A small request. Practice Dummy and/or DPS Meter

Moezilla

Zenimax,

1. Can we please have a practice dummy or some type of simulator to practice our abilities on?
- Some of us are perfectionists, or just need practice. Having a dummy to test out our abilities/rotation would be nice

2. DPS(Damage Per Second) Meter
- There are already addons that track DPS, and for the most part everyone posts their DPS anyway.
- I don't understand why the game allows APIs to see what loot was dropped but cannot see individual DPS. I would rather keep my loot to my self, and have my DPS public.

- If we cannot have individual DPS trackers, Is it possible to track group DPS?

PBpsy

This has been asked many times but we do not want that here because it will create ''elitist jerks" who will steal our sweetrolls. Anyways we can provide you with a commie guar that farts rainbows and poops hugs if you want.

AlexDougherty

1. Will be accompanied by the achievement "But the Dummy Won"

2. I would rather not have people demanding to know what my DPS is, I'm not doing trials, and it's not necessary for regular dungeons. If I group with someone, I do pull my own weight, and have on several occassions carried others. But once people start asking what your DPS is, part of the social factor evaporates, and people will start asking as soon as it become available.

Moezilla

AlexDougherty wrote: »

1. Will be accompanied by the achievement "But the Dummy Won"

LOL That would be awesome

AlexDougherty wrote: »

2. I would rather not have people demanding to know what my DPS is, I'm not doing trials, and it's not necessary for regular dungeons. If I group with someone, I do pull my own weight, and have on several occassions carried others. But once people start asking what your DPS is, part of the social factor evaporates, and people will start asking as soon as it become available.

Sounds like you are running with the wrong type of people. We consistently ask guild members to link DPS. We do this NOT to bash them, but to find out if they are already doing well, or if they need help. If they do need help, and are willing, we set them up with a class lead.

dharbert

Zenimax is never going to implement anything that actually helps you with your build, skills, or loadout. They haven't implement friendly duels or practice dummies because they don't want you to know exactly how everything works, or if certain skills or sets are working the way they are supposed to or not.

AlexDougherty

Moezilla wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

2. I would rather not have people demanding to know what my DPS is, I'm not doing trials, and it's not necessary for regular dungeons. If I group with someone, I do pull my own weight, and have on several occassions carried others. But once people start asking what your DPS is, part of the social factor evaporates, and people will start asking as soon as it become available.

Sounds like you are running with the wrong type of people. We consistently ask guild members to link DPS. We do this NOT to bash them, but to find out if they are already doing well, or if they need help. If they do need help, and are willing, we set them up with a class lead.

Not in this MMO but it was a preoccupation is SWTOR, and for all the wrong reasons. This MMO I've been taking slower, so I'm not up to the trials yet, still building up my characters, all six of them (will revisit my seventh (actually my fourth) too at some point)

Amsel_McKay

DPS is such a stupid guideline for game play... In ESO 99.9% of mobs die before I can use all my abilities, I can have 1900 DPS if my ULT is up... or 1200 if its not...

I had a "3000 DPS" DK in my group who died 7or8 times in a dungeon because he did not move away from the red spots because it would "mess up his DPS" guess what... your DPS is also downtime between battles.

Survivability and social aspects are what make a better player, people who focus on DPS and have such defined armor and roles are the worst players to play with... DPS is an epeen disease that has destroyed so many MMOs... Healers, Tanks and Control chars seem to always get a bad name.

Korah_Eaglecry

PBpsy wrote: »

This has been asked many time but we do not want that here because it will create ''elitist jerks" who will steal our sweetrolls. Anyways we can provide you with a commie guar that farts rainbows and poops hugs if you want.

Theres already Elitist Jerks. Dont kid yourself.

Lord_Draevan

AlexDougherty wrote: »

2. I would rather not have people demanding to know what my DPS is, I'm not doing trials, and it's not necessary for regular dungeons. If I group with someone, I do pull my own weight, and have on several occassions carried others. But once people start asking what your DPS is, part of the social factor evaporates, and people will start asking as soon as it become available.

That already happens. Some people ask you to download a mod that calculates your DPS, or they won't let you join. Luckily, it's rare.

asteldian

I would like a dps metre. I know people like to be ignorant of their ability/inability, but it helps no one. You don't want to deal with elitist jerks then that is fine, just do what you are doing because they are out there already. But people struggling with terrible builds and not knowing why they are having a hard time is not helpful. The game is full of skill choices but without dps metres you may enjoy the build style but suck and want to do better, swapping out skills may give you a feel for improvement but you don't know until its too late if you still suck

Moezilla

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

DPS is such a stupid guideline for game play... In ESO 99.9% of mobs die before I can use all my abilities, I can have 1900 DPS if my ULT is up... or 1200 if its not...

