2 simple things to consider for ZOS and Bethesda

Naor_Sarethi

A massive amount of people didn't know TES before Skyrim.
And in a way Skyrim got people to try out older TES titles as well and bring them into the Elder Scrolls universe.
And that includes Elder Scrolls Online.
However. All those games were made by different developers, massively differing from this one.
Now that TES VI is on its way, people will look to the newest Elder Scrolls release and in one way or another base their willingness to purchase the new title on this release.
Considering the massive drop in quality (check forum) this isn't good news for both TES VI and Bethesda alike.
Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.
And it would drastically increase the level at which we enjoy questing (which atm is around 0) in 90% of the case.
So if such an announcement were made it would be a win-win-win situation for everyone.
Just my 2c on the state of affairs atm.

Moiskormoimi

Well, for one, the core fans already know this is a ZoS title with Bethesda licensing. Bethesda had no interest in bringing this to an mmo settings, ZoS, which owns them, did. I guarantee you that when TES VI, ESO will have no effect on its sales. TES titles are in a category all their own. The details, the complexity, the expertise that goes into making those games is phenomenal. ESO...not so much. The only thing ESO did right, imo, was the lore, and I will give credit where it's due; the questing lore was the most enjoyable of any mmo I've played thus far.

Also, you're seem mighty late to the 'dying horse' party. The quality of ESO at release was laughable at best. They, for whatever reason, were in a race to gain foothold over Wildstar (for what reason, Idk, look at where that is now), and released an unfinished game when they should have pushed back both pc and console for this year, at the earliest.

WhimsyDragon

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.

What do you mean by this? Bethesda is developing TES VI and shares the same parent company as ZOS (Zenimax Media).
What is your suggestion? That the studios collaborate more? (I have no idea what their current level of cross-involvement may be, if much at all)

nimander99

Zenimax is the parent company of Bethesda, ESO is basically made by the same company but being an mmo and Bethesda's talent set lying in single player games Zenimax opted for a new departement (Zenimax Online) with people who know how to make an MMORPG.

To say that Bethesda doesn't have an active interest in the development of ESO is slightly naive but i dont say the to be insulting, there has been a ton of mis-information about ZOS and Bethesda's relationship.

Naor_Sarethi

Adoryn wrote: »

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.

What do you mean by this? Bethesda is developing TES VI and shares the same parent company as ZOS (Zenimax Media).
What is your suggestion? That the studios collaborate more? (I have no idea what their current level of cross-involvement may be, if much at all)

What i mean is that they get more input from Beth basically in terms of quest design. ZOS might be able to get the game somewhat balanced and keep people happy in terms of stats and rewards but they have not the slightest clue on how to please a crowd of people that played since Morrowind and would enjoy quests made in a similar tone as the other TES games.
So that is where they need help from the people that know how to do it.
Beth is busy getting Fallout and the next ES title out so i doubt they will put a lot of manpower into ZOS's pet project, but for the sake of quality more input in my opinion is needed.

people with MMO experience don't make good content designers in a universe that differs quiet a lot from most other MMO's.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

A massive amount of people didn't know TES before Skyrim.
And in a way Skyrim got people to try out older TES titles as well and bring them into the Elder Scrolls universe.
And that includes Elder Scrolls Online.
However. All those games were made by different developers, massively differing from this one.
Now that TES VI is on its way, people will look to the newest Elder Scrolls release and in one way or another base their willingness to purchase the new title on this release.
Considering the massive drop in quality (check forum) this isn't good news for both TES VI and Bethesda alike.
Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.
And it would drastically increase the level at which we enjoy questing (which atm is around 0) in 90% of the case.
So if such an announcement were made it would be a win-win-win situation for everyone.
Just my 2c on the state of affairs atm.

You say with some confidence that "we", and I'm assuming you're attempting to speak for the rest of us, don't enjoy the quests in this game. You are dead wrong. I really enjoy the questing experience. It is better than any mmo I had played, with the acception of possibly swtor,, which, say what you want about that game, but the questing was very well done.

Please do not try to speak for the community as a whole. A lot of us really like the way the questing was done. Also, I started playing TES games with Morrowind and have loved the TES universe since then. While mechanics of some things have changed, this game stays true to the "feel" of the universe.

Naor_Sarethi

"we" implies the people who do feel the same way obviously and not the entire community (duh).
And i do know quiet a lot of people who are not happy with the style the quests are being done.
Yes a lot of effort has been given to them, and yes technically they are better than many other games, but they lack some core elements that make them enjoyable for a certain group of people.
I won't go into detail on that, as there are other threads dealing with that exact issue.

