Immortal Guards

Anvos

The way I see it, guards shouldn't be a deterrence by the way they currently are where their blatently OPed and somehow stronger than the greatest heroes of their age and professional soldiers, but instead something like if you turn to fight them they start quickly summoning reinforcements in the form of more and more guards, they would be beefy enough not to die before summoning starts, and also killing would drop no lot or xp.

Theosis

likely for the same reason we don't have chameleon spell for our armor.. makes things to easy

Gidorick

tiamak wrote: »

In LotRO, there were training dummies in every town. They had around 5000k morale (hitpoints). If you attacked them, you were in combat for around 20 seconds. Then, you left combat and the dummy regenerated fully. So, obviously, they were not meant to be killed. One day, four raids of 24 chars each gathered in Galtrev. And that poor dummy was the first of his kind to die.

If you make guards mortal, people will kill them no matter how hard it's going to be. And they would depopulate cities all over Tamriel. With immortal guards, you must not get caught commiting a crime. End of the discussion. With mortal guards, it might not be too bad to kill some NPC right in front of the guard.

Not if. ...

Gidorick wrote: »

I think this could be handled a bit more... eloquently.

Guards should NOT be immortal but by killing a guard, the following happens:

• Each guard you kill will cause 2 to spawn and track you down
• Each guard you kill increases the attack damage of the next guard
• Each guard you kill increases the defense of the next guard
• Each guard you kill exponentially increases your bounty
• Each guard you kill increases how long the next guard will pursue you

Eventually, you'll be overwhelmed and you WILL die... but it's not impossible to kill guards all the time.

Kill 1 guard... you have 2 looking for you. Kill them? 4 come at you. Kill those 4? You now have 8. Kill them? 16... etc. etc. etc.

Sure there would be guilds that see how far they can get but it would be a losing battle with players "walking away" with 2 million gold bounties and unable to play as an upstanding citizen.

A single guard should be mortal, THE guard should be an unstoppable force.

tiamak

Gidorick wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Guards should NOT be immortal but by killing a guard, the following happens:

• Each guard you kill will cause 2 to spawn and track you down
• Each guard you kill increases the attack damage of the next guard
• Each guard you kill increases the defense of the next guard
• Each guard you kill exponentially increases your bounty
• Each guard you kill increases how long the next guard will pursue you

Sure there would be guilds that see how far they can get but it would be a losing battle with players "walking away" with 2 million gold bounties and unable to play as an upstanding citizen.

A single guard should be mortal, THE guard should be an unstoppable force.

Ok, this does sound like a viable option with respect to the concern that commiting a crime should remain a dangerous thing to do. I still have two worries:

1. As long as you keep fighting The Guard, you're bound to get killed sooner or later. So, at some point you will want to run like hell. What exactly is the difference to immortal guards then?
2. Imagine a group of some 30 toons, gathering in a city and up for a brawl with the local guards. Of course, they are all well equipped and coordinated as a team. Let's say the could take twice the number of guards before their lines thin out. That would amount to a scuffle with 31 to 90 participants where at least 30 of them make heavy use of AOE-skills. I doubt that this would be healthy for the overall experience in said city.

Of course, the second point is rather pragmatic. Still, it is a point to consider. And given that the first point holds anyway, why not simply bite the anti-immersive bullet of immortal guards and avoid the issues connected with the second point?

myrrrorb14_ESO

I see the necessity of having the guards be immortal, but they should be stoppable. Have them go down on a knee like a NPC on a quest when they get down to zero health. Don't make it easy to do it though. Maybe as tough as a world boss.

Once Enforcers are implented it should be more fun.

Gix

Yeah, I'm thinking that once players can act as enforcers, guards might be "killable" to some extent.

kijima wrote: »

With 6,000,000 health a guard could easily solo Molag Bal

Makes me wonder why I am the vestige...

You're not the vestige because of your combat prowess; the prophet calls you the vestige because you're missing a part of your soul, somehow... hence the name.

GreySix

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

And I for one love seeing all the noobs in rawl'kha being destroyed because they felt the need to kill an npc in the middle of the town square

Yep, I'd like to pull up a chair and get some popcorn for those events.

Then to hear their wailing in chat is just value-added.

Athas24

I don't mind that they are immortal, I just hate their unlimited CC's and their ability to pull me out of stealth Instantly and constantly when I use cloak. GRRRRR

Gix

Athas24 wrote: »

I don't mind that they are immortal, I just hate their unlimited CC's and their ability to pull me out of stealth Instantly and constantly when I use cloak. GRRRRR

Have you tried running away? Cloak slows you down so I hardly ever use it unless I'm going around a corner. Seriously the only time I got caught was when I got DCed.

