Why is there no Hand to Hand / Unarmed Skill line?

Malpherian

You can fight hand to hand or Unarmed in the game, why is there no skill line for this? There is one in every single other TES game.....

nerevarine1138

Malpherian wrote: »

You can fight hand to hand or Unarmed in the game, why is there no skill line for this? There is one in every single other TES game.....

...except Skyrim, but details, details.

There's been talk of an Unarmed line on these forums, but the main stumbling block is that it can't be as effective/more effective than wielding weapons. So it would have to come with a specialized area for unarmed-only combat.

Sallington

WTB Tavern Brawler skill tree.

Ahdora

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

You can fight hand to hand or Unarmed in the game, why is there no skill line for this? There is one in every single other TES game.....

...except Skyrim, but details, details.

There's been talk of an Unarmed line on these forums, but the main stumbling block is that it can't be as effective/more effective than wielding weapons. So it would have to come with a specialized area for unarmed-only combat.

You could remedy that easily enough by creating items like fistwraps. So you'd still get the stats and set bonuses, etc, that weapons offer.

Gorthax

because these game designers are lazy and like to leave out a lot of the loved stuff from previous elder scrolls games.

nerevarine1138

Sallington wrote: »

WTB Tavern Brawler skill tree.

Exactly.

Allowing a tavern brawl or a fighting ring where Unarmed serves a purpose is good. But making an unarmed skill line that is as damaging as weapon lines just doesn't make sense.

The only reason it worked in the single player series is that balance isn't an issue in that.

Dave2836

In Close Quarter combat, a properly wrapped fist is as deadly as a blunt object such as a baseball bat.

TheShadowScout

Ahdora wrote: »

You could remedy that easily enough by creating items like fistwraps. So you'd still get the stats and set bonuses, etc, that weapons offer.

Well, I for one would say, even with fistwraps, brass knuckles, punch daggers and the like, any unarmed skill line would still have to be less effective then every weapons line. There is a reason people generally use weapons when they go kill each other throughout history...

That said, I for one would love to see an unarmed skill line that's at best half as effective then any weapon and thus just viable for tavern brawls and arena championship matches. Likely including lots of wrestling moves, grunting and testosterone driven feats of muscle!
Possibly with a damage bonus for big, tall and beefy characters, and a defence bonus for small, petite and dodgy characters... and the boni would not even have to be equal, I would like to see a system where my short, skinny thief or mage characters have no chance ever of beating that big, burly nord in fisticuffs...

nerevarine1138

Dave2836 wrote: »

In Close Quarter combat, a properly wrapped fist is as deadly as a blunt object such as a baseball bat.

The trouble being that you need to get close enough to not be clubbed by the bat. There are all kinds of "look at what I could do if these specific circumstances were just so" scenarios. But if you come at me with a knife, I'm going to run, no matter how good I am at punching, and you'll hear the exact same thing from any good self-defense teacher.

Malpherian

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dave2836 wrote: »

In Close Quarter combat, a properly wrapped fist is as deadly as a blunt object such as a baseball bat.

The trouble being that you need to get close enough to not be clubbed by the bat. There are all kinds of "look at what I could do if these specific circumstances were just so" scenarios. But if you come at me with a knife, I'm going to run, no matter how good I am at punching, and you'll hear the exact same thing from any good self-defense teacher.

Having been in the army and had hand to hand training, if you come at me with a knife I'm going to snap your wrist (while simultaneously taking the knife from you) and then stab you with your own knife.

Spiritreaver_ESO

Malpherian wrote: »

You can fight hand to hand or Unarmed in the game, why is there no skill line for this? There is one in every single other TES game.....

As with the elimination of spears from the last few TES games, i figure HTH was nixed/never planned for ESO in an attempt to streamline development. Sadly with ESO being a MMO, there is by necessity no official Construction Set type program that industrious players could use to remedy this dearth of badassery.

MrGhosty

In game where we can summon daedra to fight at our side, or sprout massive wings that reflect damage I think we could allow for some suspension of belief to make unarmed combat a viable option.

They would require extra work with animations, but the weapon coding seems like it could be remedied with some equipped hand wraps. I still maintain that I would love to see some additional weapon types come into play but with that said they need to get the balance for these weapons and skills locked in before they add any additional, potentially destabilizing new skills and weapons.

I was recently watching the Marco Polo show on Netflix and after watching Hundred Eyes do his thang I couldn't help but wish we could do that sort of thing in ESO. Ah well, se la vie

Dave2836

Well the idea being discussed here is that unarmed combat is as effective as armed combat, not including ranged weaponry. So there is applications to the game world. Any fighter would agree to retreat and find more favourable conditions to fight in and the same can be applied to the game.
There is no end all weapon here, every weapon has a pro and a con, and we should not discount skills that have been passed down in the real world for thousands of years before the invention of gun powder.

The olympics has the javelin and discus throw, unarmed combat like boxing and wrestling for a reason, yet people forgot why the olympics was created in the first place.

A disciplined practitioner of the unarmed combat has incredibly tough forearms and incredible leg strength. To say being punched and kicked by such a person in full metal or hard leather wont be effective is ludicrous.

Samadhi

Hand to Hand is my most missed combat style from previous Elder Scrolls titles.

Kevinmon

The technology just isn't there yet.

DDuke

Hand-to-Hand was perfectly viable in previous Elder Scrolls titles and in fact there are multiple references in lore to several Martial Arts styles in Tamriel.

I don't see why this couldn't be a viable skill line in the future.

Karnus

Srsly who wouldn't want to punch a high elf.

Panda244

Because punching a DK in full plate, or the Mantikora. Would do nothing more than simply annoy them.

Unarmed is a joke. Anything not humanoid would laugh at you and bite your hands off.

Dave2836

Panda244 wrote: »

Because punching a DK in full plate, or the Mantikora. Would do nothing more than simply annoy them.

Unarmed is a joke. Anything not humanoid would laugh at you and bite your hands off.

Well, technically taking an arrow to the knee will ultimately end your sprinting potential, and taking a fireball head on should dry out your lungs making breathing quite difficult... but I don't see that stopping the mobs or us in the game.

DDuke

Panda244 wrote: »

Because punching a DK in full plate, or the Mantikora. Would do nothing more than simply annoy them.

Unarmed is a joke. Anything not humanoid would laugh at you and bite your hands off.

Pfft.

I punched Dagoth Ur & Vivec unconscious in Morrowind, a DK or a Mantikora should be no problem.

Valymer

As can be easily seen in this video, in real life bare fists can be just as strong as weapons--it all depends on who is doing the punching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QJ3UCPw_-A

Shunravi

Valymer wrote: »

As can be easily seen in this video, in real life bare fists can be just as strong as weapons--it all depends on who is doing the punching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QJ3UCPw_-A

But my body isn't made of rubber! I just have command of amazing magical forces! oh wait.....

Humanistic

Make it for brawling only (inns, taverns, some quests, or just be able to pick a fight with randoms). Then tie it in with the Justice system.

Gemseed

On the note of weapon skills...

I would slap a baby if we could get a 1H weapon skill. No shield, just one handed. Sort of like how in Lineage 2 you could use a shield in your off-hand for added physical defense, or keep it empty for +8 evasion bonus (more popular amongst medium armor classes).

Gidorick

an unarmed skill line would be VERY welcomed.

Gothren

there is such a skill line. enter your inventory right click your weapon, then select unequip weapon. enjoy.

kewl

Eventually you'll get to pay for it.

Malpherian

I'm still curious about this.

NGP

Werewolf is what you're looking to be.