Moiskormoimi

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

people with MMO experience don't make good content designers in a universe that differs quiet a lot from most other MMO's.

*** did you say? If ZoS had had a more veteran team of mmo designers, this game would have been by far a hit. Instead, Zenimax put out an amateur version of what could have been because they have no experience what so ever. It is their first mmo project.

Kragorn

nimander99 wrote: »

Zenimax is the parent company of Bethesda, ESO is basically made by the same company but being an mmo and Bethesda's talent set lying in single player games Zenimax opted for a new departement (Zenimax Online) with people who know how to make an MMORPG.

Seems those people didn't work on ESO.

Naor_Sarethi

They have "veterans". Veterans of either very old MMO's or failed MMO's.
What makes a good MMO is the other question...i mean balancing and rewarding people enough for their effort, which is what they are working on now...a lot.
But that's basically numbers and stabilizing the system.
If it lacks a soul though, everyone who doesn't play for the max crit record, won't have a lot of fun on the long run.
(and it's a very long run from v1-v14 by now)

Naor_Sarethi

nimander99 wrote: »

Zenimax is the parent company of Bethesda, ESO is basically made by the same company but being an mmo and Bethesda's talent set lying in single player games Zenimax opted for a new departement (Zenimax Online) with people who know how to make an MMORPG.

To say that Bethesda doesn't have an active interest in the development of ESO is slightly naive but i dont say the to be insulting, there has been a ton of mis-information about ZOS and Bethesda's relationship.

Questing is very similar to Single Player which is exactly what i mean. Leave the quests to the people who know how to make the, and leave the rest to the people who are working on it now.

Sevalaricgirl

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

A massive amount of people didn't know TES before Skyrim.
And in a way Skyrim got people to try out older TES titles as well and bring them into the Elder Scrolls universe.
And that includes Elder Scrolls Online.
However. All those games were made by different developers, massively differing from this one.
Now that TES VI is on its way, people will look to the newest Elder Scrolls release and in one way or another base their willingness to purchase the new title on this release.
Considering the massive drop in quality (check forum) this isn't good news for both TES VI and Bethesda alike.
Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.
And it would drastically increase the level at which we enjoy questing (which atm is around 0) in 90% of the case.
So if such an announcement were made it would be a win-win-win situation for everyone.
Just my 2c on the state of affairs atm.

You say with some confidence that "we", and I'm assuming you're attempting to speak for the rest of us, don't enjoy the quests in this game. You are dead wrong. I really enjoy the questing experience. It is better than any mmo I had played, with the acception of possibly swtor,, which, say what you want about that game, but the questing was very well done.

Please do not try to speak for the community as a whole. A lot of us really like the way the questing was done. Also, I started playing TES games with Morrowind and have loved the TES universe since then. While mechanics of some things have changed, this game stays true to the "feel" of the universe.

I love the questing in ESO. I am really enjoying EP, first time I've quested in the faction. The stories, lore, etc in ESO is excellent.

I also agree about SWTOR (my favorite MMO).

The stories in ESO do not need work. The game needs the thieves guild and the Dark Brotherhood and ZOS needs to give sorcs back some of their viability in PvE. I think this will all come in time.

Moiskormoimi

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

They have "veterans". Veterans of either very old MMO's or failed MMO's.
What makes a good MMO is the other question...i mean balancing and rewarding people enough for their effort, which is what they are working on now...a lot.
But that's basically numbers and stabilizing the system.
If it lacks a soul though, everyone who doesn't play for the max crit record, won't have a lot of fun on the long run.
(and it's a very long run from v1-v14 by now)

Having people who have worked on other titles does not make them experienced. This is ZoS first mmo title, period. As such, there are a lot of growing and learning pains that come along with it as each fresh title has its own 'breath of life' that needs to be fine tuned.

Again, ESO will not reflect on the TES series. TES VI is highly anticipated and fully in the hands of Bethesda. That alone is a guaranteed cash cow for them.

asteldian

Wait, drop in quality? We are talking about the same buggy mess the TES series is right? By TES standards I would say ESO met expectations when it comes to bugs. Also, like the TES series, ESO relies on modders to improve things.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

A massive amount of people didn't know TES before Skyrim.
And in a way Skyrim got people to try out older TES titles as well and bring them into the Elder Scrolls universe.
And that includes Elder Scrolls Online.
However. All those games were made by different developers, massively differing from this one.
Now that TES VI is on its way, people will look to the newest Elder Scrolls release and in one way or another base their willingness to purchase the new title on this release.
Considering the massive drop in quality (check forum) this isn't good news for both TES VI and Bethesda alike.
Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.
And it would drastically increase the level at which we enjoy questing (which atm is around 0) in 90% of the case.
So if such an announcement were made it would be a win-win-win situation for everyone.
Just my 2c on the state of affairs atm.

