Two improvement ideas for guild stores. Packages and buy orders

Tapio75

Packages

As i use the guild store and sell stuff like item sets, i find it awkward to put each piece of the set separately on the store. Package would come in picture here. You could "pack" the item set you created or any other stuff you want to sell as one like ancient elf motif plus stack of palladium as extra or anything else and then put that whole package in the guild store for sale. When hovering mouse over package that is on sale, it would show list of contents of the package with levels and enchants. It would also show sets name. Then you would be able to sell sets as whole set with price set for that whoöle package instead of forced to search and buy/sell each piece separately. Please add to this your own vision of the package if you have one.. I would also love to see ideas of what the package descriptiuon could look like or what it would actually show so that it is simple and informative enough at the same time.

Buy order

This is something we use a lot in the EVE online, it helps to keep prices and economy working well and also gives people a way to show what they are really wishing to buy instead of just people putting random items at store and wish that someone is interested in that stuff.. For example, if i would want to buy iron ore, 200 pieces of it. I would then place a buy order and set a price for unit of iron ore so that a stack of 200 would cost me 200 gold for example. Now that i have placed my buy order, people could sell their iron ore for me, 1 piece or 10 piece or the whole 200 at once if they have enough of that stuff. These buy orders are such, that anyone could sell to me and everyone selling to me would also grow my stack until i have the whole 2 100 stacks of iron ore i ordered for.

In other case, someone could place a buy order for daedra hearts, or palladium.. Or Birch orany items that are heavy iron and have intricate trait on them.. There are many possibilities..

This system could also be improved even further by using guild vendors as a tool for anyone to place regional buy orders.. One could for example, place a buy order near a zone where he knows are lot of those iron ore nodes... Or near a source of them daedra hearts... Then people could also seek for better prices by travelling a bit further away from cities.. I know that this would get easily shunned by todays gamers due lack of willingness to mobilise themselves outside major hubs but still... You would not have to use it if you dont want? If you have anything to say about this, just say so.

phreatophile

I love both of these ideas.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Just great ideas.
Put as a pack the sets is very handful also because the guild stores move in the work its hard to keep tract of some and posting what you need can be helpful.

Gidorick

I have absolutely no critical input. These would do nothing but make things better. Well done sir!

Tapio75

And the buy orders for one, would clean up that guildstore a bit since people wont need to sell some materials as stacks of 4 or 12 or 25 as they do now. instead they can sell straight to someone who wants them.

Iago

/feedback these in game I have been asking for the packaging Idea since last June it would be a good change

Tapio75

Iago wrote: »

/feedback these in game I have been asking for the packaging Idea since last June it would be a good change

I have indeed done this, usually i do when i post something like this in here

BlueIllyrian

Both options should be added to the crown store.

AlnilamE

I only have one question about the buy orders (actually, I have one question about each).

1. If someone wants only some of the items in the package rather than all, would there be a way to do that? For example, you are selling a package with 5 pieces of Thunderous Mail, but I already have 2 pieces and really only need 3. Is there a way for me to get the 3 I need or is my only option to not buy your package and hope someone else has individual pieces?

2. When you place a buy order, is the money you are willing to pay taken out of your purse and put on "hold"? Kind of like the bids for guild traders get taken out of the guild bank until the bid is won or lost? If not, how do people get paid?

AshySamurai

Sorry for ruining your dreams, but what the point of packages? I read OP, but really why not simply list items. You can list 30 lots per guild. IMO it's more than enough. With existing addons searching items in guild store is far too easy. It's interesting concept, but I don't think it will be so popular. One container have few items from set, another container have the same two pieces and one different. You will need to search this different piece or pay for items you don't want to.

About buy orders (aka reverse auction house). I don't there is something that wasn't discussed about it. I remember this idea on forum since September, 2014. Buy orders have pros and cons. This concept need a lot of polish. Not so long ago was a topic about reverse auction house. It's very similar idea for me. I don't say it's bad, but it shouldn't be implemented as is.

Asha_Veor

Packages ... have a lot of pro's and con's ... the system would need to be ... well defined ... however with the market I don't think there will be that big of an issue with some of the objections that others have commented on. Its an mmo, you will pretty much always be able to find dropped sets being sold in individual pieces even if packaging is an option. I see the packages more for crafted sets, and being a desirable option for the market.

