A Question about Cross Faction and it's Future(or lack thereof) in Tamriel Unlimited

Enodoc

wraith808 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Regarding the levelling gap between Silver and Gold; when Veteran Ranks are removed, this would no longer be an issue, so cross-faction in these 50+ zones would theoretically work as well.

So you're saying that the VR levels are the only difference between silver and gold and 1-50? Can I have some of what you're smoking? Because if they change it to *just* that... 50's getting a real boost in power. If I can take a mob at 50, I'm going to be really bored at whatever arbitrary difference I am at whatever my equivalent is now at VR10...

Yes? Silver is VR1-VR5 and Gold is VR6-VR10, so when they remove VRs this will not be the case. Not entirely sure what you're actually asking, but everyone, VR1 or VR14, is still Level 50 (and for this reason, renumbering the VRs as 51-63 would not work, as it changes their meaning). The whole point of them removing VRs is to flatten the gap.
Indeed, VR5 mobs are tougher than the VR1 mobs (but not as different as Lvl 3 mobs to Lvl 43 mobs), and they will have to maintain some of that difference to keep a feeling of progression, but there is no reason to suppose that when they do get around to removing the VRs that you won't be able to do anything in any order. I think the content will be set so that you can do any of the endgame activities when you hit 50, and not have to go through endgame sequentially like you do now. (What sort of endgame is sequential?)

Endgame Now (sequential):
VR1 ----> VR6 ----> VR11 ----> VR14
Silver ----> Gold ----> Craglorn ----> Only now viable for Cyrodiil and Trials

Endgame after removing VRs (open-ended):
New Lvl 50 ----> Established Level 50
Silver Zone 1 ----> Silver Zone 5
Gold Zone 1 ----> Gold Zone 5
Lower Crag ----> Upper Crag
Early Trials ----> Hard-Mode Trials
Already viable for Cyrodiil

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Regarding the levelling gap between Silver and Gold; when Veteran Ranks are removed, this would no longer be an issue, so cross-faction in these 50+ zones would theoretically work as well.

So you're saying that the VR levels are the only difference between silver and gold and 1-50? Can I have some of what you're smoking? Because if they change it to *just* that... 50's getting a real boost in power. If I can take a mob at 50, I'm going to be really bored at whatever arbitrary difference I am at whatever my equivalent is now at VR10...

Yes? Silver is VR1-VR5 and Gold is VR6-VR10, so when they remove VRs this will not be the case. Not entirely sure what you're actually asking, but everyone, VR1 or VR14, is still Level 50 (and for this reason, renumbering the VRs as 51-63 would not work, as it changes their meaning). The whole point of them removing VRs is to flatten the gap.
Indeed, VR5 mobs are tougher than the VR1 mobs (but not as different as Lvl 3 mobs to Lvl 43 mobs), and they will have to maintain some of that difference to keep a feeling of progression, but there is no reason to suppose that when they do get around to removing the VRs that you won't be able to do anything in any order. I think the content will be set so that you can do any of the endgame activities when you hit 50, and not have to go through endgame sequentially like you do now. (What sort of endgame is sequential?)

Endgame Now (sequential):
VR1 ----> VR6 ----> VR11 ----> VR14
Silver ----> Gold ----> Craglorn ----> Only now viable for Cyrodiil and Trials

Endgame after removing VRs (open-ended):
New Lvl 50 ----> Established Level 50
Silver Zone 1 ----> Silver Zone 5
Gold Zone 1 ----> Gold Zone 5
Lower Crag ----> Upper Crag
Early Trials ----> Hard-Mode Trials
Already viable for Cyrodiil

Care to explain why renumbering VR levels to numeric sequential after 50 would not work? Its literally what VR levels are.

They talk about removing VR levels but no where have I seen where they are removing the VR level content, specifically the silver and gold questing zones.

Also, a level 50 is not in any way = to a VR2- VR14. There is a HUGE difference starting at VR2 which progressively grows as the VR levels increase.

