Selenes Web - The Secret Of Longclaw?

Ashtaris

A little background first. We have a casual group of four family members who have been doing the normal Undaunted pledges, so we are not hard core gamers by any stretch For the most part, we have enjoyed doing the pledges and although they are frustrating at times, we have been able to do most of them since they started their wacky scaling, but not all. Selene's Web is one of those, especially that wicked archer Longclaw and his lion minions. We don't have any problems taking down the first four lions, but when Longclaw brings out his ghost lions, we usually wipe within a short time. Besides trying to improve by l2p, what can we use to take him down? We have tried doing CC by rooting the lions but that doesn't seem to help. I think our tank was using Burning Talons and my Sorc was trying to use Shattering Prison and Rune prison but without much luck.

It just seems that with him shooting a barrage of lethal arrows, plus trying to keep his lions under control, plus trying to avoid those stupid traps, AND take down the boss at the same time, it was just too overwhelming for us.

So for those of you who are the professionals, what's the secret? We are willing to learn!

Thanks guys!

Merlin13KAGL

Traps are a pain, but manageable. If you sneak when you first enter, you can disarm several in the main area before the fight starts. Have everyone take part in this - it helps.

Round 1 (normal cats), don't even worry about doing damage to the boss, wait until he comes down.

Round 2:

CC's, talon's requires you to be close. Shattering doesn't work as well as Restraining prison (you get more time with them slowed, even more if you have the points in the passive that extends time for DM skills, and it also doubles as a minor self heal - again with the passive enabled) Negate will drop them all for at least 9 seconds.

Ice staves can help here too. Wall of elements (either morph) will slow them and help you keep some distance. Heavy attacks, as well.

The kitties are not immune to knockback (enter Fire Destructive Touch). Volc Rune (Mages guild line) helps as well.

Again, wall of elements is useful here, as you can direct it in front of you.

Rune prison is ok for a couple at most - anything anything breaks RP, so anyone is AoEing, you're likely to waste the spell.

Weakness to elements (only one of you needs this) will help the boss go down faster. Siphon, if you're using restro, will give everyone some free heals when attacking the boss. Anytime you're not healing/casting, use a full heavy for resource return.

Beyond that, avoid Longclaw's AoE posion circles and chip away. If you can lay down the occasional DoT (Damage over time - Impulse, or the AoE from the Bow line) and get the boss in there as well, then you're getting double duty.

The main thing with the spirit cats is that they continue to spawn, so don't overfocus your efforts eliminating them.

Kill a couple of them to take the edge off, then restrain/rune prison, etc.

Knock back if they get to close and you can't take the hits, Volc Rune if they're overwhelming your party members.

Once the boss dies, they die with him.

Keep moving (in the areas your disabled the traps) and you'll be fine. (You can continue to disable more of them by sneaking, if you find yourself free of aggro from time to time.)

Last thing, Daedric mines and Crystal Frags (use on insta cast only) will also do damage and disable temporarily, plus provide small self heal. They are generally cost prohibitive, but can be added if you're still having trouble dealing with the spirit cats.

Try some of these out, and let us know how you fare.

Ashtaris

Thanks so much for the words of wisdom and advice @Merlin13KAGL‌. So we have a couple of questions for you. You said above that "CC Talons require you to be close." So do you recommend not using Talons and a different CC method, or just that you need to be close to be effective?

Next time I'll be sure to bring along a Ice Staff and make sure Wall Of Elements gets put on the bar.

One thing I was wondering about is that you said to kill a couple of them, and then just CC the rest. So if you do kill just a couple, they won't respawn? If so, that would make it much easier. Before we were not trying to kill any of the ghost cats because we thought as soon as you killed one, more would appear.

We will give it another go after licking our wounds from the last round and let you know how it goes next time

Merlin13KAGL

Talons are effective, but has shorter range. If you use it and then step out, you should be fine. (Remember there is a lot of poison AoE)

Generally, CC is used for one of two purposes: To keep something there so you can beat on it, or to keep something away from you.

From what you've told me, I'm gathering your intent is the 2nd.

Depending on which you're having issue with will help determine whether or not Talons is a good fit (and determining what you're replacing it with).

The other CC's mentioned have good range without requiring you to be right on top of the enemy (so they can be used by your healer, for instance)

The spirit cats used to work by respawning after the 4th was dispatched. How it seems to work more consistently now is that it's a timed thing. (Kill one, after a time period, another respawns)

They will continue to respawn as long as LongClaw lives - they're intended to snare/damage/distract you from the boss.

By killing two of them but not all, you reduce the amount of things targeting you (less damage taken, less chance for snare) without completely taking your focus off the boss. Five targets targeting 1-4 people is considerably different than 3 targets targeting 1-4 people.

This keeps you from focusing on the endless adds (and doing minimal boss damage) and makes your healing simpler. Think you'll find handling 2 adds is much more manageable than handling four, and you can focus where you need to - killing the boss.