As for buy orders to answer some of the comments above, The system is rather simple, and yes its like guild traders.

Say I want to have a standing buy order for 100 pieces of raw jute and am willing to pay 1,000g for it.
Step #1
I open the guild store, I submit my order (a special item selection menu would be needed to perfectly define the item requested and the amount), the 1,000g is taken out of my purse + a fee (just like listing an item there would be a fee, taken out of the purse of the person doing said listing) so lets call it 1,100g that gets taken out of my purse.
Step#2
Someone who has a stack of 100 raw jute, sees my offer, and clicks 'accept' on it. A special mail interface opens, requesting they place ONE stack of 100 raw jute, from their inv into the provided box. box accepts only raw jute, and only in a stack of 100.
Step#3 The person who is filling the order clicks confirm, Poof the 100 jute is sent to me, and Poof the 1000g is sent to them.
Step#XX - If the buy order reaches its expiration unfulfilled, or is canceled BEFORE the order is filled. Then the deposited sum, minus the listing fee is returned to the poster. Just like an unsold item would be.

See? Not so complicated ... well Not on OUR end ^_^ I envy not the programers and troubleshooters who would be in charge of implementing such a system.

Though I would definitely thank them for doing such, as I would love to have such a system in the game.

AshySamurai

You all forgetting about one little issue about orders: what if not only one men or mer decide to fulfill it? You're looking for order, see that you can do it. You go and do it. Then you come back and you can't find it anymore. Someone else already completed it. So, you lost your time, your mats and now you have useless for you item. And I'm not talking about the different methods of abusing this system.

C0pp3rhead

1. The package thing has been done on Runescape - and works really well.
2. As you said, the buy orders you do on EVE online.

Both of these have been done before. If ZOS had taken to heart what has & hasn't worked in MMO's in the past, we wouldn't have half the problems that we do now. We have no reliable LFG tool. As for the guild stores, they gave us the ability to dig through 1000's of items, but we don't even have a search tool. We can't even order listings by name.

And you think they're gonna put in advanced features?

AshySamurai

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

1. The package thing has been done on Runescape - and works really well.
2. As you said, the buy orders you do on EVE online.

Both of these have been done before. If ZOS had taken to heart what has & hasn't worked in MMO's in the past, we wouldn't have half the problems that we do now. We have no reliable LFG tool. As for the guild stores, they gave us the ability to dig through 1000's of items, but we don't even have a search tool. We can't even order listings by name.

And you think they're gonna put in advanced features?

Of course you can, you silly boy. Use addons.
AwesomeGuildStore

MrGhosty

AshySamurai wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

1. The package thing has been done on Runescape - and works really well.
2. As you said, the buy orders you do on EVE online.

Both of these have been done before. If ZOS had taken to heart what has & hasn't worked in MMO's in the past, we wouldn't have half the problems that we do now. We have no reliable LFG tool. As for the guild stores, they gave us the ability to dig through 1000's of items, but we don't even have a search tool. We can't even order listings by name.

And you think they're gonna put in advanced features?

Of course you can, you silly boy. Use addons.
AwesomeGuildStore

I think the point here is that the features provided by add ons should have been included in the game already. I'm a big fan of add ons and feel naked without my wykkid addons until they get updated after each update but some features should be included.

I like the idea of packaging, I could see enterprising crafters coming up with clever package types that would be quite popular. It would also make hunting down item sets considerably easier as well.

As for the orders, perhaps there would be some way to work them into the crafting writ system? The reverse order is there but rather than those items you've gone to the trouble of creating simply vanishing into the ether, they would be going to another player. They could make use of the notice boards where you pick up your writs, and the first completed order each day would grant you your daily bonus as usual.

Obviously it would need to be balanced and organized to stop abuse or shortcutting but I would happily support any system added that gives more player agency and creates an actual working economy.

Nestor

Not sure about the packages myself. I never look for a complete set but some thing to complete a set I have started collecting. But , they might benefit someone so I am neutral on those. I did sell an Unassailable set once like this in zone chat. I still have a VR10 set if anyone needs it.

As for Buy Orders, it sure would help in determining just what I want to sell in the stores. Not sure if as a buyer I would be willing to wait for an order to be fulfilled, but in the case of rarer items maybe. Maybe if I was a crafter needing a steady supply of mats it would be nice. But most of my shopping is looking for that one item that I need for whatever reason.

