Is the XP we earn in PVP good enough?

wOOOOt_of_SD

A poll to shed some light on how interested we are in ESO PVP and XP in PVP.

wOOOOt_of_SD

How should the xp in pvp Work?

More for pvp quest? Should imo be boosted 5x
More for guard kills?
More for keep and camp takes?
And xp for player kills? Maybe their lvl x their pvp rank? (level 50+vet, so 10-64) x pvp rank.
A lvl 50 player pvp rank 5 would give 250 xp, a V14 pvp rank 10 would give 640 xp..

Nihil

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

How should the xp in pvp Work?

More for pvp quest? Should imo be boosted 5x
More for guard kills?
More for keep and camp takes?
And xp for player kills? Maybe their lvl x their pvp rank? (level 50+vet, so 10-64) x pvp rank.
A lvl 50 player pvp rank 5 would give 250 xp, a V14 pvp rank 10 would give 640 xp..

quick note on the exp rates. Currently a player is worth ~ 4 times as much as a mob thus a player is worth 1.2k + (haven't paid close attention recently but solo kills give over 1k per kill typically) more players that tag the player will lower the over all exp. EXP from pvp kill quests are placed at the highest level of exp gained by quests currently, the other ones I don't recall off the top of my head but aren't "amazing". Keep and camp takes do seem a little low but I don't know numbers fully to comment on.

wOOOOt_of_SD

I often kill players and get nothing at all.

Theosis

there should be a small amount of XP per player kill

a larger mount for guards

and a good amount for destroying keeps

I know I would pvp if there was a real reward for it.. getting gear isn't that good, the rng gods insists on sending me cloth when wearing plate and plate when Im wearing cloth, the system should be completely redone

Enodoc

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

I often kill players and get nothing at all.

Same here. All I seem to get is AP; I didn't even realise you could get XP directly from killing players.

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

How should the xp in pvp Work?

More for pvp quest? Should imo be boosted 5x
More for guard kills?
More for keep and camp takes?
And xp for player kills? Maybe their lvl x their pvp rank? (level 50+vet, so 10-64) x pvp rank.
A lvl 50 player pvp rank 5 would give 250 xp, a V14 pvp rank 10 would give 640 xp..

XP from PvP quests does seem to be quite low for some of them, but consider that all reward XP must be drawn from the same multiplier chart. At Lvl 50 (any Veteran Rank), XP quest rewards can only be 499, 3742, 4990, 7485, or 11227 XP. To be sure that the easier quests (eg scouting) don't reward as much as the harder quests (eg Elder Scrolls), there's not really much they can do directly to the quests.
Keeps currently reward 4990, but that should be upped to 11227 for each keep, or at least 7485.
There should indeed be more XP for player kills and guard kills; how they calculate it though I don't mind.

eacorralesb14_ESO

Yes i agree, i only want to pvp and level up in pvp, but the xp there is very bad, they should give a big boost to keep take xp and killing other players. I'd like this boosted!

Faugaun

None of the answer choices aligns with me But I do think that PvP and pve should progress at similar speeds....perhaps one change could be that every faction member (zone wide) who earned AP within 15 min of a keep take gets exp for the keep take...I think its fair to say if 3 groups are attacking 3 keeps then they all equally helped to spread the enemy troops thinner. It is a logical reward for logical help and helps with the exp some.

Blud

The only reason I play this game for Cyro, which is the most ignored part of the game by ZOS.

I want to see

• Pvp xp improved
• Gear earned through pvp on par with what people get from Undaunted dailies and trials
• Something (anything?) done about campaigns: faction balance, buff servers gone, better something for underdogs?

Nijjion

They said they aren't not going to raise XP in PvP but they will really need to...

People who PvE lots will gain so much more champ levels quicker than someone who just PvPs.

TheBull

Nijjion wrote: »

They said they aren't not going to raise XP in PvP but they will really need to...

People who PvE lots will gain so much more champ levels quicker than someone who just PvPs.

People keep talking about that GinaBruno post, but prior to that after 1.5, with regards to 1.6, they said the plan to make it on par.

I've looked for the quote a couple times over the last couple days. I think it was said in a stream though

eliisra

Would like to add that PvE exp isn't that much better in 1.6, after they nerfed all grindspots. Even Spellscar is nerfed. Basic things like leveling skill lines or a new skill, is a long grind. Doesn't matter if you're doing PvE or PvP.

Instead of balancing PvP exp, they nerfed PvE exp. ZoS style. Guessing to prevent speedy CP progression, which is fair enough. To bad it affects everything else, such as grinding exp for your last VR levels or maxing a skill line.

