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Healing Ritual 70% buff, what would actually work now in PvP?

sbanned_530978
sbanned_530978
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Healing Ritual: Increased the heal value from this ability by approximately 70%.

Lingering Ritual + 30% passive vs 2 casts of either Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing.

Lingering Ritual: cost 2529 cast 2s
11937x5 +15518 30% self +2984x6 = 93107

Healing Springs: cost 2348 -780 =1568 x2 casts
1451 x3ticks (2 casts, 4353x2) 8706x6 = 52236

Illustrious Healing cost 2348 x2 casts
1451x4 ticks, 5804x2, 11608x6 = 69648

Lets compare Illustrious the stronger heal which costs 2167 more magicka for 2 casts while healing 23459 less.
Pros: Cast at range, no cast time, more spread out healing
Cons: 8m radius, 4 casts being negated

Lingering Ritual
Pros: 10m radius, Heal through walls/pillars/boxes unseen, Allies under 60% gain 2 ult
Cons: Interruptable, Target self

The change to this skill has imbalanced pve temp vs non temp heals while not improving the skill much for PvP.

I've seen top tier healer use this on live but thats not saying it doesnt need a buff. So my initial thoughts were 70% is too much and breaks pve.

If the idea is to make the skill viable in PvP the quickest fix is to implement the skill similar to heavy attacks, making an uninterrupted morph or base skill. The 2nd easiest is to lower it to a 1s cast.

Any other ideas throw them out under option 3!

Testing numbers below
26807 magicka spell dmg 1570
Buffs; Focused healing 30% healing, Restoration master 5% healing, 7 light armor Evocation 21% cost, Restoring spirits 4% cost, Magicka Mastery 3% cost, Gift of Magnus 10% max magicka, tri stat food 3150 stats, major sorcery 20% sd.
This test did not include; Healing mundus, War horn, 5pc healer, 3 spell dmg enchants, Combat medic 20% healing near a keep (-15 from cyro buff), minor spell dmg buff
With the champion system had these numbers XD
Lingering Ritual
18937 x5 + 24618 + 4734x6 = 147707
Edited by sbanned_530978 on February 14, 2015 10:46AM

Healing Ritual 70% buff, what would actually work now in PvP? 14 votes

uninterruptable morph or base skill (not cc immunity)
35%
Panda244sbanned_530978MilktrayFallenProphetbigereard 5 votes
Lower cast to 1s
42%
ImdrefanHuntlerdrogon1SorisSuruDerra 6 votes
Other
21%
TankqullKagheieliisra 3 votes
  • saintmurray
    saintmurray
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    As a pvp healer I sore this and thought about whether its now viable... IMO its still no good because you can't move about easily while doing it. However 70% is a massive increase. I'll be giving a good try when 1.6 goes live.
    Saintmurray-V14-Bamplar-EP Former Emp Haderus
    Hans Incognito-V1 DK-EP
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  • eliisra
    eliisra
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    Other
    Delete it, give us a new Restoring Light skill, that's my suggestion.
    The entire design of that skill is wrong for PvP, mediocre or situational at best in PvE.

    I know it heals for loads on PTS right now, but that doesn't change how dysfunctional it is. Lack of range, lack of movement, interrupters paradise and than that casting time, making it a waste of magicka.

    The damage people take in PvP is bursty, rarely you can get people in range, than wait 1.8 seconds for a heal. Everyone dies. You would basically need multiple templars in a raid rotating and timing it on a stacked group, so it keeps going of every 0,5 sec or something, for it to be useful.

    Besides I'm not sure a healer will be able to stand in the epicentre of some AoE bomb war zone and perform a ritual in 1.6. Not with he massive nerf to light armour, heal passives and Immovable. Healing Springs is better. It's GT giving you control over who receives, great range, instant, dirt cheap and stacks. I can fire of multiple Healing Springs in 1.8 sec, but only one Ritual.
  • ThatHappyCat
    ThatHappyCat
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    Given that multiple Templars alternating Breath of Life and Spell Symmetry is still much higher HPS (on demand) over a much larger area and can be sustained indefinitely, no; Healing Ritual still isn't worth it.

    And if you PUG or solo, Healing Springs is likely still better due to range, lack of a cast time, lack of a mobility handicap, being a stackable HoT (Healing Ritual does absolutely nothing for anyone who gets focused after it procs, and 2s is time aplenty to focus someone down) and the fact that Negate Magic no longer blocks it.

    Even if Healing Ritual heals all affected allies to full, it still probably wouldn't be worth using for the above reasons. That said, theorycrafting is one thing and practice is another, so who knows.
    Edited by ThatHappyCat on February 20, 2015 6:15AM
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    The skill is still pretty useless. As my feedback on the topic said, they need to delete the skill and replace it. There is nothing that can be done to make it work well in PVE or PVP. Particularly in 1.6. There is so much huge burst damage in 1.6, that your whole group is going to die while you are channeling. You need heals on demand not 2 seconds later.
    Edited by timidobserver on February 20, 2015 6:37AM
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  • Jando
    Jando
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    So how about some suggestions.....What would you replace it with?

    Maybe a stamina based heal?
    Dear ZoS - Sell us great content at a reasonable price. Stop the Grind!!
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    No. It has too short radius, will be interrupted by intelligent opponents, limits your mobility, and takes too much time to heal.


  • Imdrefan
    Imdrefan
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    Lower cast to 1s
    With the changes to immovable this will be really hard to make use of against good PvP'ers.

