Stacking food and beverage effects

befuddler

It makes no sense not to be able to have food and beverage effects stacked. Everybody likes to have a drink with their meal and in real life the effects of both concur simultaneously. Maybe, after some thought, the devs would see it this way and make it happen.

Eldarth

And since they are monitoring the existing provisioning, simply don't make or use any drinks and maybe they'll change it to stack -- as everyone seems to want.

Kragorn

Just another of ZOS announced changes they later reneged on.

Eldarth

Kragorn wrote: »

Just another of ZOS announced changes they later reneged on.

How exactly do you "reneg" on being informed about a "possible" game mechanic that is being tested??

Robbmrp

What good would it be to have them stack? ZOS would just come in with the very next patch and nerf it all to h*ll when 2 people( 2 after ZOS conversion = 200,000) would complain that they are OP with both.

DeLindsay

They need to stack, period.

I_killed_Vivec

Eldarth wrote: »

And since they are monitoring the existing provisioning, simply don't make or use any drinks and maybe they'll change it to stack -- as everyone seems to want.

They did say drink and food would stack, then they changed their minds.

If people don't use drinks then they might see that without stacking drinks are useless...

Nestor

If they are monitoring Drink usage, I contribute nothing to that count, never have.

The only reason I make drinks today is Provisioning Writs. If I was not doing those, I would never make a Beverage in this game.

Ourorboros

I agree .

Mumnoch

lower tier food is superior to higher tier drinks in every way. Why would anyone gimp their DPS/health by using drinks over food?

Kragorn

Eldarth wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

Just another of ZOS announced changes they later reneged on.

How exactly do you "reneg" on being informed about a "possible" game mechanic that is being tested??

Simple:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/119265/provisioning-revamp/p1

In there they laid out their plans and asked for feedback:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning and collecting recipes, so we wanted to get your feedback before proceeding. We feel this would be a major improvement to the game and want to hear your thoughts on the matter!

To my knowledge no one ever suggested food and drink shouldn't stack and at no time during that 'discussion' period did ZOS say they'd changed their minds., which if they had done so would likely have altered the 'feedback'.

So if ZOS were genuine in what they posted there they'd have gone ahead with their 'plan'.

That's how you renege on something: say one thing, do the opposite.

Kragorn

Mumnoch wrote: »

lower tier food is superior to higher tier drinks in every way. Why would anyone gimp their DPS/health by using drinks over food?

Faster regen is often a lot better than a larger pool.

You seem to be someone who thinks the bigger the numberz the better, ignoring any other factor.

UrQuan

Kragorn wrote: »

Mumnoch wrote: »

lower tier food is superior to higher tier drinks in every way. Why would anyone gimp their DPS/health by using drinks over food?

Faster regen is often a lot better than a larger pool.

You seem to be someone who thinks the bigger the numberz the better, ignoring any other factor.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "often" but I'd agree that the regen can be a better choice, depending on the circumstances and your build. I think most of the time food is the clearly better choice, due to concerns like making sure your health pool is big enough that you can't be one-shotted (or really just killed before you get a chance to do any proper healing - surviving an initial strike is really what I'm talking about), or making your pool better because damage from abilities scales based on your pool.

Sometimes, though, if you expect to be in a long battle, and you consider that your base stats are high enough that you're not concerned about the 2 things I mention above, the regen is a better choice.

bellanca6561n

I'm not quite sure why folks get upset when anyone asserts that this was, to put it as fairly and as gently as possible, an assurance deferred.

Clearly this was considered. As I recall there was an issue in the designers' minds of whether the use of the two together should result in lower values on each. Games are math after all and very tricky math if your game has magic in it, multiple classes, and - most tricky of all - PvP

It would be nice to get a developer debrief on why it was deferred....but I'm not sure it would help.

As it is I cannot recall an online game that has the sheer magnitude of stat increase that food does in this one. What impresses me, though, are the choices offered: go HUGE in one stat, BIG in two, or DAMNED GOOD in all three. It's a well thought out system.

And most of us really do wash down that power food with drink...constantly with potions.

Nestor

bellanca6561n wrote: »

And most of us really do wash down that power food with drink...constantly with potions.

That's just it, we can use Potions immediately after using Foods. But, we can't use Drinks, unless we cancel the effects of the foods. The regen amounts offered by drinks is rather low in the scheme of things. Such that the one or two drinks I did try to use did not make me more deadly or survivable. Heck, I have to really crank up the regen with Jewelery or Crafted/Dropped sets to gain an appreciable benefit in combat.

So, there is no reason to not allow Food and Drink stacking. The math does not need to be tweaked, just allow us to combine the two equations.

I am not sure I would even use Drinks in the game if it did stack, but I would for sure be more amenable to using Drinks for something else besides completing a Provisioning Writ if they did stack with Food.

Woolenthreads

I'll just reiterate what I said in a pre-1.6 post. I've run the numbers and the Regen from Drinks doesn't constitute enough of a change to match the boost from food and I therefore see no need to use drink at all.

Palidon

Woolenthreads wrote: »

I'll just reiterate what I said in a pre-1.6 post. I've run the numbers and the Regen from Drinks doesn't constitute enough of a change to match the boost from food and I therefore see no need to use drink at all.

I agree totally. The only time I will use a drink is if ZOS ever lets both Food and Drink stack which should of been done in the first place.

