what they have planed here in eso for the justice system.

Tandor

Greevir wrote: »

If this system is put into place there is already an opt out for it. Don't steal or better yet, don't get caught stealing.

That isn't an opt out of PvP, it is an opt out of the entire Justice System including its existing PvE content as well as its obvious future link to the Thieves Guild, and which is conducted in a PvE area of the world. Only if ZOS provide a specific opt-out of just the PvP element will that be a solution for those who want to PvE in PvE areas without the imposition of PvP outside of Cyrodiil.

Gilvoth

Robbmrp wrote: »

Cagro wrote: »

Are there been any news when the developers will implement the PVP part of the Justice System? I am excited because apparently this is as close as we ever going to get to open world PVP.

They should add it with PVP flags that people can turn on or off

you can opt out of the justice system just like turning off hurting innocents. if you dont like open world pvp then this is ok for you as all you need to do is turn it off.
but if your like me and love open world pvp then just turn it on and its good to go.
i cant wait for it to take place and be patch ready, i have been waiting for this for a long long long time.

Xeniph

This is coming, as stated before by many devs on the ESO live show.
The system also has an "Opt-out" option...Don't become a criminal. Basically don't steal and get caught and you won't be flagged. Seems totally appropriate to me.

Putting it in a diff zone would defeat the purpose. Stealing with the current system has no down side. My level 10 can run from guards all day and suffer no real consequence.

BBSooner

Tandor wrote: »

Greevir wrote: »

If this system is put into place there is already an opt out for it. Don't steal or better yet, don't get caught stealing.

That isn't an opt out of PvP, it is an opt out of the entire Justice System including its existing PvE content as well as its obvious future link to the Thieves Guild, and which is conducted in a PvE area of the world. Only if ZOS provide a specific opt-out of just the PvP element will that be a solution for those who want to PvE in PvE areas without the imposition of PvP outside of Cyrodiil.

I doubt the PvP would be activated without a PvE barrier sequence. Very likely enforcers won't be able to get involved unless you have "heat" and are already KOS by guards. I realize that you don't want any interaction with a player, even if you murder a citizen and then flee from guards, but if it gets added I'd be inclined to warn both sides of the debate to be prepared to have concessions made since it will neither be as open nor strict as one side or the other wishes.

Hocofaisan

No one has even attempted to address the Stealth issue and the Teleport issues.

Both Stealth and Teleport would have to be completely rebuilt IMO.

I honestly think that these are two of the major points that held back the roll out of Open world justice PvP.

EDIT: Someone brings up the issue of the Thieves guild and The Brootherhood. Two PVE questlines that will be affected by Open World PVP, how will PVE players feel being locked out of that content due to mandatory pvp involvement?

nerevarine1138

Justice PvP will not be the same as true open-world PvP, in that there's no free-for-all component to it.

And there's no need to opt out of a system you don't have to participate in in the first place. But there's a lot of reasons to not allow thieves the option of getting away with easy crimes by letting them avoid the PvP portion of the system.

Hocofaisan

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And there's no need to opt out of a system you don't have to participate in in the first place. But there's a lot of reasons to not allow thieves the option of getting away with easy crimes by letting them avoid the PvP portion of the system.

Please detail the "lot of reasons," you can't just throw a fragment out there, this isn't FOX NEWS

Tandor

BBSooner wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Greevir wrote: »

If this system is put into place there is already an opt out for it. Don't steal or better yet, don't get caught stealing.

That isn't an opt out of PvP, it is an opt out of the entire Justice System including its existing PvE content as well as its obvious future link to the Thieves Guild, and which is conducted in a PvE area of the world. Only if ZOS provide a specific opt-out of just the PvP element will that be a solution for those who want to PvE in PvE areas without the imposition of PvP outside of Cyrodiil.

I doubt the PvP would be activated without a PvE barrier sequence. Very likely enforcers won't be able to get involved unless you have "heat" and are already KOS by guards. I realize that you don't want any interaction with a player, even if you murder a citizen and then flee from guards, but if it gets added I'd be inclined to warn both sides of the debate to be prepared to have concessions made since it will neither be as open nor strict as one side or the other wishes.

You're probably right on that, and unfortunately it's the price to be paid for having single mega-servers rather than multiple servers with different PvE and PvP rulesets. If we had those I don't know who would be the happier, those who could have Open World PvP throughout the game, or those who could participate in the entirety of the Justice System and Cyrodiil's PvE content without being forced into PvP. Hey, we could even have a few servers with an AH ruleset, how cool would that be ?!

nerevarine1138

Hocofaisan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And there's no need to opt out of a system you don't have to participate in in the first place. But there's a lot of reasons to not allow thieves the option of getting away with easy crimes by letting them avoid the PvP portion of the system.

Please detail the "lot of reasons," you can't just throw a fragment out there, this isn't FOX NEWS

1. People can exploit NPC guard behavior to ensure they almost never get caught when they have a bounty. This is already happening.
2. People cannot exploit player behavior in the same fashion. So having a bounty is no longer a trivial matter.
3. People like doing things the easy way. So if thieves are given two options, one of which involves always getting away with it, guess which one they'll choose.

