Stat Increases from Spending CP Points and diminishing returns

Bouvin

I was curious what the diminishing returns on Stat increases for spending CP points looks like.

So I created a template character and spent the points 1 at a time to plot the increases.

I rolled a NB v14 template breton. Didn't spend any points on skills or stats, and didn't put any gear on.

It's pretty apparent that there are diminishing returns. However, I did notice that occasionally a point would get a slightly bigger return than the previous point.

For instance. on magicka

Point 15: 0.1685% increase
Point 16: 0.1562%
Point 17: 0.1679%
Point 18: 0.1557%
Point 19: 0.1435%

Here's what I got. I don't have Matlab at home..so no plotting the curve but it should give you a general idea of what the returns look like.



Edit:

Wanted to add this graph showing the diminishing returns.

Bouvin

Next, I put 20 points in each stat.

I did this because I wanted to see if it was a flat increase or percentage.

Looking at the data, it is a percentage increase. However, I did notice that with 20 in each stat the percentage increases for each CP spent were slightly smaller, small enough that it is probably just rounding error.

Bouvin

and one final test. I took an Imperial, maxed out Health and the Tough passive (+12% health) and maxed out all the health gear that comes with the template.

Again, the percentages were close, probably rounding error.

So, it looks like the bigger your base is the more you'll get out of the CP stat increases.

dwtdwtdwt

hmmm... good to know!

Elsonso

So, cumulative application yields about a 6% increase from base after 24 CP?

Soulborn_Solitude

Data expert at its finest!

Bouvin

lordrichter wrote: »

So, cumulative application yields about a 6% increase from base after 24 CP?

Correct.

SanderBuraas

Very nice. Our characters will obviously be very strong as we earn more champion points and simply spend them.

Cyhawk

Have you figured out the formula for determining the final value? I figured it was a sqrt somehow but couldn't piece it together.

Soulac

So without exact testing we don't know the increases for like 100 invested points? Does it even stop? Is there any kind of logic behind that?

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Smepic wrote: »

Very nice. Our characters will obviously be very strong as we earn more champion points and simply spend them.

"Our characters will become as strong as they are now eventually as we earn more champion points and simply spend them."

fixed that for ya

Smaxx

Think I've read somewhere that you can spend a total of 100 points per star. Would have to look it up, but I think every constellation has 4 stars to put points into, with 3 constellations, so you're able to spend 1200 points per guardian/color as a maximum.

SanderBuraas

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Very nice. Our characters will obviously be very strong as we earn more champion points and simply spend them.

"Our characters will become as strong as they are now eventually as we earn more champion points and simply spend them."

fixed that for ya

You do realize that with the changes with champion system, we will be able to become way stronger than what we currently are, just that it will take a longer time?

ashlee17

Thanks for sharing your hard work and effort Bouvin much appreciated!

Will racial pasives be even stronger with champion points on top? My poor argonian wants to know if it will be able to hold its ground against an imperial now.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Smepic wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Very nice. Our characters will obviously be very strong as we earn more champion points and simply spend them.

"Our characters will become as strong as they are now eventually as we earn more champion points and simply spend them."

fixed that for ya

You do realize that with the changes with champion system, we will be able to become way stronger than what we currently are, just that it will take a longer time?

you do know that we are significantly nerfed with 1.6,
yes eventually, after 1000 of hours of playing we'll become stronger, once we filled the gap, but that will take some time

Bouvin

ashlee17 wrote: »

Thanks for sharing your hard work and effort Bouvin much appreciated!

Will racial pasives be even stronger with champion points on top? My poor argonian wants to know if it will be able to hold its ground against an imperial now.

Well, each CP in it's respective consellation (Red for Health, Blue for Magicka, Green for Stamina) adds a % increase.

So if you're base is higher, the % increase is going to give a bigger return.

You can see that with the Imperial example. He got more health points per CP because his base (including racial passives AND armor/enchants) was higher.

So yes, everything counts because, as it is in 1.6.1, the CP bonus is on top of everything else.

So if you want a lot of magicka you can choose the appropriate race and gear and get more gains from CP.

Same for health or stam...

EDIT:

You can see this becuase the % increases for the Imperial w/ racial passives and full gear were the same as the Breton with no gear and no passives.

The small differences (1,000th of a percent) are due to rounding. With 24 points in Red, both the Breton and Imperial saw a 6% increase in health. 6.0084% vs. 6.0054% which is such a small different that I'm attributing it to rounding error.

Soulac

Bouvin wrote: »

ashlee17 wrote: »

Thanks for sharing your hard work and effort Bouvin much appreciated!

Will racial pasives be even stronger with champion points on top? My poor argonian wants to know if it will be able to hold its ground against an imperial now.

Well, each CP in it's respective consellation (Red for Health, Blue for Magicka, Green for Stamina) adds a % increase.

So if you're base is higher, the % increase is going to give a bigger return.

You can see that with the Imperial example. He got more health points per CP because his base (including racial passives AND armor/enchants) was higher.

