Crown Store = Horse Armor All over Again, Why not Add a Story?

Jando · February 2015

We all laugh at how pathetic the original DLC for Oblivion was....you know....the Horse Armor.

Horse%20armour%20header--article_image.jpg

Are we just falling for it all over again? Is a wedding dress, or a jester's outfit, or even a mount that much different from "horse armor" ?

What if, instead of just selling these items outright in the Crown Store, they made them quest rewards and delivered actual content?

One of the problems with the game, in general, is a lack of interesting rewards for quests. Yet, it's evident that there are tons of things that people think would be cool to buy in the Crown Store. So why not create stories around these items and offer them as rewards? Wouldn't that be so much better?

Spending 2 bucks for a half hour quest that rewards a wedding dress because you "saved the wedding" is so much more engaging than just opening the Collections Tab and immediately finding it unlocked.

I know, i know...people are going to say "but it takes time and effort to create those quests." Well...that's what game companies do, they create games. And that's why we pay extra for premium content.

Xjcon · February 2015

How many remember playing those games that had very little graphic detail that took a long time to complete simply because there was lots of things to do before you finish it? Now days you get better looking games with much less to do in them. So eso is getting a crown store with a bunch of those cool things to look at but not much more to do in the game. This to me is boring.

LtCrunch · February 2015

EDIT: Misinformation

Jando · February 2015

Brandalf wrote: »

Horse armor was criticised/ a laughing stock because of it's initial price point($15 or $20). I don't think it's quite comparable.

Umm...I don't think it was that expensive...not even close.

Exstazik · February 2015

Horse armour for Master Angler

Locke_ESO · February 2015

As you already identified it's a money vs effort vs risk thing. They can make a wedding dress in a day and sell it a thousand times on novelty value for a good profit or they can make an engaging quest over a week and maybe break even. Except what if the quest actually isn't a good one and people who would have brought the dress out of novelty dont buy it? Not to mention that development time is a finite resource that they can invest elsewhere if there is no quest attached.

Jando · February 2015

Brandalf wrote: »

Horse armor was criticised/ a laughing stock because of it's initial price point($15 or $20). I don't think it's quite comparable.

I don't know who you people are that are agreeing with this guy, but I can confirm that:

"On April 3rd, 2006, Bethesda Game Studios released the first DLC for the game The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, charging $2.50 for access to an item called “Horse Armor.”[4] Once installed, the player could visit an Orc non-player character (NPC) and receive a set of armor to be placed on a horse (shown below). While the first set was free, each subsequent horse armor purchase would cost the player 500 gold."

@brandalf it would be nice if you got your information straight before you posted...thanks.

Jando · February 2015

jp_antillb16_ESO wrote: »

As you already identified it's a money vs effort vs risk thing. They can make a wedding dress in a day and sell it a thousand times on novelty value for a good profit or they can make an engaging quest over a week and maybe break even. Except what if the quest actually isn't a good one and people who would have brought the dress out of novelty dont buy it? Not to mention that development time is a finite resource that they can invest elsewhere if there is no quest attached.

So you think people would buy the dress standalone, but wouldn't buy it because it had a "bad" quest? I disagree. I think if you want a dress, you'll do the quest. I think people that don't even want the dress will pay for a good quest.

I agree that development time is a finite resource (so is our money). But instead of creating engaging quests, they are simply selling novelty items.

LtCrunch · February 2015

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Horse armor was criticised/ a laughing stock because of it's initial price point($15 or $20). I don't think it's quite comparable.

I don't know who you people are that are agreeing with this guy, but I can confirm that:

"On April 3rd, 2006, Bethesda Game Studios released the first DLC for the game The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, charging $2.50 for access to an item called “Horse Armor.”[4] Once installed, the player could visit an Orc non-player character (NPC) and receive a set of armor to be placed on a horse (shown below). While the first set was free, each subsequent horse armor purchase would cost the player 500 gold."

@brandalf it would be nice if you got your information straight before you posted...thanks.

I stand corrected, I've edited my initial post. That being said I still don't think it's quite comparable. This is an MMO and they need to find ways to make revenue post launch to support further development and server costs; Oblivion didn't. Also let's not forget the horse armor DLC actually ended up selling relatively well for Bethesda despite the controversy surrounding it.

I like your idea from a player perspective, but from a business perspective it's stupid and that's the perspective Bethesda and ZOS will be looking at it from. Who knows, we might see more unique/interesting quest rewards with future DLC packs. Don't expect ZOS to remove a potential source of additional revenue to do it though.

Dreamo84 · February 2015

Well, for one, I don't want them to have to start basing all their content on what's in the cash shop.