The monster VR levels also increase which progressively increase NPC difficulty.

2 questions:

Please explain why your comment expresses that 50 = VR 2 - VR14?
Please explain why changing VR 2 - VR14 into 51-64 would not work?

wraith808

Enodoc wrote: »

Yes? Silver is VR1-VR5 and Gold is VR6-VR10, so when they remove VRs this will not be the case. Not entirely sure what you're actually asking, but everyone, VR1 or VR14, is still Level 50 (and for this reason, renumbering the VRs as 51-63 would not work, as it changes their meaning). The whole point of them removing VRs is to flatten the gap.
Indeed, VR5 mobs are tougher than the VR1 mobs (but not as different as Lvl 3 mobs to Lvl 43 mobs), and they will have to maintain some of that difference to keep a feeling of progression, but there is no reason to suppose that when they do get around to removing the VRs that you won't be able to do anything in any order. I think the content will be set so that you can do any of the endgame activities when you hit 50, and not have to go through endgame sequentially like you do now. (What sort of endgame is sequential?)

Endgame Now (sequential):
VR1 ----> VR6 ----> VR11 ----> VR14
Silver ----> Gold ----> Craglorn ----> Only now viable for Cyrodiil and Trials

Endgame after removing VRs (open-ended):
New Lvl 50 ----> Established Level 50
Silver Zone 1 ----> Silver Zone 5
Gold Zone 1 ----> Gold Zone 5
Lower Crag ----> Upper Crag
Early Trials ----> Hard-Mode Trials
Already viable for Cyrodiil

The difficulty level is not purely based on the numeric level you are. There are differences in damage, mitigation, stats, etc. My VR10 does a *lot* more damage than my VR3. The opponents also do a lot more damage and take a lot more to kill. VR is not just a number. It might not scale as much as we think it should for the effort required... but it *does* scale.

NewBlacksmurf

wraith808 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Yes? Silver is VR1-VR5 and Gold is VR6-VR10, so when they remove VRs this will not be the case. Not entirely sure what you're actually asking, but everyone, VR1 or VR14, is still Level 50 (and for this reason, renumbering the VRs as 51-63 would not work, as it changes their meaning). The whole point of them removing VRs is to flatten the gap.
Indeed, VR5 mobs are tougher than the VR1 mobs (but not as different as Lvl 3 mobs to Lvl 43 mobs), and they will have to maintain some of that difference to keep a feeling of progression, but there is no reason to suppose that when they do get around to removing the VRs that you won't be able to do anything in any order. I think the content will be set so that you can do any of the endgame activities when you hit 50, and not have to go through endgame sequentially like you do now. (What sort of endgame is sequential?)


The difficulty level is not purely based on the numeric level you are. There are differences in damage, mitigation, stats, etc. My VR10 does a *lot* more damage than my VR3. The opponents also do a lot more damage and take a lot more to kill. VR is not just a number. It might not scale as much as we think it should for the effort required... but it *does* scale.

My comments are based on the general rule of thumb...

-A VR1 character played by someone with the exact same skills and character will notice an increased difficulty when trying to kill a VR1 vs VR2 or VR3 based on the level difference. This may only be hit points or range of attacks/weapon usage of the NPC or armor. In some cases it applies to the # of NPCs that join in on an attack.

-Your comment about how much dmg your chars do vs another VR character of your own...
That is based on how you or how someone else chooses to play any given character but in general a VR2 vs a VR3 NPC is more difficult.
-Replacing the VR 1 - VR14 with 51 - 64 is purely cosmetic and has no game impact.

-Never has any ZOS post or interview confirmed the removal of any silver and gold quests. Never has ZOS confirmed that they intend to remove a level gap between level 50 and VR10 - VR14.

*I believe this is a personal perception that you have which makes a lot of sense and is also my hope. I think your perception is rationale but its not backed up by a ZOS statement. (I may be wrong so if you have something official, please share).


