Magnus Gift- so under rated

RinaldoGandolphi

So I have been messing around with a 5 piece Magnus Gift set the last few days and I wish I knew how good this set was sooner. I would have traded in my Seducer long ago.

First thing is first, this is NOT stastical comparison. Infact its not a cost reduction comparison either.

Its a short term gains comparison to be more accurate. On most days Magnus Gift in my findings allows a spellcaster to be more busty. Everytime you get a free cast, that free cast in essence indirectly increases your total max magicka, depending on the spell that is cast for free this can be an increase in the magnitude of a few hundred.

Comparing them over 100 or 1000 casts is not accurate measurement because Magnus Gift is based on the current cast, not over a set number.

You get 8% chance for free spell every cast. Sometimes you will get nothing, other times you will string 4-5 free casts per mana bar...Seducer doesn't come close to offering this as every free cast from Magnus is an indirect increases in your total max magicka.

I think the Magnus set has been misunderstood for a long time.

Seducer = cheaper spell costs.

Magnus = potential indirect increase to total max magicka due to cost negation short term.

Magnus has the potential to be better over the short term, Seducer is better over long term. It just comes down to if your willing to gamble short term on Magnus.

Just as a side note me and a buddy were testing who could Bolt Escape the most.

4 out of 10 times I could bolt more in Magnus then he could in Seducer with the same amount of magicka and identical jewelry.

4 out of 10 times I could keep pace with seducer + warlock due to the free casts.

Magnus can be very bursty, IV seen it proc 2 times in a row quite frequently if your casting a 50% increase bolt escape this is quite a return on the short term gamble.

Like anything else you will have bad days, but when it works its noticeable big time.

This is not a seducer vs Magnus thread, its about how comparing the two over x number of casts is not an accurate measurement because Magnus is all about gambling on short term gains vs Seducers more steady long term gains.

The_Man_From_Stygia

woodsro wrote: »

On most days Magnus Gift in my findings allows a spellcaster to be more busty.

I'm not sure what this has to do with spell casting but I'm all for it

Iselin

I'm all for more busty spellcasters... the bigger the better

Grunim

Iselin wrote: »

I'm all for more busty spellcasters... the bigger the better

The boys depend on us?

But back on topic, I usually haven't done enough sacrifices to the gods to feel comfortable going with the potential RNG payoff of Magnus, so I'm a Seducer sort of lady.

kijima

woodsro wrote: »

.... I wish I knew how good this set was sooner...

On most days Magnus Gift in my findings allows a spellcaster to be more busty....

Wow, did not know that! Wish I knew that sooner too.

Thats's great news for me, I've tried adjusting the slider all the way up on torso to increase the bust size of my toon (still not happy yet, E cups are so weak) but now I know I just have to craft up a set of Magnus Gift and get my toon to wear it.

Do you know if you require the 5 set bonus for the increase in busty?

Ah, Magnus you truly are the gift that keeps on giving.

Grasshopper

Actually you do hold a point that is not often seen by the community, When it comes to burst returns magnus is often times better for that then seducer.



AHHH MATH, Skip to bottom if you do not want to read it.

Reason being that the cost reduction between them is minimal,
For example, using statistical probability you can come out to the exact cost reduction they would have if it was a perfect world
Magnus is 8% chance to proc assuming it proc perfectly every time you can divide it by your perfect chance of
100/8 = 12.5

So lets use my healer for example without seducer the cost of my healing springs is 263, divide that by the 12.5 and you get 21.04. So per use of ability with it I save 21.04 mana per use.

While seducer with the diminishing returns reduces the cost of 263 to 233, or a total cost reduction of 30 mana per use.

The kicker to this is thought that magnus has spell damage tipping it to be overall better for a dps, while seducer is much better at sustaining because it has another 10 mana per 2 seconds.
Keep in mind though if you are stacking cost reduction the magnus is unaffected by diminishing returns (which is still present in 1.6 cost reduction)

TL;DR/Conclusion:
This guy hit the nail on the head the cost reduction between seducer and magnus is small, but seducer beats in the long run. At the same time the extra spell power you get from magnus makes it more potent then seducer both in short duration and damage setups. The difference between them is also static so there is no change on cost reduction per ability.
It really comes down to,

1. Are you doing burst/damage or sustain
2. Are you feeling lucky,,, punk?

Panda244

Magnus Gift is RNG based, in long term fights I'd rather have Seducer because it's there all the time, no matter what. Of course, Magnus could proc on every other spell and save me more magicka than Seducer, but it's not worth the risk... So many aspects of my build rely on RNG, adding another is suicide.