The other beauty of Restraining Prison is that you get 15% (?) additional chance for critical if you have the passives maxed. This is huge if it's your DPS laying it down. (So, with passives and morph, you get self Heal, Root x 6, Snare x 6, and increased Crit chance x 6 in one skill...What's not to love?)

The short version is, there are a lot of CC options that will help your group keep some distance and not get overwhelmed. Volcanic Rune is wonderful here, just don't let it use all your resources (esp if you're healing). It can save the day if someone is getting overwhelmed by adds and steps in a trap at low health. You can also drop it point blank at your feet.

Something else I didn't mention, many of the Bow morphs offer snare, disorient, and knockback (single target) options.

Depending on your group, try some of these. Keep moving, chip away at the boss, heals, heals, heals.

You'll get there.

LongClaw, as it is in many of the group dungeons, is yet another mid-way boss that's actually harder than the end boss is.

Good luck

Dagoth_Rac

I am the tank that usually runs with Merlin13KAGL. I'll just give a few tank considerations.

1). Sneak through and disarm as many traps as you can before fight starts.

2). Don't tank boss. Most of his attacks are ground-based archer AoE. Up to DPS/Heals to not stand in those.

3). Taunt 2 lions well away from group. Keep them taunted whole time. Don't even bother to kill them. Just keep armor buffs and damage shields and stuff like that up so you can sop up the damage without dying.

4). See if DPS/Heals can now survive only dealing with 2 adds. They will basically want to ignore adds and concentrate on killing boss. The 2 remaining adds will continue to gnaw at them, but hopefully damage is reduced to levels that heal-over-time effects can handle.

5). If adds still doing too much damage, taunt 3. If still not working, taunt 4. Getting to be a pretty serious tanking challenge at that point, though!

Ashtaris

Thanks Dagoth for your thoughts on tanking Longclaw. I'll be sure to pass those along to our group tank so he can try some of your tactics next time. We really appreciate the time the both of you have taken to help us out. I see that we were doing a lot of things wrong in our tactics and hopefully with a few changes we can turn the table the next time.

Merlin13KAGL

How goes the good fight?

Morshire

HA - where the heck was I for this last week? Longclaw is the one boss that I could not tank. Obviously I was doing it all wrong. LOL I haven't even gone back in weeks so I could try and improve my tanking skills. I don't know if it helped them, but it did me. Thanks.

Cambridge_Spy

Seriously, ZeniMax, you need to do someting about Longclaw's adds. I read what you did in the patch notes, and I'm very angry. Longclaw is the main reason why I can't beat Selene's Web, and instead of making things easier, you make our lives very difficult to the point where conquering Longclaw is like trying to control a sneeze. Please, do something about the Senche Spirits. Make them easier to kill or have a certain number spawn at a time or something.

Morshire

Cambridge_Spy wrote: »

Seriously, ZeniMax, you need to do someting about Longclaw's adds. I read what you did in the patch notes, and I'm very angry. Longclaw is the main reason why I can't beat Selene's Web, and instead of making things easier, you make our lives very difficult to the point where conquering Longclaw is like trying to control a sneeze. Please, do something about the Senche Spirits. Make them easier to kill or have a certain number spawn at a time or something.

Well, I know that frustration. However, if you follow the guide above, you will "control the sneeze". I had a rough time, see post above, but have figured the mechanics out and gotten it done. Group dynamics also play a part, but IMO, that boss gets easier and easier the more I run it. I hope they keep challenges like that in the game. It forces people to "play" the game, rather than just steam roll through things for better gear.

Cambridge_Spy

Morshire wrote: »

Cambridge_Spy wrote: »

Seriously, ZeniMax, you need to do someting about Longclaw's adds. I read what you did in the patch notes, and I'm very angry. Longclaw is the main reason why I can't beat Selene's Web, and instead of making things easier, you make our lives very difficult to the point where conquering Longclaw is like trying to control a sneeze. Please, do something about the Senche Spirits. Make them easier to kill or have a certain number spawn at a time or something.

Well, I know that frustration. However, if you follow the guide above, you will "control the sneeze". I had a rough time, see post above, but have figured the mechanics out and gotten it done. Group dynamics also play a part, but IMO, that boss gets easier and easier the more I run it. I hope they keep challenges like that in the game. It forces people to "play" the game, rather than just steam roll through things for better gear.

I was finally able to beat Longclaw a second time, thanks to this thread. Now for that other matter, Selene...

Merlin13KAGL

Well done @Morshire and @Cambridge_Spy !

Anvos

Way I've done it before is that the tank picks up as many of the lion adds as they can and pretty much just sits on them while dps focus on boss or depending on strength of tank and heals sometimes you go the perserverance route and have 1 dps off tank if possible.

Vrathak

Actually.... this is how you do it... man I love my NB XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk9MrwcxGg&feature=youtu.be

Anvos

I have my doubts that would work if your doing it a full vet 12 scale.

