Am I the only one who thinks Vampires and Werewolves should be strong?

LionheartRichard

So many people want every part of the game to be completely equal and I feel like that detracts from the game. Being a Vampire or a Werewolf should cause your character to become more powerful. Who wants to be a hunter of the night if they are no more powerful than everyone else?

Rather than just nerfing them all so they're all on equal footing, I feel like it would be better for them to have weaknesses for players to exploit (like in the lore and like it is now, even though they are getting more and more nerfed as time goes by.) Vampires and werewolves should have an edge over humans, but they should also have a weakness that humans will be able to take advantage of (isn't that the whole point of the Fighter's Guild skill line?)

So many people complain how they are OP, but who ever heard of a Vampire that was no more powerful than a human? I hope the devs find a way to make the game balanced, but completely not even.

EDIT: Please read before jumping to conclusions. I'm not saying vamps and ww should be OP. I'm saying that there should be pros and cons to being a human, vamp or ww. Vamps and ww should have greater strengths than humans, but also greater weaknesses that players can exploit (Many people suggested locking out fighter's guild tree so only humans can access it, and buffing it.) The game should be balanced, but not completely equal, if that makes sense.

Amsel_McKay

Make them really powerful and KoS in all cities....

rawne1980b16_ESO

Vamps were incredibly powerful at one point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBlMayv12M

starkerealm

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Make them really powerful and KoS in all cities....

Supposedly... wolfing out will be a KoS crime. Stage four vampirism will be a KoS crime.

LionheartRichard

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Make them really powerful and KoS in all cities....

They should have a way to disguise themselves though. Recently fed vampires and non transformed werewolves should be able to travel whereever they please, like in the lore.

Amsel_McKay

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Make them really powerful and KoS in all cities....

They should have a way to disguise themselves though. Recently fed vampires and non transformed werewolves should be able to travel whereever they please, like in the lore.

Everyone in cities these days have white faces and look like vampires... and should be KoS and tagged for PvP... A WW in form should be KoS as well. They can have a way to disquise themselves but it cant be easy or cheap... If they have great abilities there needs to be huge consequences

LionheartRichard

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Make them really powerful and KoS in all cities....

They should have a way to disguise themselves though. Recently fed vampires and non transformed werewolves should be able to travel whereever they please, like in the lore.

Everyone in cities these days have white faces and look like vampires... and should be KoS and tagged for PvP... A WW in form should be KoS as well. They can have a way to disquise themselves but it cant be easy or cheap... If they have great abilities there needs to be huge consequences

Maybe stage 1 vamps should looks completely normal, if a little pale? That would be a good disguise.

Lithium Flower

Agreed completely. Fighter's Guild tree should be buffed a little to counter them better and be unavailable for vampires or werewolves to use themselves.

LionheartRichard

Lithium Flower wrote: »

Agreed completely. Fighter's Guild tree should be buffed a little to counter them better and be unavailable for vampires or werewolves to use themselves.

That's how I feel. Rather than keep nerfing the ww and vamps, they should just buff the Fighter's Guild.

Amsel_McKay

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Lithium Flower wrote: »

Agreed completely. Fighter's Guild tree should be buffed a little to counter them better and be unavailable for vampires or werewolves to use themselves.

That's how I feel. Rather than keep nerfing the ww and vamps, they should just buff the Fighter's Guild.

Then if you are a WW or Vampire you cant be in the Fighters guild sounds about right

thelordoffelines

Lithium Flower wrote: »

Agreed completely. Fighter's Guild tree should be buffed a little to counter them better and be unavailable for vampires or werewolves to use themselves.

Fighters guild skills work great against vampires. Just pop expert hunter before you fight them and you'll wreck them. And if you're using camouflaged hunter you can do some serious damage from stealth.

Leeric

Lithium Flower wrote: »

Agreed completely. Fighter's Guild tree should be buffed a little to counter them better and be unavailable for vampires or werewolves to use themselves.

Exactly I don't think they need kos but if your a vamp or ww you shouldn't have access to fighters guild abilities, and obviously they would need to be buffed.

TheShadowScout

Personally I agree that vampirtes and werewwolves should not be of equal power, but stronger then other characters... but also have corresponding weaknesses. And not only vulvnerability to fighters guild skills.

Being attacked by guards (both justice city guard and cyrodil PvP guards) when in monstrous form would be a good start. They -are- monsters after all, feared and hated by all goodly folk. Also, vendors sould refuse to speak with them, calling the guards instead as soon as they spot their monstrous nature (duh) and crafting stations should be unusable in cities due to guard interference, and completely for transformed werewolves (paws?).

