Crown Shop Concern - Time Limited Predatory Shenanigans

Paparoski · February 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Paparoski wrote: »

Froggmann5 wrote: »

Sorry to say, but you're in the Minority. It's perfectly reasonable to have Limited Time items in the store (as long as they are purely cosmetic, and don't make a player more powerful, or reach a higher point quicker than other players).

That being said, how are you not bothered by not having the 10 month Senche Mount Or any loyalty reward for that matter? Or the Beta Pet Monkey?

There would be no value in anything if it was fully available to all players all the time.

It's nice to have items that differentiate players, that's what makes an MMO good. If everyone could be the same, that would be bland and dull. Limited and Unique items help flourish the idea that we can all be different, but on the same level.

To say that players are entitled to every piece of DLC that Zenimax makes is completely ridiculous. You must be against all types of games that also have DLC with that mentality.

You're missing the point mate, I don't care about dlc as long as I could potentially have access to it. And just to point out : the beta monkey, or the imperial pet, or the new mudcrab, or the dog from steam and the figurine or the guar pet or the scrib pet or the pig pet, all those things are not "limited time" items since beta keys are everywhere and anyone could go on ebay and buy one for 5 bucks. I am talking about purely limited time items like the tiger. If you do not meet the requirements on the selected day you don't get anything.

Sometimes, people get special rewards for their activity in the game or to celebrate anniversaries. This is a common practice.

You had the same opportunity as everyone else to get the loyalty rewards.

True, true but you don't have to buy anything so it's less serious.
I would still feel bad for missing out on something like that.

nerevarine1138 · February 2015

Paparoski wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Paparoski wrote: »

Froggmann5 wrote: »

Sorry to say, but you're in the Minority. It's perfectly reasonable to have Limited Time items in the store (as long as they are purely cosmetic, and don't make a player more powerful, or reach a higher point quicker than other players).

That being said, how are you not bothered by not having the 10 month Senche Mount Or any loyalty reward for that matter? Or the Beta Pet Monkey?

There would be no value in anything if it was fully available to all players all the time.

It's nice to have items that differentiate players, that's what makes an MMO good. If everyone could be the same, that would be bland and dull. Limited and Unique items help flourish the idea that we can all be different, but on the same level.

To say that players are entitled to every piece of DLC that Zenimax makes is completely ridiculous. You must be against all types of games that also have DLC with that mentality.

You're missing the point mate, I don't care about dlc as long as I could potentially have access to it. And just to point out : the beta monkey, or the imperial pet, or the new mudcrab, or the dog from steam and the figurine or the guar pet or the scrib pet or the pig pet, all those things are not "limited time" items since beta keys are everywhere and anyone could go on ebay and buy one for 5 bucks. I am talking about purely limited time items like the tiger. If you do not meet the requirements on the selected day you don't get anything.

Sometimes, people get special rewards for their activity in the game or to celebrate anniversaries. This is a common practice.

You had the same opportunity as everyone else to get the loyalty rewards.

True, true but you don't have to buy anything so it's less serious.
I would still feel bad for missing out on something like that.

Then that's too bad, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

Paparoski · February 2015

Danikat wrote: »

Considering some of the promotions/rewards that were released before going buy-to-play I'd be very surprised if the crown store didn't include limited time items.

They've already awarded exclusive pets for participating in the beta, buying the Imperial Edition, pre-ordering, subscribing for 6 and 9 months, paying your subscription via steam and buying a guar plush toy. And those are just the ones I've heard about while reading the forum, there may well be others.

I don't think B2P games are evil scams to force money from players like some people do (the opposite in fact, I'd rather play a B2P game than a P2P one) but since ZoS have already shown a tenancy towards limited time/availability cosmetic items I think it would be very surprising for them to stop that trend now.

I see your point but all the rewards you listed are not really limited time.
You can get them easily whenever you want. The beta pet can be bought now for 5 bucks on ebay like all the other pets except for the imperial edition which can be bought now as a digital copy.

Roechacca · February 2015

Expect every high pressure sales technique to be implemented .

nerevarine1138 · February 2015

Roechacca wrote: »

Expect every high pressure sales technique to be implemented .

Like ads?

There's not a whole lot they can do to make things "high pressure" when there isn't actually a salesman in front of you.

BlueIllyrian · February 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Expect every high pressure sales technique to be implemented .

Like ads?

There's not a whole lot they can do to make things "high pressure" when there isn't actually a salesman in front of you.

Really, Neverwinter for example increases lockbox drop rate and offers keys for sale at a discount prices at the same time.

There are many options for high pressure sales in a video game.