You say with some confidence that "we", and I'm assuming you're attempting to speak for the rest of us, don't enjoy the quests in this game. You are dead wrong. I really enjoy the questing experience. It is better than any mmo I had played, with the acception of possibly swtor,, which, say what you want about that game, but the questing was very well done.

Please do not try to speak for the community as a whole. A lot of us really like the way the questing was done. Also, I started playing TES games with Morrowind and have loved the TES universe since then. While mechanics of some things have changed, this game stays true to the "feel" of the universe.

I love the questing in ESO. I am really enjoying EP, first time I've quested in the faction. The stories, lore, etc in ESO is excellent.

I also agree about SWTOR (my favorite MMO).

The stories in ESO do not need work. The game needs the thieves guild and the Dark Brotherhood and ZOS needs to give sorcs back some of their viability in PvE. I think this will all come in time.

This guy clearly gets it. (And he agrees with me, so obviously, he gets it)

Shadesofkin

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

A massive amount of people didn't know TES before Skyrim.
And in a way Skyrim got people to try out older TES titles as well and bring them into the Elder Scrolls universe.
And that includes Elder Scrolls Online.
However. All those games were made by different developers, massively differing from this one.
Now that TES VI is on its way, people will look to the newest Elder Scrolls release and in one way or another base their willingness to purchase the new title on this release.
Considering the massive drop in quality (check forum) this isn't good news for both TES VI and Bethesda alike.
Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.
And it would drastically increase the level at which we enjoy questing (which atm is around 0) in 90% of the case.
So if such an announcement were made it would be a win-win-win situation for everyone.
Just my 2c on the state of affairs atm.

I know this is just your opinion, but I can't help thinking that you don't actually know what you're talking about. Skyrim was not the way that "massive amounts of people" got into the Elder Scrolls Series. Actual gamers have always known about TES, there have been popular rap songs written containing lyrics about Oblivion,while Morrowind is still considered an example of game design. Casuals learned about the TES series through Oblivion, only the young and ultra-casuals learned about it through Skyrim.

That being said, I want to say something positive on this post, so...I'm glad that you care enough about the game to give input and although I think you're dead wrong in just about every way you could be, I think it's great that you went ahead and spoke up. Hope to see you on the forums more.

Naor_Sarethi

I am talking about the younger crowd who haven't really been gaming since the past 10 years, since most of them were pretty much way too young at that point. And that is their target audience apparently.
I got the Oblvion CE on the day of it's release back in high school (missed a day of school for that lel), and i absolutely know there wasn't such an amount of advertisement made for Oblivion as there was for Skyrim.
Oblivion was popular but it wasn't as well known as Skyrim is now.
You see that game referenced on TV shows and about anywhere you can imagine.
And that is a huge difference.

Seraphyel

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Well, for one, the core fans already know this is a ZoS title with Bethesda licensing. Bethesda had no interest in bringing this to an mmo settings, ZoS, which owns them, did. I guarantee you that when TES VI, ESO will have no effect on its sales. TES titles are in a category all their own. The details, the complexity, the expertise that goes into making those games is phenomenal. ESO...not so much. The only thing ESO did right, imo, was the lore, and I will give credit where it's due; the questing lore was the most enjoyable of any mmo I've played thus far.

Also, you're seem mighty late to the 'dying horse' party. The quality of ESO at release was laughable at best. They, for whatever reason, were in a race to gain foothold over Wildstar (for what reason, Idk, look at where that is now), and released an unfinished game when they should have pushed back both pc and console for this year, at the earliest.

You know why? When TES VI hits stores nobody cares anymore about ESO. Not even the biggest ESO fanboys, lol.

So you are totally right with that statement.

TESO is just another way of milking the ES IP, unfortunately it wasn't successful.

kherzaheb17_ESO

One thing for sure , i won't buy any game that ZOS published.Not after the being exclusive a beta tester who paid for it monthly fee.

Maybe 1 year later i can think that i can buy next titles of ZOS.

