Are Vet Dungeons Overtuned?

Rust_in_Peace

I didn't have much experience doing 4 player dungeons before 1.6 but I don't remember them being this tough. I did Banished Cells and it was quite a struggle the other day and today I tried to do Elden Hollow and my group wasn't able to do it. There was just too much damage for us to handle and the bosses were scaled down to VR4. Maybe I just got unlocky, I felt like I had the mechanics down pretty decently and was managing my stam well so I'd always have enough for break free but we still couldn't do it.

Looking for opinions from some regular PVEers here. I normally stick to PVP but want to do the dailies for the Undaunted passives.

Mantic0r3

allways enough to break free? from what? try to prevent beeing cced in the first place, its much easier and more effective

otherwise you would need to tell us where exactly you had the most trouble.
Did elden hollow twice todays just fine without any deaths and nothing special in regards to specs or equip so its definitly still doable

TehMagnus

How much HP do you have?

Apokh

Guess he means the cc effect of the shadows.
At first you have to ensure, that your mates have around 10/12k HP at LEAST...otherwise don´t go VET Dungeons Tank about 18k+
Its all about training. The VET Dungeons are fine as they are in terms of difficulty.

TehMagnus

Apokh wrote: »

Guess he means the cc effect of the shadows.
At first you have to ensure, that your mates have around 10/12k HP at LEAST...otherwise don´t go VET Dungeons Tank about 18k+
Its all about training. The VET Dungeons are fine as they are in terms of difficulty.

12k is low, 18k is low.

DPSers should have 18k minimum and tank 25K minimum for VR14 content.

I see so many people running around with 12K HP I'm not amazed people get One shot.

Lord Xanhorn

The difficulty is great. If they nerf vet dungeons, I will be utterly disappointed with this game. They can be done but you must have 4 people who all know how to do their role. You can't get by with tanks that don't block, or DPS that don't use their resources or healers who cant heal effectively and you certainly cant do it with ppl who cant get out of the fire.

Lukefus

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The difficulty is great. If they nerf vet dungeons, I will be utterly disappointed with this game. They can be done but you must have 4 people who all know how to do their role. You can't get by with tanks that don't block, or DPS that don't use their resources or healers who cant heal effectively and you certainly cant do it with ppl who cant get out of the fire.

I agree. The vet dungeons are completely doable (even easy) if everyone knows how to play their part right and have enough health to not get 1-shoted.
An example: I ran Crypt of Hearts the other day with some random people, we spent 2 hours in there, had about 3 people leave and replaced them (one by one) and still couldn't get past the last boss.
Then I ran it with some guildies, we were on TS, organised, and had ran it many times before. Did the speed run.
There's a big difference once you get used to the dungeon, the learning curve is tough, but I like it.

Rust_in_Peace

Break free for the last boss, the shadows fear you on the big dragon demon. I have 17.5k HP so I guess that's a bit on the low side.

Lukefus

Rhaenir wrote: »

Break free for the last boss, the shadows fear you on the big dragon demon. I have 17.5k HP so I guess that's a bit on the low side.

Yeah, I feel like 20-23k is a good place to be. Also, being a vampire in Elden Hollow's Bogdan is, well... Lets say you better have fire resist

hamon

i think the scaling is all wrong, fair enough you might not expect to get through a v14 vet pledge with a pug group , but ive never finished one yet and ive been trying to get them scaled down to any vet lvl and its still horrible.

i know folk like to flex their epeens and say its easy , all you need is like 25k hp and stuff like that but ive no idea how folk get that amount of hp without stacking hp and basically making yourself nothing but a tank for pve. fair enough leave a mode for all the ultra dungeon players but i'd just like a less punishing dungeon pledge to do , for less rewards..

they just make me want to stop even trying them .

hamon

on that subject , is there any other way for getting undaunted rep other than finishing those horrible dungeons? i really enjoyed the dungeons before vet lvl they were fun and seemed like a fairly fun experience for guys to just do as they levelled.

rather than vet ones that just seem like a punishing slog with too many insta gib things going on.

hamon

Lukefus wrote: »

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The difficulty is great. If they nerf vet dungeons, I will be utterly disappointed with this game. They can be done but you must have 4 people who all know how to do their role. You can't get by with tanks that don't block, or DPS that don't use their resources or healers who cant heal effectively and you certainly cant do it with ppl who cant get out of the fire.