Out of curiosity is there one thing you dislike about this game?

Gidorick · February 2015

Lol. @Denidil. I should. I totally have collectors disorder.

"Hello my name is Gid.... and I buy useless crap."

But as far as the practices go for the crown store, I say ZOS needs to do whatever they can to make as much money aa they can. The more funds they get, the more Tamriel gets unlocked. I just hope wet don't get popups in game with ads... but anything short of that.... go ahead.

nerevarine1138 · February 2015

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Expect every high pressure sales technique to be implemented .

Like ads?

There's not a whole lot they can do to make things "high pressure" when there isn't actually a salesman in front of you.

Really, Neverwinter for example increases lockbox drop rate and offers keys for sale at a discount prices at the same time.

There are many options for high pressure sales in a video game.

Out of curiosity is there one thing you dislike about this game?

Plenty of things, but nothing major. Certainly nothing major enough to equate a lack of willpower with high pressure sales techniques.

Don't want to buy something? Don't buy it.

Kaizxen · February 2015

IMO, there's nothing wrong with a few special things only being available for a limited time. I do think that most items should be available permanently so that everyone can enjoy them.

However, if ZOS implements limited availability items that are also gated behind RNG (such as putting them in lockboxes), then I'll move to another game very quickly.

ArconSeptim · February 2015

Miflett wrote: »

I'm a big crazy now a days and really expect to have all content "available" to me when I purchase a game and subscribe. "Available" in this context refers to something that I can have access to, without time concern, to be achieved by progress in game or through purchase. This virtual currency shop path has crushed my dreams of enjoyment out of many once pleasant experiences.

I fully support a virtual shop if the development of it stays grounded and player-thinking. Far too many times have I seen this path end up with the shop team predatorily making "time limited exclusives now in the cash shop." If we go down that road here, coupled with my ocpd about collecting things, I will sadly have to move on.

Just, please, stay grounded and leave time limited predatory cash grabs out of the shop. I know you respect your base, and wish you luck in this. We'll all need it.

I think they might give us rideable dragons check out here http://goo.gl/u8eFik

Faugaun · February 2015

Denidil wrote: »

Gidorick - no offense bro/sis ... but you need to see a professional for your shopping obsession.

Also to everyone else calling 'limited time offers' predatory... wow, what a bunch of spoiled people you are. You have no idea what predatory practices are. Payday loan sharks, that's predatory practices.Offering starvation wages because your workers have no mobility, that's predatory practices. Offering inferior internet service with *** customer support because you have no competitors, that's predatory practices.

Offering purely optional cosmetic items on a limited time basis is not a predatory practice. I suggest you all get a large cup of perspective tea.

Oh, you had Comcast too? I fired them as soon as there was another option!

Gave ya an awesome !

Metrobius · February 2015

Miflett wrote: »

I know you respect your base, and

ZOS has shown no respect for their base. They have lied to us and made excuses to keep us subbed while they shelved our promised content to build a cash shop and a console port.
I suspect youre going to see the worse of the worse in their cash shop. Think: collectable mounts and pets as low probability drops in gambling boxes. Have fun buying keys.

Danikat · February 2015

Paparoski wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Considering some of the promotions/rewards that were released before going buy-to-play I'd be very surprised if the crown store didn't include limited time items.

They've already awarded exclusive pets for participating in the beta, buying the Imperial Edition, pre-ordering, subscribing for 6 and 9 months, paying your subscription via steam and buying a guar plush toy. And those are just the ones I've heard about while reading the forum, there may well be others.

I don't think B2P games are evil scams to force money from players like some people do (the opposite in fact, I'd rather play a B2P game than a P2P one) but since ZoS have already shown a tenancy towards limited time/availability cosmetic items I think it would be very surprising for them to stop that trend now.

I see your point but all the rewards you listed are not really limited time.
You can get them easily whenever you want. The beta pet can be bought now for 5 bucks on ebay like all the other pets except for the imperial edition which can be bought now as a digital copy.

I know they're not time limited. But they are still limited availability items. You can't get any of them through in-game means and (dodgy ebay sales aside) can't simply buy any of them except the Imperial Edition upgrade. The 6 and 9 month subscription rewards are completely impossible to get now.

So my assumption is that since they can and have offered limited availability items before to promote various things it would be entirely unsurprising if they offered limited time items in the crown store.

