Macro using and cheating seems allowed by ZOS?

Volla · February 2015

It seems like more and more people in EP is using external macro programs that takes over the mouse. I been reporting these ppl constantly for 2 month now and i still see them running around doing the same thing. ( can name them but it not allowed to flame ppl )

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

i've seen Wallhacking -
A sorc was going through the wall and AE spam then Enter again.

Abusing scroll -
They don't even take the demanded keep before taking the Scroll behind the wall's.
Abusing some sort of death resurrect maneuver.

All this should be ended up with a Banned account and banned Creditcard.

Nothing seems to happen.
No one get banned for cheating
No one get warned for abusing unwanted bugs.

/Volla

Haquor · February 2015

Everything you mentioned is as intended.

dharbert · February 2015

Zenimax stated in the October guild summit that using macros is considered cheating.

Volla · February 2015

Haquor wrote: »

Everything you mentioned is as intended.

haha yea :P ..

Volla · February 2015

dharbert wrote: »

Zenimax stated in the October guild summit that macros are considered cheating.

so why are they not removing these players then when they are reported over and over again?

Syntse · February 2015

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

You do understand that even with macro executing 7 actions under one second is just not possible because game doesn't allow such combination. Or what skill can be spammed without any cooldowns or casts?

Volla · February 2015

Syntse wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

You do understand that even with macro executing 7 actions under one second is just not possible because game doesn't allow such combination. Or what skill can be spammed without any cooldowns or casts?

then you probably never cross the players who do this.

i shows like this - Marked - Poff bam splat - dead ( not even a second ) when you look who and what did the dmg.. its a single guy who did 5 attacks under a second.

Because the fact you can Animation cancel you can hit a lot more manually but with macro you can hit a hell lot more.

i should not comment this if i were you, if you don't understand how it works.

Wizzo91 · February 2015

Please record and show video. Claims like this have to be supported with evidence.

Volla · February 2015

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Please record and show video. Claims like this have to be supported with evidence.

this is not CS or FPS.. they can just look at the logg what this guy is doing.

GreyBrow · February 2015

Volla wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

You do understand that even with macro executing 7 actions under one second is just not possible because game doesn't allow such combination. Or what skill can be spammed without any cooldowns or casts?

then you probably never cross the players who do this.

i shows like this - Marked - Poff bam splat - dead ( not even a second ) when you look who and what did the dmg.. its a single guy who did 5 attacks under a second.

Because the fact you can Animation cancel you can hit a lot more manually but with macro you can hit a hell lot more.

i should not comment this if i were you, if you don't understand how it works.

LOL clearly YOU don't understand how it works. Macroing ISNT cheating, because macroing is actually SLOWER than doing it by hand.

Furthermore, even if you DO animation cancel, the time between attacks does not increase dramatically.

In simple terms:

ability + block + ability + block = ability + ability.

If the ability takes 0.75 seconds to perform, canceling the animation with a block will not allow you to do another action until 0.75 seconds have passed.

DeLindsay · February 2015

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

I can almost guarantee you that you aren't being killed with 5 attacks within literally 1.0 seconds. It may SEEM like 1 second to you but it's actually longer, AND with attack weaving you can actually land 2 attacks almost simultaneously, no hacking/cheating/macro programs needed. Without hacking the game code (like speed hacks that gold farmers use to "fly" across the ground at incredible speeds) it's literally impossible to attack faster than once per 1 second, and only NB can do that with the current Haste ability as it brings the ability animation from 1.3 sec to 1.0 sec. Granted you can still land 2 attacks at basically the same time (Ability + LA) but then cannot do the same for another 1 second.

The way it works is this:

Opener: Teleport Strike (could even be Snipe) lands and starts the timer.
Light Attack: Lands almost at the same moment as the Opener.

1 second later

Secondary Ability is used: You are at roughly 1.1 sec at this point from the first hit.
Light Attack #2: Lands directly after Ability 2.