That's the basic gist of it.

Kalman

Hocofaisan wrote: »

How will Stealth work in PVE zones: Currently Stealth doesn't work whatsoever in PVE zones. And when teamed with people or not you can see them at all times.

I remember them saying if you were to be an "Enforcer" they where going to have an Enforcer Talbard you needed to equip. So basically ,when equipped, everyone else would be considered an enemy to you for the purpose of stealth. Then anyone with "Heat" or "Notoriety" would become attack-able to you and you to them.

Tandor

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Hocofaisan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And there's no need to opt out of a system you don't have to participate in in the first place. But there's a lot of reasons to not allow thieves the option of getting away with easy crimes by letting them avoid the PvP portion of the system.

Please detail the "lot of reasons," you can't just throw a fragment out there, this isn't FOX NEWS

1. People can exploit NPC guard behavior to ensure they almost never get caught when they have a bounty. This is already happening.
2. People cannot exploit player behavior in the same fashion. So having a bounty is no longer a trivial matter.
3. People like doing things the easy way. So if thieves are given two options, one of which involves always getting away with it, guess which one they'll choose.

That's the basic gist of it.

On the other hand, given the addition of PvP to the Justice System:-

1. People will be able to exploit NPC guard behaviour to ensure they almost never get caught when abusing the enforcement of a bounty. This will happen.

2. People will be able to exploit player behaviour in the same fashion. So enforcing a bounty will become a trivial matter.

3. People like doing things the easy way. So if enforcers are given two options, one of which involves always getting away with it, guess which one they'll choose.

That too is the basic gist of it.

Hocofaisan

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Hocofaisan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And there's no need to opt out of a system you don't have to participate in in the first place. But there's a lot of reasons to not allow thieves the option of getting away with easy crimes by letting them avoid the PvP portion of the system.

Please detail the "lot of reasons," you can't just throw a fragment out there, this isn't FOX NEWS

1. People can exploit NPC guard behavior to ensure they almost never get caught when they have a bounty. This is already happening.
2. People cannot exploit player behavior in the same fashion. So having a bounty is no longer a trivial matter.
3. People like doing things the easy way. So if thieves are given two options, one of which involves always getting away with it, guess which one they'll choose.

That's the basic gist of it.

Great! you bring up some subjective, but valid points. I am not sure that a system that is Player vs NPC needs to be balanced, especially since TESO is a Theme park MMO imo.

As a counter to that:

• How do yo propose to change the Stealth/Invis system in PVE without pulling the carpet out from PVE players. Stealth only works vis a vis NPCs in the PVE zones.
• This also goes to the player teleport systems accessed via friends lists, Guild Lists and Groups. How do you prevent people from using Guild teleport to hunt Thieves (and enforcers) down.
• Speaking of that, how does 1 sided PVP work. What rewards should theives get for killiing Enforcers (the bounty has to be worth it)
• How to you explain to PVE players that they must PVP to enjoy the Theives guild and Dark Brotherhood storyline in a game where they were told they could "Play how they want to play?"
• How do you prevent people from going the easy route and just stacking on top of the Refuge doors?
• How do you stop thieves from just Logging out at the end of their play period to sleep off bounty?
• Some classes have clear advantages as thieves ie Nightblade, how do you balance that?

Nyghthowler

Cagro wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

Hopefully never.

vovus69 wrote: »

I hope they never will do this.

I respect your position but some people get bored playing against the AI. I like the PVE's story but with the excitement of PVP combined. There is no fun for me to beat NPC that is just waiting for me to kill it.

Um, your play style has a whole zone devoted to killing other players. It's called Cyrodill,,,..

Robbmrp

Nyghthowler wrote: »

Cagro wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

Hopefully never.

vovus69 wrote: »

I hope they never will do this.

I respect your position but some people get bored playing against the AI. I like the PVE's story but with the excitement of PVP combined. There is no fun for me to beat NPC that is just waiting for me to kill it.

Um, your play style has a whole zone devoted to killing other players. It's called Cyrodill,,,..

There's over 20 PVE Zones in this game and only 1 PVP Zone. It wouldn't kill the game to open up a few of them to World PVP. They don't need to open all of them. 4-8 Zones would be plenty as it would help expand PVP and give people fun PVP adventures outside of Cyrodil. Even if it was a little as 2-3 they opened, it would make a big difference and wouldn't impact PVE that much. You could still go there without getting attacked by other factions with your PVP Flag off. WoW had dual zones like this that were a lot of fun to go explore. At times there were city raids where your NPC got killed you needed to interact with for a quest. They will come back to life, if/when that happens go kill a few more things and come back. It's only a minor inconvienence.

jircris11

Cagro wrote: »

Are there been any news when the developers will implement the PVP part of the Justice System? I am excited because apparently this is as close as we ever going to get to open world PVP.

open world pvp, no thank you i can already see the v14s killing lvl 4s and laughing.