Zenimax what is the point of dungeons?

Fellwitch

Can someone please elucidate me on what exactly the purpose of dungeons are (for lower levels that is)?

1) Public Dungeons: There is a skyshard. And a skill point. Then I leave, because the mobs give almost 0 xp. All the beautiful scenery inside is a waste of time. What is the point?

2) Group Dungeons: What is the point? A little bit of xp at the end but not better than what I would make questing. Mob xp still sucks. Why do it?

How does this mesh with the Elder Scrolls at all? One of the series greatest features is dungeon delving. Why is it killed?

I understand some people exploited a boss in the beginning of the game, but that was fixed. Why are those of us who like to hang out in dungeons penalized for doing this aspect of the game?

Who has ever heard of a fantasy MMO that does NOT want its players in dungeons!?!

Ganacampo

Uhm.. the point is... to have fun?

Because it is a game, and games are for fun, you know?

Egonieser

Possible loot and achievements? The purpose of any dungeon in a MMO. Not exp, but loot, rewards for killing the boss and getting the achievement for clearing the dungeon i suppose.
I clear them out systematically just so the dungeon is marked as clear otherwise the map exploration achievement will not prorgess.

Locke_ESO

Group Dungeons also give a skill point quest, a better chance at dropping set gear, Undaunted skill line points for completion and eventually are used for Undaunted pledges.


Overall though right now I agree with the premise that they could do more for people who want to XP by doing dungeons or more traditional XP grinding etc. The developers seem to want to force people into questing and it's clear it just doesn't appeal to some people. Personally I enjoyed the quests the first time around and did almost 100% completion but when I make an alt and I am forced to retread already completed content it's just boring especially considering the "Cadwell's Gold/Silver" design choice. I'd rather see more legit grind type content and less exploit grind content.

Wreuntzylla

The dungeons were nerfed due to botting. Higher equipment degradation, lower experience and poor drops from bosses.

They were talking about reverting the changes at one point.

Fellwitch

The reason why this is so frustrating is I am now leveling up a second character and honestly I do not want to go through all the same quests again.

Once is enough.

I'm still subscribed, still paying for the game; this whole premise of artificially making people have to level a certain way (i.e. quests) in order to draw out subscriptions (and soon to be xp potions) is ridiculous.

At least have enough confidence in your game that you can deal with people being at max level instead of forcing us to slog our way through the same recycled content over and over.

Rosveen

Lower levels: XP and skill points.
Vet ranks: Undaunted pledges and unique gear.
All levels: fun.

jpatek0501ub17_ESO

I want to do Vet dungeons and Trials but...there is nothing I truly want or need from them. My Templar is Vr14 I feel like there is nothing more to gain, been leveling alts skipping dungeons.

Between wife and I we can craft what ever we need, with our stock pile of mats. Gold was useless unless Training horse, repairing, or buying Nirn Traits.

Just a simple working Group finder with a small bonus would get me to run some once in awhile.

SanderBuraas

When I clear dungeons, it is merely for the skyshard. I clear the boss just so I have done it.

I wish there was actual great loot, special items, fun activities unique to each dungeon and more inside the different dungeons. Players should want to enter the dungeons, and be properly rewarded for when they clear it.

thelordoffelines

What's the point of making this game?

danno8

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

The dungeons were nerfed due to botting. Higher equipment degradation, lower experience and poor drops from bosses.

They were talking about reverting the changes at one point.

This here.

When the game released the bots would just stand in front of the boss, killing them over and over.

What they should have done was make loot from named bosses individualized so that when a named boss is killed, they no longer drop loot for you for 24 hours (or something).

Instead they nerfed the quality of the loot so that they drop essentially nothing you can't get faster and easier from just grinding.

NewBlacksmurf

I see your point of view. I don't totally agree but I side with your question to ZOS. What's is the point of the group dungeons?

After doing the quest once, honestly there is no point.

Personally I would like for all regular and all vet dungeons to change exp rate drastically. I'd like the regular dungeons to double in exp per mob and triple for boss kills.