1 second later

Tertiary Ability is used: If you aren't already dead by then, you're roughly at 2.2 sec at this point from the first hit.
Light Attack #3: Lands directly after Ability 3 (JK, you're already dead by now).

This takes very good ping to execute as fast as ~2-2.5 seconds from the time the first hit landed. Also keep in mind that Player stalked you and had lots of time (often tens of minutes) preparing for just the right moment to gank you. I'm not saying People don't cheat, they certainly do. We all saw the multitude of Gold farming bots near launch, and there's no question they were hacking. There's also cheating like using DK chains to pull "enemies" up to keep walls, but they were actually their buddy and did so to steal a scroll.

If you have been reporting the same Players for 2 months then the only plausible answer is they didn't in fact exploit the game. It may seem like they are to you, but all ZoS has to do is check their logs, if they did use an exploit or hack the game code or even use a 3rd party Macro Software ZoS would be able to see it and ban them. How do you think they got rid of 99% of the Gold Sellers, via Players reporting them and then investigating their account.

RedTalon · February 2015

Those are just bad things not exploits or abuse, marcos are maybe bad but intended.

Surragard · February 2015

I wasn't aware that macros are cheating. I was of the impression that they are fairly common. As far as the OP goes, I think what you saw was more likely a hack than a set of macros if it was really that many attacks in a second.

DeLindsay · February 2015

Surragard wrote: »

I wasn't aware that macros are cheating. I was of the impression that they are fairly common. As far as the OP goes, I think what you saw was more likely a hack than a set of macros if it was really that many attacks in a second.

Macros are cheating according to ZoS if you use 3rd party software to execute said Macros (addons and certain mouse features are not considered 3rd party software).

Roechacca · February 2015

I have never seen ZOS enforce any policy against cheating in PVP . If it does indeed even happen . I've heard hundreds of complaints but never seen any one actually punished . I've also seen Devs post that some things are exploits while in game GMs say working as intended . Even if this claim is valid , I wouldn't expect any sort of recourse .

Lettigall · February 2015

Sorry but macros aren't cheating! I was 100% sure it is, before I contacted support some time ago:

Thank you for contacting the Elder Scrolls Online. The use of macro's is perfectly legal. There is nothing wrong with using Macros, if you have a mouse or keyboard that can be set up with macro's and you wish to use them feel free. If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to reply to this email.

Warm Regards, Jon
The Elder Scrolls Support Team.

Emma_Overload · February 2015

1) The claims about executing 7 actions in one second are totally false and not achievable with or without macros. The game has hard-coded limits on how fast attacks can be made, and there is just no way around them. The best DPS I've seen from anybody comes from simply mashing the buttons as fast as you can, LOL.

2) The TOS doesn't say anything about macros. What it does say is that you're not allowed to use 3rd party software to give you an advantage. I believe ZoS deliberately avoids talking about macros (and programmable mice and keyboards) because there are issues involved for disabled players.

Haxnschwammer · February 2015

Everytime I read about an exploit I have this scene in mind:

1: There is a new exploit. What shall we do?
2: Can it be fixed easily?
1: Nope!
2: Then it is skilled play. Now get back to the cash shop!

Welka · February 2015

I have a feeling that it's all too easy to cry cheat when you don't understand what's happening on your screen.

Psychobunni · February 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

Sorry but macros aren't cheating! I was 100% sure it is, before I contacted support some time ago:

Thank you for contacting the Elder Scrolls Online. The use of macro's is perfectly legal. There is nothing wrong with using Macros, if you have a mouse or keyboard that can be set up with macro's and you wish to use them feel free. If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to reply to this email.

Warm Regards, Jon
The Elder Scrolls Support Team.

It would be a nice if a forum mod could also just once give a definitive answer on this so it could be linked whenever brought up. I myself just sent off for a naga for the macros, however I don't intend to pvp.