So...initially the issue for them MAYBE is what do we do with silver, gold and any VR1 - VR10 content. I and many others have made suggestions but we have yet to see any progression even on PTS of such ideas from the community and/or from ZOS.

wraith808

I can't really tell what's in your quote, since the way it is quoted is confusing. So no response will be forthcoming unless you can format it in a more general discussion format. Sorry... I tried, but I can't take the time to unpack that.

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Regarding the levelling gap between Silver and Gold; when Veteran Ranks are removed, this would no longer be an issue, so cross-faction in these 50+ zones would theoretically work as well.

So you're saying that the VR levels are the only difference between silver and gold and 1-50? Can I have some of what you're smoking? Because if they change it to *just* that... 50's getting a real boost in power. If I can take a mob at 50, I'm going to be really bored at whatever arbitrary difference I am at whatever my equivalent is now at VR10...

Yes? Silver is VR1-VR5 and Gold is VR6-VR10, so when they remove VRs this will not be the case. Not entirely sure what you're actually asking, but everyone, VR1 or VR14, is still Level 50 (and for this reason, renumbering the VRs as 51-63 would not work, as it changes their meaning). The whole point of them removing VRs is to flatten the gap.
Indeed, VR5 mobs are tougher than the VR1 mobs (but not as different as Lvl 3 mobs to Lvl 43 mobs), and they will have to maintain some of that difference to keep a feeling of progression, but there is no reason to suppose that when they do get around to removing the VRs that you won't be able to do anything in any order. I think the content will be set so that you can do any of the endgame activities when you hit 50, and not have to go through endgame sequentially like you do now. (What sort of endgame is sequential?)

Endgame Now (sequential):
VR1 ----> VR6 ----> VR11 ----> VR14
Silver ----> Gold ----> Craglorn ----> Only now viable for Cyrodiil and Trials

Endgame after removing VRs (open-ended):
New Lvl 50 ----> Established Level 50
Silver Zone 1 ----> Silver Zone 5
Gold Zone 1 ----> Gold Zone 5
Lower Crag ----> Upper Crag
Early Trials ----> Hard-Mode Trials
Already viable for Cyrodiil

Care to explain why renumbering VR levels to numeric sequential after 50 would not work? Its literally what VR levels are.

They talk about removing VR levels but no where have I seen where they are removing the VR level content, specifically the silver and gold questing zones.

Also, a level 50 is not in any way = to a VR2- VR14. There is a HUGE difference starting at VR2 which progressively grows as the VR levels increase.

The monster VR levels also increase which progressively increase NPC difficulty.

2 questions:

Please explain why your comment expresses that 50 = VR 2 - VR14?
Please explain why changing VR 2 - VR14 into 51-64 would not work?

Every Veteran Rank character is Level 50 with extra stats; if there was a true "Level" difference between VR1 and VR14, there would be a difference in quest reward XP, but there isn't. Complete a quest at VR1, you get 4990 XP. Complete a quest at VR14, you get 4990 XP. Silver (VR1-5) quests are all Level 50, Gold (VR6-10) quests are all Level 50, Craglorn (VR11+) quests are all Level 50. If VRs were equivalent to levels, then these quests would be labelled with respective Veteran Ranks, not Level 50, and the "Level 50" quests would go green when you hit VR4, and grey when you hit VR7. But they don't. VR1 is Level 50, VR14 is also Level 50. VR1 characters are Level 50, VR14 characters are also Level 50, but with better stats.

If they were to change VR2-14 to 51-63, they would have to change all the quests for each Veteran area so they were based on these levels instead of all being Level 50, which would bring in more restrictions. They would also need to change the way stats work for everyone who was previously just Level 50 (VR1-14) to accommodate for the new levels, and it would destroy anyone's hopes of reaching the "endgame" straight after defeating Molag Bal because the sequential content I mentioned above would be solidified. This is exactly what they have said people don't want; turning VR1-14 into Levels 50-63 is not removing the separation of Veteran Ranks at all.

