Just change cloak already

Lynx7386 · January 2015

It's obvious that zos can't get it to work properly in its current form, so why not change it entirely?

Shadow cloak:
Surround yourself in shadows, providing immunity to all damage and effects for 2.5 seconds and granting hidden for the duration.

Same morphs as current.

Full immunity for the duration means no premature failures due to whatever effects, and makes it a proper defensive skill for nightblades.

TheShadowScout · January 2015

Personally I would hope that if the cloak was changed, they'd also make it an on/off toggle, constant magica drain while active skill to be more useful sneaking past mobs... nowadays you often have to time it -just- right to get past an stealth detection range...

The rest I agree with, this function would seem far less prone to fizzling liike it does now!

Satiar · January 2015

Why do people think one of the best class skills in game is useless?

Lynx7386 · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

Why do people think one of the best class skills in game is useless?

Because it doesn't work the way it should most of the time.

Satiar · January 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Satiar wrote: »

Why do people think one of the best class skills in game is useless?

Because it doesn't work the way it should most of the time.

I beg to differ, it's one of the best damage mitigation skills in the game.

Lynx7386 · January 2015

Something tells me you don't pvp

Satiar · January 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Something tells me you don't pvp

My alliance war rank says otherwise.

@Teargrants‌ please inform the troops, there has been a development. I cannot lead tonight's glorious raid because I apparently don't pvp

Cody · January 2015

I think the skill is broken. It often lasts 0.5/2.9 seconds, making it almost impossible to use whether as a combat or retreat skill.

It needs to be fixed.

Cody · January 2015

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

Derra · January 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's obvious that zos can't get it to work properly in its current form, so why not change it entirely?

Shadow cloak:
Surround yourself in shadows, providing immunity to all damage and effects for 2.5 seconds and granting hidden for the duration.

Same morphs as current.

Full immunity for the duration means no premature failures due to whatever effects, and makes it a proper defensive skill for nightblades.

Yeah if they implement it that way they can just go forth and add the nerf of bolt escape onto that and double it. It would still be the most overpowered ability in the game.

Satiar · January 2015

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

Lynx7386 · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

The devs have confirmed that it is not working as intended, there's no l2p involved here.

Satiar · January 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Satiar wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

The devs have confirmed that it is not working as intended, there's no l2p involved here.

Devs confirm a lot of things. I use it to great success and fight NBs who do the same. In good hands it is extremely effective which is why I want no buff and maintain it is a L2P issue.

kijima · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Something tells me you don't pvp

My alliance war rank says otherwise.

@Teargrants‌ please inform the troops, there has been a development. I cannot lead tonight's glorious raid because I apparently don't pvp

Typical! You dirty PvE'er

Cody · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

you don't understand...

it lasts 0.5 or less seconds, out of the full 2.9 seconds.... the tooltip is either lying or the skill is broken. detect pots have nothing to do with it.

if you can still manage to use it effectively, well good for you. I envy you. however, not everyone has the mana to spam it relentlessly to get it to work for them.

Akhratos · January 2015

Total immunity, toggled stealth...

Keep the good advices. If you cry loud enough some dev might be stupid enough to do such changes because sometimes it breaks on weapon swap...

Nijjion · January 2015

You can't have immunity + stealth that would be OP as *** haha.

Make it work with the 3+ negative cleanse and that should balance it out. It lasts 0.5 secs @Cody because you got too many dots on yourself even with the cleanse. (Though this is bugged sort of at the moment I've heard?).

Satiar · January 2015

Cody wrote: »

show previous quotes

Satiar wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

you don't understand...

it lasts 0.5 or less seconds, out of the full 2.9 seconds.... the tooltip is either lying or the skill is broken. detect pots have nothing to do with it.

if you can still manage to use it effectively, well good for you. I envy you. however, not everyone has the mana to spam it relentlessly to get it to work for them.

first, it does last full 2.9 if you time it's usage right. second, I'm full stamina, so having less than 1600 magica I have to be careful, cannot spam it at all.

DeLindsay · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

The devs have confirmed that it is not working as intended, there's no l2p involved here.

Devs confirm a lot of things. I use it to great success and fight NBs who do the same. In good hands it is extremely effective which is why I want no buff and maintain it is a L2P issue.

So when I as a NB can Lotus Fan you from ~20 meters away WHILE you are stealthed using Dark Cloak you don't see that as a broken ability? I laugh at other NB's in PvP when they use it because I just Lotus Fan them to de-stealth them and when they try and use it again the bleed Lotus Fan put on them immediately re-breaks it. The ability is supposed to remove harmful effects on the NB and put them into Stealth for up to 2.9 sec, it does neither reliably atm.

EDIT: I don't want it buffed either, just fixed once and for all so that it works 100% as the tooltip says it's supposed to.