Nazon_Katts · February 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

I can almost guarantee you that you aren't being killed with 5 attacks within literally 1.0 seconds. It may SEEM like 1 second to you but it's actually longer, AND with attack weaving you can actually land 2 attacks almost simultaneously, no hacking/cheating/macro programs needed. Without hacking the game code (like speed hacks that gold farmers use to "fly" across the ground at incredible speeds) it's literally impossible to attack faster than once per 1 second, and only NB can do that with the current Haste ability as it brings the ability animation from 1.3 sec to 1.0 sec. Granted you can still land 2 attacks at basically the same time (Ability + LA) but then cannot do the same for another 1 second.

The way it works is this:
Opener: Teleport Strike (could even be Snipe) lands and starts the timer.

Light Attack: Lands almost at the same moment as the Opener.

1 second later

Secondary Ability is used: You are at roughly 1.1 sec at this point from the first hit.

Light Attack #2: Lands directly after Ability 2.

1 second later

Tertiary Ability is used: If you aren't already dead by then, you're roughly at 2.2 sec at this point from the first hit.

Light Attack #3: Lands directly after Ability 3 (JK, you're already dead by now).

This takes very good ping to execute as fast as ~2-2.5 seconds from the time the first hit landed. Also keep in mind that Player stalked you and had lots of time (often tens of minutes) preparing for just the right moment to gank you. I'm not saying People don't cheat, they certainly do. We all saw the multitude of Gold farming bots near launch, and there's no question they were hacking. There's also cheating like using DK chains to pull "enemies" up to keep walls, but they were actually their buddy and did so to steal a scroll.

If you have been reporting the same Players for 2 months then the only plausible answer is they didn't in fact exploit the game. It may seem like they are to you, but all ZoS has to do is check their logs, if they did use an exploit or hack the game code or even use a 3rd party Macro Software ZoS would be able to see it and ban them. How do you think they got rid of 99% of the Gold Sellers, via Players reporting them and then investigating their account.

Couldn't you just squeeze a bash in there as well and then end up with 6 attacks in just 1.1s? Dunno if that's going to produce enough damage to down someone, but 5 hits in almost 1s seems doable.

Karmine · February 2015

What if you are lagging and the guy is hitting you for 3 Seconds but because of lag he will only appear for 1 sec for you.

Or maybe there is no lag what so ever in PvP, Lag free Zone.

Miszou · February 2015

I use a Logitech G13 and the entire thing is built around Macros.

It would be kinda hard to say "macros are bad", since every customized key is basically a macro.

Having said that, I suppose the software could be viewed as "3rd party software", but then again - so could any manufacturers keyboard driver. Unless game companies want to start banning specific keyboards because something, something "3rd party" reasons, you'll never get rid of macros in games.

Volla · February 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

I can almost guarantee you that you aren't being killed with 5 attacks within literally 1.0 seconds. It may SEEM like 1 second to you but it's actually longer, AND with attack weaving you can actually land 2 attacks almost simultaneously, no hacking/cheating/macro programs needed. Without hacking the game code (like speed hacks that gold farmers use to "fly" across the ground at incredible speeds) it's literally impossible to attack faster than once per 1 second, and only NB can do that with the current Haste ability as it brings the ability animation from 1.3 sec to 1.0 sec. Granted you can still land 2 attacks at basically the same time (Ability + LA) but then cannot do the same for another 1 second.

The way it works is this:
Opener: Teleport Strike (could even be Snipe) lands and starts the timer.

Light Attack: Lands almost at the same moment as the Opener.

1 second later

Secondary Ability is used: You are at roughly 1.1 sec at this point from the first hit.

Light Attack #2: Lands directly after Ability 2.

1 second later

Tertiary Ability is used: If you aren't already dead by then, you're roughly at 2.2 sec at this point from the first hit.

Light Attack #3: Lands directly after Ability 3 (JK, you're already dead by now).

