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Upset about the DK changes to Ash Cloud and it's morphs

Djeriko
Djeriko
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ZOS Can you please bring back the miss chance to the Dragonknight ability Ash Cloud and its morph Cinder Storm. Granted the idea to give eruption morph fire damage on cast was a good choice sense eruption is exactly what it should do. My point is how can someone really fight effectively with ash and smoke in their face? The answer is they can't so the miss chance was completely logical. If you want, lower it from 30% miss chance to 20%. But put it back on the ability. If it means we lose the ground targeting part, I'm cool with that. If the main reason it's been changed because it was powerful then you have to remember it's the last skill in that tree so it's supposed to be strong. Your changes make me want to not use that ability at all. If I want a ground targeted aoe with DOT I will get the mages guild scalding rune. Why clone scalding rune and put it on the DK skill line?

Idea to run with:

Ash Cloud is player based aoe on cast that stays where it was cast. Causes snare and miss chance of 20% at max level.

Cinder Storm same tool tip as Ash cloud except it cases flame damage over time. Increased damage as level increases. This way you get player based aoe with snare, miss chance and flame damage over time.

Eruption can have your ground targeting effect with the flame damage upon cast. Causes snare and disorientation, lasts as long on the ground as the other morphs but no miss chance. The added disorientation to enemies on cast makes up for lost miss chance.

With these viable options, the Dragonknight can chose to play as defense or offense. Does this not sound better than just completely scrapping a very loved ability that will now become far less used based on the changes coming in 1.6?
"When in doubt, kill it with fire."
  • Cody
    Cody
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    i always thought it was utterly ridiculous DKs had an ability granting higher miss chance than the NBs ability; seeing as how NBs are supposed to be quick assassins and DKs slow, tough tanks.

    guess its just my opinion.
  • Djeriko
    Djeriko
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    Agreed. The dodge and miss chance should max out the same. Lowering I can understand. Removing it not so much especially since dodge is still in the game
    "When in doubt, kill it with fire."
  • Lhorion
    Lhorion
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    It is a huge nerf, but it was time for that! 70% Snare and the miss chance was a bit too much for the low costs and the stamina you got back. In my oppinion higher costs (like cost x2 or x3) would have been annother way, but so it is okay, too. Still a good snare with instant damage on the Eruption morph. Also you can place it as a range field which is good, too. All in all a nerf - yes, but it is okay for me.
  • Panda244
    Panda244
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    At first glance, yes, the change to Ash Cloud looks like it's been nerfed very hard, and yes, this change will indeed hurt Dragonknight tanks that used the ability to mitigate some incoming damage. However, this change, is also, a blatantly overpowered buff.
    • Choking Talons
    • Call forth talons from the ground to deal (x) Physical Damage and immobilize nearby enemies for 4 seconds. Talons also afflict enemies with Minor Maim, reducing their damage by 15% for 4 seconds. While enemies are held, an ally can activate the Impale synergy, dealing (x) Physical Damage to enemies held within talons.
    • Costs 3,651 Magicka - 6m Radius
    • Cinder Storm
    • Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, dealing (x) Flame Damage to enemies every 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Also reduces enemies' Movement Speed by 70% for 2.5 seconds even if they leave the area.
    • Costs 4,069 Magicka - 22m Range - 5m Radius
    @Cody You think the fact that Dragonknights had miss chance was bad? This nerf essentially gave Dragonknights a 22 Meter Ranged 70% Snare, that can't be rolled out of or purged, and it's just as easy to spam as Talons, alone, both abilities can be somewhat ignored, but with Talons and Cinder Storm, Talons a group of five people, drop Cinder Storm, and they can't even roll dodge away from the second Talons because they're snared for 70% even if they leave the effect.

    This change was only a nerf to Dragonknight tanks, it's a gigantically large oversight, overpowered buff, to any Dragonknight in PvP. They can not only Root their targets, but now, with the combination of Talons and Cinder Storm, we're back to the days of when Talons had an 8m Range, because with a 70% snare you're not roll dodging far enough away to get out of the second Talons, and even if you do, odds are, the Dragonknight can tap the "W" key and be in range to Talons you again.

    So Cody, give me my miss chance back? Cause you can be as sure as hell that I'll combine Cinder Storm and Talons to prevent my enemies' from fleeing the battle, where before, they could roll dodge away.
    Aldmeri Dominion For Life!
    Crassus Licinius II - DK - V14 - Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade NA (The Dragonknight that refuses to go Vampire.)
    N'tel Arlena - NB - V14 - Retired Sap Tank of Haderus NA, Harasser of Many (Also, not a vampire. Goes by nickname Nutella.)