I agree. The vet dungeons are completely doable (even easy) if everyone knows how to play their part right and have enough health to not get 1-shoted.
An example: I ran Crypt of Hearts the other day with some random people, we spent 2 hours in there, had about 3 people leave and replaced them (one by one) and still couldn't get past the last boss.
Then I ran it with some guildies, we were on TS, organised, and had ran it many times before. Did the speed run.
There's a big difference once you get used to the dungeon, the learning curve is tough, but I like it.

your reply states the problem for me, its easy if you have an experienced guild all on TS and stuff , probably already in pretty much top gear. but thats not everyone and the steep learning curve is just a frustrating series of wipe fests that make everyone fall out with each other and quit etc...

thats not healthy for the game imo. i'm all for an ultra mode thats really severe for those who enjoy that but basically thats the only option. gold pledges just seem to be buff the last boss for an even nastier fight in an already over tuned dungeon for the average player. why not gold keys be very hard and normal be tuned down for a less frustrating experience. that way everyone gets to enjoy them. and learn the dungeon without being put of by wipe fests and 2 hours of an unfnished dungeon.

Rust_in_Peace

There's no other way to increase Undaunted rep which is really annoying. The only reason I even started doing dungeons is for the flat boost to stats the passives give you and the regen from Ultimate synergy.

I think an easier mode would be nice. I don't care about gold keys or the gear from Dungeons. all my stuff is crafted, I just want the rep.

hamon

Rhaenir wrote: »

There's no other way to increase Undaunted rep which is really annoying. The only reason I even started doing dungeons is for the flat boost to stats the passives give you and the regen from Ultimate synergy.

I think an easier mode would be nice. I don't care about gold keys or the gear from Dungeons. all my stuff is crafted, I just want the rep.

ye me 2 i dont give a monkeys about gold keys i just want to get my rep up... without it being suck a pain.

Dagoth_Rac

hamon wrote: »

ye me 2 i dont give a monkeys about gold keys i just want to get my rep up... without it being suck a pain.

Do the normal pledge, not the Veteran pledge. Kill all the optional bosses and you will get a Silver Key and Undaunted skill line XP. Getting Undaunted leveled up will be slower than doing both normal and Veteran pledges, but you can still get it done.

Also, look in the Achievements tab under your Journal. There is a Dungeon section. Completing achievements in there also levels up your Undaunted skill line. Some of them are like, "Finish Veteran City of Ash in under 24 seconds with no group member ever taking a single tick of damage," and yeah that is off limits for all but 0.001% of players. But there are a lot of easy ones like, "Kill 100 of Enemy Type [fill-in-the-blank] in Veteran Dungeon [fill-in-the-blank]." You can just keep killing those enemies until you get to a tough boss you cannot beat, then disband the group and start over.

Basically, you can get Undaunted to max level without ever finishing a Veteran Dungeon. It will take longer, though.

Merlin13KAGL

TehMagnus wrote: »

Apokh wrote: »

Guess he means the cc effect of the shadows.
At first you have to ensure, that your mates have around 10/12k HP at LEAST...otherwise don´t go VET Dungeons Tank about 18k+
Its all about training. The VET Dungeons are fine as they are in terms of difficulty.

12k is low, 18k is low.

DPSers should have 18k minimum and tank 25K minimum for VR14 content.

I see so many people running around with 12K HP I'm not amazed people get One shot.

Not sure it would be possible for me to get my health as low as 12k...

12k's not just low. At 12k, you may as well walk in naked and fight via fisticuffs.

OP, Vet Group Dungeons have always been more than just the next step up from the 1-50 counterparts.

Now they've just mucked them all around. Mobs are harder than they used to be and apparently they decided Bosses should be far more squishy than they used to be. It's bass-ackwards.

Give more detail on the fight you take issue with and we can offer some suggestions. If it's the end fight, always focus the Mind Controllers first - they will keep you from moving, blocking, DPSing, and can waltz you right into an overlapping patch of fire.

Merlin13KAGL

Rhaenir wrote: »

There's no other way to increase Undaunted rep which is really annoying. The only reason I even started doing dungeons is for the flat boost to stats the passives give you and the regen from Ultimate synergy.

I think an easier mode would be nice. I don't care about gold keys or the gear from Dungeons. all my stuff is crafted, I just want the rep.

@Rhaenir , actually this is no longer true. As of a patch or two ago, Public Dungeon Bosses also counted towards achieves, and named enemies are named enemies, regardless of level.

Also, unless they ninja patched it, things like Damage Dealer still don't reflect the x10 factor, so 1,000,000 points of damage in a dungeon is the 1.5 equivalent of 100,000 damage in a dungeon - you can get that in a handful of runs, if not one.

Lord Xanhorn

The current system is perfect. The normal dungeons can be done at any VR level and have a daily pledge associated with them. This is for the masses. These are a tad more difficult post V1 than they were 1-50 and should offer a decent challenge for new or inexperienced players.

Vet dungeons are hard modes and should require advanced knowledge of your class and group synergies. There is a greater reward associated with them as well.