For sure, PvE is still the fastest way to level up. But as far as grinding CP at level cap, I dont know. All options seems fairly slow. If someone magically finds a decent exp spot in PvE, be sure they wont tell a living soul about it.

Faugaun

eliisra wrote: »

If someone magically finds a decent exp spot in PvE, be sure they wont tell a living soul about it.

Whistles innocently...

Derra

And zos will say: PvP xp is fine. It was just buffed in 1.5 to match the 70k/h you´re getting when reading all the quest texts. Someone winning every fight will just hit that sweet spot!!!

Edit: I´m aware of pvp xp being hard to balance and that almost every game with decent xp gains in pvp did that with structured pvp (warzones/arena) because those are far easier to balance.

Darlgon

Where is the option for:

I quilt leveling in PVE to allow more XP for Champion Point and leveled FASTER in Cyrodiil.

wOOOOt_of_SD

Darlgon wrote: »

Where is the option for:

I quilt leveling in PVE to allow more XP for Champion Point and leveled FASTER in Cyrodiil.

You obviously did something very wrong in PVE!
Or you just do PVE Quest hubs in Cyrodiil, and log out after a short while.

Faugaun

Derra wrote: »

And zos will say: PvP xp is fine. It was just buffed in 1.5 to match the 70k/h you´re getting when reading all the quest texts. Someone winning every fight will just hit that sweet spot!!!

Edit: I´m aware of pvp xp being hard to balance and that almost every game with decent xp gains in pvp did that with structured pvp (warzones/arena) because those are far easier to balance.

@Derra Please explain

Why is it hard to balance? I don't think it is hard at all...you use moving exp gains based on input statistical data (which zos has and hopefully already tracks) then create modifiers with counter balances to give exp to the average player at the desired average rate. Then to prevent abuse you institute a daily cap (say 6 cp per day).

Dazin93

@TheBull
Here you go.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Thanks! There are at least three threads floating around today on this XP for achievements issue so I think a lot of people would appreciate clarification.

Ok, we can confirm that some achievements will grant XP upon completion. This is intended, and we won't be removing it. Sorry for the confusion, guys!

As for the topic at-hand, a maximum of 70 Champion Points was a number we felt was fair for the conversion and with the launch of Update 6 around the corner, it will not be changed. That said, we understand there's some concern about earning XP beyond Silver and Gold content. Outside of quests, you can also earn XP by killing monsters, going through dungeons, finishing Crafting Writs, participating in the Alliance War, and completing repeatable quests. We're also looking at increasing the XP you receive from Veteran Dungeons, but that's still a work in progress.

Can you comment on the possibility of increasing XP gains from PvP in Cyrodil, not including the repeatable PvE quests.

We actually did raise XP gain in Cyrodiil back when Update 5 was released. Based on data we've been watching, XP gain specifically in Cyrodiil varies quite a bit - some players get a lot, but others may not get as much. We'll continue to keep an eye on it, but there's no immediate plans to increase it again.

TheBull

Dazin93 wrote: »

@TheBull
Here you go.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Thanks! There are at least three threads floating around today on this XP for achievements issue so I think a lot of people would appreciate clarification.

Ok, we can confirm that some achievements will grant XP upon completion. This is intended, and we won't be removing it. Sorry for the confusion, guys!

As for the topic at-hand, a maximum of 70 Champion Points was a number we felt was fair for the conversion and with the launch of Update 6 around the corner, it will not be changed. That said, we understand there's some concern about earning XP beyond Silver and Gold content. Outside of quests, you can also earn XP by killing monsters, going through dungeons, finishing Crafting Writs, participating in the Alliance War, and completing repeatable quests. We're also looking at increasing the XP you receive from Veteran Dungeons, but that's still a work in progress.

Can you comment on the possibility of increasing XP gains from PvP in Cyrodil, not including the repeatable PvE quests.

We actually did raise XP gain in Cyrodiil back when Update 5 was released. Based on data we've been watching, XP gain specifically in Cyrodiil varies quite a bit - some players get a lot, but others may not get as much. We'll continue to keep an eye on it, but there's no immediate plans to increase it again.

No that's the one people keep quoting. I'm talking about the statement where they plan to make Cyrodiil pvp on par. This was post 1.5, regarding 1.6, prior to Gina's statement and it was from a dev.