Both of these ideas have limits to the application for me personally, but I think would help the markets out for those who would use them.

AshySamurai

MrGhosty wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

1. The package thing has been done on Runescape - and works really well.
2. As you said, the buy orders you do on EVE online.

Both of these have been done before. If ZOS had taken to heart what has & hasn't worked in MMO's in the past, we wouldn't have half the problems that we do now. We have no reliable LFG tool. As for the guild stores, they gave us the ability to dig through 1000's of items, but we don't even have a search tool. We can't even order listings by name.

And you think they're gonna put in advanced features?

Of course you can, you silly boy. Use addons.
AwesomeGuildStore

I think the point here is that the features provided by add ons should have been included in the game already. I'm a big fan of add ons and feel naked without my wykkid addons until they get updated after each update but some features should be included.

Oh, not addons vs standart UI war again. There are always be a group of people who not like something. Because of it ZOS gave us API and opportunity to write addons.

Also, I hope you're aware about tons of spam requests, right? Because you can't do anything about it. Only to hope that people will be civil and won't do it so much, but I'm not sure about it. We'll see a lot of trolls in March. So, we will see a lot of troll orders.

C0pp3rhead

AshySamurai wrote: »

Of course you can, you silly boy. Use addons.
AwesomeGuildStore

Needed that. Thanks for the link. Hopefully it's compatible with Deome's DataDaedra.

MrGhosty wrote: »

I think the point here is that the features provided by add ons should have been included in the game already. I'm a big fan of add ons and feel naked without my wykkid addons until they get updated after each update but some features should be included.

Yes, that was my point. The LFG tool has had limited functionality for months. Asking them to fix and implement features seems to have no effect. How long have we been asking for combat dummys/targets? Still haven't gotten them, even though they would be incredibly easy to implement. Bugs that they've been aware of for months, i.e. Nightblade Cloak, global cooldown on Templar spear charge, remain unfixed. I know that coding is hard, but that's why I'm paying a professional company to do it. Between the box cost and the subscriptions, I've shelled out over $200 for this game. Don't I deserve a working product?

And I love Wykkyd's Suite. That, along with FTC is one of my must haves, especially because my skill setups are so different between trials, dungeons, and PvP.

AshySamurai

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Of course you can, you silly boy. Use addons.
AwesomeGuildStore

Needed that. Thanks for the link. Hopefully it's compatible with Deome's DataDaedra.

Yep, it's fully compatible with Data Daedra. Don't worry about it.

AlnilamE

AwesomeGuildStore makes guild stores 1000% better.

I used the standard UI on PTS and I can see why so many people don't like using them.

While I agree that not every addon is for everyone, some quality of life tools, like a better search function in guild stores and something like AdvancedFilters for inventory would really make things more user friendly.

starkerealm

AshySamurai wrote: »

You all forgetting about one little issue about orders: what if not only one men or mer decide to fulfill it? You're looking for order, see that you can do it. You go and do it. Then you come back and you can't find it anymore. Someone else already completed it. So, you lost your time, your mats and now you have useless for you item. And I'm not talking about the different methods of abusing this system.

For finished crafted goods, I agree. If this is limited to raw materials, then it would be less of an issue. If we're talking about asking for fully custom configured sets, then, yeah, no, this just wouldn't work, there's too many potential points for abuse.

derpsticks

Posted this back in june: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/108062/an-alternative-option-to-an-ah

While I like the idea I've actually done some thinking and have come up with better ideas than what I wrote about in that post. Too much to type out right now so I wont. Give the post a read, it basically describes the buy order based ah.

derpsticks

To prevent abuse when dealing with crafting orders all there needs to be is a contract system.

For instance, a player places an order for a certain crafted piece of armor.

A crafter browses the orders that were placed via an order board and determines which they are capable of completing.

The crafter selects the players order and accepts a contract to complete it.

By entering the contract the order is removed from the board so other crafters cant see it. The crafter is then obligated to take responsibility of the order.

The crafter crafts the items, returns to the board, deposites the items which once checked that they match the order the players deposited payment is transferred to the crafter.

The player picks up the item from the board or may receive it via mail.

If the crafter does not fulfill the contract within a given timeframe, say an hour, the order is returned to the board as it was originally and the crafter is charged a large fine for breaking their contract.

