Necromancy. (Dev response, please)

docstrawb

Just came back from a long haitus, and was wondering why necromancy hasn't been added, or if it ever will. From conception, my plan was to play a necromancer, and I was sorely disappointed when I found out it wasn't there. There was at least hope in the form of rumors and dev hints, claiming that spellcrafting would unlock a form of it. But since I returned, I've heard ugly rumors that all add up to this system never happening. I know for a fact there is a huge player base that wants this. It has been present in every TES game I have played (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim). Before all the standard community answers like "It goes against lore, the main antagonist is a necro, etc." necromancy has always been frowned upon, but was always available. You were free to summon a skeleton in any town in any game without notice. No instant barrage of guards. So why would it not be available in ESO? It would be simple. Several threads have laid it out extensively. World skill, a couple dots, possibly a lifetap, a pet skeleton and a flesh atronach/bone colossus ultimate. I could almost guarantee that even a simple stand alone generic summon skeleton ability would be very appreciated (The issue of pet viability at end game is another issue to look at. But that is for a different thread). My nightblade caster is built in every way like a necromancer with only that one aspect, the most important one, missing. It kills my enjoyment on many levels. A game series built on being who you want to be, and I can't, and for no good reason other than it was just simply overlooked/ignored/debated due to the main antagonist. While I doubt this will get a dev response, as none of the other threads I have seen have, it would be greatly appreciated. People want this skill, and I would at least appreciate peace of mind.

Kragorn

docstrawb wrote: »

necromancy has always been frowned upon, but was always available.

Lore-wise a single player playing a Necromancer in TES games didn't matter, it was entirely plausible given what the lore says about that practice, as you acknowledge.

But ESO isn't a TES game, it happens far earlier than they (when Necromancy was even rarer than in Morrowind) and hundreds of Necromancers running around Daggerfall, Ebonheart, etc. as member of one faction or other would be simply laughable lore-wise.

docstrawb

Necromancy doesn't seem very rare, to be honest. Every zone I go to, some makeshift wizard or the withered hand has risen an army of undead minions. Besides, lets be honest. Lore consistency is shredded by the very platform of an mmo. A vampire who is obviously in the latest stages can go through the entire games without notice, let alone a mob of torch carrying villagers. My character, a vampire, just recently helped an arkay priest. He didnt bat an eye at my obvious vampirism. Also, deadric summoning is also frowned upon, yet you see every tom, *** and harry with a clannfear and twilight riding their heels. Lastly, this...is a TES game...... an mmo, a very different form of a TES game. But still....a TES game.

Holycannoli

Kragorn wrote: »

docstrawb wrote: »

necromancy has always been frowned upon, but was always available.

Lore-wise a single player playing a Necromancer in TES games didn't matter, it was entirely plausible given what the lore says about that practice, as you acknowledge.

But ESO isn't a TES game, it happens far earlier than they (when Necromancy was even rarer than in Morrowind) and hundreds of Necromancers running around Daggerfall, Ebonheart, etc. as member of one faction or other would be simply laughable lore-wise.

But we get hundreds of people running around without souls now.

I want spellcrafting before necromancy but I do want both. I don't like how if you want fire magic you need to be DK (and if you're dunmer your racial is sort of wasted without it), if you want lightning magic you need to be sorcerer, you can't use cold magic because it doesn't exist, sorcerer pets are limited and don't even include flame or frost atronachs, etc.

After that they can add my favorite class in most games, but it depends on how they design it.

stimpy986b14_ESO

I've laid out ideas for necromancer skill trees several times (most recent linked below), but none got dev responses and all decended into ESO forum limbo within a few days. I think we may be barking up the wrong tree unfortunately.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156882/necromancer-class-idea-updated-for-1-6#latest

docstrawb

Holycannoli wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

[quote="docstrawb;160028"
I want spellcrafting before necromancy but I do want both.

Well, back when it was moreso on the table, spellcrafting would have essentially introduced it, solving both problems. It was going to be set up like enchanting, with a base, an essence and so forth. So for example [summon] [fire] [atronach] would be there. maybe something like [cast] [frost] [spike]. Then also, you would have had [summon] [fire] [skeleton], or something along those lines, giving you a skeleton pet that dealt fire damage. At least that was the conception as I understood it. It would have been amazing.