For vampires, I would also like to see a disguise allowing them to look human (Like count ravenwatch in the rivenspire questline, when you meet him in shornhelm) - that gets broken as soon as they use any vampire skill, feed, or go past stage one. Non-disguised vampires should have a chance of being identified and attacked by the guards dependent on their vamp level... say, 20% at 1, 40% at 2, 80% at 3 and automatic at 4. The stages should last a bit longer though, half an hour for stage one is a bit tight for a vampire to do their business in a city if that disguise idea was implemented. Alternately, added feedings could get a vamp added time, say, adding 30 minutes in stage 1 for every feed while already in stage 1?
And also, some effect of daylight. It does not have to be the old "sun burns to ashes", the traditional story Dracula had him walk unhurt in daylight, he just lost all his supernatural powers... something of the sort that weakened vampires in ESO daytime (while keeping all their drawbacks) would work fine, and make them want to be around at nighttime only (...making an alt called "Rendfield" to do ESO daytime playing, perhaps? )

For werewolves... I would like to see some back to the roots as well. Moon phases dependent. No transformation during new moon nights, involuntary transformation during the whole of the full moon night. Sounds OP? It would be, but remember... during those times, PvP would be a huge pain in the furry bum due to your own sides guards attacking you left and right, same in cities, vendors and crafting would be unavailable, all a WW could do during those nights was kill overland mobs until they were sick of it (or their inventory filled up and wasting further drops felt too painful...). Oh, and they should be restricted from grouping with anyone but other werewolves! Now we know why they lock themselves in the cellar on full moon nights and play an alt, yes?

And there were rumours about a "hunter" skill line being implemented someday that had more anti-monster effects then the fighters guild currently provides... stuff like detecting them in disguise and whatnot?

With those drawbacks, playing these would become somewhat of a pain, and thus justify increasing their power level...

starkerealm

Lithium Flower wrote: »

Agreed completely. Fighter's Guild tree should be buffed a little to counter them better and be unavailable for vampires or werewolves to use themselves.

HOW DARE DAEDRIC WORSHIPING SCUM SNEAK INTO THE FIGHTER'S GUILD... oh, wait...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I agree that vampirtes and werewwolves should not be of equal power, but stronger then other characters... but also have corresponding weaknesses. And not only vulvnerability to fighters guild skills.

You mean like a weakness to poison. One that leads to archers being able to wreck them at range with little to no warning? Yeah, that would be a fantastic idea... oh, wait.

Forestd16b14_ESO

They are strong. But thanks to no life gankers finding and making OP builds around them make them OP. So because of that ZoS has to bring back there power so that those OP builds don't murder every one they see to the point were those OP builds don't need you to be a vampire any more. So yes as much as i hate gank-pires they are suppost to be slightly more powerful than a mortal but not these gods the ganks made them out to be.

Grao

I can't speak for vampires, but after the changes on 1.5 Werewolves are reasonably strong with the proper build, not to mention they are nearly impossible to kill without heavy CCing.

Of course there are still bugs and at least for PvE, using the werewolf ult is a mistake as it offers nearly no advantage to your raid, only giving a slight increase on your own DPS.

Vizier

Ya, vampires are powerful and more powerful than the general populace or even your average adventurer, however, players are not your average adventurers. TES is stage for mortals that can and do defeat Gods so it's not beyond the scope of imagination that the player community might have the means to readily slay those nasty undead and shape-shifters.

You want Godlike Vampires go play Skyrim. For ESO balance is more important.

badmojo0777b14_ESO

if you make them more powerful, then everyone would have to play them, destroys MMO game balance. vampires and werewolves are cool, but they hav eto be a choice, not an advantage or the game is broken

Messy1

Vamps should be incredibly strong at night like all their abilities get like a 15% bonus and during the day they should be weaker.

Werewolves should be very strong in packs like they are currently, bit also they need to be able to stay in WW form longer.

Chelos

"Am I the only one who thinks Vampires and Werewolves should be strong?"
Translates to: I want an uber-charakter that can trash all the rest.

Just doesn't work in an MMO, especially in a PvP enviroment you will at least need the semblance of balanced character "classes".

If Werewolves and ticks were as powerful as most stories depict them everyone would play one and ESO would turn into World of Darkness Online.

TheShadowScout

That is a issue, yes. I would not want to see ESO go WoD online...