    #FreeZazeer
    #FreeGooey
    #FreeAsgari
    #FreeAoE
    #FreeSubtomik
    #FreeMBF

    Officially Resigned From Cyrodiil As Of 4/15/15 10:24 PM EST.
  • Djeriko
    Djeriko
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    Panda244 wrote: »
    At first glance, yes, the change to Ash Cloud looks like it's been nerfed very hard, and yes, this change will indeed hurt Dragonknight tanks that used the ability to mitigate some incoming damage. However, this change, is also, a blatantly overpowered buff.
    • Choking Talons
    • Call forth talons from the ground to deal (x) Physical Damage and immobilize nearby enemies for 4 seconds. Talons also afflict enemies with Minor Maim, reducing their damage by 15% for 4 seconds. While enemies are held, an ally can activate the Impale synergy, dealing (x) Physical Damage to enemies held within talons.
    • Costs 3,651 Magicka - 6m Radius
    • Cinder Storm
    • Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, dealing (x) Flame Damage to enemies every 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Also reduces enemies' Movement Speed by 70% for 2.5 seconds even if they leave the area.
    • Costs 4,069 Magicka - 22m Range - 5m Radius
    @Cody You think the fact that Dragonknights had miss chance was bad? This nerf essentially gave Dragonknights a 22 Meter Ranged 70% Snare, that can't be rolled out of or purged, and it's just as easy to spam as Talons, alone, both abilities can be somewhat ignored, but with Talons and Cinder Storm, Talons a group of five people, drop Cinder Storm, and they can't even roll dodge away from the second Talons because they're snared for 70% even if they leave the effect.

    This change was only a nerf to Dragonknight tanks, it's a gigantically large oversight, overpowered buff, to any Dragonknight in PvP. They can not only Root their targets, but now, with the combination of Talons and Cinder Storm, we're back to the days of when Talons had an 8m Range, because with a 70% snare you're not roll dodging far enough away to get out of the second Talons, and even if you do, odds are, the Dragonknight can tap the "W" key and be in range to Talons you again.

    So Cody, give me my miss chance back? Cause you can be as sure as hell that I'll combine Cinder Storm and Talons to prevent my enemies' from fleeing the battle, where before, they could roll dodge away.

    My DK is a tank and it's exactly as you say that the nerf is only going to hurt the tanks. The dps dk's are going to love eruption now since you can send it a distance away. It's not as useful to a tank who prefers in your face fighting. That's why I say the choice between distance with damage and player targeted area will miss chance should be the two morphs. This would give both morphs usefulness.
    Edited by Djeriko on March 1, 2015 10:35PM
    "When in doubt, kill it with fire."
  • Cody
    Cody
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    Panda244 wrote: »
    At first glance, yes, the change to Ash Cloud looks like it's been nerfed very hard, and yes, this change will indeed hurt Dragonknight tanks that used the ability to mitigate some incoming damage. However, this change, is also, a blatantly overpowered buff.
    • Choking Talons
    • Call forth talons from the ground to deal (x) Physical Damage and immobilize nearby enemies for 4 seconds. Talons also afflict enemies with Minor Maim, reducing their damage by 15% for 4 seconds. While enemies are held, an ally can activate the Impale synergy, dealing (x) Physical Damage to enemies held within talons.
    • Costs 3,651 Magicka - 6m Radius
    • Cinder Storm
    • Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, dealing (x) Flame Damage to enemies every 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Also reduces enemies' Movement Speed by 70% for 2.5 seconds even if they leave the area.
    • Costs 4,069 Magicka - 22m Range - 5m Radius
    @Cody You think the fact that Dragonknights had miss chance was bad? This nerf essentially gave Dragonknights a 22 Meter Ranged 70% Snare, that can't be rolled out of or purged, and it's just as easy to spam as Talons, alone, both abilities can be somewhat ignored, but with Talons and Cinder Storm, Talons a group of five people, drop Cinder Storm, and they can't even roll dodge away from the second Talons because they're snared for 70% even if they leave the effect.

    This change was only a nerf to Dragonknight tanks, it's a gigantically large oversight, overpowered buff, to any Dragonknight in PvP. They can not only Root their targets, but now, with the combination of Talons and Cinder Storm, we're back to the days of when Talons had an 8m Range, because with a 70% snare you're not roll dodging far enough away to get out of the second Talons, and even if you do, odds are, the Dragonknight can tap the "W" key and be in range to Talons you again.

    So Cody, give me my miss chance back? Cause you can be as sure as hell that I'll combine Cinder Storm and Talons to prevent my enemies' from fleeing the battle, where before, they could roll dodge away.

    if i give your miss chance back, i want blur and evasion to have the exact same percentage.

    ANYWAY this new combo does not sound good, and will lead more people to cry "OP DK" when it goes thru. Unless they are too busy calling the templar OP.

    1.6 is going to be interesting to say the least:)
    Edited by Cody on March 1, 2015 10:39PM
  • Panda244
    Panda244
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    Cody wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    At first glance, yes, the change to Ash Cloud looks like it's been nerfed very hard, and yes, this change will indeed hurt Dragonknight tanks that used the ability to mitigate some incoming damage. However, this change, is also, a blatantly overpowered buff.
    • Choking Talons
    • Call forth talons from the ground to deal (x) Physical Damage and immobilize nearby enemies for 4 seconds. Talons also afflict enemies with Minor Maim, reducing their damage by 15% for 4 seconds. While enemies are held, an ally can activate the Impale synergy, dealing (x) Physical Damage to enemies held within talons.
    • Costs 3,651 Magicka - 6m Radius
    • Cinder Storm
    • Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, dealing (x) Flame Damage to enemies every 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Also reduces enemies' Movement Speed by 70% for 2.5 seconds even if they leave the area.
    • Costs 4,069 Magicka - 22m Range - 5m Radius
    @Cody You think the fact that Dragonknights had miss chance was bad? This nerf essentially gave Dragonknights a 22 Meter Ranged 70% Snare, that can't be rolled out of or purged, and it's just as easy to spam as Talons, alone, both abilities can be somewhat ignored, but with Talons and Cinder Storm, Talons a group of five people, drop Cinder Storm, and they can't even roll dodge away from the second Talons because they're snared for 70% even if they leave the effect.