I had a "3000 DPS" DK in my group who died 7or8 times in a dungeon because he did not move away from the red spots because it would "mess up his DPS" guess what... your DPS is also downtime between battles.

Survivability and social aspects are what make a better player, people who focus on DPS and have such defined armor and roles are the worst players to play with... DPS is an epeen disease that has destroyed so many MMOs... Healers, Tanks and Control chars seem to always get a bad name.

If DPS is such a bad thing, then why do All 3 end bosses in all 3 Trials have an enrage timer that if you dont do enough damage to them within a certain amount of time you WILL die.

You had a bad experience with 1 player and now want to bash the entire idea???

DPS is part of the game whether you like it or not.

ssewallb14_ESO

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

I had a "3000 DPS" DK in my group

nope.

Ahdora

If you want to find a dummy to practice your rotation on, just go to Cyrodiil.

UrQuan

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

I had a "3000 DPS" DK in my group

nope.

I think you missed the part where he used quotations on "3000 DPS"... As in, the DK claimed that he was getting 3000 DPS, not as in he was actually getting that.

ssewallb14_ESO

UrQuan wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

I had a "3000 DPS" DK in my group

nope.

I think you missed the part where he used quotations on "3000 DPS"... As in, the DK claimed that he was getting 3000 DPS, not as in he was actually getting that.

Yea, my point was it's not even possible, validating the grandparent's disbelief of said player's dps claim.

Gix

Moezilla wrote: »

1. Can we please have a practice dummy or some type of simulator to practice our abilities on?
- Some of us are perfectionists, or just need practice. Having a dummy to test out our abilities/rotation would be nice

I practice on NPCs all the time... they'll do far more than what a practice dummy would ever do.

With that said, I kind of like the idea of having an NPC practice party that doesn't die nor kill you... in areas where you see soldiers camped out. It'd be cool to be able to shoot targets for archers just for roleplaying sake.

Moezilla wrote: »

2. DPS(Damage Per Second) Meter
- There are already addons that track DPS, and for the most part everyone posts their DPS anyway.
- I don't understand why the game allows APIs to see what loot was dropped but cannot see individual DPS. I would rather keep my loot to my self, and have my DPS public.

The only meter you really need is the health bar and, if that's not enough, your own gut feeling.

If other people can track your loot, they can ask to trade if they find something (however unlikely) interesting... or, worse case scenario, complain that you have it. If other people can track your DPS, the situation can escalate to a point where one player can be discriminated.

Like you said, there already are addons... so... ... Thankfully most if not all track your own personal DPS.

Moezilla wrote: »

- If we cannot have individual DPS trackers, Is it possible to track group DPS?

That makes things even worse.

The problem is the POSSIBILITY of harassment of discrimination which impedes on the gaming experience intended by the developers. Not whenever or not people will actually do it.

helediron

I am a crafter and a tinkerer. You know those guys who keep asking these annoying questions like "What is the exact difference between Magnus and Seducer". I wants test dummies.

Alphashado

There is already a DPS meter with the FTC addon and probably a few others. It's a pretty good setup because only you can link your own dps if you choose to. This cuts back on elitist while still giving you a tool to practice builds and rotations with.

Practice dummies have been asked for with no response from ZOS. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/140994/formal-request-for-target-dummies/p1

PBpsy

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

This has been asked many time but we do not want that here because it will create ''elitist jerks" who will steal our sweetrolls. Anyways we can provide you with a commie guar that farts rainbows and poops hugs if you want.

Theres already Elitist Jerks. Dont kid yourself.

O'rly?!!???!!!?

Moezilla

Gix wrote: »

The problem is the POSSIBILITY of harassment of discrimination which impedes on the gaming experience intended by the developers. Not whenever or not people will actually do it.

Like I said in a previous post, if you are getting harassed by your teammates because your DPS is too low you are probably playing with the wrong type of people.

As far as I noticed this game is rated Mature by ESRB. If you don't know how to handle a little constructive criticism or even harassment as an adult then you should probably go play Pokemon.

AGAIN...There are multiple bosses in the game that have an enrage timer, not just in trials, that WILL kill your group if you don't have enough DPS. With that said, having a DPS meter will allow for players to develop their characters(if they are willing to take advice.)