Iago

derpsticks wrote: »

To prevent abuse when dealing with crafting orders all there needs to be is a contract system.

For instance, a player places an order for a certain crafted piece of armor.

A crafter browses the orders that were placed via an order board and determines which they are capable of completing.

The crafter selects the players order and accepts a contract to complete it.

By entering the contract the order is removed from the board so other crafters cant see it. The crafter is then obligated to take responsibility of the order.

The crafter crafts the items, returns to the board, deposites the items which once checked that they match the order the players deposited payment is transferred to the crafter.

The player picks up the item from the board or may receive it via mail.

If the crafter does not fulfill the contract within a given timeframe, say an hour, the order is returned to the board as it was originally and the crafter is charged a large fine for breaking their contract.

That's great but where do Price negotiations come in? People seldom want to pay what crafted gear is worth. ie... Yesterday somone wanted me to make them a legendary Dwemer Robe for 1k, then they got masd when I told them what I wanted for the robe, mind you all I was asking was enough to replace all the upgrade mats and 2k profit.

Nazon_Katts

Buy orders for bulk articles like resources would do wonders, but they're not really that great for single items like gear, thanks to the many customization options and the upfront investment for high quality gear. Work orders that can be given out like contracts and are bound to one fulfilling crafter would make more sense in that case.

derpsticks

The negotiations are setup by placing the order. If the price is wrong then no crafter would reasonably accept the order contract. Basically the buyer payes for the order up front by attaching their payment to the order. If no one accepts they get their money back and have to place the order again with a more attractive offer.

In this system the crafters negotiate by simply ignoring an undesirable order and the buyers negotiate by offering a sum of gold worth making crafters compete against each other for the order.

Iago

derpsticks wrote: »

The negotiations are setup by placing the order. If the price is wrong then no crafter would reasonably accept the order contract. Basically the buyer payes for the order up front by attaching their payment to the order. If no one accepts they get their money back and have to place the order again with a more attractive offer.

In this system the crafters negotiate by simply ignoring an undesirable order and the buyers negotiate by offering a sum of gold worth making crafters compete against each other for the order.

This is a great idea and would save a lot of headaches

radiostar

I wonder if Z could let us bind set items together at the workshops? Then sell it all as a package?

Or when placing items for sale at the GStore, let the seller mark their slots as bound (selling say 5 items as a group) so the whole group is purchased when a buyer clicks purchase. I don't know if Z will allow placing more than 30 items to sale at one time, which is what will happen using the OP's package idea. But using the bound slots way, you can post either separates or sets using just your 30 allotted slots.

Also since the set big bonus is 5 items, the package should probably be limited to 5 items.

BigM

Sort of like the package but the buy order I don't really like. But saying that what really makes me laugh here is people want to see new things in MMO's and what I think ZoS has done with the AH is new or should I say different. Yet you people keep posting about EvE or whatever game does this and it works good. Please let us keep this system they have in place and stop asking to put in things from other games. Don't mistake it I do believe there are things they should add for the AH and Guilds but I hope they try something new in those areas.

Tapio75

As someone asked.. If ou only want certain pieces of equipment, you could always contact the seller and ask if he or she is willing to make separate items and sell them to you.. Or simply put a buy order for things you wanted and define a price which is enough to get you items but not too high..

Still, i think many crafters would also sell those individual items, maybe even more.. Who knows but i do not believe at all that individual items from sets would generally go away, I for one would sell some packages and more individual as people tend to get partial sets when not learned all needed traits for craft or all items simply wont drop.

As for buy orders.. Usually there be many of these.. So in general, you should be able to sell your stuff to one or another.. Most likely serious crafters have lots of buy orders for large amount of materials they can then use to craft items for sale..

C0pp3rhead

Iago wrote: »

derpsticks wrote: »

The negotiations are setup by placing the order. If the price is wrong then no crafter would reasonably accept the order contract. Basically the buyer payes for the order up front by attaching their payment to the order. If no one accepts they get their money back and have to place the order again with a more attractive offer.

In this system the crafters negotiate by simply ignoring an undesirable order and the buyers negotiate by offering a sum of gold worth making crafters compete against each other for the order.

This is a great idea and would save a lot of headaches

I know exactly what you mean - someone wanted me to make them a bunch of purple glyphs for 100g each the other day.