Lynnessa · January 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I would hope that if the cloak was changed, they'd also make it an on/off toggle, constant magica drain while active skill to be more useful sneaking past mobs... nowadays you often have to time it -just- right to get past an stealth detection range...

The rest I agree with, this function would seem far less prone to fizzling liike it does now!

I actually like having to time it--for me, it adds to immersion.

Say you're a mage--you can make yourself invisible, but it takes a lot of concentration to do so. Like a spell that you have to constantly cast on yourself. If your concentration is broken, you lose your invisibility or don't become completely invisible.

Cody · January 2015

Nijjion wrote: »

You can't have immunity + stealth that would be OP as *** haha.

Make it work with the 3+ negative cleanse and that should balance it out. It lasts 0.5 secs @Cody because you got too many dots on yourself even with the cleanse. (Though this is bugged sort of at the moment I've heard?).

there will be times I activate it and it just shuts off for no reason..... heck I once had it shut off as soon as I activated it... its total BS.

I don't understand why people think its ok for the ability to not last the full duration that it should. But people have different opinions on it.

It may or may not be bugged, but either way the ability only lasts 0.5/2.9 seconds at least half the time I use it. It needs to be fixed. I don't want the timer boosted, or a 3 second window of total immunity to everything, I just...want...it...to.....last....the....full...duration. Why is that too much to ask satiar and everyone else defending its current state?? Why is me wanting the ability to work like it should too much to ask??

/sigh. this community worries me sometimes:(

alright, im done, ill let y'all argue over it, I already argued with satiar over this, and it will only lead to the same conclusion if I do it again.

Varicite · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

The devs have confirmed that it is not working as intended, there's no l2p involved here.

Devs confirm a lot of things. I use it to great success and fight NBs who do the same. In good hands it is extremely effective which is why I want no buff and maintain it is a L2P issue.

Are you.. implying that not only is Shadow Cloak not broken, but that the devs are lying about it still having issues...?

.....

Satiar · January 2015

Varicite wrote: »

show previous quotes

Satiar wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

The devs have confirmed that it is not working as intended, there's no l2p involved here.

Devs confirm a lot of things. I use it to great success and fight NBs who do the same. In good hands it is extremely effective which is why I want no buff and maintain it is a L2P issue.

Are you.. implying that not only is Shadow Cloak not broken, but that the devs are lying about it still having issues...?

.....

I think when people complain hard enough, suddenly things are "not working as intended". And considering how I use and have seen Cloak used, I assume that it is not broken. In good hands it functions perfectly.

Akhratos · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

show previous quotes

Satiar wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and idk how its a damage mitigation skill... multiple times I Have still been hit by both ranged and melee attacks after using it.

If someone wastes an detect pot, yeah you'll get hit. That's when you dodge roll once or twice, and then return to your regularly scheduled rotation.

I seriously worry that NBs are going to get Cloak changed with all with QQ, either into something that doesn't have its current flexibility or into some overpowered monstrosity. It's seriously done, this is a l2p issue

The devs have confirmed that it is not working as intended, there's no l2p involved here.

Devs confirm a lot of things. I use it to great success and fight NBs who do the same. In good hands it is extremely effective which is why I want no buff and maintain it is a L2P issue.

So when I as a NB can Lotus Fan you from ~20 meters away WHILE you are stealthed using Dark Cloak you don't see that as a broken ability? I laugh at other NB's in PvP when they use it because I just Lotus Fan them to de-stealth them and when they try and use it again the bleed Lotus Fan put on them immediately re-breaks it. The ability is supposed to remove harmful effects on the NB and put them into Stealth for up to 2.9 sec, it does neither reliably atm.

EDIT: I don't want it buffed either, just fixed once and for all so that it works 100% as the tooltip says it's supposed to.

I dont see your point.

Using an aoe skill straight away after your enemy has just vanished in front of you has been the usual strategy since the first time I met a stealth mechanic in a mmorpg.

Why do you feel you should not be taken out of stealth when you are being stabbed in the back or burnt in a fire ring?

If the skill sometimes fails to cleanse the dots (it has a max) then its obvious it requires a fix, not arguing that, but to read that they should make a toggleable stealth or change it to give you total immunity, or not be taken out of stealth even if you are damaged...

If you dont want your enemy to break your stealth then time a stun before you pretend to vanish or wait to be out of his range.

Nijjion · January 2015

If it lasted the full duration and you couldn't get broken out of it then it would be a free get out of jail card for any fight you get into and *** ups you make of your awareness. (as it can be spammed, most NBs seem to get the full duration when against me at least)

Both Sorcs and DKs have dealt blows to skills that help with survivability think NBs will have to suck this up and play how it plays at the moment.

eliisra · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

I think when people complain hard enough, suddenly things are "not working as intended". And considering how I use and have seen Cloak used, I assume that it is not broken. In good hands it functions perfectly.

