ZOS - A Compromise for Past & Future Players

DDuke

So, I was thinking about this for a while now, and I believe this is the only way how the integrity of the game could be salvaged:

Give the subscribers (now ESO Plus) full access to everything that gets released, just like they had prior to B2P.

Every mount, costume & DLC, everything that gets released.

Make them purchasable one by one from Cash Shop for non-subscribers for equal amount (or a little bit more), and if you weren't subscribed when something got released, you'd have to pick it off from Cash Shop as well.


Do not: make us pay extra (on top of our subscription) for anything. Especially things like "XP Boosters" or "AP boosters", these should not exist.

Subscription = Full Access


This way, you can keep the game "B2P", but incentivize subscribing a lot more. If enough people subscribe as before B2P, you continue to get the same amount of money.
If less people subscribe, there's still the Cash Shop for revenue if these people want to buy things one by one.


Let me add some concerns people have over the transition, and how to address them:

Concerns

1. Access to full game made almost impossible

I feel the worst possible outcome is that subscribers will still have to spend hundreds of $$$ to unlock everything in game (on top of their subscription).

This has happened in all past B2P/F2P games I've played, which is the reason for these feelings.

How can ZOS assure that completionists & collectors like myself will still be able to play the game after this transition?

2. Inconveniences added to the game, in order to add & incentivize convenience items.

This is another thing, which often happens with B2P games.

Things like bank space & inventory slots are suddenly added behind paywalls, and loot is often made more abundant (to even further entice you to pay for these "convenience items".
Less bank space/inventory slots means that if you're an avid collector of gear & materials, you are suddenly expected to pay more for doing so.

Things like additional crafting professions & character slots are also often made purchasable only.

3. "Boosters" & other indirect advantages start appearing

Often these are made look innocent, but the fact is that they are providing an advantage for your character.

Now, if you are not a competitive player, you might not care about small bonuses such as 10%. But if you look at the fuss over PvP bonuses, you may see that they are kind of a big deal when doing difficult PvE content, as well as when simply trying to "min max" your character (or gold/XP gaining efficiency).

This essentially makes them a "must buy" if you are a competitive player that wants to stay ahead of the curve and undermines the actual aspect of playing & earning things in favour of paying cash for them.

Also, touching on the previous point, inconveniences are often created in order to entice players to buy these "boosters". Suddenly gold & gear might become harder to find, and only the boosters you have to purchase might restore those rates to normal.

4. Direct Advantages start appearing

Sometimes F2P/B2P MMOs take this one step further, and start offering direct advantages through Cash Shop. These include, but are not limited to:

• Powerful gear that is only available from Cash Shop
• Powerful gear/materials that drops from difficult in-game content and/or are hard to find.
• Potions directly increasing your power

5. Content Update frequency slows down

This is a direct consequence of falling revenue, and there are three factors that affect it:

• Box sales: as dictated by common sense, the box sales of aging games always tend to go down over the years. This causes a big fall in revenue that has to be replaced somewhere else (e.g. Cash Shop or rise in subscription costs).
• Cash Shop: if the Cash Shop doesn't sell enough, it will often get more enticing items (see above)
• Subscriptions: ESO also has subscription, which I believe might fix some of the issues.

As long as revenue keeps coming in, there'll be no problems. Once that revenue stops coming in due to any of the three above factors, problems arise...

6. Content Updates are more casual oriented

Let's face it: most of the people preferring B2P/F2P options, are people that do not spend much time playing video games.

They are people who do not want to waste money on subscription & feel forced to play the game, they simply want to hop in every once in a while, play a couple of hours and log off, like any single player game.

There is nothing wrong with that, but if content updates are aimed mostly towards this particular player group only, then the more dedicated gamers who were expecting challenging & interesting raids & dungeons will feel disappointed and leave.