Nahz

Kragorn wrote: »

docstrawb wrote: »

necromancy has always been frowned upon, but was always available.

Lore-wise a single player playing a Necromancer in TES games didn't matter, it was entirely plausible given what the lore says about that practice, as you acknowledge.

But ESO isn't a TES game, it happens far earlier than they (when Necromancy was even rarer than in Morrowind) and hundreds of Necromancers running around Daggerfall, Ebonheart, etc. as member of one faction or other would be simply laughable lore-wise.

As opposed to hundreds of vampires running around towns unchecked, and sitting on the Ruby Throne?

I've seen some necromancer ideas on the forums which I would like to see implemented. I prefer pet-based builds, but the sorcerer pets lack AOE utility. While that's fine for solo PVE content, I found my pet build struggling in situations like PVP and dungeons when you need AOEs to take out groups of enemies. Some of the necromancer concepts offered abilities to fill in those gaps.

That being said, ZOS has stated that spellcrafting has been shelved for the time being. I can understand why, as the current game still needs a lot of TLC before they can introduce game-changing systems like custom abilities.

docstrawb

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

I've laid out ideas for necromancer skill trees several times (most recent linked below), but none got dev responses and all decended into ESO forum limbo within a few days. I think we may be barking up the wrong tree unfortunately.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156882/necromancer-class-idea-updated-for-1-6#latest

Yeah, I noticed a lack of response, too. It's is kind of disappointing on ZOS's part. I would rather hear a no and a decent reason than nothing. But in MMOs, the only way to get results is to hound. If we want it, we have to beat that dead horse.

nerevarine1138

docstrawb wrote: »

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

I've laid out ideas for necromancer skill trees several times (most recent linked below), but none got dev responses and all decended into ESO forum limbo within a few days. I think we may be barking up the wrong tree unfortunately.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156882/necromancer-class-idea-updated-for-1-6#latest

Yeah, I noticed a lack of response, too. It's is kind of disappointing on ZOS's part. I would rather hear a no and a decent reason than nothing. But in MMOs, the only way to get results is to hound. If we want it, we have to beat that dead horse.

That's the saddest commentary I've read yet.

If you want a change, then submit feedback. If you want to inform other players that you're requesting a change, then use these forums. But this is not a pipeline to the developers, and you are not guaranteed (much less entitled to) a response from them.

docstrawb

Nahz wrote: »

That being said, ZOS has stated that spellcrafting has been shelved for the time being. I can understand why, as the current game still needs a lot of TLC before they can introduce game-changing systems like custom abilities.

As far as that goes, it doesn't have to be part of spellcrafting. Adding it as a world skill is the most appropriate route. IMO, it should have been there from the start. Also, I strongly agree about the pet problem. The damage combined with the problem of them triggering mechanics in dungeons needs to be fixed.

tallenn

I'd love to see player necromancy, too.

docstrawb

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

That's the saddest commentary I've read yet.

If you want a change, then submit feedback. If you want to inform other players that you're requesting a change, then use these forums. But this is not a pipeline to the developers, and you are not guaranteed (much less entitled to) a response from them.

It is the main pipeline, though. The most commonly used, in fact. One that allows the devs/moderators to see multiple resonses from players in one place. I never said I was guaranteed or entitled. But any company worth its salt WOULD respond if given the opportunity. Feedback and information happens to be exactly what this is, so I am confused by your response......

SurprisedFour91

Yes, wheres the necromancy i want it.

nerevarine1138

docstrawb wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

That's the saddest commentary I've read yet.

If you want a change, then submit feedback. If you want to inform other players that you're requesting a change, then use these forums. But this is not a pipeline to the developers, and you are not guaranteed (much less entitled to) a response from them.

It is the main pipeline, though. The most commonly used, in fact. One that allows the devs/moderators to see multiple resonses from players in one place. I never said I was guaranteed or entitled. But any company worth its salt WOULD respond if given the opportunity. Feedback and information happens to be exactly what this is, so I am confused by your response......

Most companies must not be worth their salt, because most companies don't have developer responses to every player suggestion that gets posted in their forums. And the main pipeline to the developers is the /feedback form in-game. This is simply a way to have other players comment on your idea.