In all fairness, devs have stated multiple times that Shadow Cloak breaks when not supposed to. It's not something the whiny NB mafia came up with, to manipulate gullible developers lol. Skill isn't working according to the tool-tip info, like many other skills in ESO. That doesn't means these skills, Cloak included, never works ofc.

But devs also said there's balancing issues with Cloak. If it did everything people here wanted or expected it to, you be looking at the best skill in the game. Being 100% invisible and untargetable at any point in PvP, only one key stroke away than dish out a stealth attack, would be pretty OP.

f047ys3v3n · January 2015

Shadow cloak does not work when the following apply:

A DOT is on you. (funny since the tip says it removes negative effects)

Any enemy attack is in process of being launched on you. (you would be better off roll dodging, no?)

Any CC is active on you. (funny since the tip says it removes negative effects)

There is an AOE on you. (I believe at one time they stated this was going to stop breaking cloak but still do damage but that never happened.)

Any enemy uses one of the abilities such as crushing shock that are bugged and target people in stealth or hidden and are therefore nightblade finders. (patch notes mistakenly said this was fixed but it is obviously not)

Someone uses a detect pot (this is actually intended and presumably was supposed to be the magic balance the class with invisibility button.)

Yes, if shadow cloak did what was advertized it would be very powerful, probably even as powerful as other class making skills such as reflective scales, streak, or blazing shield. Well, streak and blazing shield anyway.

Realistically, if it was functional it would require detect pots to balance it or some magica costing detect ability would have to be added to a general skill like such as mages. Those are probably the ways to balance it in the way that having piercing mark bypass reflective scales would be the way to balance that instead of this asinine 4 reflect solution they have proposed. Wouldn't that be neat with nightblades becoming the dk slaying class just as dk's are the everything slaying class. It would also be neat if dk's were weak at range in this way given how close they like to be when burning their victims to death. This kind of *** for tat balancing has never been done in ESO. Instead general Nerf's are the norm and little thought is put in to punch counter punch combinations.

I don't know what to tell you guys except that right now all dark cloak is good for is draining your own manna and removing the burning effect from a fire ballista that hit you. If you want to make it easy for someone to kill you hit your manna drain button a bunch of times and they will do the rest.

Enjoy ESO for what it is. Beautiful worlds filled with great lore, interesting quests, great voice acting, and hours of fun. Avoid PVP and the balance blind mutton head in chief that "runs" it. Either that or become a DK dunmer vampire wearing light armor with a sword and sheild and enjoy your near invincibility while killing any fool with any other build.

Satiar · January 2015

eliisra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Satiar wrote: »

I think when people complain hard enough, suddenly things are "not working as intended". And considering how I use and have seen Cloak used, I assume that it is not broken. In good hands it functions perfectly.

In all fairness, devs have stated multiple times that Shadow Cloak breaks when not supposed to. It's not something the whiny NB mafia came up with, to manipulate gullible developers lol. Skill isn't working according to the tool-tip info, like many other skills in ESO. That doesn't means these skills, Cloak included, never works ofc.

But devs also said there's balancing issues with Cloak. If it did everything people here wanted or expected it to, you be looking at the best skill in the game. Being 100% invisible and untargetable at any point in PvP, only one key stroke away than dish out a stealth attack, would be pretty OP.

I don't know if it's functioning as intended or not, but I am wary of what the skill might look like after any "fixes".

Currently, Dark Cloak reliably removes dots and (assuming you're not so silly as to be standing inside AOE) gets you to stealth for 2.9 seconds. You are given the armor and spell resistance at the finish, reliably.

And..... I'm not sure what else people want it to do. As it stands you can use it to temporarily disengage from a fight by dodge rolling and than hitting Cloak. I find this to be especially useful when fighting DKs in close combat, a single dodge roll will generally remove you from their ground and point blank AOEs and a single activation of cloak removes all dots and gives you the full 2.9 seconds of invisibility.

As far as I'm concerned, that's one of the best possible mitigation skills in the game. 2.9 seconds, for a tiny bit of magica even my full stam build can handle, that gives you nearly 3 seconds of time where you are not taking damage, you are not losing resources to blocking, you are not allowing enemies to get position on you. 3 seconds where you force an enemy to be passive and wait for you, or waste time spamming aoe for you.

I admit you can't just hit it and reliably get your effect, you have to time it. You have to put yourself in a position where your spent magica will give you the best return. If I have to use it in a pinch, I can hit it to get armor and cause immediate attacks to miss, at the expense of the 3 seconds of mitigation a longer set up would have gotten me.

I really just don't know what people want here. It's an incredibly flexible skill, and when used properly makes Nightblades ridiculously dangerous and difficult to fight. It just shouldnt be getting the QQ it's currently getting.