How to Fix these Points

1. Full access to the game should be provided by subscription, as I stated on my proposition.
2. "Convenience Items" that directly affect your gameplay should not exist. Convenience purchases should be limited to Server Transfers (EU-US or PC-XBONE/PS4) & things like name/appearance changes.
3. "Boosters" and any other items giving you special benefits/advantages should not exist. Period.
4. Same as above, players should not be able to purchase hard work & effort with money.
5. All these reasons combined are why I believe Zenimax should focus on subscriptions as their main revenue source, since they are the most steady and least controversial source of the three.
   Box sales will eventually start falling, and Zenimax should hope to keep the player base subscribing instead of using Cash Shop in order to create a healthy & fair game.
   Cash Shop can still exist (and the game can still be B2P) even with the focus being on subscriptions.
6. Zenimax must provide the more hardcore audience clear information on how they intend to keep us around, as well as make sure this content does not become trivialized & dumbed down because of the sudden influx of less experienced/capable players (note: remember this when doing PvP changes as well).

Sincerely,
Decimus

AshySamurai

IMO you're asking too much. It's like premium membership for free.

DDuke

AshySamurai wrote: »

IMO you're asking too much. It's like premium membership for free.

I'm asking for the same deal we have at the moment, while still allowing new players the same opportunities.

If asking for what we currently have for the same amount of cash is too much, well... I don't know what to tell you.

DDuke

I was actually looking for more insight into why this would/wouldn't work

Any feedback?

Scamandros

It would depend on the proportion of players who pay subs vs pay more then the amount of a sub through cash shop, dlc etc.
If #2 has a substantial population zos will have no motivation for giving subbers everything, as all those people who get sucked into the cash shop can swap to paying just $15 for a month of unlimited stuff.

DDuke

I've added some of the biggest concerns former subscribers like me have over the change to B2P, and how they should be addressed.

Feel free to leave feedback.

Iago

DDuke wrote: »

So, I was thinking about this for a while now, and I believe this is the only way how the integrity of the game could be salvaged:

Give the subscribers (now ESO Plus) full access to everything that gets released, just like they had prior to B2P.

Every mount, costume & DLC, everything that gets released.

Make them purchasable one by one from Cash Shop for non-subscribers for equal amount (or a little bit more).


Do not: make us pay extra (on top of our subscription) for anything. Especially things like "XP Boosters" or "AP boosters", these should not exist.

Subscription = Full Access


This way, you can keep the game "B2P", but incentivize subscribing a lot more. If enough people subscribe as before B2P, you continue to get the same amount of money.
If less people subscribe, there's still the Cash Shop for revenue if these people want to buy things one by one.


Let me add some concerns people have over the transition, and how to address them:

Concerns

1. Access to full game made almost impossible

I feel the worst possible outcome is that subscribers will still have to spend hundreds of $$$ to unlock everything in game (on top of their subscription).

This has happened in all past B2P/F2P games I've played, which is the reason for these feelings.

How can ZOS assure that completionists & collectors like myself will still be able to play the game after this transition?

2. Inconveniences added to the game, in order to add & incentivize convenience items.

This is another thing, which often happens with B2P games.

Things like bank space & inventory slots are suddenly added behind paywalls, and loot is often made more abundant (to even further entice you to pay for these "convenience items".
Less bank space/inventory slots means that if you're an avid collector of gear & materials, you are suddenly expected to pay more for doing so.

Things like additional crafting professions & character slots are also often made purchasable only.

3. "Boosters" & other indirect advantages start appearing

Often these are made look innocent, but the fact is that they are providing an advantage for your character.

Now, if you are not a competitive player, you might not care about small bonuses such as 10%. But if you look at the fuss over PvP bonuses, you may see that they are kind of a big deal when doing difficult PvE content, as well as when simply trying to "min max" your character (or gold/XP gaining efficiency).

This essentially makes them a "must buy" if you are a competitive player that wants to stay ahead of the curve and undermines the actual aspect of playing & earning things in favour of paying cash for them.

Also, touching on the previous point, inconveniences are often created in order to entice players to buy these "boosters". Suddenly gold & gear might become harder to find, and only the boosters you have to purchase might restore those rates to normal.

4. Direct Advantages start appearing

Sometimes F2P/B2P MMOs take this one step further, and start offering direct advantages through Cash Shop. These include, but are not limited to:

• Powerful gear that is only available from Cash Shop
• Powerful gear/materials that drops from difficult in-game content and/or are hard to find.
• Potions directly increasing your power

5. Content Update frequency slows down

This is a direct consequence of falling revenue, and there are three factors that affect it:

• Box sales: as dictated by common sense, the box sales of aging games always tend to go down over the years. This causes a big fall in revenue that has to be replaced somewhere else (e.g. Cash Shop or rise in subscription costs).
• Cash Shop: if the Cash Shop doesn't sell enough, it will often get more enticing items (see above)
• Subscriptions: ESO also has subscription, which I believe might fix some of the issues.