WhimsyDragon

I think the vast majority of quests/content in ESO are quite good... stuff that makes me have an emotional reaction!!

Kragorn

asteldian wrote: »

Wait, drop in quality? We are talking about the same buggy mess the TES series is right? By TES standards I would say ESO met expectations when it comes to bugs. Also, like the TES series, ESO relies on modders to improve things.

One can't but help agree here, all initial TES releases were bug-fests and many bugs never got fixed before Bethesda closed down development and moved on.

At least TES games COULD be fixed by modders, ESO on the other hand ...

Naor_Sarethi

In defense of 1-50 content. Yes the Mainstory captivated me and the EP content did too (although i had a few issues with it).
BUT since i have hit v1, i am questing through DC and AD content which is simply unbearable to watch at times.
And i don't mean for people who chose to play these factions but vets who *have to* almost quest there to actually level up.

Naor_Sarethi

Kragorn wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

Wait, drop in quality? We are talking about the same buggy mess the TES series is right? By TES standards I would say ESO met expectations when it comes to bugs. Also, like the TES series, ESO relies on modders to improve things.

One can't but help agree here, all initial TES releases were bug-fests and many bugs never got fixed before Bethesda closed down development and moved on.

At least TES games COULD be fixed by modders, ESO on the other hand ...

Yea. Mods helped dramatically. If this game were to implement use made content it would be a whole different story (though not sure how that would be done). If you wanted something different, there was a mod for it.
From fun stuff to downright degraded ****. But it was there and all good fun.
Here you have to swallow what's given to you without really having a choice in the matter.

Kragorn

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

The only thing ESO did right, imo, was the lore, and I will give credit where it's due; the questing lore was the most enjoyable of any mmo I've played thus far.

That's more than likely because Bethesda provided 'consultancy' on the lore, whereas stuff ZOS was left on their own to do wasn't so successful .. sadly the whole 'faction' thing I think was ZOS invention as it had no basis in anything Bethesda had written over the years, at least nothing that looked much like the geopolitics as it exists in ESO.

Naor_Sarethi

I get the feel the factions have partially been an initial idea, but then were dropped again later since they couldn't go through with it. The quests are mainly about helping your faction but not really about fighting the others.
And for the endgame it all comes down to Cyrodiil PvP but that's it.
Plus the factions make for a pretty odd situation since in all TES games all races are basically mixed in one area and the war is a conflict of interest while here it seems they can't decide on whether they want to have us fight each other or fight a Daedric Prince, all of which doesn't really work out the way it could.... if to be back on topic it was done by a competent and cooperating team.
Basically the entire " there is no true evil and no true good " thing that makes TES unique is abandoned here and we're all fighting the same thing, declaring the NPC factions as wholly evil (or not joinable) and all the rest as good.

Moiskormoimi

Kragorn wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

The only thing ESO did right, imo, was the lore, and I will give credit where it's due; the questing lore was the most enjoyable of any mmo I've played thus far.

That's more than likely because Bethesda provided 'consultancy' on the lore, whereas stuff ZOS was left on their own to do wasn't so successful .. sadly the whole 'faction' thing I think was ZOS invention as it had no basis in anything Bethesda had written over the years, at least nothing that looked much like the geopolitics as it exists in ESO.

There's little hiccups in the ESO lore here and there anyway. Overall, I think it's very well done and you're likely right. That's probably one of the very few things Bethesda really was actively involved in on this project.

Elsonso

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

Considering the massive drop in quality (check forum) this isn't good news for both TES VI and Bethesda alike.
Therefore it would be in Bethesdas interest to take a more active role in the development of this game as it will benefit their next release.
And it would drastically increase the level at which we enjoy questing (which atm is around 0) in 90% of the case.
So if such an announcement were made it would be a win-win-win situation for everyone.
Just my 2c on the state of affairs atm.

Just a couple of comments.

Skyrim and Oblivion are no where near "superior quality" products. My respects to Bethesda Game Studio, they do a terrific job, but Skyrim has a ton of unresolved bugs. The Unofficial Oblivion Patch and Unofficial Skyrim Patch mods are still being maintained and fix thousands of things, from object placement to broken quests.

So, to be completely honest, ESO and Skyrim are two peas in a pod as far as I view quality. I would rate them as being roughly equal.

If ZOS can resist the urge to become distracted and wander off into other projects, ESO stands a good chance of becoming a solid quality product over the next couple of years as they release fixes with a lot more regularity than BGS did with Skyrim.