DEVELOPERS NEED TO RETHINK CONSTELLATION SKILL UNLOCKS

Sharkano

If anyone sits down and actually lists all the "ultra" skills you get while unlocking higher and higher constellation points, you will see that very very few have any real use, and even ones that might have possible use then have absurdly low numeric benefits. This is a completely wrong model for getting people to stay in this game. They need to make the higher (and thus harder to get) skills better and better, not worse and worse. Though the cp constellation concept is ok, to then insult us with a host of bizarre and useless skills we have to work months for is crazy. I have been in this game since day one, and with all the miscues and screw-ups over that time it has made me feel like I was in college, at 2:00 a.m., in the backseat of a camaro with a drunken friend careening through town with no intelligent plan or goal, other to fly hither and thither at full speed and crash into as many trash cans as possible. Can someone at this company please put an MMO adult behind the wheel and drive with some skill? "Wow" is all I can say . . . .

Ahdora

Sharkano wrote: »

with a drunken friend careening through town with no intelligent plan or goal, other to fly hither and thither at full speed and crash into as many trash cans as possible

This instantly made me think of the Simpsons Road Rage video game.

Carry on.

I agree with you, by the way.

Gix

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

Ahdora

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

Naivefanboi

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

ditto i liked the system till i realized it wasnt really an addon. was just getting me back to where i was...thats not how it should work. we want to gain power zos. not work our ass off to get back to par...

AlnilamE

The idea of the CP is that it has diminishing returns. In that light, those perks not being equivalent to winning the DPS lottery makes perfect sense.

AlexDougherty

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

ditto i liked the system till i realized it wasnt really an addon. was just getting me back to where i was...thats not how it should work. we want to gain power zos. not work our ass off to get back to par...

This is a fair point, fortunately I'm not playing a VR14 character, so I don't have as far to climb back

I think people are going to be disappointed with the new system, and we will see a slew of complaints.

Ahdora

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

ditto i liked the system till i realized it wasnt really an addon. was just getting me back to where i was...thats not how it should work. we want to gain power zos. not work our ass off to get back to par...

This is a fair point, fortunately I'm not playing a VR14 character, so I don't have as far to climb back

I think people are going to be disappointed with the new system, and we will see a slew of complaints.

Yeah I'm not V14 either, though I will never be at this point.

I agree that people will be disappointed. You can always expect to see a slew of complaints with new game systems like this, but this time I think the majority of them are actually warranted.

It seems like they may have been too worried about things becoming OP with the CS on top of the vet ranks, but I think they went too far in the wrong direction. With how long it takes to earn a CP, it takes far too long to even get a small advantage from the current constellations.

Gix

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

But, then, the argument is whenever or not we should have the same effectiveness level as before.

I'm not suggesting that everything is (currently) easy, but a lot of the content should be harder.

nerevarine1138

I'm still feeling things out on the PTS, but this indicates to me that they're doing it right. The Champion System is meant to make the endgame about horizontal progression, and making sure that the end abilities aren't game-changers ensures that's the case.

Ahdora

Gix wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

But, then, the argument is whenever or not we should have the same effectiveness level as before.

I'm not suggesting that everything is (currently) easy, but a lot of the content should be harder.

I agree that the content should be harder. I'd just rather see the content itself made harder, rather than making current players less effective.

UPrime

Ahdora wrote: »

I agree that the content should be harder. I'd just rather see the content itself made harder, rather than making current players less effective.

Is't that the same thing though? Sounds like the problem is psychological, rather then mathematical.

Humanistic

Sharkano wrote: »

If anyone sits down and actually lists all the "ultra" skills you get while unlocking higher and higher constellation points, you will see that very very few have any real use, and even ones that might have possible use then have absurdly low numeric benefits. This is a completely wrong model for getting people to stay in this game. They need to make the higher (and thus harder to get) skills better and better, not worse and worse. Though the cp constellation concept is ok, to then insult us with a host of bizarre and useless skills we have to work months for is crazy. I have been in this game since day one, and with all the miscues and screw-ups over that time it has made me feel like I was in college, at 2:00 a.m., in the backseat of a camaro with a drunken friend careening through town with no intelligent plan or goal, other to fly hither and thither at full speed and crash into as many trash cans as possible. Can someone at this company please put an MMO adult behind the wheel and drive with some skill? "Wow" is all I can say . . . .