As long as revenue keeps coming in, there'll be no problems. Once that revenue stops coming in due to any of the three above factors, problems arise...

6. Content Updates are more casual oriented

Let's face it: most of the people preferring B2P/F2P options, are people that do not spend much time playing video games.

They are people who do not want to waste money on subscription & feel forced to play the game, they simply want to hop in every once in a while, play a couple of hours and log off, like any single player game.

There is nothing wrong with that, but if content updates are aimed mostly towards this particular player group only, then the more dedicated gamers who were expecting challenging & interesting raids & dungeons will feel disappointed and leave.

How to Fix these Points

1. Full access to the game should be provided by subscription, as I stated on my proposition.
2. "Convenience Items" that directly affect your gameplay should not exist. Convenience purchases should be limited to Server Transfers (EU-US or PC-XBONE/PS4) & things like name/appearance changes.
3. "Boosters" and any other items giving you special benefits/advantages should not exist. Period.
4. Same as above, players should not be able to purchase hard work & effort with money.
5. All these reasons combined are why I believe Zenimax should focus on subscriptions as their main revenue source, since they are the most steady and least controversial source of the three.
   Box sales will eventually start falling, and Zenimax should hope to keep the player base subscribing instead of using Cash Shop in order to create a healthy & fair game.
   Cash Shop can still exist (and the game can still be B2P) even with the focus being on subscriptions.
6. Zenimax must provide the more hardcore audience clear information on how they intend to keep us around, as well as make sure this content does not become trivialized & dumbed down because of the sudden influx of less experienced/capable players (note: remember this when doing PvP changes as well).

Sincerely,
Decimus

I like this, it is incredibly reasonable.

Faulgor

I think all unlocks in the crown store should work like the DLC. While subscribed, you have access to everything. When your subscription ends, you only have access to those things you purchased directly. Of course this would mean you would lose your guar mount or dog pet without a subscription, but I don't see anything wrong with that. In return, we could get rid of the crown stipend and the ridiculous exp and gold boosts for subscribers.

So you could either
- Subscribe, have access to everything like now and support the game with your commitment
- Play for free and buy everything else you want individually

That actually sounds like an appealing model to me with the highest amount of freedom for players that don't want the commitment of a subscription, and the unlimited access that commited subscribers of ESO like and expect.

Why is this not considered? The only reason I can think of is that they expect to sell a lot of store items to people that already subscribe, but I find that unlikely. First, there is little incentive to subscribe until there are numerous DLC packs in the store, and second, they offer a huge crown stipend to subscribers anyway.

SoonerMagicEE

If you were paying a monthly subscription fee when you unlocked the items/DLC, haven't you at that point already paid for it? Why should it be taken away from you, forcing you to pay for it AGAIN, if you cancel your subscription? That part irks me. The rest I don't mind as explained by ZOS, provided they don't go further down the P2W road. I'm not a huge fan of the 10% exp/gold boost, but meh, whatever. As for the P2W tendency, this happens if/when game revenue drops. If they can keep a health number of players interested, this shouldn't be a problem.....hopefully.

Faulgor

SoonerMagicEE wrote: »

If you were paying a monthly subscription fee when you unlocked the items/DLC, haven't you at that point already paid for it? Why should it be taken away from you, forcing you to pay for it AGAIN, if you cancel your subscription? That part irks me.

It's just the difference between a rental and a purchase.

SoonerMagicEE

So subscribers are basically being punished by declaring them to be renters only. If I spend $180/year on a game, I don't think it's right that the content I'm paying for could be taken away from me. If the entire game were to remain subscription based, then that makes sense, but now if I choose to switch over to playing the way others are playing, I'd have to hand over MORE money to have the things those non-subscribers had to pay far less for to keep.

DDuke

This whole idea would work only if they keep their promised release schedule 4-6 weeks, but how about you getting unlimited access to everything that releases during your subscription period, and then having them separately in the Cash Shop?
If something releases while you weren't subscribed, you'd have to pick it up from Cash Shop (they could make discount bundles later on if content updates pile up).

