Sypher's Initial Response to the B2P/Console Announcement.

Sypher

It's not all doom and gloom fellas.

Edit:
I'm not being blind to the negatives that may/will come with this change. The fact of the matter is, this change is happening, whether we like it or not. SO we might as well make the best out of it and try our best to give ZOS constructive feedback (avoid P2W) as opposed to just whining/threatening to quit the game.

timidobserver

Nice, finally some realistic comments. I agree with most of what was said in this video.

BalerionBlackDread

Yes, I loves this video. Very realistic and pragmatic view, which is sorely needed in the forums atm.

Bouvin

Difference between GW2 and ESO. GW2 started out Buy 2 Play (so was GW1, but didn't have a cash shop). ESO lied to their players for an entire year, including pre-game hype where they said they'd stick to a subscription model and shut the game down before they went F2P.

I agree with the rest. Keep Pay2Win out of the game.

I also agree that the developers want to keep P2W out. But they aren't the ones makes that decision. The ones making the decision are the producers, executives, and accountants.

Bloodfang

Bouvin wrote: »

Difference between GW2 and ESO. GW2 started out Buy 2 Play (so was GW1, but didn't have a cash shop). ESO lied to their players for an entire year, including pre-game hype where they said they'd stick to a subscription model and shut the game down before they went F2P.

They will still stick to a Subscription Model. It's not going anywere.

They are making a hybrid between P2P / B2P, which is in my opinion way better than only P2P and especially only B2P on their own.

Roechacca

Name one MMO with a successful and happy community of B2P or F2P players . Just name one . I disagree with everything You said on experience .

OrangeTheCat

Remind me why we care about this guy's opinion? Why is his opinion any better than anyone else's? Do we now agree with Angry Joe's negative opinion about the game because he made a YouTube video too?

BlueIllyrian

Bouvin wrote: »

Difference between GW2 and ESO. GW2 started out Buy 2 Play (so was GW1, but didn't have a cash shop). ESO lied to their players for an entire year, including pre-game hype where they said they'd stick to a subscription model and shut the game down before they went F2P.

I agree with the rest. Keep Pay2Win out of the game.

I also agree that the developers want to keep P2W out. But they aren't the ones makes that decision. The ones making the decision are the producers, executives, and accountants.

I am sorry but why on Earth should they keep P2W from game if they just installed the mechanic to profit from it? Plenty of people love that and will get hooked, getting rid of us complainers is an added bonus.

BalerionBlackDread

Roechacca wrote: »

Name one MMO with a successful and happy community of B2P or F2P players . Just name one . I disagree with everything You said on experience .

I don't know about now, but when I left swtor it was fine as fiddlesticks. It was completely F2P with a cash shop and when the transition happened the doomsayers were out in force, but after that the community adapted and overcame and went back to normal. (at least as far as I could tell)

thepman69b16_ESO

Sypher is great , love his videos. BUT he does make ESO youtube videos and I can fully understand him not wanting this game to fail. I understand him being optimistic for ESO's future. I hope your right SypherPK. From past mmos, this doesn't look good.

ESO will make "A Lot" of money off of consoles compared to PC/Mac so I see what's happening.

Bouvin

Bloodfang wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Difference between GW2 and ESO. GW2 started out Buy 2 Play (so was GW1, but didn't have a cash shop). ESO lied to their players for an entire year, including pre-game hype where they said they'd stick to a subscription model and shut the game down before they went F2P.

They will still stick to a Subscription Model. It's not going anywere.

They are making a hybrid between P2P / B2P, which is in my opinion way better than only P2P and especially only B2P on their own.

That's what LoTRO did too.

Initially.

But that'll change.

Bouvin

Goldie wrote: »

I appreciate the Video Sypher, and I have to add, I think that a LOT of people that posted on the forums today, did so without reading the announcements or watching the twitch stream released by ZOS at the same time as the announcement.

Mostly, all we have seen on the Forums today is a bunch of this;

Which does nothing but clog up the forums with ridiculous nonsense.

You assume that because people don't believe ZOS that they didn't read/watch.

It's not about people not reading or watching.

It's about people having lost trust for ZOS. Because well, ZOS has been really shady about the issue so far.

Bouvin

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Name one MMO with a successful and happy community of B2P or F2P players . Just name one . I disagree with everything You said on experience .

I don't know about now, but when I left swtor it was fine as fiddlesticks. It was completely F2P with a cash shop and when the transition happened the doomsayers were out in force, but after that the community adapted and overcame and went back to normal. (at least as far as I could tell)

Not the case with LoTRO.

It initially got a huge boost from F2P/P2P hybrid and cash shop, for about a year.

Now it's almost dead. WHy? because at some point the cash stop starts taking priority. And rather than new content they just start release "shiny objects" in the cash shop to drain your bank account.