I also never suggested they were removing the VR level content; all I am suggesting is that they will flatten it so that you don't have to do Silver before Gold, and both of those before being viable for Cyrodiil and Trials, and will instead be able to do Silver and Gold in either order, and be immediately viable for Cyrodiil and the lower Trials without doing either.

Nazon_Katts

The only reason the xp rewards (generally) do not differ from zone to zone now, is due to the fact that every VR needs the same amount of xp as well and doesn't increase exponentially anymore. The only thing it tells, is that we're dealing with static levels now.

And levels they are, as everyone of them comes with a considerable power increase of your character. You get points to spent and automatic increases to stats. Loot, gear and mobs do change with every VR increase, too.

Wether you name them VR1-14, 50-63 or gummy bear alpha to gummy bear ny, nothing but level text description would change.

wraith808

Enodoc wrote: »

I also never suggested they were removing the VR level content; all I am suggesting is that they will flatten it so that you don't have to do Silver before Gold, and both of those before being viable for Cyrodiil and Trials, and will instead be able to do Silver and Gold in either order, and be immediately viable for Cyrodiil and the lower Trials without doing either.

Ah... so you're just saying remove the level gate on content? That I can get behind. It's really the biggest part of VR that I don't like. But there is a definite difference in difficulty- so you're going to have people complaining no matter what.

And the Experience to gain VR used to be scaled to level. I adventured with my guildies that were in the upper VRs while I was in the lower VRs when the experience curve was different, and they received a *lot* more VPs than I did. It was scaled to the number of VPs required per level. As they've flattened out that curve, there's no reason to scale the XP gain.

WraithAzraiel

Kragorn wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Since this HASN'T been the case, the possibility and easiest way to implement this type of gameplay, is to put it in with the zones that haven't been released yet.

Touching 1-50 would be FAR too large of an undertaking and would inevitably be unnecessary and a waste of time and resources.

What about VR1-VR14?

Putting this type of content into 'unreleased areas' I presume you mean VR14+ areas which is fine, but you don't want 1-50 fiddling with .. so where does that leave VR1-VR14 leveling?

Same place as now and that's a problem because those zones are nigh on deserted which is a huge problem for those still working on getting to Craglorn levels, I know, personally.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with leveling or exclusion of any sort.

ZOS has already stated, around the same time that they announced B2P, that when the new zones come out, everyone will be able to experience them, regardless of level.

I'm betting rather than the zone scaling down to the players, the players will scale UP to the zone, much like how battle-leveling works with Cyrodiil.


If you're referring to the Cadwell's Silver/Gold zones, then those would be far too much of an undertaking to change as well.


Easiest and most cost effective route to go with cross-faction is making the new zone cross faction and leaving all the current content alone, except for maybe Craglorn.

Enodoc

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Since this HASN'T been the case, the possibility and easiest way to implement this type of gameplay, is to put it in with the zones that haven't been released yet.

Touching 1-50 would be FAR too large of an undertaking and would inevitably be unnecessary and a waste of time and resources.

What about VR1-VR14?

Putting this type of content into 'unreleased areas' I presume you mean VR14+ areas which is fine, but you don't want 1-50 fiddling with .. so where does that leave VR1-VR14 leveling?

Same place as now and that's a problem because those zones are nigh on deserted which is a huge problem for those still working on getting to Craglorn levels, I know, personally.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with leveling or exclusion of any sort.

ZOS has already stated, around the same time that they announced B2P, that when the new zones come out, everyone will be able to experience them, regardless of level.

I'm betting rather than the zone scaling down to the players, the players will scale UP to the zone, much like how battle-leveling works with Cyrodiil.

I think they even already confirmed as much.

Easiest and most cost effective route to go with cross-faction is making the new zone cross faction and leaving all the current content alone, except for maybe Craglorn.

Craglorn ... and Coldharbour and Eyevea and the Earth Forge and Group Dungeons and Trials and... [/brokenrecord]

If they can (technically) manage to do it for new content, they can do it for all of these.