So any power would have to be balanced. I just would want to see more playstyle-altering balances in addition to just "oh, take 50% extra poison/flame damage".

And I suppose some people would want an über-character to trash them all. Though that is why there should be balances to make sure that does not happen...

(and in case any wonder, no , my main characters are neither werewolf nor vampire, and won't ever go there for backstory reasons )

PlagueMonk

The problem with the OPs line of reasoning is, what exactly do I do if I do NOT want to be a Vamp or WW? If they were stronger as you suggest then someone would be gimping themselves to not be one which is not fair if that was not part of my character concept.

So right now they are a little stronger with roughly equal weaknesses.

I would be perfectly fine allowing them to be significantly stronger IF i had a path to a similar strength level that did NOT entail being a Vamp or WW.

- Give the Fighters guild special passives equal to the vamp or WW.
- You are kicked out of the Ftrs Guild if you turn vamp or WW immediately and are not allowed back in until you cure yourself.

That way you can have the advantages of only one at any time.

kkampaseb17_ESO

Let's see how the OP feels when everyone is one (Vamp or WW). Not to mention when the PvE game is balanced on everyone being one.

PvP won't be an issue since it will be a choice for everyone to either be godmode or gimp. Cause that's exactly what is hidden (and not very well) from what the OP suggests. And no...some fighter abilities won't cut it unless they are like the bugged Silver Bolts....now that was fun, wasn't it?

Making something striking powerful detracts from diversification that is a key component of MMOs/RPGs.

BBSooner

LionheartRichard wrote: »

So many people want every part of the game to be completely equal and I feel like that detracts from the game. Being a Vampire or a Werewolf should cause your character to become more powerful. Who wants to be a hunter of the night if they are no more powerful than everyone else?

Rather than just nerfing them all so they're all on equal footing, I feel like it would be better for them to have weaknesses for players to exploit (like in the lore and like it is now, even though they are getting more and more nerfed as time goes by.) Vampires and werewolves should have an edge over humans, but they should also have a weakness that humans will be able to take advantage of (isn't that the whole point of the Fighter's Guild skill line?)

So many people complain how they are OP, but who ever heard of a Vampire that was no more powerful than a human? I hope the devs find a way to make the game balanced, but completely not even.

If they are unequivocally stronger than being human then there would be no reason *not* to be one if you want to be strong. It would be like the first 6 months of ESO in Cyrodiil - vast majority of players being vampires.

MornaBaine

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

LionheartRichard wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Make them really powerful and KoS in all cities....

They should have a way to disguise themselves though. Recently fed vampires and non transformed werewolves should be able to travel whereever they please, like in the lore.

Everyone in cities these days have white faces and look like vampires... and should be KoS and tagged for PvP... A WW in form should be KoS as well. They can have a way to disquise themselves but it cant be easy or cheap... If they have great abilities there needs to be huge consequences

And as soon as we get some great and powerful abilities again I'll be all for this. Hell, give me back my speed stacking Night's Silence set, which didn't affect combat AT ALL, and I'll be happy!

Shadesofkin

I've no issue with vampires and werewolves being strong...so long as they can be one-shotted by the Silver Bolt skill like NPC daedra and undead.

MornaBaine

Vampires and werewolves need to be physically stronger than humans/mer. They already HAVE additional weaknesses in the form of severe weaknesses to fire and poison, respectively. So right now they are "balanced" though I feel werewolves SHOULD get their passives even in human form.

Jahosefat

There was a point in ESO's life where nearly everyone in pvp was a vampire; which slowly evolved into large groups of vampires spamming impulse in a blob (to generate ultimate) to keep batswarm up. Essentially an aoe death train of vampires. I'm glad I don't see that as much anymore

technohic

Jahosefat wrote: »

There was a point in ESO's life where nearly everyone in pvp was a vampire; which slowly evolved into large groups of vampires spamming impulse in a blob (to generate ultimate) to keep batswarm up. Essentially an aoe death train of vampires. I'm glad I don't see that as much anymore

Yeah, i think if they go back to that, then fighters guild stuff should also get an even bigger buff. I actually have some in use now along with Vampires bane so it could be fun.

Then again; you could wind up with vampires using fighters guild abilities fighting each other in what looks like a no-scope snipe marathon.

grimjim398

Yes, you are the only one who has ever had this thought. It has never been expressed before. You are unique and new.

Theosis

there needs to be a vampire hideout, and a werewolf one as well if they go kill on site.. with a bank