1ne2woBe

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

I see the necessity of having the guards be immortal, but they should be stoppable. Have them go down on a knee like a NPC on a quest when they get down to zero health. Don't make it easy to do it though. Maybe as tough as a world boss.

Once Enforcers are implented it should be more fun.

Thing is... They may not be stoppable, however, they are most certainly able to escape from. I mean, I've died 3 times prior to knowing their routes of travel, which guards are where for how long, etc. I never plan on defending myself, however have a plan for escape each time, each step I take. I have never died after my third death. My bounty just continues to grow as I continue to escape (NB).

IMO, I like exactly how it is. It is just another mechanic as to how to play... if you choose to 'play' this level.

GreySix

1ne2woBe wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

I see the necessity of having the guards be immortal, but they should be stoppable. Have them go down on a knee like a NPC on a quest when they get down to zero health. Don't make it easy to do it though. Maybe as tough as a world boss.

Once Enforcers are implented it should be more fun.

Thing is... They may not be stoppable, however, they are most certainly able to escape from. I mean, I've died 3 times prior to knowing their routes of travel, which guards are where for how long, etc. I never plan on defending myself, however have a plan for escape each time, each step I take. I have never died after my third death. My bounty just continues to grow as I continue to escape (NB).

IMO, I like exactly how it is. It is just another mechanic as to how to play... if you choose to 'play' this level.

You mean a smart crook who actually plans out his criminal activity won't necessarily wind up as a bloody pulp on the streets of the city?



That just might catch on!

Attorneyatlawl

Heck no, I don't want guards to be killable. That removes the already low risk of the pve justice system, since they are already scarce in patrol frequency and are generally fairly easy to get away from if one agro's you by simple los, dodge, and purge. My baby vr1 with no self heal has yet to die to one except when I foolishly entered a building forgetting that once struck in combat doors can no longer be interacted with, so I was literally trapped with no exit. Letting guards be killed will just make them not exist in all practicality, since on PTS they were easily fought down through most of their health solo on a template to on (425k or so health). They'd die immediately to 5 guys in town and be killed every respawn in short order.

Really, we need the pvp part of the whole justice system implemented, for there to be any real risk in it. It also would be a great component for fun, spontaneous happenings and gameplay.

wraith808

Gidorick wrote: »

tiamak wrote: »

In LotRO, there were training dummies in every town. They had around 5000k morale (hitpoints). If you attacked them, you were in combat for around 20 seconds. Then, you left combat and the dummy regenerated fully. So, obviously, they were not meant to be killed. One day, four raids of 24 chars each gathered in Galtrev. And that poor dummy was the first of his kind to die.

If you make guards mortal, people will kill them no matter how hard it's going to be. And they would depopulate cities all over Tamriel. With immortal guards, you must not get caught commiting a crime. End of the discussion. With mortal guards, it might not be too bad to kill some NPC right in front of the guard.

Not if. ...

Gidorick wrote: »

I think this could be handled a bit more... eloquently.

Guards should NOT be immortal but by killing a guard, the following happens:

• Each guard you kill will cause 2 to spawn and track you down
• Each guard you kill increases the attack damage of the next guard
• Each guard you kill increases the defense of the next guard
• Each guard you kill exponentially increases your bounty
• Each guard you kill increases how long the next guard will pursue you

Eventually, you'll be overwhelmed and you WILL die... but it's not impossible to kill guards all the time.

Kill 1 guard... you have 2 looking for you. Kill them? 4 come at you. Kill those 4? You now have 8. Kill them? 16... etc. etc. etc.

Sure there would be guilds that see how far they can get but it would be a losing battle with players "walking away" with 2 million gold bounties and unable to play as an upstanding citizen.

A single guard should be mortal, THE guard should be an unstoppable force.

Been to Cyrodil lately? That answers the question why you don't want that many to spawn. And get a group of people together... and we'll have picture shows in PvE. No thank you.

1ne2woBe

GreySix wrote: »

1ne2woBe wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

I see the necessity of having the guards be immortal, but they should be stoppable. Have them go down on a knee like a NPC on a quest when they get down to zero health. Don't make it easy to do it though. Maybe as tough as a world boss.

Once Enforcers are implented it should be more fun.

Thing is... They may not be stoppable, however, they are most certainly able to escape from. I mean, I've died 3 times prior to knowing their routes of travel, which guards are where for how long, etc. I never plan on defending myself, however have a plan for escape each time, each step I take. I have never died after my third death. My bounty just continues to grow as I continue to escape (NB).

IMO, I like exactly how it is. It is just another mechanic as to how to play... if you choose to 'play' this level.

You mean a smart crook who actually plans out his criminal activity won't necessarily wind up as a bloody pulp on the streets of the city?



That just might catch on!