Rust_in_Peace

I agree with mostly everything in this thread with regards to opening up pve grouping to cross faction and removing the VR ranks so that you can quest in any post-50 zone you want at your leisure. THAT is much more Elder Scrolls than the system we currently have. I am of the opinion that you should be able to see people of the other alliances when you are out in the world doing stuff. It's hard as it is to find groups for end game content, especially if you're part of an alliance with a lower population (cough, DC) like I am.

Magdalina

Oh god yes. This just can't be repeated. It's just frustrating to have a friend in another alliance and realize in order to play together one of you will have to suffer through 50 normal+14 vet levels.

Being able to at least group for dungeons/Trials cross faction would benefit EVERYONE. It wouldn't majorly change anything in the game since those are instanced to group anyway. It would really help people find groups - which is a HUGE problem, just look at the forums. Isn't it sad when there's a thread and people are like "omg I can't find a group too, let's run together, I'm heals! - I'm tank, and we're both NA, perfect! Wow I'm finally gonna be able to do all that group content, I'm so excited...oh wait you're AD and I'm DC. Nvm -____________-"
It would in no way be lore breaking since 2/3 of the dungeons are NOT in our faction's territory and we technically already help enemy NPCs there - might as well do it with enemy PCs while we're at it. After all, Undaunted don't belong to any faction.

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction. I mean, just think about it. All 3 alliances meet on Stirk and in the end agree that Mages and Fighter guilds should go on to Coldharbour and represent all 3 alliances there. However, once you get to Coldharbour, the other 2 alliances suddenly slack off and just don't appear.
Craglorn is a no faction land, completely unrelated to Alliance War and equally open to eveyone. But again for some reason the other 2 alliances just don't come there.
Just a random thought on "lorebreaking" :P

Enodoc

Magdalina wrote: »

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction.

Hit the nail on the head with that one there

So here's a question - which is one I've had trouble answering myself when making that same point on cross-faction neutral areas - how do you, lorewise, explain why there would be no PvP between these faction members when they see each other?

Here's some of the reasons I've come up with:

• The Guilds/the Star-Gazers don't allow it. [But how do they enforce it?]
• There is a mystical Daedric/Celestial reason why it is not possible.
• The threat to Tamriel from the Daedra/Celestials is greater than the Alliance War.
  [While this is true, what would happen in the roleplay instance when some haughty High Elf Battlereeve meets some racist Nord General? Personal stories are often "more important" than the big picture, no matter how much of a threat it is; why can't these mortal enemies kill each other for the crimes they have committed on the battlefield?]

Nazon_Katts

The other places just are not contested territories and the alliances were made out of necessity and for the common goal of deliberating Cyrodiil and claiming the ruby throne. Aside from ideology driven hardliners, most of Tamriel's inhabitants do get along well enough, so they're not prone to kill each other on sight.

Of course, there's tension and it should somehow show - something that could be achievable by adding the ability to flag oneself for Open World PvP.

Enodoc

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Of course, there's tension and it should somehow show - something that could be achievable by adding the ability to flag oneself for Open World PvP.

Yes, this is the exact thing I am referring to. In the event of cross-faction zones, should there be a PvP flag, or should it be PvE only? Since there is PvE content in Cyrodiil, I would not be against a PvP flag in Craglorn, but there are those who would be (although I can't remember why, as it shouldn't affect them if they don't flip the flag).

Messy1

PvP flag in 1-50 zones, player corpses = lootable, mayhem, chickens, cats and dogs sleeping together, total anarchy!!!

Magdalina

Enodoc wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction.

Hit the nail on the head with that one there

So here's a question - which is one I've had trouble answering myself when making that same point on cross-faction neutral areas - how do you, lorewise, explain why there would be no PvP between these faction members when they see each other?

Here's some of the reasons I've come up with:

• The Guilds/the Star-Gazers don't allow it. [But how do they enforce it?]
• There is a mystical Daedric/Celestial reason why it is not possible.
• The threat to Tamriel from the Daedra/Celestials is greater than the Alliance War.
  [While this is true, what would happen in the roleplay instance when some haughty High Elf Battlereeve meets some racist Nord General? Personal stories are often "more important" than the big picture, no matter how much of a threat it is; why can't these mortal enemies kill each other for the crimes they have committed on the battlefield?]