Sandmanninja

On my Templar, I equip him with 5-piece Seducer set and 5-piece Magnus set (yay for 2 daggers when I'm DPSing!). VERY awesome combination. I go down to 4-piece magnus when I heal.

OrphanHelgen

woodsro wrote: »

4 out of 10 times I could bolt more in Magnus then he could in Seducer with the same amount of magicka and identical jewelry.

So this means that 6 out of 10 times, the Seducer was better? ;-)

Panda244

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

4 out of 10 times I could bolt more in Magnus then he could in Seducer with the same amount of magicka and identical jewelry.

So this means that 6 out of 10 times, the Seducer was better? ;-)

Seducer is better for ereethang fights, Magnus would be good if the % chance was higher.... But it's poopy.

Magnus -is- better, if you're descended from the RNG gods.

LegacyDM

Yeah but how does it compare to warlock set?!

RinaldoGandolphi

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

4 out of 10 times I could bolt more in Magnus then he could in Seducer with the same amount of magicka and identical jewelry.

So this means that 6 out of 10 times, the Seducer was better? ;-)

Yes but only by a smidge, on the times Magnus proced it was significantly better.

Again though, Magnus is short term gain.

Think of Magnus as the 25 Meter speed runner.

Think of seducer as the marathon runner.

Going full tilt in a marathon will have you out of gas quickly, on the flip side running a marathon race in a short 25 meter sprint isn't optimal either.

Both are good, it just depends what you want.

With Magnus since the 8% chance is RNG based with each cast, the larger your mana pool, the more you can cast, the more you can cast, the better your chances of getting free casts becomes. The larger amounts of magic in 1.6 makes this extremely attractive as its hard to run out of magic even without seducer, so gambling with Magnus makes more since imo as its probably the route ill go...i like playing dangerously

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

I always go with Seducer if its a Magicka toon, I like the guaranteed 8% cost reduction on Magicka all the time. I don't like to take chances...

Daveheart

Who needs guaranteed cost reduction when you have spell sym? PvE I go Magnus, PvP gets Seducer.

Cyhawk

Ah this debate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j6uVYt166-8LNUOdHw5_WeXlOZg_L_6vvBV-uZv-aG0/edit?usp=sharing

When you include the regeneration over Spell power, Seducer is 6.46% better than magnus at magicka, if you ignore the regen bonus, Seducer is only 2.37% better. This is using Lava whip (280 magicka cost, about average) spell.

The wide becomes greater the lower cost spell you're using as the test. More expensive spells, the less the difference is. (copy the spreadsheet and make changes to the base cost to see what I mean)

Magnus is only more useful if you need the spell power over the additional 4%~ cost reduction. Trust me when I say that 4% IS noticeable in both PvP and PvE.

* For PvP situations, 9/10 times Magnus is better since fights are shorter and damage is more important.
* PvE where you're casting a lot and need a larger effective pool of magicka, Seducer is better.
* If we're talking trials... why the hell are you wearing seducer or magnus in a trial?
* If you don't care about the math behind it, why are you even here debating it? This is a math problem, not a feels problem.

Edit: I should also mention, even at its base not including regen, Seducer is 2.37% better than magnus at all times.

Panda244

Cyhawk wrote: »

Ah this debate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j6uVYt166-8LNUOdHw5_WeXlOZg_L_6vvBV-uZv-aG0/edit?usp=sharing

When you include the regeneration over Spell power, Seducer is 6.46% better than magnus at magicka, if you ignore the regen bonus, Seducer is only 2.37% better. This is using Lava whip (280 magicka cost, about average) spell.

The wide becomes greater the lower cost spell you're using as the test. More expensive spells, the less the difference is. (copy the spreadsheet and make changes to the base cost to see what I mean)

Magnus is only more useful if you need the spell power over the additional 4%~ cost reduction. Trust me when I say that 4% IS noticeable in both PvP and PvE.

* For PvP situations, 9/10 times Magnus is better since fights are shorter and damage is more important.
* PvE where you're casting a lot and need a larger effective pool of magicka, Seducer is better.
* If we're talking trials... why the hell are you wearing seducer or magnus in a trial?
* If you don't care about the math behind it, why are you even here debating it? This is a math problem, not a feels problem.

Edit: I should also mention, even at its base not including regen, Seducer is 2.37% better than magnus at all times.

Trials? People still do those....? If I need money I spend 2-3hrs farming for a Signet of the Warlock in AA, and sell it. But once I completed all trials I stopped doing them, the sets are garbage for PvP and PvP is the only progressive end game atm so meh.