If it's the wrong model, and you're so educated on the matter, don't you think sending a bug or gameplay report would do more than just posting on the forums?

Game design is not easy, by any means. Especially with a game like this - most people, like yourself, would approach it with a personal bias, which leads to a game that no one likes. I can guarantee you that more than one person worked on it, and the production process was not easy. You might not think it helps anything, so instead of complaining about it - send in a feedback report on why you don't think it helps anything.

If you approach things with a more focused tone, then people might be obliged to take you seriously. But in this case, it's just another forums rant post.

I think the constellations work great, and I like the fact that they are not all combat-oriented.

Nestor

All I know is the character I tried last night on the PTS is weaker than the same character on Live after spending all my CP's. So, I guess we are going backwards.

Sharkano

I am not talking about writing code here, but about the "big picture." If you want people to keep playing, you need more incentive than some "For 120 CP points you unlock skill to get 125 magicka back if you are below 25% health and you hit an opponent with a crit on a heavy attack while he is wearing 3 pieces of light armor" b.s. (hyperbole intended). They could make these at least reasonablye useful, such as, ""For 120 CP points you unlock skill to get 5% more magicka." That's not crazy op, but at least is a nice little benefit for a ton of hard work.

Ahdora

UPrime wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

I agree that the content should be harder. I'd just rather see the content itself made harder, rather than making current players less effective.

Is't that the same thing though? Sounds like the problem is psychological, rather then mathematical.

It's not the same thing to me, as one is giving extra challenge and the other is taking away what people have already worked for and built. I was fine with VR being removed since people would be given CP compensation for those levels, and I wanted horizontal progression. I did have an expectation, however, that players would be on more or less the same footing as pre-1.6 once they spent those allotted points.

If values remain the same as they are in 1.6 on the PTS, though, that's not the case at all. It's a significant downgrade.

Valencer

Sharkano wrote: »

I am not talking about writing code here, but about the "big picture." If you want people to keep playing, you need more incentive than some "For 120 CP points you unlock skill to get 125 magicka back if you are below 25% health and you hit an opponent with a crit on a heavy attack while he is wearing 3 pieces of light armor" b.s. (hyperbole intended). They could make these at least reasonablye useful, such as, ""For 120 CP points you unlock skill to get 5% more magicka." That's not crazy op, but at least is a nice little benefit for a ton of hard work.

No, that's not a good idea. That's an instant "must have" for a lot of people...

NewBlacksmurf

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

I don't think the intent was to make it so that people felt like they HAD to acquire these skills in order to do anything... which was one of the problems of the veteran system. That's what the regular skill system is for.

Besides, whenever something is useful or not is always dependent on the Meta... and the Meta keeps changing.

The problem there is that you HAVE to spend points in the CS just to get back to the same effectiveness level you were already at pre-1.6. That is, unless some serious changes are made between PTS and live launch.

ditto i liked the system till i realized it wasnt really an addon. was just getting me back to where i was...thats not how it should work. we want to gain power zos. not work our ass off to get back to par...

agreed

DeLindsay

Sharkano wrote: »

I am not talking about writing code here, but about the "big picture." If you want people to keep playing, you need more incentive than some "For 120 CP points you unlock skill to get 125 magicka back if you are below 25% health and you hit an opponent with a crit on a heavy attack while he is wearing 3 pieces of light armor" b.s. (hyperbole intended). They could make these at least reasonablye useful, such as, ""For 120 CP points you unlock skill to get 5% more magicka." That's not crazy op, but at least is a nice little benefit for a ton of hard work.

What few realize (due to us having so few CP atm) is that Passives like that actually increase in strength the more points you have in that Constellation. I have no idea what value it'll be once you have 100 or even 400 points in that Constellation but it certainly will be higher than 125 Magicka, which wouldn't even register to you when you have 24-29K Magicka. There are a few that don't seem to change, but I can say even one of the 10 point Passives increased the more points I spent in that Constellation.

ZOS_MichelleA

Hi there, folks. We understand that sometimes game changes will frustrate our players, but we ask that their feedback when sharing their opinions is constructive and respectful. As such, we will be closing this thread for flaming. Thank you for your understanding.