Yeah idk man. My googlefu is usually pretty good. I just can't find this one which leads me to believe it was spoken and not written Ty for trying though.

edit - Here's another guy who remembers. No quote though
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149003/1-6-pvp-experience

Derra

Faugaun wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

And zos will say: PvP xp is fine. It was just buffed in 1.5 to match the 70k/h you´re getting when reading all the quest texts. Someone winning every fight will just hit that sweet spot!!!

Edit: I´m aware of pvp xp being hard to balance and that almost every game with decent xp gains in pvp did that with structured pvp (warzones/arena) because those are far easier to balance.

@Derra Please explain

Why is it hard to balance? I don't think it is hard at all...you use moving exp gains based on input statistical data (which zos has and hopefully already tracks) then create modifiers with counter balances to give exp to the average player at the desired average rate. Then to prevent abuse you institute a daily cap (say 6 cp per day).

If you´re going to introduce a daily cap on CP earned in pvp you would have to do the same for the pve folks for the sake of equality (personally i like the idea of a daily cap but i know a whole lot of people who don´t).

However if you don´t have those caps and balance it around the xp the avarage player in cyrodiil makes you´re going to have some people vastly outperforming that - thats just the nature of pvp.
Should you add modifiers to xp gains for those people - how would you explain that? "Guys, you outperform the avarage player and therefor have to take a nerf to your xp gains as we don´t want you to have benefits for being better?" I can´t even imagine the discussions this would lead to.

Personally i think zenimax is looking at the top 10% of players when looking at xp gains in pvp and compares those to their intended xp gains when questing through veteran zones (atleast that would explain why they think xp gains in pvp are fine). However a person killing mobs aka grinding (an intended way to level champions points for people that have only 1 vr14 char and all quests finished) will vastly outperform those playstyles.
One could say that mobs award to much xp (still) or that questing and pvping is to slow with pvp having the downside that zenimax ist most likely doing their math with xp numbers of top performers.

Vanzen

Faugaun wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

If someone magically finds a decent exp spot in PvE, be sure they wont tell a living soul about it.

Whistles innocently...

There are. A few. Realy few. Not the one you would think about. But worse. Not availlable anymore to completionists. Here was the hint.

Nihil

Faugaun wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

And zos will say: PvP xp is fine. It was just buffed in 1.5 to match the 70k/h you´re getting when reading all the quest texts. Someone winning every fight will just hit that sweet spot!!!

Edit: I´m aware of pvp xp being hard to balance and that almost every game with decent xp gains in pvp did that with structured pvp (warzones/arena) because those are far easier to balance.

@Derra Please explain

Why is it hard to balance? I don't think it is hard at all...you use moving exp gains based on input statistical data (which zos has and hopefully already tracks) then create modifiers with counter balances to give exp to the average player at the desired average rate. Then to prevent abuse you institute a daily cap (say 6 cp per day).

Balance is hard as no matter how much exp you give for pvp it will never be balanced. If you balance it for the "average" player the good players will sky rocket way faster then you could else where. You also leave more room for abuse by having guilds trade kills. You also run risk by putting per daily limit, where do you set it at? Do you figure it based on max enlightenment (3 cp worth) + rest of the hours in a day? or do you base it on typical exp gain (no enlightenment)? Will the modifier also change then based on when they re implement forward camps (modified of course) as more players will then be respawning at keeps allowing for a higher up time on kills (and more people being suicidal). While I hope they do balance it, saying it is easy is definitely a long shot, I have seen the kill trading in other games and it can lead to some massive imbalances.

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

I often kill players and get nothing at all.

huh.... Don't know what to say there, I constantly get exp from killing players, the amount varies based on other players around (as more people tag him getting only a % of his exp) and maybe some other factors I am to lazy to try and figure out.

link to a video where you see he gets any where from like 600 VP (xp) - 1390 VP (xp) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpL41vNML7s

LtCrunch

You have a "neutral" and "don't care" option, where is the "I think XP gains in PVP are fine" option?

Derra

Brandalf wrote: »

You have a "neutral" and "don't care" option, where is the "I think XP gains in PVP are fine" option?

Well you are technically correct - i have to ask though: Is there anybody that believes pvp xp gains are fine?

Faugaun

Derra wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

And zos will say: PvP xp is fine. It was just buffed in 1.5 to match the 70k/h you´re getting when reading all the quest texts. Someone winning every fight will just hit that sweet spot!!!

Edit: I´m aware of pvp xp being hard to balance and that almost every game with decent xp gains in pvp did that with structured pvp (warzones/arena) because those are far easier to balance.