LMAO... Yea right being able to be caught on! I believe there are 3 threads already complaining about this atm...

Gidorick

tiamak wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Guards should NOT be immortal but by killing a guard, the following happens:

• Each guard you kill will cause 2 to spawn and track you down
• Each guard you kill increases the attack damage of the next guard
• Each guard you kill increases the defense of the next guard
• Each guard you kill exponentially increases your bounty
• Each guard you kill increases how long the next guard will pursue you

Sure there would be guilds that see how far they can get but it would be a losing battle with players "walking away" with 2 million gold bounties and unable to play as an upstanding citizen.

A single guard should be mortal, THE guard should be an unstoppable force.

Ok, this does sound like a viable option with respect to the concern that commiting a crime should remain a dangerous thing to do. I still have two worries:

1. As long as you keep fighting The Guard, you're bound to get killed sooner or later. So, at some point you will want to run like hell. What exactly is the difference to immortal guards then?
2. Imagine a group of some 30 toons, gathering in a city and up for a brawl with the local guards. Of course, they are all well equipped and coordinated as a team. Let's say the could take twice the number of guards before their lines thin out. That would amount to a scuffle with 31 to 90 participants where at least 30 of them make heavy use of AOE-skills. I doubt that this would be healthy for the overall experience in said city.

Of course, the second point is rather pragmatic. Still, it is a point to consider. And given that the first point holds anyway, why not simply bite the anti-immersive bullet of immortal guards and avoid the issues connected with the second point?

It's about the illusion of choice. You might be able to fend off guards for s while but eventually, you'll die.

I think the exponentially increasing bounty would deter players from killing guards. Kill one +2000g. Kill the next Two +8000. Kill the next three +24000. The next 4 +64000. Then you die and now you have a 98,000g bounty. Was that worth killing 10 guards?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

They are invulnerable not immortal. I think its perfectly fine that way. otherwise people would simply be killing guards all day. Here is a thought. Don't build up huge bounties if you don't have any gold.

Gidorick

wraith808 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

tiamak wrote: »

In LotRO, there were training dummies in every town. They had around 5000k morale (hitpoints). If you attacked them, you were in combat for around 20 seconds. Then, you left combat and the dummy regenerated fully. So, obviously, they were not meant to be killed. One day, four raids of 24 chars each gathered in Galtrev. And that poor dummy was the first of his kind to die.

If you make guards mortal, people will kill them no matter how hard it's going to be. And they would depopulate cities all over Tamriel. With immortal guards, you must not get caught commiting a crime. End of the discussion. With mortal guards, it might not be too bad to kill some NPC right in front of the guard.

Not if. ...

Gidorick wrote: »

I think this could be handled a bit more... eloquently.

Guards should NOT be immortal but by killing a guard, the following happens:

• Each guard you kill will cause 2 to spawn and track you down
• Each guard you kill increases the attack damage of the next guard
• Each guard you kill increases the defense of the next guard
• Each guard you kill exponentially increases your bounty
• Each guard you kill increases how long the next guard will pursue you

Eventually, you'll be overwhelmed and you WILL die... but it's not impossible to kill guards all the time.

Kill 1 guard... you have 2 looking for you. Kill them? 4 come at you. Kill those 4? You now have 8. Kill them? 16... etc. etc. etc.

Sure there would be guilds that see how far they can get but it would be a losing battle with players "walking away" with 2 million gold bounties and unable to play as an upstanding citizen.

A single guard should be mortal, THE guard should be an unstoppable force.

Been to Cyrodil lately? That answers the question why you don't want that many to spawn. And get a group of people together... and we'll have picture shows in PvE. No thank you.

ZOS needing to optimize their hardware/network/engine is a whole different issue. ESO is "supposed" to be able to handle hundreds of players on screen at once. I go off the assumption that they can handle the increased activity.

GreySix

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO is "supposed" to be able to handle hundreds of players on screen at once. I go off the assumption that they can handle the increased activity.

Yeah, that briefs well on a PowerPoint slide, but not so much in practice.

Gidorick

GreySix wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO is "supposed" to be able to handle hundreds of players on screen at once. I go off the assumption that they can handle the increased activity.

Yeah, that briefs well on a PowerPoint slide, but not so much in practice.

I choose to be nieve and optimistic and believe that they're working toward this 'reality'.

wraith808

Gidorick wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO is "supposed" to be able to handle hundreds of players on screen at once. I go off the assumption that they can handle the increased activity.

Yeah, that briefs well on a PowerPoint slide, but not so much in practice.

I choose to be nieve and optimistic and believe that they're working toward this 'reality'.

Why not be naive and optimistic and assume the guards work?

Knight150

Minack wrote: »

CONCORD watches

Lol