For vet dungeons, the exp should be 5 times what it is now. My idea here is that dungeons (group) should be a source of the best exp for VR1- VR14 as in these should be a source of grind exp.

Usually dungeons are the source of grinding exp in MMORPG games but ZOS has a different idea. Not sure it's working out well for the gamers tho

awkwarrd

Dungeon EXP was gutted back in the day because of the exploiters abusing dungeon XP to get to max level fast.

Instead of fixing it, they just nuked the EXP intot he ground and never bothered to re-visit it.

Seems the normal route of this games development.

Elloa

I don't know ... I'm having lots of fun in Dungeons, its one of my favourite aspect of the game!

Jaxsun

awkwarrd wrote: »

Dungeon EXP was gutted back in the day because of the exploiters abusing dungeon XP to get to max level fast.

Instead of fixing it, they just nuked the EXP intot he ground and never bothered to re-visit it.

Seems the normal route of this games development.

Yep, they identify a problem and instead of fixing the problem they make it so it's not worth playing at all.

What's that? oh, your swimming pool has a leak in it, well just empty the rest of the water out, problem solved....

LIQUID741

Would like to run them. Just came back and I find it incredibly difficult to find a group. The group Finder is a joke...its 2015, why is this difficult to implement? Guess I'm just waiting till console release when more peeps will either scream for a decent group finder tool or plenty of peeps will want to run the dungeons.

TheBull

Like Cyrodiil, they need to give much more XP.

Funkopotamus

Fellwitch wrote: »

The reason why this is so frustrating is I am now leveling up a second character and honestly I do not want to go through all the same quests again.

Once is enough.

I'm still subscribed, still paying for the game; this whole premise of artificially making people have to level a certain way (i.e. quests) in order to draw out subscriptions (and soon to be xp potions) is ridiculous.

At least have enough confidence in your game that you can deal with people being at max level instead of forcing us to slog our way through the same recycled content over and over.

Soooo... You are mad because you cannot grow mold in a dungeon and instagibb mobs for a few hours and max a second character?
Exactly maybe hold until they add instant max level potions in the crown store?

Garwulf

Don't worry the Champion System will fix all the games problems....

Garwulf

OK so my comment above was sarcastic.
So what is the reason for the dungeons?
In the beginning it was all about expectation. The expectation of the unknown. The expectation of danger. the expectation of treasure .
And for a month or two many of these expectations were met.
The dungeons where dangerous, the treasure was worth while. But as time went on the Dungeons became easier and easier and the drops less and less to the point where the dungeons are essentially pointless.
A few however are now designated official grinding spots. Here you can grind your way to undaunted passives and drops . The equivalent to banging your head on against a brick wall. But remember it is Funnnn.... because ZoS tells you it is Funnnnnnnnnnnnnn......

Faulgor

For me it comes down to the whole itemization and dropped loot. It's just not good. Outside of Trials and Veteran Dungeons (where you can get the Ebon Armory, Savior's Hide and Worm Cult sets), I can only think of two instances where you kill specific enemies because of their loot: Animal hides for medium armor crafting, and Dwemer automatons for the trait stones. Everything else is just a blur, trash best sold to NPCs.

So, when you don't have to go there for loot, and exp is better elsewhere, it's dead as repeatable content. Simple. That's why they added the Undaunted dailies so we at least rerun group dungeons for loot. Delves and public dungeons should get a similar treatment to make them more appealing. I mean, all those great expanded delves they added since launch, and you run through just once and that's it. Seems like a waste.

Garwulf

Faulgor wrote: »

For me it comes down to the whole itemization and dropped loot. It's just not good. Outside of Trials and Veteran Dungeons (where you can get the Ebon Armory, Savior's Hide and Worm Cult sets), I can only think of two instances where you kill specific enemies because of their loot: Animal hides for medium armor crafting, and Dwemer automatons for the trait stones. Everything else is just a blur, trash best sold to NPCs.

So, when you don't have to go there for loot, and exp is better elsewhere, it's dead as repeatable content. Simple. That's why they added the Undaunted dailies so we at least rerun group dungeons for loot. Delves and public dungeons should get a similar treatment to make them more appealing. I mean, all those great expanded delves they added since launch, and you run through just once and that's it. Seems like a waste.