@Derra Please explain

Why is it hard to balance? I don't think it is hard at all...you use moving exp gains based on input statistical data (which zos has and hopefully already tracks) then create modifiers with counter balances to give exp to the average player at the desired average rate. Then to prevent abuse you institute a daily cap (say 6 cp per day).

If you´re going to introduce a daily cap on CP earned in pvp you would have to do the same for the pve folks for the sake of equality (personally i like the idea of a daily cap but i know a whole lot of people who don´t).

However if you don´t have those caps and balance it around the xp the avarage player in cyrodiil makes you´re going to have some people vastly outperforming that - thats just the nature of pvp.
Should you add modifiers to xp gains for those people - how would you explain that? "Guys, you outperform the avarage player and therefor have to take a nerf to your xp gains as we don´t want you to have benefits for being better?" I can´t even imagine the discussions this would lead to.

Personally i think zenimax is looking at the top 10% of players when looking at xp gains in pvp and compares those to their intended xp gains when questing through veteran zones (atleast that would explain why they think xp gains in pvp are fine). However a person killing mobs aka grinding (an intended way to level champions points for people that have only 1 vr14 char and all quests finished) will vastly outperform those playstyles.
One could say that mobs award to much xp (still) or that questing and pvping is to slow with pvp having the downside that zenimax ist most likely doing their math with xp numbers of top performers.

@derra

I don't think the mass majority of players have a problem with a cap they will never reach and it should be set where it doesn't impact most players (BTW 6 cp would require 12 hours of play in a single day at Zos's goal accrual rate)...I think most players would be welcome to preventing exploiters from running away in power compared to everyone else...plus if you're making 6 cp per day....you need to get out more...seriously. So yes I think the player base will be perfectly happy for a limit that they would never see anyways at Zos's intended acrural rate.

Regarding the bolded portion...I would explain it like this a player fighting on a team with 10 people versus 200 people deserves more experience because it took a lot more work to get those kills. Also a less skilled team that takes out a more skilled team deserves more experience because they did that much better.

Here's a very basic calculator that illustrates what I am talking about:


http://asolutionaday.com/general/proposed-mmo-pvp-time-delayed-exp-calculator/

Greeniewolfub17_ESO

You need an option for xp in pvp is way to high. A week in pvp and I've outleveled the current zone. A month in pvp took me from vr1 to vr14.

Darlgon

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Where is the option for:

I quilt leveling in PVE to allow more XP for Champion Point and leveled FASTER in Cyrodiil.

You obviously did something very wrong in PVE!
Or you just do PVE Quest hubs in Cyrodiil, and log out after a short while.

I have every quest hub, skyshard, POI, dolman and book done before I leave the zone. Just not the four mans. Takes time, but is more relaxing than always running around watching yours or others backs.

Tsute

Greeniewolfub17_ESO wrote: »

You need an option for xp in pvp is way to high. A week in pvp and I've outleveled the current zone. A month in pvp took me from vr1 to vr14.

I spent a week playing pvp semi-casual after I finished the main story. In that time, I maintained a sub-200 ranking, dropping just under 100 in time to get the top reward tier at match reset, and gained 2 1/2 vet levels. This is from picking up all the quests from the outset, turning in the kill quests the second they completed, and generally working the board until it stopped giving me stuff to do. It was hella fun and I'd do it again in a second. I only stopped because I didn't want to completely gray out pve leveling.

Faugaun

Greeniewolfub17_ESO wrote: »

You need an option for xp in pvp is way to high. A week in pvp and I've outleveled the current zone. A month in pvp took me from vr1 to vr14.

7 days grinding in craglorn took me from vr1 to vr14, not exploiting doing delve clears.

LtCrunch

Derra wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

You have a "neutral" and "don't care" option, where is the "I think XP gains in PVP are fine" option?

Well you are technically correct - i have to ask though: Is there anybody that believes pvp xp gains are fine?

Well according to the devs(as per the last ESO Live) there are players that have great XP gains for PVP, so there may well be people who are happy with the current XP gains. I'm not one of them, but I think for a proper poll that's informative and minimalizes possible bias it's important to cover all bases.

Faugaun

Brandalf wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

You have a "neutral" and "don't care" option, where is the "I think XP gains in PVP are fine" option?

Well you are technically correct - i have to ask though: Is there anybody that believes pvp xp gains are fine?

Well according to the devs(as per the last ESO Live) there are players that have great XP gains for PVP, so there may well be people who are happy with the current XP gains. I'm not one of them, but I think for a proper poll that's informative and minimalizes possible bias it's important to cover all bases.

Agree the current poll will of course support ops opinion because it doesn't allow for an opposing opinion.