Faulgor

DDuke wrote: »

This whole idea would work only if they keep their promised release schedule 4-6 weeks

Why is that important, if I may ask?
They could certainly manage to add new mounts or pets in that timeframe, but I don't see that happening for content or system updates, no matter the payment model.

Zershar_Vemod

AshySamurai wrote: »

IMO you're asking too much. It's like premium membership for free.

How is asking to keep what we have now "too much?"

The OP gave a very reasonable proposition.

DDuke

Faulgor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

This whole idea would work only if they keep their promised release schedule 4-6 weeks

Why is that important, if I may ask?
They could certainly manage to add new mounts or pets in that timeframe, but I don't see that happening for content or system updates, no matter the payment model.

Because then you'd only subscribe right before a patch was about to launch.

You obviously wouldn't want to be subscribed, if you gained no benefit from it.

If content released every 30 days~, then people would have to be subscribed to receive it.

Of course, they could remove 1-month subscriptions and provide 3-month only to ease up on the development schedule, but I'm not sure that'd be a good idea.

eisberg

You are assuming that the mounts and cosmetic stuff would have been created in the first place if the game stayed as subscription only. There is already a mount to buy seperatly, you are assuming they would not have added more to that over time.

DDuke

eisberg wrote: »

You are assuming that the mounts and cosmetic stuff would have been created in the first place if the game stayed as subscription only. There is already a mount to buy seperatly, you are assuming they would not have added more to that over time.

I'm not assuming anything, except that they're untrustworthy, greedy scammers. I'm fully aware they would've done that.

What I'm writing is what they should do, if they had any ethics/morals left.

PlagueMonk

AshySamurai wrote: »

IMO you're asking too much. It's like premium membership for free.

Uh no, they are asking for premium membership for those willing to KEEP subscribing.

And I agree with all of the OPs points btw.

If I'm going to CONTINUE paying them but get less updates, there has to be some way Zenimax is compensating me for that decreased player experience which they promised me when I started subbing and are now not delivering on.

10% less craft time, and 10% more gold and exp is NOT the way to do that. At this point it becomes P2W.

BoloBoffin

You aren't going to get every cosmetic item in the Crown Store for free. You don't have that now. If you want to play as an Imperial and play any race, any alliance, you pay $20 more. If you want a palimino horse in game, you pay $15 more. If you want a guar pet, you ordered the guar plushie in the mail and got the code.

We have had a cash shop in this game from day one. Every Imperial edition sold, every Molag Bal collecting dust on someone's shelf, every brown horse you see running around Tamriel was proof to Zenimax that there was money on the table and a cash shop was worth investing in. When the subscription model for consoles fell through, Zenimax went with plan B. You'll get 1500 crowns a month to get stuff from the Crown Store on the ESO+ membership, plus the boosters. That's the deal.

nerevarine1138

I love that people think this is a negotiation.

The payment model is changing. Crown Store prices will be adjusted (or not) based on feedback from PTS testing, but that's it. They aren't going to offer the plan you're putting forward.

ashlee17

DDuke wrote: »

So, I was thinking about this for a while now, and I believe this is the only way how the integrity of the game could be salvaged:

Give the subscribers (now ESO Plus) full access to everything that gets released, just like they had prior to B2P.

Every mount, costume & DLC, everything that gets released.

Make them purchasable one by one from Cash Shop for non-subscribers for equal amount (or a little bit more), and if you weren't subscribed when something got released, you'd have to pick it off from Cash Shop as well.


Do not: make us pay extra (on top of our subscription) for anything. Especially things like "XP Boosters" or "AP boosters", these should not exist.

Subscription = Full Access


This way, you can keep the game "B2P", but incentivize subscribing a lot more. If enough people subscribe as before B2P, you continue to get the same amount of money.
If less people subscribe, there's still the Cash Shop for revenue if these people want to buy things one by one.


Let me add some concerns people have over the transition, and how to address them:

Concerns

1. Access to full game made almost impossible

I feel the worst possible outcome is that subscribers will still have to spend hundreds of $$$ to unlock everything in game (on top of their subscription).