DeLindsay

dharbert wrote: »

Zenimax is never going to implement anything that actually helps you with your build, skills, or loadout. They haven't implement friendly duels or practice dummies because they don't want you to know exactly how everything works, or if certain skills or sets are working the way they are supposed to or not.

This. It's the only valid reason I can see why ZoS wouldn't implement Dueling and Target Dummies for Player use.

Ahdora wrote: »

If you want to find a dummy to practice your rotation on, just go to Cyrodiil.

I see what you did there

AlexDougherty

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

2. I would rather not have people demanding to know what my DPS is, I'm not doing trials, and it's not necessary for regular dungeons. If I group with someone, I do pull my own weight, and have on several occassions carried others. But once people start asking what your DPS is, part of the social factor evaporates, and people will start asking as soon as it become available.

That already happens. Some people ask you to download a mod that calculates your DPS, or they won't let you join. Luckily, it's rare.

Yeah, I have seen it on chat, but as you say it's rare, in SWTOR it was common, I'm hoping it stays rare and socialable.

Gix

Moezilla wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

The problem is the POSSIBILITY of harassment of discrimination which impedes on the gaming experience intended by the developers. Not whenever or not people will actually do it.

Like I said in a previous post, if you are getting harassed by your teammates because your DPS is too low you are probably playing with the wrong type of people.

As far as I noticed this game is rated Mature by ESRB. If you don't know how to handle a little constructive criticism or even harassment as an adult then you should probably go play Pokemon.

AGAIN...There are multiple bosses in the game that have an enrage timer, not just in trials, that WILL kill your group if you don't have enough DPS. With that said, having a DPS meter will allow for players to develop their characters(if they are willing to take advice.)

Whenever you can take the harassment or not is not the issue, the issue is whenever or not harassment can happen. There's a subtle yet important distinction between the two.

spryler

Moezilla wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

The problem is the POSSIBILITY of harassment of discrimination which impedes on the gaming experience intended by the developers. Not whenever or not people will actually do it.

Like I said in a previous post, if you are getting harassed by your teammates because your DPS is too low you are probably playing with the wrong type of people.

As far as I noticed this game is rated Mature by ESRB. If you don't know how to handle a little constructive criticism or even harassment as an adult then you should probably go play Pokemon.

AGAIN...There are multiple bosses in the game that have an enrage timer, not just in trials, that WILL kill your group if you don't have enough DPS. With that said, having a DPS meter will allow for players to develop their characters(if they are willing to take advice.)

There is your built in DPS meter, the enrage timer.

DPS meters definitely have a place in games like these. They can be a useful tool to see who is underperforming or to test different gear set ups.

Having said that, I hate them with a passion. I have played with too many players who care ONLY about their DPS. And I find myself caring too much about my dps when I have one downloaded. Will I be less likely to rez a fallen comrade if I have a dps meter and I know my numbers will be lower?

Scenario - My guild wipes on a boss, but a couple guys are happy with the attempt because they did good dps. You should never be happy about an attempt that ends with a wipe, even if you did perfect mechanics and great dps.

I might download a DPS meter, use it to test out some different gear set ups, then delete it again.

BTW - I do great dps. I know I do great dps because I've run tons of veteran dungeons with low and high dps people and have observed how fast things die. Also people tell me I have really good dps because they notice also.

A damage meter is not necessary to show you are doing good dps, but can have it's place in the game.

facemace

Just activate the target dummies that already exist in game and add some more. That way people who don't use DPS counters can just ignore them or use them to test ability ranges / rotations. Those who are already using the DPS add on will be happy too.

Wifeaggro13

Moezilla wrote: »

Zenimax,

1. Can we please have a practice dummy or some type of simulator to practice our abilities on?
- Some of us are perfectionists, or just need practice. Having a dummy to test out our abilities/rotation would be nice

2. DPS(Damage Per Second) Meter
- There are already addons that track DPS, and for the most part everyone posts their DPS anyway.
- I don't understand why the game allows APIs to see what loot was dropped but cannot see individual DPS. I would rather keep my loot to my self, and have my DPS public.

- If we cannot have individual DPS trackers, Is it possible to track group DPS?

