Why people use the same, generic sets

blabafat

This post is mainly for magicka builds.

One of the best, if not THE best magicka set combination is Warlock, Seducer, 2PC Torug's Pact. Why?

There are a couple of reasons:
1: It's Ideal
2: Traits

1: Why is it ideal? Because you can fit all of them on. 2PC Torug's Pact will increase your spell damage, and right now, there are tons of players that run Sword and shield magicka builds. It only makes sense. Warlock has 3 pieces of jewelry and ALL armor pieces. You can put on 3PC jewelry and 2PC armor, leaving you 5 spaces for what? Seducer. This is possible because there is a full set of jewelry for warlock. . If you are running 3 pieces of jewelry and 2 pieces of armor, you can use whatever armor pieces you want(warlock is available in all light armor).

2: What about the Traits? Warlock has infused. Seducer and Torug's pact can have whatever you want(Crafted sets). Infused is one of the best traits in my opinion(I'm sure others would agree). If you want to run infused, the best place to put it is on legs, hood, or robe because you will get the most out of it on those pieces. Warlock is available IN THOSE PIECES.

Don't get me wrong here please. I am not trying to say nerf Seducer/Warlock/Torug's. I'm trying to say BUFF OTHER SETS. There are so many sets that would be SOOO good if they had better traits and more jewelry pieces. An example is Desert Rose. The set bonuses are great, however it has Exploration. It is available in VETERAN RANKS. Exploration gives the littlest experience when you are a veteran rank; boosting it by 30%(I don't know the exact amount if wearing 5PC's) will not help you level..

EDIT- This is mainly for pvp.

Ahdora

I'd be fine with other armor sets becoming more attractive. Some sets are just seen as mostly worthless, and mostly by comparison.

It would also have the added benefit of boosting the ingame economy a bit. More stuff for sale. More affordable armor choices, and without everyone seeking those few sets, those pieces would drop at least a little bit in price.

blabafat

Ahdora wrote: »

I'd be fine with other armor sets becoming more attractive. Some sets are just seen as mostly worthless, and mostly by comparison.

That's what I want. There needs to be either better sets, or improve the current sets by changing the traits/add more jewelry.
Perhaps Jewelry crafting will fix this problem.

AlexDougherty

I haven't used any of those yet, I have a mix of Allessia's Bulwark and Willow's path on my Sorc (VR2), Mostly to bolster up his weaknesses.

But he's PVE only at the minute, I would probably look at other sets for pVP.

ThatHappyCat

I'd love to use the Desert Rose set (Exploration and all!), except it only comes on 5 pieces of armour which conflict completely with the other sets I'm wearing...

IMO a lot of sets need more pieces.

Morvul

the alternative would be: allow us to craft jewelry --> instantly opens up the 3 jewelry slots for crafted sets, thereby allowing way more flexibility to wear dropped armor pieces

Gyudan

Let me just name a few sets that are also widely used in PVE and much better than Warlock/Torug/Seducer imo.

Light/Magicka
- Wise Mage
- Infaillible Mage
- Elegance
- Worm's Raiment
- Soulshine
- Twilight's Embrace
- Valkyn Skoria
- Nightflame

Medium/Stamina
- Hunding's Rage
- Viper's Sting
- Hircine's Veneer
- Red Mountain
- Quick Serpent
- Vicious Serpent
- Sunderflame

Heavy/Health
- Footman's Fortune
- Undaunted Bastion
- Hist Bark
- Ebon Armory
- Immortal Warrior
- Eternal Warrior
- Bloodspawn
- Scourge Harvester


Please refrain from starting threads if you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks.

AlexDougherty

Morvul wrote: »

the alternative would be: allow us to craft jewelry --> instantly opens up the 3 jewelry slots for crafted sets, thereby allowing way more flexibility to wear dropped armor pieces

Yeah, I keep hoping that the next update will include Jewellery Crafting (the next one won't BTW, but maybe the one after that) and I keep getting disappointed.

We need this Crafting line, the randomness of jewellery in game needs, yes needs to be mitigated by allowing us to make rings and amulets.

Ahdora

Gyudan wrote: »

Please refrain from starting threads if you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks.

None of what you said invalidates the OP. Did you read it?

The fact remains that a ton of people use the combo he mentioned, or some small variation of it. There is a reason for that. Some of the lesser-used sets could benefit from a buff.

blabafat

Gyudan wrote: »

Please refrain from starting threads if you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks.

Ok let me correct myself. Those are the sets that MOST magicka pvp builds use, and some will include an undaunted set.

blabafat

Morvul wrote: »

the alternative would be: allow us to craft jewelry --> instantly opens up the 3 jewelry slots for crafted sets, thereby allowing way more flexibility to wear dropped armor pieces

Yep yep yep

manny254

I am tiered of people with their dam warlock. Its not that good, but because someone else said it was the best others use it. Then they can not entertain the thought of using something else, and we get these threads.

Gyudan

blabafat wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Please refrain from starting threads if you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks.