SoonerMagicEE · February 2015

Clarification on the horse armor DLC issue:

People were upset not because of the actual price of the horse armor DLC, but because they had to pay ANY price for such a small/menial DLC. It was something that could have easily been created by the modding community (except Bethesda's TOS prevented them from doing so since it would conflict/compete with their for-cost-DLC).

Bethesda later admitted charging money for it was a mistake and that they should have offered the horse armor DLC for free. Later DLC's actually contained content (Knights of the Nine and The Shivering Isles). Both were excellent and well worth the cost, IMO.

RedTalon · February 2015

Horse armor, horse story they got armor now buy buy!

That works?

Gidorick · February 2015

I completely agree... actually I agree so much, I mentioned a similar thing myself: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149494/in-game-crown-store-integration-concept

Gidorick · February 2015

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

Spending 2 bucks for a half hour quest that rewards a wedding dress because you "saved the wedding" is so much more engaging than just opening the Collections Tab and immediately finding it unlocked.

The problem here is that the dress, as it stands right now is 400C, which we assume is about 4 bucks. As others have said, it's about return on investment. Would you be willing to pay 10 bucks for that 1/2 hour quest? After all they need to write it, create the scenario, pay the voice actors, test it, fix it, test it more, then implement it. Afterwards, deal with the customer service issues and unforeseen bugs.

And how many players would pay $10 for the quest?

I LOVE the idea, but I think it should be a little of both. Some things should be straight Crown Store, some should include a quest. Like the Lion Guard armor sets. Make it so we have to complete the Lion Guard quest-lines before we can buy the Lion Guard armor costumes.

The Wedding Dress... the Jester... straight Crown Store.

Of course, I would LOVE it if we had a tailor in ESO where we could go to "try on" outfits before we buy them. I hate the crown store interface. ugh.

Dekkameron · February 2015

I would actually buy cosmetic horse armour if they put it in the crown store

Gidorick · February 2015

Dekkameron wrote: »

I would actually buy cosmetic horse armour if they put it in the crown store

So would I.

kongkim · February 2015

Think the horse armors in Oblivion was fine

Adhal · February 2015

Difference is, oblivion didn't require servers that cost millions to maintain. Crown store provides a means to generate income to support the continuation of the game.

Keep in mind, while horse armor was controversial then, it's the standard now. Stuff like that generates tons of income because guess what, people WILL pay.

Knootewoot · February 2015

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

We all laugh at how pathetic the original DLC for Oblivion was....you know....the Horse Armor.

Are we just falling for it all over again? Is a wedding dress, or a jester's outfit, or even a mount that much different from "horse armor" ?

What if, instead of just selling these items outright in the Crown Store, they made them quest rewards and delivered actual content?

One of the problems with the game, in general, is a lack of interesting rewards for quests. Yet, it's evident that there are tons of things that people think would be cool to buy in the Crown Store. So why not create stories around these items and offer them as rewards? Wouldn't that be so much better?

Spending 2 bucks for a half hour quest that rewards a wedding dress because you "saved the wedding" is so much more engaging than just opening the Collections Tab and immediately finding it unlocked.

I know, i know...people are going to say "but it takes time and effort to create those quests." Well...that's what game companies do, they create games. And that's why we pay extra for premium content.

I remember the Morrowind days. DLC (plugins back then) where free. We got fluff items, like a helmet, the adamantium armor and "area of effect arrows", but also questline like "Siege of Firemoth" and the master index.

Only real expansions like "Tribunal" and "bloodmoon" had to be paid for.

Sigh, those where the days.

MrGhosty · February 2015

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

We all laugh at how pathetic the original DLC for Oblivion was....you know....the Horse Armor.

Are we just falling for it all over again? Is a wedding dress, or a jester's outfit, or even a mount that much different from "horse armor" ?

What if, instead of just selling these items outright in the Crown Store, they made them quest rewards and delivered actual content?

One of the problems with the game, in general, is a lack of interesting rewards for quests. Yet, it's evident that there are tons of things that people think would be cool to buy in the Crown Store. So why not create stories around these items and offer them as rewards? Wouldn't that be so much better?

Spending 2 bucks for a half hour quest that rewards a wedding dress because you "saved the wedding" is so much more engaging than just opening the Collections Tab and immediately finding it unlocked.

I know, i know...people are going to say "but it takes time and effort to create those quests." Well...that's what game companies do, they create games. And that's why we pay extra for premium content.

The issue with the horse armor wasn't that it was just a cosmetic item, if I remember correctly it was more so in regard to the fact that this practice was relatively new (bethesda was one of the early adopters of the practice and it gained notoriety) so price vs what you actually got was still being worked out. They also released homes DLC where each unique home had a quest related to it before you were able to move in.