So yes, everything counts because, as it is in 1.6.1, the CP bonus is on top of everything else.

So if you want a lot of magicka you can choose the appropriate race and gear and get more gains from CP.

Same for health or stam...

EDIT:

You can see this becuase the % increases for the Imperial w/ racial passives and full gear were the same as the Breton with no gear and no passives.

The small differences (1,000th of a percent) are due to rounding. With 24 points in Red, both the Breton and Imperial say a 6% increase in health. 6.0084% vs. 6.0054% which is such a small different that I'm attributing it to rounding error.

You figured out some kind of formular?
Would like to know how much is possible..

Bouvin

Soulac wrote: »

You figured out some kind of formular?
Would like to know how much is possible..

There are 3,600 CP possible.

You can spend 1,200 in each tree.

Using the formula, it shows you can get about a 54% increase in each stat with the full 1,200 points.

But to gain 3,600 points would require YEARS of STRAIGHT GRINDING. To me, that's not feasible.

Please also consider that the CP system is meant to replace the vet system. So when Vet levels are removed, CP is how your character will progress. So right now you're getting a lot of extra health and stat points from being V14. That simply won't be the case once vet ranks are removed and those gains will be replaced by CP.

So while 54% sounds like a big number, once vet ranks go away it really won't be.

Also, to NOTE, while the formula is really close for the data we have, keep in mind 2 things:

• Once Champion system goes live and we have more points to spend we might refine the formula. It's close, but with more data we can get closer.
• Nothing is final yet. ZOS could change the formula before live or in a future update

When I say "we" please make sure to give credit to @Faugaun for deriving the formula. I just collected the data he did the tough part. Thank you @Faugaun!

@Faugaun has also created an online calculator. Please check them out at:

http://asolutionaday.com/general/elder-scrolls-online-health-calculator-lord-tree-champion/

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-stamina-calculator-tower-tree-champion/

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-magicka-calculator-apprentice-tree-champion/

Also, please check out @Faugaun's other thread which has a comprehensive chart for other things CP at http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150690/champion-system-comprehensive-chart-for-pve#latest

And last but not least, please check out and follow the thread discussing the CP calculator at http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150927/eso-champion-point-calculators-1-6-1

reften

This is really comical imo. This is not a leveling system. Getting a tiny fraction of an increase with each CP...with CPs being pretty hard to get = no leveling system.

No new skills open up when you level, no areas, no new quests, nothing.

To me, there isn't much difference between having CPs and not having CPs. It's a tiny little nugget you get to click every week or so to gain a few pts, out of 1,000's...of an increase.

This is their big update.

Faugaun

@Bouvin it looks like @Soulac‌ is working on a standalone product to help people

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150789/1-6-build-planer#latest

Hopefully his platform or mine or both! Will help players out.

@Soulac I've not played with yours just seen the photos in the thread (I'm weary of .exe files) but it looks very nice. Two thumbs up

Soulac

Bouvin wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

You figured out some kind of formular?
Would like to know how much is possible..

There are 3,600 CP possible.

You can spend 1,200 in each tree.

Using the formula, it shows you can get about a 54% increase in each stat with the full 1,200 points.

But to gain 3,600 points would require YEARS of STRAIGHT GRINDING. To me, that's not feasible.

Please also consider that the CP system is meant to replace the vet system. So when Vet levels are removed, CP is how your character will progress. So right now you're getting a lot of extra health and stat points from being V14. That simply won't be the case once vet ranks are removed and those gains will be replaced by CP.

So while 54% sounds like a big number, once vet ranks go away it really won't be.

Also, to NOTE, while the formula is really close for the data we have, keep in mind 2 things:

• Once Champion system goes live and we have more points to spend we might refine the formula. It's close, but with more data we can get closer.
• Nothing is final yet. ZOS could change the formula before live or in a future update

When I say "we" please make sure to give credit to @Faugaun for deriving the formula. I just collected the data he did the tough part. Thank you @Faugaun!

@Faugaun has also created an online calculator. Please check them out at:

http://asolutionaday.com/general/elder-scrolls-online-health-calculator-lord-tree-champion/

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-stamina-calculator-tower-tree-champion/

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-magicka-calculator-apprentice-tree-champion/

Also, please check out @Faugaun's other thread which has a comprehensive chart for other things CP at http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150690/champion-system-comprehensive-chart-for-pve#latest

And last but not least, please check out and follow the thread discussing the CP calculator at http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150927/eso-champion-point-calculators-1-6-1

Thank you very much!
Currently I´m working on a project, a Build-Planer and need to know the Stat Increase for better stat-calculation. I don´t need it to be 100% sure, even 90% would be enough.
That´s why I´m rly interested in finishing this project with the formular you two made!

To my project: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150788/1-6-build-planer-version-1-0


Edit:
@Faugaun
It´s basically finished, the only thing missing is your formular. (and a Skillplaner if i find the motivation for it.
The .jar file is clean! :P