JamilaRaj · February 2015

That the offer is limited does not mean they will not offer same items ever again. They will try to make it look as though player has the last, best chance to get X right now to compel him to spend, but if X is desirable and sells well, they themselves will be compelled to offer it again in future. Besides, ZOS does not have record of keeping their word, so limited does not have much weight to begin with.
I agree it's predatory towards people with disorders who may even see through such scams but being mentally challenged can not wait and must have it now, but the invisible hand is not here to give them hugs like some evil communist carebear. It's here to award money to the able (as in able to get them).

starkerealm · February 2015

c0rp wrote: »

ZoS has already confirmed there will be limited time offered items in the shop. I like these, and I think most people do. Sorry.

If that's the case, I do hope it's very clear what's limited time and what's going to be constantly available. As I've mentioned elsewhere, one of the things with TSW that seriously pissed me off was their habit of simply pulling stuff from the store without warning.

So far as that goes, the other great sin would be not telling us how long an item will be in the store when it is time sensitive. Cryptic (I think) had this habit of putting in "limited time offers" that would last for months, but not tell you how long they'd be there. It was extremely aggravating.

Froggmann5 · February 2015

Paparoski wrote: »

"That being said, how are you not bothered by not having the 10 month Senche Mount Or any loyalty reward for that matter? Or the Beta Pet Monkey?" ---> Was that the last line ?

I was talking about the rest of my comment.

"Sorry to say, but you're in the Minority. It's perfectly reasonable to have Limited Time items in the store (as long as they are purely cosmetic, and don't make a player more powerful, or reach a higher point quicker than other players).

There would be no value in anything if it was fully available to all players all the time.

It's nice to have items that differentiate players, that's what makes an MMO good. If everyone could be the same, that would be bland and dull. Limited and Unique items help flourish the idea that we can all be different, but on the same level. "

In case scrolling up is too difficult, here it is.

Denidil · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Lol. @Denidil. I should. I totally have collectors disorder.

"Hello my name is Gid.... and I buy useless crap."

But as far as the practices go for the crown store, I say ZOS needs to do whatever they can to make as much money aa they can. The more funds they get, the more Tamriel gets unlocked. I just hope wet don't get popups in game with ads... but anything short of that.... go ahead.

^^^ See everyone, this person has perspective.

Faugaun wrote: »

Oh, you had Comcast too? I fired them as soon as there was another option!

Gave ya an awesome !

I actually took coverage of ISPs into consideration when buying my house. I have 25/25mbit FIOS (and usually connection tests eek a little over my cap to 28-30 each way)

and ty for the awesome

Sky Chancellor · February 2015

Miflett wrote: »

Grapdjan wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with limited time offers. It will at least mean not everyone has everything.

I understand what you are saying, but I am so fundamentally against inequity in games that I really do want everyone to potentially have access to every piece of content.

Part of that comes from a sensitivity to the subject with a disorder I've been working with for a while now. In a world where anything is possible, why do we as players want to derive enjoyment from sucking it away from others?

If it's in the store, I want to see it there to stay, or come back as a rotating schedule. We don't need to mislead players into spending great sums all at once just because we want to predatorily market to collectors.

That's just my two cents, though.

I don't see how people spending cash in the cash shop for limited time (not PW2 items) is a problem. If someone wants to collect ALL the pets, and ALL the mounts - I think that is great. Personally, I could care less. But, why not everyone spend their money and support the game. Why does everything have to remain in the shop forever? The point of the Crown shop is to make money right? If they can make money without selling P2W items, then good for them. No one should be envious or jealous because certain players have EVERY item in the game. That is what they want to do, and people should just let them do it. Without worrying about it. Let people collect what they want to collect.

Funkopotamus · February 2015

GIDORICK! You sir deserve something from ZOS "SRSLY" They should be sending midgets dressed in Guar suits to mow your lawn every month or so..

Anyways to the OP..

They have already said on the live stream that they will be running time limited offers/sales!

starkerealm · February 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

GIDORICK! You sir deserve something from ZOS "SRSLY" They should be sending midgets dressed in Guar suits to mow your lawn every month or so..

Anyways to the OP..

They have already said on the live stream that they will be running time limited offers/sales!

No, Gidorick already pays for the Guar Suited midgets to mow his lawn. They've been doing that for years.

Majic · February 2015

Buying Time

Miflett wrote: »

Just, please, stay grounded and leave time limited predatory cash grabs out of the shop.

ZOS wants to make limited time offers because they work so well.

You don't want ZOS to make limited time offers because they work too well.

You can see where this is going.

Soulshine · February 2015

Having some good laughs reading some of the posts in this thread... @Gidorick in particular: I believe there are drugs for your compulsion? or wait maybe it is the result of drugs, forget which, lol

I have sort of mixed feelings about these types of things. I think they can be a good source of revenue on the one hand, but also a source of griping and negativity among players.