Well, in my mind reason #3 always seemed kinda...enough. We're there to save the world and stuff, it's no time for bickering;) Perhaps when you enter Coldharour/Craglorn for the first time an npc(Groundskeeper/Stargazer) should mention it, like talk about how grand this threat is and how all the bickering should be set aside between members of other alliances that have come to help.

It could potentially open a lot possibilities for open world PvP - kind of like what they promised in the last stage of Justice system which now apparently may not happen at all. Like maybe people who want to PvP in the cross faction zones could flag themselves for it and fight flagged members of other alliances, while those not flagging themselves wouldn't be affected at all. That's just an idea for distant future though, for starters it would be great if we just had crossfaction stuff at all.

Enodoc

Messy1 wrote: »

PvP flag in 1-50 zones, player corpses = lootable, mayhem, chickens, cats and dogs sleeping together, total anarchy!!!

Except none of those things, because we are talking about 50+ (and Coldharbour, I guess, which is 44+), corpses wouldn't be lootable (since they aren't in Cyrodiil), and it wouldn't affect anyone who has not opted in, so there wouldn't be anarchy.

Magdalina wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction.

Hit the nail on the head with that one there

So here's a question - which is one I've had trouble answering myself when making that same point on cross-faction neutral areas - how do you, lorewise, explain why there would be no PvP between these faction members when they see each other?

Here's some of the reasons I've come up with:

• The Guilds/the Star-Gazers don't allow it. [But how do they enforce it?]
• There is a mystical Daedric/Celestial reason why it is not possible.
• The threat to Tamriel from the Daedra/Celestials is greater than the Alliance War.
  [While this is true, what would happen in the roleplay instance when some haughty High Elf Battlereeve meets some racist Nord General? Personal stories are often "more important" than the big picture, no matter how much of a threat it is; why can't these mortal enemies kill each other for the crimes they have committed on the battlefield?]

Well, in my mind reason #3 always seemed kinda...enough. We're there to save the world and stuff, it's no time for bickering;) Perhaps when you enter Coldharour/Craglorn for the first time an npc(Groundskeeper/Stargazer) should mention it, like talk about how grand this threat is and how all the bickering should be set aside between members of other alliances that have come to help.

It could potentially open a lot possibilities for open world PvP - kind of like what they promised in the last stage of Justice system which now apparently may not happen at all. Like maybe people who want to PvP in the cross faction zones could flag themselves for it and fight flagged members of other alliances, while those not flagging themselves wouldn't be affected at all. That's just an idea for distant future though, for starters it would be great if we just had crossfaction stuff at all.

Sure, reason 3 seems enough to me as well. I agree that cross-faction at all would be best for starters, but thinking about the PvP may be necessary if their system is currently set up in a way that automatically enables killing of other-faction members regardless of where you are, as that would then have to be adapted so that you could not kill other faction members when not in Cyrodiil.

DeLindsay

Paul Sage just said a few days ago in that Off the Record webchat thing that they're still working on this, but it sounds like it's VERY low priority at this point. Low as in no way it'll happen before Console and maybe not even this year, le sigh.

WraithAzraiel

Enodoc wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Since this HASN'T been the case, the possibility and easiest way to implement this type of gameplay, is to put it in with the zones that haven't been released yet.

Touching 1-50 would be FAR too large of an undertaking and would inevitably be unnecessary and a waste of time and resources.

What about VR1-VR14?

Putting this type of content into 'unreleased areas' I presume you mean VR14+ areas which is fine, but you don't want 1-50 fiddling with .. so where does that leave VR1-VR14 leveling?

Same place as now and that's a problem because those zones are nigh on deserted which is a huge problem for those still working on getting to Craglorn levels, I know, personally.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with leveling or exclusion of any sort.