This takes very good ping to execute as fast as ~2-2.5 seconds from the time the first hit landed. Also keep in mind that Player stalked you and had lots of time (often tens of minutes) preparing for just the right moment to gank you. I'm not saying People don't cheat, they certainly do. We all saw the multitude of Gold farming bots near launch, and there's no question they were hacking. There's also cheating like using DK chains to pull "enemies" up to keep walls, but they were actually their buddy and did so to steal a scroll.

If you have been reporting the same Players for 2 months then the only plausible answer is they didn't in fact exploit the game. It may seem like they are to you, but all ZoS has to do is check their logs, if they did use an exploit or hack the game code or even use a 3rd party Macro Software ZoS would be able to see it and ban them. How do you think they got rid of 99% of the Gold Sellers, via Players reporting them and then investigating their account.

3rd party programs thats benefits in game consider cheats.
before you start to talk i think you need to experience what the *** they are doing.

its not 2.2 sec. why you continue to be here when its very clear you really don't have a clue what you talking about.

i dont even see the guy before im dead. its a flash then i'm dead. thats all
in that time he hit me 5 times. 3 ppl is doing this what i know about and all is in EP

Volla · February 2015

GreyBrow wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

You do understand that even with macro executing 7 actions under one second is just not possible because game doesn't allow such combination. Or what skill can be spammed without any cooldowns or casts?

then you probably never cross the players who do this.

i shows like this - Marked - Poff bam splat - dead ( not even a second ) when you look who and what did the dmg.. its a single guy who did 5 attacks under a second.

Because the fact you can Animation cancel you can hit a lot more manually but with macro you can hit a hell lot more.

i should not comment this if i were you, if you don't understand how it works.

LOL clearly YOU don't understand how it works. Macroing ISNT cheating, because macroing is actually SLOWER than doing it by hand.

Furthermore, even if you DO animation cancel, the time between attacks does not increase dramatically.

In simple terms:

ability + block + ability + block = ability + ability.

If the ability takes 0.75 seconds to perform, canceling the animation with a block will not allow you to do another action until 0.75 seconds have passed.

then maybe it isn't macroing .. its something else they doing.
and it dont matter how you count you 0.75 sec or what ever..
they doing something and its probably a cheat because i dont even see them almost. all i really see is shadowry and they are gone.
5 hits and i'm dead.... im not the only one noticed this.

if it were 0.75 sec i would probably have time block.
one time i got marked and i blocked... didnt even help. died as fast anyway.

all 3rd party program is cheating .. read the Code of conduct. they even stated so them self ZOE that is

charley222 · February 2015

dont you speak of clipping ? yea clipping macro give you more dps
but i dont use this

Volla · February 2015

charley222 wrote: »

dont you speak of clipping ? yea clipping macro give you more dps
but i dont use this

i dont use eather.. maby so i have no clue, maybe so. honestly i have no clue what clipping macro is :P

Surragard · February 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Surragard wrote: »

I wasn't aware that macros are cheating. I was of the impression that they are fairly common. As far as the OP goes, I think what you saw was more likely a hack than a set of macros if it was really that many attacks in a second.

Macros are cheating according to ZoS if you use 3rd party software to execute said Macros (addons and certain mouse features are not considered 3rd party software).

An important distinction. I see what you mean now. Yes if I'm running a macro for resource gathering that handles the gathering with no user input then its a banable offense. I understand that 100%. Same with botting at a dungeon boss.

Macros where I have to put in a single input to have the game automatically say activate 2 abilities one after another is fine though. Or using say Razer Synapse or that Logitech program (can't remember it) to set-up and store my macros is fine as well.

UrQuan · February 2015

Volla wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

Usually an NB class -
Teleport - 5 hits - Shadowy - Gone - im dead .. all this within less than a sec.

