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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• [IN PROGRESS] PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
[1.6] Circle of Protection: The cost of staying alive (WALL OF TEXT)
likewow777
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I want to preface this by saying, I'm part of the group of people who truly like 1.6 and the changes. Admittedly, day one of PTS wasn't exactly smooth sailing, but I like where it is today. The game feels more balanced, and my characters feel more powerful, especially with CPs dialed in (I mean 70 CPs, not the 3600, btw). I'm also pretty sure this won't get addressed since it's pretty close to 1.6 going live and this is, after all, a giant wall of text.
Still, I must vent a little...
Why is Circle of Protection so expensive? I'm genuinely interested in a justification, because I can't find one that fully pans out. I've only got a template character right now, but my approximate numbers are:
Base cost - ~7000 stamina
3600 CPs - ~5500 stamina
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any other skill available for everyone to use, apart from Alliance War ones, that costs this much. More puzzling, the cost on live isn't that expensive. I use it all the time for tanking, Ring of Preservation morph, and despite the stamina cost of tanking and using a stamina skill, I'm fine. I'm even magicka based, so I don't focus on boosting stamina. Granted, because of the way numbers scale in 1.6, I have had to re-enchant things on PTS to provide stamina. But I'm alright with that.
Here are some points:
1. A very expensive skill should also be very good. Makes sense to me. Circle of Protection, the unmorphed version, just isn't "very good". For it to be "very good", it needs a longer duration (10 seconds is so short) and a bigger radius. The morphs try and remedy this by doing damage and giving allies buffs as well, but it's not good enough. If a skill is going to disappear quickly and be small, you should be able to cast it more often, not less.
2. It's a defensive skill, but the cost increase almost feels like I'm being punished for trying to stay alive. It doesn't do damage or cause enemies to be snared, and it's a relatively small AoE, so it's also a pretty situational thing. Tanks and healers, who are stationary more of the time, are really the best candidates. However, tanks already have a job of keeping stamina up, and a good one will try and keep 2-3 of the higher level enemies beating on them. Casting a 7k stamina skill repeatedly can easily lead to suicide. Not to mention, a pure healer probably won't have points in stamina, and the base amount you get is something like 7800. So they can cast it once. Which leads to...
3. Assuming a regen of 500-1000 every 2 seconds, that means over the 10 seconds Circle lasts, you will recover +/- 2500-5000 stamina. Of course, that further assumes you're literally standing still in combat and not blocking/dodge rolling/etc. Heavy attacks and pots are further ways to get stamina back, but it's a weird idea to me to be at the mercy of a skill. Using a skill and then having to clean up the mess it causes to your stats.
I checked all the PTS patch notes, and nowhere does it say Circle of Protection scales off stamina either, but I'll create a stamina based template tonight and check if it changes costs. Expert Hunter does specifically say it scales off stamina, so either they left that out for Circle or it doesn't scale.
Well, that's all. If you read this far, congratulations, and I'm sorry. I haven't really seen this subject, specifically, in a single post, and this at least needs to be mentioned.
TL;DR: Circle of Protection and morphs cost too much, don't give back enough, and the result is that, essentially, a perfectly valid skill is now removed from normal usage.
Thoughts? Explanations? A good joke?
Still, I must vent a little...
Why is Circle of Protection so expensive? I'm genuinely interested in a justification, because I can't find one that fully pans out. I've only got a template character right now, but my approximate numbers are:
Base cost - ~7000 stamina
3600 CPs - ~5500 stamina
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any other skill available for everyone to use, apart from Alliance War ones, that costs this much. More puzzling, the cost on live isn't that expensive. I use it all the time for tanking, Ring of Preservation morph, and despite the stamina cost of tanking and using a stamina skill, I'm fine. I'm even magicka based, so I don't focus on boosting stamina. Granted, because of the way numbers scale in 1.6, I have had to re-enchant things on PTS to provide stamina. But I'm alright with that.
Here are some points:
1. A very expensive skill should also be very good. Makes sense to me. Circle of Protection, the unmorphed version, just isn't "very good". For it to be "very good", it needs a longer duration (10 seconds is so short) and a bigger radius. The morphs try and remedy this by doing damage and giving allies buffs as well, but it's not good enough. If a skill is going to disappear quickly and be small, you should be able to cast it more often, not less.
2. It's a defensive skill, but the cost increase almost feels like I'm being punished for trying to stay alive. It doesn't do damage or cause enemies to be snared, and it's a relatively small AoE, so it's also a pretty situational thing. Tanks and healers, who are stationary more of the time, are really the best candidates. However, tanks already have a job of keeping stamina up, and a good one will try and keep 2-3 of the higher level enemies beating on them. Casting a 7k stamina skill repeatedly can easily lead to suicide. Not to mention, a pure healer probably won't have points in stamina, and the base amount you get is something like 7800. So they can cast it once. Which leads to...
3. Assuming a regen of 500-1000 every 2 seconds, that means over the 10 seconds Circle lasts, you will recover +/- 2500-5000 stamina. Of course, that further assumes you're literally standing still in combat and not blocking/dodge rolling/etc. Heavy attacks and pots are further ways to get stamina back, but it's a weird idea to me to be at the mercy of a skill. Using a skill and then having to clean up the mess it causes to your stats.
I checked all the PTS patch notes, and nowhere does it say Circle of Protection scales off stamina either, but I'll create a stamina based template tonight and check if it changes costs. Expert Hunter does specifically say it scales off stamina, so either they left that out for Circle or it doesn't scale.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
- Circle of Protection
- This ability now grants the Major Fortitude buff, and the value is increased by 50% against Daedra and undead.
- Fixed an issue where the bonus damage reduction was not being applied when a vampire would attack you.
- Ring of preservation (morph): This ability now grants the Major Health Regeneration buff.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
- Expert Hunter
- This ability now always provides you with the Major Weapon Crit buff.
- This ability now lasts for 15 seconds and grants a 4% chance to deal additional damage to the target, with the chance increased to 15% against Daedra.
- Expert Hunter and its morphs now correctly scale off Power and Stamina, and the crit chance is calculated based on your Critical Strike chance.
- Damage over time and channeled abilities now have a chance to proc Expert Hunter on the first tick.
- Camouflaged Hunter (morph): This ability now makes it less likely that you will be detected by Daedra while stealthed.
Well, that's all. If you read this far, congratulations, and I'm sorry. I haven't really seen this subject, specifically, in a single post, and this at least needs to be mentioned.
TL;DR: Circle of Protection and morphs cost too much, don't give back enough, and the result is that, essentially, a perfectly valid skill is now removed from normal usage.
Thoughts? Explanations? A good joke?
"War doesn't build character, it reveals it."
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likewow777✭✭✭Slight modification:
In point 2, I did say there's no damage, forgetting that Turn Undead, one of the morphs, does do damage and instills enemies with Fear. I still don't think that morph and the damage it does justifies an enormous cost, but a small cost increase over the base skill might be alright."War doesn't build character, it reveals it."0