And for those who want to tell me it's not good for escaping, I'll toss out some names people on the NA server might know. If you PvP on Thornblade NA you've probably run into Murdo, or King of Thieves, or Asian Mayhem, or Plesa. Players like that are fantastic at using the skill as an escape mechanism, and I don't see how anyone could fight them and than claim the skill doesn't work as a disengage either. It requires a combination of skills to pull off, but Dark Cloak is integral.

So as far as I'm concerned, it's a skill you can use in a number of ways. On a melee build like mine it works as the center of the build, my main mitigation and primary means of keeping pressure on my enemies. Or, you can run it in conjunction with certain skills on a gank build to obtain huge burst with amazing escape potential.

I gotta say, I sometimes feel like an *** putting that L2P out there, but I've seen this skill work, and work really really well. I see players consistently make it work for them, I've seen it work for me and make my builds tick. At a certain point, it's simply on players to make a good skill work for them as it is, rather than complain abut the things it can't do. I can't imagine this skill getting buffed.

DeLindsay · January 2015

Akhratos wrote: »

I dont see your point.

Using an aoe skill straight away after your enemy has just vanished in front of you has been the usual strategy since the first time I met a stealth mechanic in a mmorpg.

Why do you feel you should not be taken out of stealth when you are being stabbed in the back or burnt in a fire ring?

If the skill sometimes fails to cleanse the dots (it has a max) then its obvious it requires a fix, not arguing that, but to read that they should make a toggleable stealth or change it to give you total immunity, or not be taken out of stealth even if you are damaged...

If you dont want your enemy to break your stealth then time a stun before you pretend to vanish or wait to be out of his range.

I don't think you understand how Lotus Fan actually works. The NB using it has to have a TARGET to jump to, THEN it causes an AOE Slow/Bleed. When a NB is stealthed via dark Cloak they are NOT supposed to be targetable, yet I do it all the time. I cannot however Lotus Fan jump to a Vampire using Elusive Mist. I also cannot use ANY other targeted abilities on a NB using Dark Cloak like Crippling Grasp, Funnel Health, etc. I could spam AOE and hope to damage the player if they're still nearby though. So how do you explain that I can't use specific targeted abilities on a NB using Dark Cloak but I can teleport to them and de-stealth them via Lotus Fan and the Bleed caused by it then immediately de-stealths that NB if they try and recloak up.

ZoS has verified multiple times that they know the ability is not working as intended yet people sit here on threads like this saying "HAHA, L2P noob" when it's nothing to do with Players' acumen or ability. I'm not of the camp that it should be a toggle for immunity, I just want it to work exactly as the tooltip says 100% of the time. And I use Srendarr for debuff tracking and can 100% guarantee you that Dark Cloak doesn't even purge the (up to 4) DoTs like it says it's supposed to all the time. It also used to break if the NB themselves had a DoT out on another Player and people were STILL saying "L2P noob" in comments, even though ZoS verified that wasn't supposed to happen.

Simple fact is you have 2 sides to this issue. The Nightblades who are tired of having broken abilities since launch. And then you have the rest who are tired of hearing NB's complain about having broken abilities since launch. The latter just ends up devolving into a "L2P noob" mentality instead of actually saying something constructive or supporting those of us who have put up with broken Class abilities since day 1.

Varicite · January 2015

Your Cloak still breaks when YOU use certain DoTs against OTHER players. This is broken.

Your Cloak still breaks against certain non-AoE targeted projectiles that are launched in the second that you use it, causing it to break immediately if you are unlucky. This is broken.

Dark Cloak does not remove all DoT effects, though this is unspecified by the very basic tooltip. This may be intended, or it might be broken. Who knows, ZOS sure hasn't said anything about it in the past year.

Yes, there are a few workarounds (don't use certain DoTs, pray nobody ever uses a skill at the same time as you, or just flat out don't use it), and yes it does work a decent amount of the time now.

This is not a L2P issue, no matter how much you may wish to make it so. The skill is mechanically broken for what it's intended to do. It's really just that simple.

I can make it work too, and I can even use it to great effect the majority of the time. I've posted previously about the little tips and tricks to getting the most out of your Cloak when it was in an even more broken state than it is now.

Doesn't change a thing. It doesn't work when it's supposed to all of the time.

That means it's broken.

Teargrants · January 2015

Satiar wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Something tells me you don't pvp

My alliance war rank says otherwise.

@Teargrants‌ please inform the troops, there has been a development. I cannot lead tonight's glorious raid because I apparently don't pvp

I think I'm convinced by all the forum blades, they're right you're just a figment of my imagination. The months of duo ganking was really just me and my shadow (which I named Auohildr Hjoras). And to think, here I was believing you were so awesome when it was just me all along.