    Has anyone used ritual of rebirth? Is the shorter cast time that noticeable? I've always used lingering ritual before it got its nerf early on when it was all you needed to cast in dungeons. You would never run oom and could spam it for days.
    Drefan - VR14 AD Templar
    Decibel
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  • ThatHappyCat
    ThatHappyCat
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    If ZOS is happy about BoL taking the group healing role (even though the base skill is obviously not intended for this), then Healing Ritual as it is has no point no matter how much it's buffed (as either it or BoL will become redundant). With that in mind Healing Ritual should definitely do something different if BoL is not changed (Honour the Dead or the base skill Rushed Ceremony needs changing too).

    That said it's a bit hard to think of a suitable replacement. A HoT? That overlaps with Resto staff skills. Group shield? Kinda copying DKs there (even though DKs for some reason rarely use Obsidian Shield for support). A channelled heal? Well, we have Rite of Passage already. A buff that increases healing done/taken? Focused Healing does that.

    My personal preference is for BoL to not be the ultimate group heal. That way Healing Ritual could be buffed to fill its place and Honour the Dead won't need a drastic change to be even close to competitive.
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Lower cast to 1s
    With the changes to immovable this will be really hard to make use of against good PvP'ers.

    Has anyone used ritual of rebirth? Is the shorter cast time that noticeable? I've always used lingering ritual before it got its nerf early on when it was all you needed to cast in dungeons. You would never run oom and could spam it for days.

    The shorter cast time is barely anything, but any cast time reduction is basically mandatory for PvP imo. I've talked about this change to great length with Luvboard and while its at least something I do not think it is necessarily the right direction for the ability as the risk/benefit it provides compared with healing springs will just never be there in its current form. You either have to make the ability so dang broken that in the chance you get it off its unbelievably good, or you make it a useless ability given the associated risks. Right now the 70% buff is huge and in reality if you do get the heal off its insane... but when you play against good players or as the overall player base learns about this ability, you will rarely get it off. It makes you a huge target, slows you down (see huge target/separates you), puts you at risk of wasting near 4 seconds (cast time + stagger time if interrupted) if you get interrupted, and finally (arguably the most important) is that healing springs coupled with smart healing can dynamic choose who to heal over each tick while this ability is a one time go. What I mean by that last point is as you are spamming healing springs, it can "cover" more people as you will have several going, they can heal different people each tick, etc. This artifically increases its "cap" of coverage when you think about how healing and the dynamics of someones health in battle changes. Ritual does not have this so at most you are healing 6 people while several healing springs can heal way way way more in the same timeframe.

    Thus to balance it they had to make when ritual goes down it heals for a huge amount, but once again extremely risky yet mana efficient. I don't think this is good for the game or templar, it just makes the ability added to the list of templar gimmicky abilities that rely on opponents to make a mistake or be bad for it to be good instead of the player using it being good (such abilities as eclipses, jesus beam, jabs, etc. all come to mind, I could write an entire essay on how abilities that have to rely on your opponent making a mistake is terrible for game design and how abilities should place the power of the ability in the user's hand, not the opponent as good opponents will not fall for this pitfall thus making the ability gimmicky).



    TLDR

    frankly as a healer who goes up against opponents who will learn about this ability and bash, I do not see the benefit outweighing the risk here. I simply do not want to have to rely on incompetence to win me the fight (or in this case keep my group alive), put the power in my hands to turn the fight... not the incompetence of others.
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Lower cast to 1s
    If ZOS is happy about BoL taking the group healing role (even though the base skill is obviously not intended for this), then Healing Ritual as it is has no point no matter how much it's buffed (as either it or BoL will become redundant). With that in mind Healing Ritual should definitely do something different if BoL is not changed (Honour the Dead or the base skill Rushed Ceremony needs changing too).

    That said it's a bit hard to think of a suitable replacement. A HoT? That overlaps with Resto staff skills. Group shield? Kinda copying DKs there (even though DKs for some reason rarely use Obsidian Shield for support). A channelled heal? Well, we have Rite of Passage already. A buff that increases healing done/taken? Focused Healing does that.

    My personal preference is for BoL to not be the ultimate group heal. That way Healing Ritual could be buffed to fill its place and Honour the Dead won't need a drastic change to be even close to competitive.

    I have talked to guildies about this and even said this straight to ZOS during one of our meetings, ritual attempts to fulfill two roles that are already filled by other abilities that do it much better (BOL and healing springs). The only way to make that ability useful is to change it to fulfill another role. As I suggested to guildies I think the best option is to make it an ability that combos with other heals. Some very simple example would be, after using ritual, your next BOL costs half (yes that might sound overpowered, its just a simple example to give you an idea). Something needs to be added to it/tweaked so that it does something else than group heal as we have abilities that are less risky in pvp/do it better. Examples could be every time you use it it removes 1 negative effect from everyone healed by it, it could give some kind of extra buff (2 ultimate currently is kind of pointless given its cast time). In addition, the cast time is simply too long, 2 seconds is an eternity in PvP given the landscape of other abilities. People die in less than two seconds. Coupled with how risky it is to try and not get interrupted, how easily it separates you, etc... It needs a drastic change.
  • snipeopsub17_ESO
    They could buff it 10000%, it won't be practical to use in pvp open combat due to it being a pbae heal and have a 1.7s cast time. The only feasible usage would be in combination with immovable, or when defending keep walls etc.
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