Have you played from the beginning? I got lots of interesting Armour and other items when the game began , but doing the same dungeons recently the drops were pathetic and a part for the sky shard not worth doing. Just as the dungeons are less dangerous, the drops are less interesting.

Seraphyel

Fellwitch wrote: »

Can someone please elucidate me on what exactly the purpose of dungeons are (for lower levels that is)?

1) Public Dungeons: There is a skyshard. And a skill point. Then I leave, because the mobs give almost 0 xp. All the beautiful scenery inside is a waste of time. What is the point?

2) Group Dungeons: What is the point? A little bit of xp at the end but not better than what I would make questing. Mob xp still sucks. Why do it?

Who has ever heard of a fantasy MMO that does NOT want its players in dungeons!?!

1) Zenimax did a copy & paste job with their public dungeons. They all look the same, they all have the same structure, they all work the same - if you do it once, twice, maybe ten times it's fun, but it gets boring really quickly because... you already saw them. Copy and paste never works to make good content and Zenimax did this with EVERY dungeon out there.

2) Mhm. Good question. I don't know. To have them?

Hadria

they're for fun

MornaBaine

Hadria wrote: »

they're for fun

And the fun will be added in which update?

Ganacampo

Seraphyel wrote: »

1) Zenimax did a copy & paste job with their public dungeons. They all look the same, they all have the same structure, they all work the same - if you do it once, twice, maybe ten times it's fun, but it gets boring really quickly because... you already saw them. Copy and paste never works to make good content and Zenimax did this with EVERY dungeon out there.

What?

Are you sure you know what public dungeons are?
There is only one of them in each zone and each is unique.

Many normal dungeons on the other hand are/ were copied and pasted, but that was changed in one of the updated so they are more unique now.

Digiman

Public dungeons are annoying, mainly due to the fact of empty zone and find players who would want to join in. Honestly their should be an option in LFG tool to find people for that and world boss camps.

I don't like sitting in a zone unable to a damn thing while finding a group of players for it.

But its progress and enjoyable when you do get a group together. Empty zones = empty fun.

prototypefb

when dungeons will scale off your level, i'd like to see them being repeatable - bosses should drop blue set items - guaranteed random set item from the game, this way there will be some more life in dungeons.
chance to drop any set item (scaled to your level) will still give you about 0.1% chance to get exact item you are looking for.
keep the current timer of drops to stop farming 1 dungeon repeatedly.

eliisra

Public Dungeons offers loads of stuff. There's 1 skyshard, 2-3 quests and a vanity item. There's also multiple achievements in there, including the group challenge that awards you a skill point.

My only grudge with Public Dungeons is boss spawn timers, making it unreasonably hard to complete certain achievements for amazing dyes

But normal dungeons could definitely give more exp for players below level cap. Maybe add some interesting loot to? I only do them once for quest, achievement and skill-point really.

I guess you might return at some point if you do silver key for Undaunted, that's one reason to do them. But than again, many players(myself included), have no problems maxing out Undaunted and skip silver entirely, since reward sucks.

Lord_Kreegan

This game evoled from a sub-genre of role-playing known as "Dungeons & Dragons". Thus we have dungeons of some sort in every one of these MMOs.

That ZOS ran out of creativity when they implemented their cookie-cutter dungeons (delves) in ESO shouldn't be too much of a surprise; there are a lot of them. But take into account that there are other dungeons that are part of quest chains that are not of the cookie-cutter variety.

We should feel lucky that it was not "Living Rooms & Dragons" or -- much worse -- "Bathrooms & Dragons". Only the gods know what sort of non-creative mess that would have been.

Fellwitch

I would like to say that we have had some very good posts by people in here and it has been quite constructive. I'd like to see if there are any initiatives that focus on public & group dungeons to make them more worthwhile to do when not the focus of an Undaunted daily.

I like the analogy someone wrote above about the swimming pool.

"Your swimming pool has a leak in it? No problem, sir!"
/pool emptied
/no one in pool anymore