Arkadius

Sandmanninja wrote: »

On my Templar, I equip him with 5-piece Seducer set and 5-piece Magnus set (yay for 2 daggers when I'm DPSing!). VERY awesome combination. I go down to 4-piece magnus when I heal.

Wonder how exactly you equip 10 pieces of crafted items on 9 possible slots?

BTT: As a healer, I always prefer flat reduction (seducer) over rng (magnus)

twev

Xiana wrote: »

Sandmanninja wrote: »

On my Templar, I equip him with 5-piece Seducer set and 5-piece Magnus set (yay for 2 daggers when I'm DPSing!). VERY awesome combination. I go down to 4-piece magnus when I heal.

Wonder how exactly you equip 10 pieces of crafted items on 9 possible slots?

BTT: As a healer, I always prefer flat reduction (seducer) over rng (magnus)

Common Core.

Robocles

woodsro wrote: »

On most days Magnus Gift in my findings allows a spellcaster to be more busty.

I just love a busty spellcaster.

Xexpo

Gift of Magnus is similar to Sex Panther Cologne
... 92% of the time it does Nothing every time

Merlin13KAGL

The_Man_From_Stygia wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

On most days Magnus Gift in my findings allows a spellcaster to be more busty.

I'm not sure what this has to do with spell casting but I'm all for it

@The_Man_From_Stygia‌ , seemed directly related to projectiles, if you ask me.

clocksstoppe

Get a load of this guy, he thinks he knows better than maths.

Suru

RNJesus isnt a nice guy sometimes

Surfinginhawaii

I just switched to Magnus because of this post and now that I read everything, I'm going back to Seducer, I just wasted some mats .

starkerealm

Panda244 wrote: »

Magnus Gift is RNG based, in long term fights I'd rather have Seducer because it's there all the time, no matter what. Of course, Magnus could proc on every other spell and save me more magicka than Seducer, but it's not worth the risk... So many aspects of my build rely on RNG, adding another is suicide.

Yeah, this is basically where I'm at with it. I like the look of Magnus' Gift, but I can't justify it in the build...

Of course, now that I know it makes characters more busty...

Xexpo

Now I see ....

Ezareth

So many people are running these comparisons without truly understanding the math behind the sets.

I'll explain the 1.5 math as the 1.6 math is more complicated (Although the conclusion is the same).

Spell reduction percentages are *additive*. What this means is you add everything you have up, set bonuses, passives, and procs and that is what your adjusted base spell is reduced by as a percentage. When I say "Adjusted" base I'm talking about base cost reduced by your cost reduction enchants.

Let's talk about BoL for example.

Let's call it 400 magicka base cost (I think it is 396 to be exact). You get a 15% reduction from passives, if you're wearing Light Armor that cost is reduced another 21%. This means your adjusted base is already being reduced by 36%. Adding Seducer to this makes it 44%. Increasing your spell cost from 36% to 44% isn't an 8% increase in this case, it is a 12.5% cost reduction to*every* lightning spell you cast under this scenario. This is why seducer (or if you want Apples to Apples Archmage set) is far superior to Magnus.

Other reasons Magnus is worse:

If you get a Magnus proc your other reduction benefits are wasted. Your cost reduction ring enchant contributes nothing during that proc, if you get a free proc during a crystal fragment proc then the fragment proc is wasted.

If your first cast from 100% magicka procs Magnus then your spell regeneration from the that point until your next cast is wasted, where with seducer that same cast reduces your mana enough to allow it to begin regenerating.

There are no "Diminishing" returns on Magicka Cost reduction(They're actually increasing!) but magicka cost reduction (including light armor and passives) reduce the effectiveness of cost reduction enchants by the same percentage.

Snit

That is an outstanding post, @ezareth_eso. Timely, too, as I am just about to craft my Breton Sorc's V14 set. It appears that Seducer is a far better choice.

Nestor

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

I just switched to Magnus because of this post and now that I read everything, I'm going back to Seducer, I just wasted some mats .

I used Seducer and liked it. Tried Magnus and ended up running out of Magic all the time.

Now, 5 Piece Seducer and 3/4 Piece Magnus, that can be a nice combo to have. You may never run out of Magic with that combo.

Maulkin

Seducer or Magnus? Archmage, every day of the week.

eliisra

One reason I would run Seducer over Magnus on a templar is to avoid crap rng. I know that 8% Magnus proc would keep going of on Healing Springs or some other dirt cheap ability. While I obviously want cheaper Breath of Life's.

But if most your equipped skills have the same cost, while stacking spell power is of greater importance than cost reduction or recovery(like a NB using a siphoning build), than Magnus is a pretty good set.