ZOS has already stated, around the same time that they announced B2P, that when the new zones come out, everyone will be able to experience them, regardless of level.

I'm betting rather than the zone scaling down to the players, the players will scale UP to the zone, much like how battle-leveling works with Cyrodiil.

I think they even already confirmed as much.

Easiest and most cost effective route to go with cross-faction is making the new zone cross faction and leaving all the current content alone, except for maybe Craglorn.

Craglorn ... and Coldharbour and Eyevea and the Earth Forge and Group Dungeons and Trials and... [/brokenrecord]

If they can (technically) manage to do it for new content, they can do it for all of these.

Those I don't see being a HUGE problem. But I think someone had mentioned having it done for the 1-50 zones. Hell no, that'd be WAY too big of a process and ZOS would never go for it.

But all those. Totally do-able.

WraithAzraiel

Enodoc wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction.

Hit the nail on the head with that one there

So here's a question - which is one I've had trouble answering myself when making that same point on cross-faction neutral areas - how do you, lorewise, explain why there would be no PvP between these faction members when they see each other?

Here's some of the reasons I've come up with:

• The Guilds/the Star-Gazers don't allow it. [But how do they enforce it?]
• There is a mystical Daedric/Celestial reason why it is not possible.
• The threat to Tamriel from the Daedra/Celestials is greater than the Alliance War.
  [While this is true, what would happen in the roleplay instance when some haughty High Elf Battlereeve meets some racist Nord General? Personal stories are often "more important" than the big picture, no matter how much of a threat it is; why can't these mortal enemies kill each other for the crimes they have committed on the battlefield?]

Simple and easy answer that is likely a LONG way away? Duels.

Kick open PvP to the side for the ability to /duel people. That way it's consensual.

Rev Rielle

Messy1 wrote: »

PvP flag in 1-50 zones, player corpses = lootable, mayhem, chickens, cats and dogs sleeping together, total anarchy!!!

Hehe.

I'd embed the appropriate ghostbusters youtube link, but I don't know how to on these forums

WraithAzraiel

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Messy1 wrote: »

PvP flag in 1-50 zones, player corpses = lootable, mayhem, chickens, cats and dogs sleeping together, total anarchy!!!

Hehe.

I'd embed the appropriate ghostbusters youtube link, but I don't know how to on these forums

You literally just post the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adsIOiRR074

Rev Rielle

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Messy1 wrote: »

PvP flag in 1-50 zones, player corpses = lootable, mayhem, chickens, cats and dogs sleeping together, total anarchy!!!

Hehe.

I'd embed the appropriate ghostbusters youtube link, but I don't know how to on these forums

You literally just post the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adsIOiRR074

Great, thanks! Clearly, I was trying to be too fancy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0
Love Bill Murray

Enodoc

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction.

Hit the nail on the head with that one there

So here's a question - which is one I've had trouble answering myself when making that same point on cross-faction neutral areas - how do you, lorewise, explain why there would be no PvP between these faction members when they see each other?

Here's some of the reasons I've come up with:

• The Guilds/the Star-Gazers don't allow it. [But how do they enforce it?]
• There is a mystical Daedric/Celestial reason why it is not possible.
• The threat to Tamriel from the Daedra/Celestials is greater than the Alliance War.
  [While this is true, what would happen in the roleplay instance when some haughty High Elf Battlereeve meets some racist Nord General? Personal stories are often "more important" than the big picture, no matter how much of a threat it is; why can't these mortal enemies kill each other for the crimes they have committed on the battlefield?]

Simple and easy answer that is likely a LONG way away? Duels.

Kick open PvP to the side for the ability to /duel people. That way it's consensual.

That works for me Get the cross-faction PvE in as-soon-as, and try to get duels into it later on.