This has happened in all past B2P/F2P games I've played, which is the reason for these feelings.

How can ZOS assure that completionists & collectors like myself will still be able to play the game after this transition?

2. Inconveniences added to the game, in order to add & incentivize convenience items.

This is another thing, which often happens with B2P games.

Things like bank space & inventory slots are suddenly added behind paywalls, and loot is often made more abundant (to even further entice you to pay for these "convenience items".
Less bank space/inventory slots means that if you're an avid collector of gear & materials, you are suddenly expected to pay more for doing so.

Things like additional crafting professions & character slots are also often made purchasable only.

3. "Boosters" & other indirect advantages start appearing

Often these are made look innocent, but the fact is that they are providing an advantage for your character.

Now, if you are not a competitive player, you might not care about small bonuses such as 10%. But if you look at the fuss over PvP bonuses, you may see that they are kind of a big deal when doing difficult PvE content, as well as when simply trying to "min max" your character (or gold/XP gaining efficiency).

This essentially makes them a "must buy" if you are a competitive player that wants to stay ahead of the curve and undermines the actual aspect of playing & earning things in favour of paying cash for them.

Also, touching on the previous point, inconveniences are often created in order to entice players to buy these "boosters". Suddenly gold & gear might become harder to find, and only the boosters you have to purchase might restore those rates to normal.

4. Direct Advantages start appearing

Sometimes F2P/B2P MMOs take this one step further, and start offering direct advantages through Cash Shop. These include, but are not limited to:

• Powerful gear that is only available from Cash Shop
• Powerful gear/materials that drops from difficult in-game content and/or are hard to find.
• Potions directly increasing your power

5. Content Update frequency slows down

This is a direct consequence of falling revenue, and there are three factors that affect it:

• Box sales: as dictated by common sense, the box sales of aging games always tend to go down over the years. This causes a big fall in revenue that has to be replaced somewhere else (e.g. Cash Shop or rise in subscription costs).
• Cash Shop: if the Cash Shop doesn't sell enough, it will often get more enticing items (see above)
• Subscriptions: ESO also has subscription, which I believe might fix some of the issues.

As long as revenue keeps coming in, there'll be no problems. Once that revenue stops coming in due to any of the three above factors, problems arise...

6. Content Updates are more casual oriented

Let's face it: most of the people preferring B2P/F2P options, are people that do not spend much time playing video games.

They are people who do not want to waste money on subscription & feel forced to play the game, they simply want to hop in every once in a while, play a couple of hours and log off, like any single player game.

There is nothing wrong with that, but if content updates are aimed mostly towards this particular player group only, then the more dedicated gamers who were expecting challenging & interesting raids & dungeons will feel disappointed and leave.

How to Fix these Points

1. Full access to the game should be provided by subscription, as I stated on my proposition.
2. "Convenience Items" that directly affect your gameplay should not exist. Convenience purchases should be limited to Server Transfers (EU-US or PC-XBONE/PS4) & things like name/appearance changes.
3. "Boosters" and any other items giving you special benefits/advantages should not exist. Period.
4. Same as above, players should not be able to purchase hard work & effort with money.
5. All these reasons combined are why I believe Zenimax should focus on subscriptions as their main revenue source, since they are the most steady and least controversial source of the three.
   Box sales will eventually start falling, and Zenimax should hope to keep the player base subscribing instead of using Cash Shop in order to create a healthy & fair game.
   Cash Shop can still exist (and the game can still be B2P) even with the focus being on subscriptions.
6. Zenimax must provide the more hardcore audience clear information on how they intend to keep us around, as well as make sure this content does not become trivialized & dumbed down because of the sudden influx of less experienced/capable players (note: remember this when doing PvP changes as well).

Sincerely,
Decimus

100% spot on

nerevarine1138

ashlee17 wrote: »

100% spot on

This is why we have an "Agree" button.

rawne1980b16_ESO

I wish people wouldn't quote the entire thing. Makes it hard to read when people quote a huge post.

Merlin13KAGL

DDuke wrote: »

I was actually looking for more insight into why this would/wouldn't work

Any feedback?

Because if you could get everything for $15 / month, people would just pay $15 a month, and we'd never have been in this predicament.

The Cash Shop is just that - intended to make more $. They're not about to give that up.