This idea has been brought up before, and it's been one that definitely seems to have a small chunk of the community very vocally supportive of it. But it's certainly not the most popular skill line addition that's been suggested, and based on prior development timetables, I'd say it's a way off (if it's happening at all).

Majic

The Walking Dead

Kragorn wrote: »

But ESO isn't a TES game, it happens far earlier than they (when Necromancy was even rarer than in Morrowind) and hundreds of Necromancers running around Daggerfall, Ebonheart, etc. as member of one faction or other would be simply laughable lore-wise.

You might want to pass that along to the thousands of NPC necromancers already in the game, including Mannimarco.

Necromancers appear in almost every zone in ESO, and are a central element in the main storyline. Wanting to play as one is not unreasonable.

FadedJeans

docstrawb wrote: »

for no good reason other than it was just simply overlooked/ignored/debated due to the main antagonist.

I don't think that's a factor. After all, we have a Vampire bloodline.

I hope to see it one day. A necromantic world skill line would be cool, as well as a ranger/summoning kind of thing.

It might even cut down on the number of winged twilights we see visiting the bank

DUDE! PARK YOUR BEAR OUTSIDE, WILL YA?

KellionBane

Well the game is supposed to limit you to 5 extra skill lines, and we have like what? 4 skill lines to pick from? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

If TSO actually added more than just Necromancy skill line; we would have few actual Necromancers running around, because there would be fewer people running around with the exact same skill line choices.

docstrawb

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Most companies must not be worth their salt, because most companies don't have developer responses to every player suggestion that gets posted in their forums. And the main pipeline to the developers is the /feedback form in-game. This is simply a way to have other players comment on your idea.

This idea has been brought up before, and it's been one that definitely seems to have a small chunk of the community very vocally supportive of it. But it's certainly not the most popular skill line addition that's been suggested, and based on prior development timetables, I'd say it's a way off (if it's happening at all).

Forums have always been a way for players to rally together and show developers how much something is desired in a game. /feedback is there, yes. But it isn't the only way to reach them. I have seen a lot of things accomplished through forums. Sorry if you haven't, or for some reason have a strong belief that this is a no-no. But you will live, I promise.

nerevarine1138

docstrawb wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Most companies must not be worth their salt, because most companies don't have developer responses to every player suggestion that gets posted in their forums. And the main pipeline to the developers is the /feedback form in-game. This is simply a way to have other players comment on your idea.

This idea has been brought up before, and it's been one that definitely seems to have a small chunk of the community very vocally supportive of it. But it's certainly not the most popular skill line addition that's been suggested, and based on prior development timetables, I'd say it's a way off (if it's happening at all).

Forums have always been a way for players to rally together and show developers how much something is desired in a game. /feedback is there, yes. But it isn't the only way to reach them. I have seen a lot of things accomplished through forums. Sorry if you haven't, or for some reason have a strong belief that this is a no-no. But you will live, I promise.

I think you've misunderstood. I have no problem with changes being proposed via the forums. I have a big problem with people repeatedly asking for a developer response to threads. That's not how it works.

YourNameHere

I dunno. Pets are daedra which is different from Necromancy.

As for lorewise, it just wouldn't fit. I know I know ... but even the Altmer imprison or kill any who dabble in forbidden magicka ... necromancy.

And we haven't played how we wanted to since Beta, cause the first 3 lines are based on class. So no Templars summoning pets.

docstrawb

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

[

I think you've misunderstood. I have no problem with changes being proposed via the forums. I have a big problem with people repeatedly asking for a developer response to threads. That's not how it works.

Developers respond to threads. Not always. It isn't, as you so lovingly put it, "guaranteed or entitiled", but it happens. Requesting a response is far from a bad thing. I'm sure devs see it so much it may not make a difference to whether they respond or not, but as I said. You will live. There are worse things than asking for a dev response in a thread, I promise. You would be a much happier person if small, insignifigant things like this weren't such a "big problem" in your life.