TheShadowScout

Magdalina wrote: »

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction. I mean, just think about it. All 3 alliances meet on Stirk and in the end agree that Mages and Fighter guilds should go on to Coldharbour and represent all 3 alliances there. However, once you get to Coldharbour, the other 2 alliances suddenly slack off and just don't appear.
Craglorn is a no faction land, completely unrelated to Alliance War and equally open to eveyone. But again for some reason the other 2 alliances just don't come there.
Just a random thought on "lorebreaking" :P

Yes! Yes! YES!

They should have done coldharbor and craglorn like that from the beginning, a multi-fraction cooperative PvE region.
But I guess they just didn't, more's the pity. (one can still hope they maybe will change that, someday... just to set the lore right if nothing else)

I for one would also like to see some stuff between "kill-am-all Cyrodil" and "we're all allies united against a greater threat" cooperative PvE regions.
Maybe some pirate island, where the other alliances are "yellow" neutral but attackable, switching to "friendly" when grouped; with a main city where guards kinda enforce the peace, and wilds where anything goes...
It would allow a lot more choices. Do you want to go out and hunt other fraction players for some PvP, or group with them and do some PvE? And maybe ungroup after you finish that dungeon and stab your earlier comrade in the back?

WraithAzraiel

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

What is actually lorebreaking is that places like Coldharbour and Craglorn are NOT cross faction. I mean, just think about it. All 3 alliances meet on Stirk and in the end agree that Mages and Fighter guilds should go on to Coldharbour and represent all 3 alliances there. However, once you get to Coldharbour, the other 2 alliances suddenly slack off and just don't appear.
Craglorn is a no faction land, completely unrelated to Alliance War and equally open to eveyone. But again for some reason the other 2 alliances just don't come there.
Just a random thought on "lorebreaking" :P

Yes! Yes! YES!

They should have done coldharbor and craglorn like that from the beginning, a multi-fraction cooperative PvE region.
But I guess they just didn't, more's the pity. (one can still hope they maybe will change that, someday... just to set the lore right if nothing else)

I for one would also like to see some stuff between "kill-am-all Cyrodil" and "we're all allies united against a greater threat" cooperative PvE regions.
Maybe some pirate island, where the other alliances are "yellow" neutral but attackable, switching to "friendly" when grouped; with a main city where guards kinda enforce the peace, and wilds where anything goes...
It would allow a lot more choices. Do you want to go out and hunt other fraction players for some PvP, or group with them and do some PvE? And maybe ungroup after you finish that dungeon and stab your earlier comrade in the back?

As long as I get a friggin' ship, I'm cool with pirate island.


WTB Naval warfare PvP please

TheShadowScout

Yarr, harr, fiddle de dee, being a pirate is 'awright with me...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We don't even have mounted combat, yet... Although, some sort of naval gameplay would be sooo cool...
I fondly remember how in "Daggerfall" you could buy your own ship as housing... a nice medium sized ship would make a neat version of player housing here as well. And naval warfare... I really liked the one scene in the AD storyline where you get to do a little combat at the high seas, bord the enemy ship, and so on. It would be really neat to see something like that in ESO PvP, someday...

glak

They should make all DLC zones be cross-faction. It will be popular and make even more money as being the only way to play cross-faction with your main character.

Conversely, they could make cross-faction cost a high amount of crowns in the in-game store and it would pay for itself that way. They could slowly convert old zones to be cross-faction as population drops enough for a PvE faction "merge".

WraithAzraiel

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Yarr, harr, fiddle de dee, being a pirate is 'awright with me...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We don't even have mounted combat, yet... Although, some sort of naval gameplay would be sooo cool...
I fondly remember how in "Daggerfall" you could buy your own ship as housing... a nice medium sized ship would make a neat version of player housing here as well. And naval warfare... I really liked the one scene in the AD storyline where you get to do a little combat at the high seas, bord the enemy ship, and so on. It would be really neat to see something like that in ESO PvP, someday...

Oh absolutely, that's the exact quest I've referenced every time I've brought up the topic in PvP threads. Hopefully it makes it in!

During the last ESO Live, I asked
Here's hoping it makes it to the "Board of Things to DO"