I can almost guarantee you that you aren't being killed with 5 attacks within literally 1.0 seconds. It may SEEM like 1 second to you but it's actually longer, AND with attack weaving you can actually land 2 attacks almost simultaneously, no hacking/cheating/macro programs needed. Without hacking the game code (like speed hacks that gold farmers use to "fly" across the ground at incredible speeds) it's literally impossible to attack faster than once per 1 second, and only NB can do that with the current Haste ability as it brings the ability animation from 1.3 sec to 1.0 sec. Granted you can still land 2 attacks at basically the same time (Ability + LA) but then cannot do the same for another 1 second.

The way it works is this:
Opener: Teleport Strike (could even be Snipe) lands and starts the timer.

Light Attack: Lands almost at the same moment as the Opener.

1 second later

Secondary Ability is used: You are at roughly 1.1 sec at this point from the first hit.

Light Attack #2: Lands directly after Ability 2.

1 second later

Tertiary Ability is used: If you aren't already dead by then, you're roughly at 2.2 sec at this point from the first hit.

Light Attack #3: Lands directly after Ability 3 (JK, you're already dead by now).

This takes very good ping to execute as fast as ~2-2.5 seconds from the time the first hit landed. Also keep in mind that Player stalked you and had lots of time (often tens of minutes) preparing for just the right moment to gank you. I'm not saying People don't cheat, they certainly do. We all saw the multitude of Gold farming bots near launch, and there's no question they were hacking. There's also cheating like using DK chains to pull "enemies" up to keep walls, but they were actually their buddy and did so to steal a scroll.

If you have been reporting the same Players for 2 months then the only plausible answer is they didn't in fact exploit the game. It may seem like they are to you, but all ZoS has to do is check their logs, if they did use an exploit or hack the game code or even use a 3rd party Macro Software ZoS would be able to see it and ban them. How do you think they got rid of 99% of the Gold Sellers, via Players reporting them and then investigating their account.

3rd party programs thats benefits in game consider cheats.
before you start to talk i think you need to experience what the *** they are doing.

its not 2.2 sec. why you continue to be here when its very clear you really don't have a clue what you talking about.

i dont even see the guy before im dead. its a flash then i'm dead. thats all
in that time he hit me 5 times. 3 ppl is doing this what i know about and all is in EP

You obviously don't know what they are really doing, or how this is happening to you.

Let me ask this question: are you experiencing lag when this is happening? Because the only way it makes any sense that you're seeing this amount of hits in the time you claim is if you've got lag that makes it appear that this is all happening that fast (ie. on your end it's registering all at once, but it's actually taking 2-2.5 seconds as explained above).

Next time you're doing PVP record it so that you can post a vid of this happening. It will then be much easier for people to identify what is actually happening.

Yusuf · February 2015

First, it's not "VOLLA" it's spelled "voila".

Second, i AM against using macros and i do consider it cheating if you use it in combat (there has been a DK for example who was AFK, but still casted reflective scales every 4 seconds when he was attacked), i also consider light-attack-weaving a skill and people who use makros to perfectly light-attack-weave.....meh.

Third, many examples you have given could be exploits but also bugs and i see no evidence you could gather to prove any player guilty of exploiting except he/she specifically said so.

The thing about those examples is that most of them could be bug-related or people have been waiting behind the scrollgate for the right moment to strike.

I actually have waited 20 minutes behind a scroll-gate with my guild until the gates were closed and the enemy thought there was no danger to the scrolls anymore, that's tactic.

The "wallhack"-thing happened to me once too, a corner of a keep-wall didnt render for me and i could see the enemies outside, THEN I JUST WALKED THROUGH THE WALL ALL OTHER PLAYERS SAW AND COULD FIGHT THEM.

So in general, exploiting is a serious issue, but not everyone is viciously exploitingthe game and many people could get unjustifiably be banned because they were the victim of a bug if we had a judge with too loose of a hammer.

EDIT: lol i though you spelled voila false, turned out that's your forum-name xD

BRogueNZ · February 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Let me ask this question: are you experiencing lag when this is happening? Because the only way it makes any sense TO ME is that you're seeing this amount of hits in the time you claim is if you've got lag that makes it appear that this is all happening that fast (

Fixed