Baconlad

Wow guys...any of you guys bashing drinks and voting for stackability ever even tried drinks since they buffed them? I'm telling you I was on board with stacking and thought the drinks still weren't good enough untill someone set me straight. I'm pulling 1700 magica recovery, 1100 stamina recovery, and 1100 health recovery. For short fights? Yeah sure food is better, cause you have higher spell damage and can blast things down quicker, but for the fights that MATTER, like BOSS fights in undaunted or trials, regens are ten times better coupled with spell power enchants/ set bonuses. Also I can say that for a tank, utilizing BOTH pools, I can sustain my stamina for blocking bashing, break free, and my magicka for healing, damaging, utilities. Within like 8 seconds, I'm back at full magick/ stamina. Compared to over twenty for max magicka/ stamina stacked, low regen builds. Only takes five seconds for me to drain my magick, max magicka I drain it in like ten seconds, do the math, regen are better

Baconlad

And STACKING this would be too much, they'd have to balance things again to keep from being too easy, I'm tired of rebalancing

Jennifur_Vultee

Drinks are useless...one of my characters is a provisioner and nobody in my guild ever touches the drinks I made, not even me. I'm stopped collecting drink materials and may just vendor the drinks I have made to clear bank space. If they don't stack with foods people just won't use drinks.

YourNameHere

I have asked about this since Beta. It seems normal, right?

I mean, people have regen in passives, so why would it hurt to have stacked regen magicka/added magicka on top for 30 minutes?

Sandmanninja

Baconlad wrote: »

Wow guys...any of you guys bashing drinks and voting for stackability ever even tried drinks since they buffed them? I'm telling you I was on board with stacking and thought the drinks still weren't good enough untill someone set me straight. I'm pulling 1700 magica recovery, 1100 stamina recovery, and 1100 health recovery. For short fights? Yeah sure food is better, cause you have higher spell damage and can blast things down quicker, but for the fights that MATTER, like BOSS fights in undaunted or trials, regens are ten times better coupled with spell power enchants/ set bonuses. Also I can say that for a tank, utilizing BOTH pools, I can sustain my stamina for blocking bashing, break free, and my magicka for healing, damaging, utilities. Within like 8 seconds, I'm back at full magick/ stamina. Compared to over twenty for max magicka/ stamina stacked, low regen builds. Only takes five seconds for me to drain my magick, max magicka I drain it in like ten seconds, do the math, regen are better

I only use blue drink. I have a magicka build and there is NO REASON to pay more gold for a food/drink that buffs a stat I do not use.
I get more Magicka and Health from a blue than from a Purple.
Since there is no cap on magicka regen now, I try to pump my regen as high as I can make it.
I use jewelry enchants to reduce the magicka cost of spells and drinks to pump up my regen.
I can spam spells and my magicka never drops below half. And if it ever should, just pump out some heavy attacks (the passive to give you 30% more magicka when using heavy attacks).
I generally use health enchants on my chest and leg gear, to boost my health to survive bursty damage.

yake82

Funny... Kagouti Kick Mazte and Malacaths Hammer are the only ones i seem to be using. Im tank btw.

I have these stacks from old provisioning. I also have stock of Hircines meatloaf and Emperor stew, but i find regen to be much better. I tried to sell purple foods after provisioning revamp but there was little demand.

timidobserver

I know a number of people that make good use of drinks. Particularly in PvP. I doubt they will be making them stack.

I_killed_Vivec

Baconlad wrote: »

And STACKING this would be too much, they'd have to balance things again to keep from being too easy, I'm tired of rebalancing

Mr Bacon, they rebalanced all the drinks to avoid stacking.

Prior to 1.6 drinks were rubbish, so it made sense for them to stack with food, which is what ZoS said they were going to do.

Everybody was happy

Then they abandoned the idea of stacking food and drink and just boosted the drink stats.

I suppose they did it so that people can choose whether to get the boost or the regen, and that this will diversify play, whereas if food and drink stacked we'd all be eating and drinking our faces off.

I can see their point, but I'd prefer to eat and drink.

SkorosMindkiller

I know how to balance stacking. When stats on food & drink are stacked, reduce the effect of each on that stat by up to 50% (perhaps based on quality, e.g., green by 50%, blue by 45%, purple by 40%) This would mean, for example, VR5 purple of both stacked would be 1784 HP & 1640 MAG+STA and 178 HP regen & 164 MAG+STA regen. This would also make green food & drink useful at higher levels. A tank might use green HP food and either green STA drink or blue MAG/STA drink. A STA based dps might use blue HP+STA food & drink, or blue HP+MAG food & green STA drink, so they can MAG dump that one skill that uses MAG, but still have good STA regen. It would add a whole new meta-game of finding the best combos for different roles for different encounters.

Valymer

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Drinks are useless...one of my characters is a provisioner and nobody in my guild ever touches the drinks I made, not even me. I'm stopped collecting drink materials and may just vendor the drinks I have made to clear bank space. If they don't stack with foods people just won't use drinks.

In PvE, perhaps, but not in PvP. Drinks are very useful.

xaraan

Drinks are very good, especially for use in pvp instead of food. They definitely have a place and I'd rather see it stay as is that have them get nerfed just so we could stack both. God forbid we have to make a choice. Now, if you think food is so awesome, then please, stick with it. There are times I still use food.

Yakidafi

Food for PvE because you get hungry slaying delicious monsters.
Drink for PvP because you get thirsty running the big map.