There isn't anything wrong with cosmetic items as a way to offset costs. It provides those who want more customization some value while do literally nothing to those who choose not to buy. I'm eager for new zones and content to play as well but if simply selling cosmetics without a random quest thrown in brings in the finances to keep developing zones full of quests I'm happy to see that happen. The practice of selling content or "quest dlc" alongside cosmetic has been the standard for years and cosmetics arriving first is fairly typical and obviously seems to work.

LIQUID741 · February 2015

I would like to see this, but sadly feel that developers are there just to throw out as little content with minimal effort to make the most money. Now for the most part there is a lot of content, but along the way $$$ seems to take over the creative thinking process.

vrine · February 2015

A lot of people prefer instant satisfaction, that's just how the world rolls.

Garwulf · February 2015

vrine wrote: »

A lot of people prefer instant satisfaction, that's just how the world rolls.

Satisfaction or Gratification? The game has since it's inception been dumbed down to meet the expectation of the 'Sesame Street' Generation... They come and go leaving those that have expectation of real content and genuine game play dismayed and disillusioned. What could have been, has become a never was.
Whilst posting in another thread I realised the game was much more fun when it was first released. More dangerous. The drops better. Grinding spots when you did not feel like questing. Things to do and things to see. The game today is a sorry poor cousin. Less dangerous. No reason to delve into a dungeon except for the sky shard and the boss achievement.

Sure after we got to level 50 and had the whole Molag Bal experience the game seemed disappointing. But that was because it was , to most of us, fun getting to that point, and Cadwell's Silver and Gold was the real disappointment. The VR grind had begun and people left in droves. I am at least thankful I got to play the game when it was fun. The Console players must be a boring lot if they are to be happy with the end result.

Jando · February 2015

For all of you people who think it's "too expensive" to create a decent half-hour quest for items like the wedding dress:

So, the dress is selling for 400 Crowns, which for all intents and purposes will likely be at least $4.00. Let's assume they sell 100,000 of them. That's $400,000 of revenue.

Do you really think it costs anything close to $400,000 for a fully staffed game studio to produce a half-hour quest in a preexisting game?

Smaxx · February 2015

Voice acting can get really expensive pretty fast. Some actors don't even stand up to go to the studio for less than a four digit number, even if they'd just need like 5 or 10 minutes to get their stuff done.

Also remember that you don't just create your content instantly, there'd be at least a small team of - I don't know - 5-10 people working on that quest for at least one or two weeks, possibly 3-4.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

They have tools to do stuff like add quests. Its not like they have to recode the entire game every time they make a new quest. A quest like this would take one person about 15 minutes to make.

Jando · February 2015

Smaxx wrote: »

Voice acting can get really expensive pretty fast. Some actors don't even stand up to go to the studio for less than a four digit number, even if they'd just need like 5 or 10 minutes to get their stuff done.

Also remember that you don't just create your content instantly, there'd be at least a small team of - I don't know - 5-10 people working on that quest for at least one or two weeks, possibly 3-4.

I think you might be overestimating a bit. Even so, it's not close to 400k. Plus, these things aren't done in isolation, so these teams would be working on multiple quests at the same time.

All that being said, I could easily see ZoS re-purposing existing side quest content from future DLC packs to justify the 400 crown price with zero impact on production costs.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

Seriously. To add a npc to existing landscape it only takes a few minutes and one person. I dont know why youd need multiple people much less multiple teams to do it.

Now if you are talking an entire region with landscape, storylines and dungeons etc to make now that would take teams and time.

Jando · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They have tools to do stuff like add quests. Its not like they have to recode the entire game every time they make a new quest. A quest like this would take one person about 15 minutes to make.

I think that might be the other extreme

I think the approximate production costs for an appropriate quest for something like this should be in the 30-100k range.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They have tools to do stuff like add quests. Its not like they have to recode the entire game every time they make a new quest. A quest like this would take one person about 15 minutes to make.

I think that might be the other extreme

I think the approximate production costs for an appropriate quest for something like this should be in the 30-100k range.

Why would you think pressing a button would cost 30-100k?

Jando · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They have tools to do stuff like add quests. Its not like they have to recode the entire game every time they make a new quest. A quest like this would take one person about 15 minutes to make.

I think that might be the other extreme

I think the approximate production costs for an appropriate quest for something like this should be in the 30-100k range.

Why would you think pressing a button would cost 30-100k?

Well, i think it really depends on what you have in mind. I think a $4 dlc should bring me at least 30 minutes of content along with the shiny little item.