Cambridge_Spy

I've had it up to here with this dungeon! While the abilities described above help at keeping Longclaw's cats at bay, I have only been able to beat him twice. Seriously ZeniMax, you need to nerf the fight with Longclaw. The same with Selene. I've been anxiously hoping the latest updates mention Selene's Web, but in the end, it does not get a mention whatsoever. When it does, it's either "Longclaw is now immune during certain stages" or "The Spirit Senches move faster now". I don't want that sort of thing, I want the damn things nerfed. Toned down.

And I don't care what others say about welcoming that kind of a challenge, in the end it just makes it a lot harder, nay impossible, to take the bosses down fast enough. Selene's Web is a giant thorn in the backside for me. Somehow having fights with a heavy emphasis on Group Dyanmics is a very, very bad idea.

I am very disappointed in you for making this very difficult.

Valymer

I was trying to do it on my V10 templar with a pug and it just wasn't happening. Tried a bunch of times and failed so I got pissed off and logged on my sorc to just come in and blast Longclaw into Oblivion.

Probably the hardest fight in a non-vet dungeon in my opinion (depending on group makeup)

ZOS_The_Adoring_Fan

Thanks for your feedback - we'll look at Longclaw (and his Senches) to see how comparatively deadly the fight is for a boss of his tier. While we would like for all dungeon boss fights to be challenging and require group coordination, we want to avoid any one boss causing an extreme amount of grief.

Necessary fixes to Longclaw's combat behavior have not been made in an attempt to alter the difficulty of the fight, they have been made to harden the stability of the encounter so that it does not experience unexpected results.

Vrathak

Vrathak wrote: »

Actually.... this is how you do it... man I love my NB XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk9MrwcxGg&feature=youtu.be

Oh my god my NB sucked..... LOL I kill this boss in 15-20 seconds nowadays solo on my new builds hahaha that NB was just a tank :P Still have it at CP and still the best tank I`ve seen so far :P

Therwind

Long story short. Tank slots a range taunt and drags the cats away so everyone can target the boss easier. Everyone dps the boss and ignore the cats while the tank keeps taunting the boss and any cats that spawn.

Ashtaris

OK, the forum mods have the OK to close this necro'd thread And BTW, Longclaw is a piece of cake now. The real secret is practice, working on your build, and getting gud

Therwind

New comers still struggle with this is why I responded. Q up for this on your level 20 and you will see.

ForsakenSin

Therwind wrote: »

Long story short. Tank slots a range taunt and drags the cats away so everyone can target the boss easier. Everyone dps the boss and ignore the cats while the tank keeps taunting the boss and any cats that spawn.

yep that is how you deal with that

Asardes

The short version:
1) Kill the black panthers, don't shoot at boss at this stage because he reflects back (like the Netch boss in Darkshade 2)
2) Have the tank distract the ghost adds and kite them away from boss, and if he can restrain them
3) Burn boss as fast as possible because once an add is killed another spawns right away to take its place.
Don't stay in the green puddles, they can poison you quite fast.

altemriel

Ashtaris wrote: »

A little background first. We have a casual group of four family members who have been doing the normal Undaunted pledges, so we are not hard core gamers by any stretch For the most part, we have enjoyed doing the pledges and although they are frustrating at times, we have been able to do most of them since they started their wacky scaling, but not all. Selene's Web is one of those, especially that wicked archer Longclaw and his lion minions. We don't have any problems taking down the first four lions, but when Longclaw brings out his ghost lions, we usually wipe within a short time. Besides trying to improve by l2p, what can we use to take him down? We have tried doing CC by rooting the lions but that doesn't seem to help. I think our tank was using Burning Talons and my Sorc was trying to use Shattering Prison and Rune prison but without much luck.

It just seems that with him shooting a barrage of lethal arrows, plus trying to keep his lions under control, plus trying to avoid those stupid traps, AND take down the boss at the same time, it was just too overwhelming for us.

So for those of you who are the professionals, what's the secret? We are willing to learn!

Thanks guys!

I did not read the other replies, but first: may I ask if you are running the "right setups" of your characters (the ones which maximize your stats), like:

- use set gear(s)
- assign your attribute points only to one of the three (magicka, stamina, health) and not distribute them to more than 1 of the 3 (hybrid builds are possible, but I guess they require much expertise to make them viable and good working)
- you do have characters in your group that are a tank and a healer and a dps oriented build, right? it is doable also with healer+3x DPS characters, but a healer is a must if you are casuals


I mean if all the above prerequisities are met, this boss is as easy as killing a fly with your hand!

Asardes

Hybrid builds work only for tank, which needs both stamina and magicka pool, as well as high health and he is not expected to do much damage, but aggro, debuff and CC the enemies. For DD though most attributes/enchants should be in either magicka or stamina, and armor should be light or medium respectively because your damage of your abilities scales of the resource they use as well as spell or weapon power & critical rating respectively. If you don't have enough DPS to kill stuff quickly, the group will be overwhelmed in some fights. The healer is just a magicka DD who mostly uses his spells for healing & support instead of pure damage.