Sypher

I'm not being blind to the negatives that may/will come with this change. The fact of the matter is, this change is happening, whether we like it or not. SO we might as well make the best out of it and try our best to give ZOS constructive feedback (avoid P2W) as opposed to just whining/threatening to quit the game.

Fissh

Bouvin wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

I appreciate the Video Sypher, and I have to add, I think that a LOT of people that posted on the forums today, did so without reading the announcements or watching the twitch stream released by ZOS at the same time as the announcement.

Mostly, all we have seen on the Forums today is a bunch of this;

Which does nothing but clog up the forums with ridiculous nonsense.

You assume that because people don't believe ZOS that they didn't read/watch.

It's not about people not reading or watching.

It's about people having lost trust for ZOS. Because well, ZOS has been really shady about the issue so far.

??? I appreciate their transparency. The only way they could be more so is if they streamed their literal live game development. If you have lost trust, then it only shows ignorance to development. The only game crushing going on is self entitlement sprinkled with ignorance.

Roechacca

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Name one MMO with a successful and happy community of B2P or F2P players . Just name one . I disagree with everything You said on experience .

I don't know about now, but when I left swtor it was fine as fiddlesticks. It was completely F2P with a cash shop and when the transition happened the doomsayers were out in force, but after that the community adapted and overcame and went back to normal. (at least as far as I could tell)

So why aren't you there ? I was there since beta and nothing you said is even close to the reality that is swtor .

Fissh

Bouvin wrote: »

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Name one MMO with a successful and happy community of B2P or F2P players . Just name one . I disagree with everything You said on experience .

I don't know about now, but when I left swtor it was fine as fiddlesticks. It was completely F2P with a cash shop and when the transition happened the doomsayers were out in force, but after that the community adapted and overcame and went back to normal. (at least as far as I could tell)

Not the case with LoTRO.

It initially got a huge boost from F2P/P2P hybrid and cash shop, for about a year.

Now it's almost dead. WHy? because at some point the cash stop starts taking priority. And rather than new content they just start release "shiny objects" in the cash shop to drain your bank account.

Was LotR released on console? So different animal then....

Djem

Bloodfang wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Difference between GW2 and ESO. GW2 started out Buy 2 Play (so was GW1, but didn't have a cash shop). ESO lied to their players for an entire year, including pre-game hype where they said they'd stick to a subscription model and shut the game down before they went F2P.

They will still stick to a Subscription Model. It's not going anywere.

They are making a hybrid between P2P / B2P, which is in my opinion way better than only P2P and especially only B2P on their own.

That's not what anybody means when they talk about subscription model. Every F2P MMO has a monthly payment option, that doesn't mean it's anything like P2P. And it absolutely is not a hybrid between P2P and B2P.

Having said that, I don't think TESO going B2P is such a bad thing. I might actually get my friends to play it now.

rylixav

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

I don't know about now, but when I left swtor it was fine as fiddlesticks. It was completely F2P with a cash shop and when the transition happened the doomsayers were out in force, but after that the community adapted and overcame and went back to normal. (at least as far as I could tell)

I don't think anyone is going to argue with you after you hold up SWTOR as a fine example of online gaming. The English language is insufficient to explain how many things are wrong with that statement.

Goldie

Bouvin wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

I appreciate the Video Sypher, and I have to add, I think that a LOT of people that posted on the forums today, did so without reading the announcements or watching the twitch stream released by ZOS at the same time as the announcement.

Mostly, all we have seen on the Forums today is a bunch of this;

Which does nothing but clog up the forums with ridiculous nonsense.

You assume that because people don't believe ZOS that they didn't read/watch.

It's not about people not reading or watching.

It's about people having lost trust for ZOS. Because well, ZOS has been really shady about the issue so far.

ZOS stands to make a huge amount of money off of consoles with this move. That means more money for more content and future DLC. Who cares if they have been shady, which I disagree with, regardless of who trusts who, these people that cry and whine like babies on the forums have played hundreds of hours over the last year. If the game wasn't fun, or if they felt like they weren't getting what they paid for then they WOULD have left already!

What company listens to their player base like ZOS has? NONE OF THEM!

I think what ZOS has done here is listen to the players, and give them what they wanted.

I know for a fact that most of the people crying on the forums today did NOT read/watch anything prior to posting, read their posts man!

Fissh

Sypher wrote: »

It's not all doom and gloom fellas.

Edit:
I'm not being blind to the negatives that may/will come with this change. The fact of the matter is, this change is happening, whether we like it or not. SO we might as well make the best out of it and try our best to give ZOS constructive feedback (avoid P2W) as opposed to just whining/threatening to quit the game.

Rationality and reason. The missing elements in forums. Thanks for having some man, you are a gift.

pmn100b16_ESO

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not being blind to the negatives that may/will come with this change. The fact of the matter is, this change is happening, whether we like it or not. SO we might as well make the best out of it and try our best to give ZOS constructive feedback (avoid P2W) as opposed to just whining/threatening to quit the game.