If you can't do vet dungeons then you need to practice and become a better player. You can practice you healing, DPS, or tanking skills in regular dungeons and then when you and your friends are better tackle the tougher content.

The solution is not to gimp the vet dungeons just cause the masses are too lazy to put the work in to get better. Every other game save ESO and Wildstar does this so there's plenty of options on the market for easy puggalbe top end content.

Apokh

@TehMagnus /@Merlin13KAGL

You guys realized, that the TE is V4? No, you didn´t! E-! Take a seat

Guess it is more useful, to tell the TE what fits his Level ans not what fints a Level he will aquire...once...

TehMagnus

Apokh wrote: »

@TehMagnus /@Merlin13KAGL

You guys realized, that the TE is V4? No, you didn´t! E-! Take a seat

I did, so? What I said still applies. Moreover the dungeon was scaled down to VR4, which means the player is prolly not VR4.

Apokh

I was in V6 Vets with a whole group having less than 18k buffed. The healer in fact had 12k buffed and it was not a big thing.

I agree the numbersfor V14 but healers do not have to have more than 18k Life .

Anvos

There definantly are some overtuned things such as how somebody decided Grobul from Vet Darkshade Caverns needed buffed, when he was already one of the harder bosses in Vet Darkshade.

Locke_ESO

Most of these dungeons are only feeling so tough because people are not really prepared for them by the game as pre-50 content is just really not that hard. It's easy from an experienced VR14s perspective to dismiss the concerns but I do understand how suddenly going into a situation where you have to do things that are simply no where near as important in pre-vet content must be disconcerting. The best thing to do is work on improving your game play and maybe watch a few play throughs or seek out experienced players to guide you through them. I've done it many times for fellow adventurers.

As for making Undaunted easier I say "Hell no!" It goes against the entire idea of being Undaunted in that they are fearless warriors that tackle the hardest enemies in Tamriel. No "milk drinkers" need apply. Almost all of the encounters can be conquered very easily with the right tactics and skills.

Cody

vet dungeons are totally doable. Iv done them all save vet city of ash(which i have yet to find a group for:() heck i did crypt of hearts vet back when the stamina bow/DW build was underpowered, so they are definitely doable.

I don't know about easy(and tbh some people beat some of the bosses using bugs and cheats, so one cant trust the "its easy" remark to begin with:/) but they are nowhere near impossible. they just cant be effortlessly run thru like the 1-49 dungeons.

heck the level 1-49 dungeons USED to be difficult, now all but save 2 or 3 of them are a walk in the park; they do very little to prepare players for veteran dungeons, which, in my opinion, is why so many people are so unprepared for veteran dungeons.

Just practice with your role/class; you will get there.

aco5712

All the vet pledges are a joke. They need to have like pug level and then like super jacked dungeon on steroids coz they are pretty easy and boring atm.

Molsondry

Ive been played this game for about 4 weeks now and I got right into vet pledge at vr 2 weeks ago.

I have to say I have a Heroic raiding wow background and I am arena master in CURRENT season also.

Altough that said. I found vet dungeon pretty damn easy and think there should be a Heroic version with better rewards for them to be more challenging for min/maxer and end games players..... And maybe put a Casual difficulties with less rewards .. for casual! ( yes im referring to wow, but you know what ? the system works perfectly and there alot less complaint about difficulties)

The thing I see tho is this game has a LOT of casual/rp players , most player dont min/max and play the build they want to instead of the most effective build resulting in me @ vr 5 doing basicly double the dps of some Vr14 casual gamer. Yes I take food buff , yes I use spell power potion instead of magika for sp buff , yes ... Im a min maxer.

I have nothing agaisnt casual but please dont come and ask for nerf because you wanna play the way you want instead of playing the way you should (ie 2h sorc stam build??? wtf) A sorcerer is a caster... , fine if you wanna play it has a 2hander stam build , but dont complain after you cant do vet dungeon because your dps is ... too low... ( you probly dont have recount or FTC to see your dps because you dont even care, why do you even bother doing vet dungeon????!!)

Lord Xanhorn

This game's Vet dungeons are perfect. They are easy for great players, average for good players, tough for mediocre players, and impossible for bad players. If they are anything but easy for you, then you need to work on getting better as a player, not sit around wishing they were nerfed.

Merlin13KAGL

I'm actually still a little stunned on how much they've nerfed many of the boss fights.

xMovingTarget

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm actually still a little stunned on how much they've nerfed many of the boss fights.

Jop. +1

General_Kefka

Nope they are too easy

Daveheart

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm actually still a little stunned on how much they've nerfed many of the boss fights.

Whether I'm healing or on DPS, there are several boss fights that end so quickly I don't even realize we were ever in an execute phase.