Becaus every spec but dress and stick is broken and produces half the dps of this build in a proper rotation. They think restricting this info will help hide the imbalance from new players or recently new to end game players. 1 year post launch and melee burst is non existent and light armor tanks are still the norm. Restrictig the API is the solution to keep the masses from noticng the end game dynamics

BBSooner

There is currently a self dps meter so I'm not convinced an in-game global meter is needed, imo. Target dummies would be nice, though. I can see how people might be concerned with spell effects going off all over town - or inadvertent agro when the justice system goes live - so adding a basement to Fighters Guilds (a la TES Oblivion) with target dummies and a functional sparring mat (for duels) would be my request.

Merlin13KAGL

spryler wrote: »

Moezilla wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

The problem is the POSSIBILITY of harassment of discrimination which impedes on the gaming experience intended by the developers. Not whenever or not people will actually do it.

Like I said in a previous post, if you are getting harassed by your teammates because your DPS is too low you are probably playing with the wrong type of people.

As far as I noticed this game is rated Mature by ESRB. If you don't know how to handle a little constructive criticism or even harassment as an adult then you should probably go play Pokemon.

AGAIN...There are multiple bosses in the game that have an enrage timer, not just in trials, that WILL kill your group if you don't have enough DPS. With that said, having a DPS meter will allow for players to develop their characters(if they are willing to take advice.)

There is your built in DPS meter, the enrage timer.

DPS meters definitely have a place in games like these. They can be a useful tool to see who is underperforming or to test different gear set ups.

Having said that, I hate them with a passion. I have played with too many players who care ONLY about their DPS. And I find myself caring too much about my dps when I have one downloaded. Will I be less likely to rez a fallen comrade if I have a dps meter and I know my numbers will be lower?

Scenario - My guild wipes on a boss, but a couple guys are happy with the attempt because they did good dps. You should never be happy about an attempt that ends with a wipe, even if you did perfect mechanics and great dps.

I might download a DPS meter, use it to test out some different gear set ups, then delete it again.

BTW - I do great dps. I know I do great dps because I've run tons of veteran dungeons with low and high dps people and have observed how fast things die. Also people tell me I have really good dps because they notice also.

A damage meter is not necessary to show you are doing good dps, but can have it's place in the game.

Indeed, successful completion is the ultimate deciding factor.

DPS numbers depend on so many different factors, too: Crits, movement (dodging/blocking), weaknesses, AoE/Single target, dumb luck (as in who the boss decides to target, etc)

Besides, there's always the straggler that will mess up your numbers - the lone spider or archer tucked in the corner that just...won't...die.

When the numbers are great, they're great. But when someone else is doing well and they don't feel they're hitting that often arbitrary level, it's disheartening, not motivating.

It's a fine line and you want to help people improve to improve, not so they can have a number that, by itself, does not give you an indication of the ultimate outcome.

Moezilla

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Becaus every spec but dress and stick is broken and produces half the dps of this build in a proper rotation. They think restricting this info will help hide the imbalance from new players or recently new to end game players. 1 year post launch and melee burst is non existent and light armor tanks are still the norm. Restrictig the API is the solution to keep the masses from noticng the end game dynamics

FYI There are stamina builds that are competing with magicka builds right now. If you had a dummy and a DPS meter you would be able to test that out

I keep reading that people are worried about harassment and ruining the social aspect of the game. I'm not sure how many times I have to say this, If you're worried about your online "friends" harassing you instead of helping you, they probably aren't your friends.

This is just getting silly, people are coming up with random scenarios to justify something as simple as a DPS meter. If we cant have a DPS meter then I think the API for dropped loot should be taken out in all fairness. If we cant see DPS, we shouldn't be able to see what loot they received.

I would really appreciate if someone from Zenimax would comment on this and get it straightened up.


Please @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ ?

Romo

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

This has been asked many time but we do not want that here because it will create ''elitist jerks" who will steal our sweetrolls. Anyways we can provide you with a commie guar that farts rainbows and poops hugs if you want.

Theres already Elitist Jerks. Dont kid yourself.

Well, we already know that. But let's not create a bunch more. OK?

Zorrashi

Ok, first off, let me just say that I am anti-DPS meter. Of all of its incantations other games, DPS meters are just like inspection features; certain players will use the features to better perform on their discriminatory habits and not only use it for their own groups (which is fine on its own), but can try and push their ideology/standard onto others because the in-game feature makes it easier to do so.

I would be completely content with never having a DPS meter of any sort. That being said, if any sort of DPS meter/testing dummy was implemented...
The DPS values cannot be directly linked into chat. While I would prefer there to be no group DPS, a group DPS that does not show DPS on a player by player basis would be fine.
Just keep the DPS numbers personal, and make sure no one can pry into what your actual DPS is (unless you have add-ons).