Naor_Sarethi

That's the one lore "bending" thing that would actually be good. Kinda goes with the whole theme of the game not being dark/ real enough. For the next content update, consider everything that was said about the topic and Necromancy belongs in the same area. There is a whole wormcult going on, and since you've pretty much given up on "factions" we might as well get some daedric quests or any other route that allows us to gain a necromancy skill tree with related quests and places to go to.

docstrawb

YourNameHere wrote: »

As for lorewise, it just wouldn't fit. I know I know ... but even the Altmer imprison or kill any who dabble in forbidden magicka ... necromancy.

This has always been the case in TES games. Necromancy is a forbidden art punishable by death. Yet, as I said, you can get on any game of your choosing and summon a necromantic pet in the middle of town with zero repercussions. So to hold ESO to a different standard makes no sense. It is the most lax yet as far as lore goes. I also agree that we are a far cry from everyone getting to play as they want. I am just putting my biggest wish out there and hoping for support so it could possibly make it into the game.

KellionBane

docstrawb wrote: »

YourNameHere wrote: »

As for lorewise, it just wouldn't fit. I know I know ... but even the Altmer imprison or kill any who dabble in forbidden magicka ... necromancy.

This has always been the case in TES games. Necromancy is a forbidden art punishable by death. Yet, as I said, you can get on any game of your choosing and summon a necromantic pet in the middle of town with zero repercussions. So to hold ESO to a different standard makes no sense. It is the most lax yet as far as lore goes. I also agree that we are a far cry from everyone getting to play as they want. I am just putting my biggest wish out there and hoping for support so it could possibly make it into the game.

They could just tie it into the Justice system. They see you summoning something or casting a spell... You get slapped with a bounty.

docstrawb

KellionBane wrote: »

They could just tie it into the Justice system. They see you summoning something or casting a spell... You get slapped with a bounty.

Man, that would be a pain. It would also demand bounties against vamp and ww. People would be going broke left and right, lol.

Contraptions

Would really love to see necromancy added. Or perhaps some sort of lich world skill line similar to vamp and WW focusing on magicka. Vamps focus on health draining, WW have stam bonuses, thus liches should have bonuses or skills relating to magicka manipulation. Throw in a lovely "summon skeleton" or "reanimate corpse" spell and an undead-esque appearance ala Draugr or soul shriven and I'm gonna first in line to give my soul back to Molag Bal.

stimpy986b14_ESO

docstrawb wrote: »

KellionBane wrote: »

They could just tie it into the Justice system. They see you summoning something or casting a spell... You get slapped with a bounty.

Man, that would be a pain. It would also demand bounties against vamp and ww. People would be going broke left and right, lol.

Vamps already get bounty slapped when feeding on citizens, detected or not because it counts as an attack.

IMO the justice system handles sneak attack stuns such as vamp bites the wrong way

If the target is killed before the stun wears off, and you are not witnessed, you should not incur a bounty.

This would allow for much more immersive stealth assassin gameplay AND vampire feeding gameplay and also allow for a system that forces vamps to become fugitive simply by being witnessed at stage 4. this would also apply to WW who are witnessed entering WW form.

desciviib14_ESO

I've wanted a Necromancer class from the get go and was a little let down to not find it. While I realize the single player games are different than ESO, I really dont see any problems with it in game. While it might seem strange that a Necromancer would "save the day", it's no more strange than a vampire or ww doing so. Also, as mentioned, there are necromancers all over the place practicing openly in the world without any repercussions until you (the player) comes along. Hell, the guards, knights, etc... often know of it and dont dare to bother them and instead ask you to take care of it. So, it would seem to me that you wouldn't necessarily get bothered by guards either unless you attacked an innocent.

Would love to see Necromancer get its own Class

J.

bloodthirstyvampire

I would like a necromancy class in future too. Hey mods

CardboardedBox

I love that the usual bs argument against being a necromancer is that it's illegalillegal in tamriel and too evil for your good guy vestige.

Yet you kill thousands of people, can steal their souls into small rocks and use them to power your weapons, become a werewolf and vampire despite both being common enemies, you can steal from people and join the thieves guild, and you can slaughter innocent people with dark brotherhood.

Yet reviving a corpse to fight by your side? No way, too evil.

SanderBuraas

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

I would like a necromancy class in future too. Hey mods

@bloodthirstyvampire

Aren't you satisfied with being a thread necromancer?