In LotrO some items were marketed as "limited time" only in their store, over and over in fact, but the truth is those things always cycled back around at some later point in the year.

I have no doubt the same would happen here, since I think that the way they handled the Senche and the Loyalty Program rewards proves they are not above making any "exclusive" item available to anyone for the right price at any time.

Gidorick · February 2015

... I DID try to get my FIRST stuffed Guar to mow my lawn.

The results were... well...

I miss Mercutio.

starkerealm · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

... I DID try to get my FIRST stuffed Guar to mow my lawn.

The results were... well...

I miss Mercutio.

But... NOOOOOooooooooooo..........

BlueIllyrian · February 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Expect every high pressure sales technique to be implemented .

Like ads?

There's not a whole lot they can do to make things "high pressure" when there isn't actually a salesman in front of you.

Really, Neverwinter for example increases lockbox drop rate and offers keys for sale at a discount prices at the same time.

There are many options for high pressure sales in a video game.

Out of curiosity is there one thing you dislike about this game?

Plenty of things, but nothing major. Certainly nothing major enough to equate a lack of willpower with high pressure sales techniques.

Don't want to buy something? Don't buy it.

You didn't answer my question.

nerevarine1138 · February 2015

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

Expect every high pressure sales technique to be implemented .

Like ads?

There's not a whole lot they can do to make things "high pressure" when there isn't actually a salesman in front of you.

Really, Neverwinter for example increases lockbox drop rate and offers keys for sale at a discount prices at the same time.

There are many options for high pressure sales in a video game.

Out of curiosity is there one thing you dislike about this game?

Plenty of things, but nothing major. Certainly nothing major enough to equate a lack of willpower with high pressure sales techniques.

Don't want to buy something? Don't buy it.

You didn't answer my question.

In point of fact, I did.

Q: Out of curiosity is there one thing you dislike about this game?
A: Plenty of things, but nothing major.

Oh hey, look. It was literally the first sentence in that post.

Lionxoft · February 2015

"I have kids and a family. I want to be just as good as someone that has a lot of time to play the game"

-Whale-

Hiding pay to win as a convenience item is stupid. Make good content and it will sell itself. There's no need to dig around in our pockets @ZOS_MattFiror .

Miflett · February 2015

It's been a while since I posted this, so I just want to clarify a little bit:

It's almost inevitable that this stuff will exist in this current market of MMOs, I just advise some conservatism. I know many people who find it hard to start something because they feel like they've already missed out on too much.

I'm of the old mind which doesn't work any more, or in this current market. I believe in playing in an unrestricted world where unobtainable things aren't always held over heads as if to imply some status symbol. Not everyone will agree with that, I know. In a world of inequalities, the last place I want unobtainable things held over heads is in a virtual world.

This mentality doesn't want to do away with all challenge and work for achieving something, just wants to lessen the impact of all these so called vanity items that often times ruin the importance of actual gameplay.

I'm fine with a rotating schedule of items as long as they are upfront about things. GW2 didn't used to let people know that most of their stuff would be coming back, but since then they've helped the situation a lot by rotating things around. Never say never is all I'm saying.

We're seing this limited time only exclusive ___ a little too much in our games nowadays. I just want to push against it a little bit where I can, thats all. There's a good and bad way to do this stuff.

Funkopotamus · February 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

"
Hiding pay to win as a convenience item is stupid. Make good content and it will sell itself. There's no need to dig around in our pockets @ZOS_MattFiror .

Sure there is a "NEED".... The game lost SUBfee money so you can bet that the devs want to "Feed family and kids" Also the Investors will be wanting a return as well.

People that think they are going to just buy ONE Guar mount and never look back are going to be seriously disappointed!

I for one will support the game and buy things I want and if ZOS goes to far then I will uninstall it is just that simple really.

Lionxoft · February 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

"
Hiding pay to win as a convenience item is stupid. Make good content and it will sell itself. There's no need to dig around in our pockets @ZOS_MattFiror .

Sure there is a "NEED".... The game lost SUBfee money so you can bet that the devs want to "Feed family and kids" Also the Investors will be wanting a return as well.

People that think they are going to just buy ONE Guar mount and never look back are going to be seriously disappointed!

I for one will support the game and buy things I want and if ZOS goes to far then I will uninstall it is just that simple really.

I think you might have taken it a bit too literal @Funkopotamus . That's my fault for not being clearer. Sure, there's a need to make revenue but it's my belief that they can make that by offering quality content and updates. There's no need to sell power in the crown store and it's kind of funny that they already are offering it before the store even goes up.

Hope you see my point.