Or people could unsub now and not invest a year or more of their time and money into the game, in order to avoid the disappointment of seeing it become an ugly f2p piece of junk with 80%+ income coming from the cash shop. Depends where your priorities and your future vision of the game lies I suppose.

ZoS say they won't have p2w in the store and I can trust this company right? Hmm

Dazin93

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not being blind to the negatives that may/will come with this change. The fact of the matter is, this change is happening, whether we like it or not. SO we might as well make the best out of it and try our best to give ZOS constructive feedback (avoid P2W) as opposed to just whining/threatening to quit the game.

OR.......people can choose to no longer pay a company that displays questionable business ethics. Just because you find the incessant lying and deception acceptable doesn't mean everyone else has to feel the same.

As soon as ZOS recanted on tracking VR exp I cancelled my subscription and provided constructive feedback as to why I cancelled and my disappointment in their business practices. Unfortunately, I had already subbed for six months in November based on their promises and to date ZOS has not refunded me for the remainder of my sub.

So here we are......and I personally could care less about B2P/F2P/P2W or what happens in the future as companies like ZOS don't deserve my money or support.

Brittany_Joy

Agreed, constructive feedback>Complaining.

Edit:Pee2Win lol

Dazin93

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Agreed, constructive feedback>Complaining.

I agree as well yet people tend to view discussions as constructive when they agree with it and as complaining when they disagree.

Case in point, many people were saying shut up and color about the "complaining" over the 30 CP fiasco yet obviously the feedback made a difference leading to a change in ZOS' stance.

Sypher

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not being blind to the negatives that may/will come with this change. The fact of the matter is, this change is happening, whether we like it or not. SO we might as well make the best out of it and try our best to give ZOS constructive feedback (avoid P2W) as opposed to just whining/threatening to quit the game.

Or people could unsub now and not invest a year or more of their time and money into the game, in order to avoid the disappointment of seeing it become an ugly f2p piece of junk with 80%+ income coming from the cash shop. Depends where your priorities and your future vision of the game lies I suppose.

ZoS say they won't have p2w in the store and I can trust this company right? Hmm

Dazin93 wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not being blind to the negatives that may/will come with this change. The fact of the matter is, this change is happening, whether we like it or not. SO we might as well make the best out of it and try our best to give ZOS constructive feedback (avoid P2W) as opposed to just whining/threatening to quit the game.

OR.......people can choose to no longer pay a company that displays questionable business ethics. Just because you find the incessant lying and deception acceptable doesn't mean everyone else has to feel the same.

As soon as ZOS recanted on tracking VR exp I cancelled my subscription and provided constructive feedback as to why I cancelled and my disappointment in their business practices. Unfortunately, I had already subbed for six months in November based on their promises and to date ZOS has not refunded me for the remainder of my sub.

So here we are......and I personally could care less about B2P/F2P/P2W or what happens in the future as companies like ZOS don't deserve my money or support.

That's completely understandable and it's the consumers decision if they wish to continue to play or support the company with their time/wallets. This is mainly focused on players who wish to continue playing and new players.

It's your choice, not anyone else's.

Sypher

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Edit:Pee2Win lol

I knew someone would catch that..

Thanks for bringing it up Britanny xD

Ohioastro

Why should we take their word for it that the cash shop won't impact game play?

Xsorus

Bouvin wrote: »

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Name one MMO with a successful and happy community of B2P or F2P players . Just name one . I disagree with everything You said on experience .

I don't know about now, but when I left swtor it was fine as fiddlesticks. It was completely F2P with a cash shop and when the transition happened the doomsayers were out in force, but after that the community adapted and overcame and went back to normal. (at least as far as I could tell)

Not the case with LoTRO.

It initially got a huge boost from F2P/P2P hybrid and cash shop, for about a year.

Now it's almost dead. WHy? because at some point the cash stop starts taking priority. And rather than new content they just start release "shiny objects" in the cash shop to drain your bank account.

Umm, they've released like 3 expansions in LOTRO since f2p happened.

Yusuf

Roechacca wrote: »

Name one MMO with a successful and happy community of B2P or F2P players . Just name one . I disagree with everything You said on experience .

The ESO-community hasn't exactly been happy-go-lucky either, despite being p2p..

Jahosefat

Thanks for the positive outlook My gf and I definitely needed to hear this.

ESO needed to expand the player base, and this is probably a good way to do that. If the sub had been applied to the console versions the launch probably would have been much worse than PC launch.

We agree, anything too pay-to-win needs to be sharply criticized. Other long running successful games (with large pvp communities) have kept pay-to-win items completely out of there stores for years; ZOS hopefully will do the same.

We also agree that more focus should be placed on repeatable content (like arenas, battlegrounds, etc.) that can provide years of entertainment. This could be a way to incentivize PVP players to maintain a sub while not incorporating pay-to-win elements.