    This change was only a nerf to Dragonknight tanks, it's a gigantically large oversight, overpowered buff, to any Dragonknight in PvP. They can not only Root their targets, but now, with the combination of Talons and Cinder Storm, we're back to the days of when Talons had an 8m Range, because with a 70% snare you're not roll dodging far enough away to get out of the second Talons, and even if you do, odds are, the Dragonknight can tap the "W" key and be in range to Talons you again.

    So Cody, give me my miss chance back? Cause you can be as sure as hell that I'll combine Cinder Storm and Talons to prevent my enemies' from fleeing the battle, where before, they could roll dodge away.

    if i give your miss chance back, i want blur and evasion to have the exact same percentage.

    ANYWAY this new combo does not sound good, and will lead more people to cry "OP DK" when it goes thru. Unless they are too busy calling the templar OP.

    1.6 is going to be interesting to say the least:)

    Alright, then don't complain when I snare and root you until you die in 1.6 :naughty:
    Aldmeri Dominion For Life!
    Crassus Licinius II - DK - V14 - Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade NA (The Dragonknight that refuses to go Vampire.)
    N'tel Arlena - NB - V14 - Retired Sap Tank of Haderus NA, Harasser of Many (Also, not a vampire. Goes by nickname Nutella.)

    #FreeZazeer
    #FreeGooey
    #FreeAsgari
    #FreeAoE
    #FreeSubtomik
    #FreeMBF

    Officially Resigned From Cyrodiil As Of 4/15/15 10:24 PM EST.
  • Lhorion
    Lhorion
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    Worst case would be that he does not need to run away from you .
    Edited by Lhorion on March 2, 2015 2:08AM
  • xMovingTarget
    xMovingTarget
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    I totally love the new Ash Cloud. For me as DD DK, Eruption is damn good now. It´s way better as Cinderstorm. 2 ticks per second instead of 1. I can place it wherever i want. It´s ridiculously better. Also the initial damage.
  • Cody
    Cody
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    Panda244 wrote: »
    Cody wrote: »
    Panda244 wrote: »
    At first glance, yes, the change to Ash Cloud looks like it's been nerfed very hard, and yes, this change will indeed hurt Dragonknight tanks that used the ability to mitigate some incoming damage. However, this change, is also, a blatantly overpowered buff.
    • Choking Talons
    • Call forth talons from the ground to deal (x) Physical Damage and immobilize nearby enemies for 4 seconds. Talons also afflict enemies with Minor Maim, reducing their damage by 15% for 4 seconds. While enemies are held, an ally can activate the Impale synergy, dealing (x) Physical Damage to enemies held within talons.
    • Costs 3,651 Magicka - 6m Radius
    • Cinder Storm
    • Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, dealing (x) Flame Damage to enemies every 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Also reduces enemies' Movement Speed by 70% for 2.5 seconds even if they leave the area.
    • Costs 4,069 Magicka - 22m Range - 5m Radius
    @Cody You think the fact that Dragonknights had miss chance was bad? This nerf essentially gave Dragonknights a 22 Meter Ranged 70% Snare, that can't be rolled out of or purged, and it's just as easy to spam as Talons, alone, both abilities can be somewhat ignored, but with Talons and Cinder Storm, Talons a group of five people, drop Cinder Storm, and they can't even roll dodge away from the second Talons because they're snared for 70% even if they leave the effect.

    This change was only a nerf to Dragonknight tanks, it's a gigantically large oversight, overpowered buff, to any Dragonknight in PvP. They can not only Root their targets, but now, with the combination of Talons and Cinder Storm, we're back to the days of when Talons had an 8m Range, because with a 70% snare you're not roll dodging far enough away to get out of the second Talons, and even if you do, odds are, the Dragonknight can tap the "W" key and be in range to Talons you again.

    So Cody, give me my miss chance back? Cause you can be as sure as hell that I'll combine Cinder Storm and Talons to prevent my enemies' from fleeing the battle, where before, they could roll dodge away.

    if i give your miss chance back, i want blur and evasion to have the exact same percentage.

    ANYWAY this new combo does not sound good, and will lead more people to cry "OP DK" when it goes thru. Unless they are too busy calling the templar OP.

    1.6 is going to be interesting to say the least:)

    Alright, then don't complain when I snare and root you until you die in 1.6 :naughty:

    i wont be running when it comes to 1.6 unless I am outnumbered 3:1

    plus i plan to make use of shuffle:)
    Edited by Cody on March 3, 2015 3:44AM
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