Ok let me correct myself. Those are the sets that MOST magicka pvp builds use, and some will include an undaunted set.

Maybe you should have specified that this thread was only valid for PVP then, or started it in the Alliance War section.

For PVP
- Way of the Arena
- Willow's Path
- the set with 15% ultimate cost reduction on 3 pieces, can't remember the name
- Infaillible Mage
- Valkyn Skoria
- Bloodspawn
- Scourge Harvester
- Undaunted Unweaver
- the 3 sets you mentioned earlier

manny254 wrote: »

I am tiered of people with their dam warlock. Its not that good, but because someone else said it was the best others use it. Then they can not entertain the thought of using something else, and we get these threads.

+1

Magdalina

manny254 wrote: »

I am tiered of people with their dam warlock. Its not that good, but because someone else said it was the best others use it. Then they can not entertain the thought of using something else, and we get these threads.

Actually the best thing about Warlock is jewelry. If it was just 5 pc cloth armor no one'd look at it. 3 pc jewelry+2 light pieces with not stupid trait and a universally useful bonus allow for amazing flexibility - you still have 5 armor pieces and 1-2 weapon slots to fill with whatever set you want. Even tanks can and do use Warlock since most of them run 2 pc light anyway.

Wolfsspinne

It's the same in any RPG, isn't it?

There are many sets some good for damage and some good for survivability.
Yet there is "only one" way to play a mage, which is pure damage.


Now I don't want to say that all the sets are perfect, some should be tweaked.
But I think people use nothing else but the sets for the most damage stats is because there is no need for other stats.
This is where ZOS should change something... Like massive inevitable AoEs from bosses that would one-shot any full-dps-mage. And more random-aggro trash-mobs that make all party-members an off-tank.

But as long as full-dps-builds are an option there will always be "the one and only BIS-set".

skillastat

I still don't understand why I can't get the Warlock rings v12.

This is unfair.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Gyudan wrote: »

Please refrain from starting threads if you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks.

At least the OP posted his reasons, you didn't, I wonder why?

Do YOU know what you're talking about I wonder?

driosketch

I agree with some of your main points. I find myself a slave of the set system, trying to cram as much of 2-3 sets onto a character as possible to make use of the bonuses. Usually this means a drop set that has jewelry pieces, and filling out the rest with crafted peices. This leaves little margin to work with, and turns even unique item drops from a boss into deconstruction trash. And limited options for compatible drop sets also hampers character customization a bit.

Some ideas I'd think would help:
-Expand all drop sets to the full range of items, not just a select five.
-Add jewelry crafting.
-Create a system that lets you alter things about an item through crafting.
Example: For one mat you could raise an item one level as long as you had the skill points to create a peice of that same material type. When raising or improving an item, you had the option to change/add a trait or change style provided you knew both the existing and new trait/style you wanted, (or apply a set trait if there was none yet and you were at a set station).

This would mean there would be a lot more drop set trash, but at the same time normal trash items wouldn't be as useless. This would kill the market for certain set pieces, but at the same time increase the demand for services for crafters that had invested a lot of time in their characters. And it would allow for greater freedom to experiment and customize for the player, though they'd have to tweaked the set balance somewhat.

olsborg

All the sets really need some attention, right now theres looaads that are highly unused and just a few thats used by most people. This is clearly...wierd.

Valencer

What would be really nice is if we could craft our own jewelry with the crafted set bonuses.

blabafat

driosketch wrote: »

I agree with some of your main points. I find myself a slave of the set system, trying to cram as much of 2-3 sets onto a character as possible to make use of the bonuses. Usually this means a drop set that has jewelry pieces, and filling out the rest with crafted peices. This leaves little margin to work with, and turns even unique item drops from a boss into deconstruction trash. And limited options for compatible drop sets also hampers character customization a bit.

Some ideas I'd think would help:
-Expand all drop sets to the full range of items, not just a select five.
-Add jewelry crafting.
-Create a system that lets you alter things about an item through crafting.
Example: For one mat you could raise an item one level as long as you had the skill points to create a peice of that same material type. When raising or improving an item, you had the option to change/add a trait or change style provided you knew both the existing and new trait/style you wanted, (or apply a set trait if there was none yet and you were at a set station).

This would mean there would be a lot more drop set trash, but at the same time normal trash items wouldn't be as useless. This would kill the market for certain set pieces, but at the same time increase the demand for services for crafters that had invested a lot of time in their characters. And it would allow for greater freedom to experiment and customize for the player, though they'd have to tweaked the set balance somewhat.

Yes I agree with you. Jewelry crafting and more options for sets would be great.

LonePirate

I run a Magicka based build in PVP and I don't use Seducer, Torug's Pact or Warlock at all.

blabafat

LonePirate wrote: »

I run a Magicka based build in PVP and I don't use Seducer, Torug's Pact or Warlock at all.

Not EVERYONE does. But I think it's the most common.

manny254

blabafat wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I run a Magicka based build in PVP and I don't use Seducer, Torug's Pact or Warlock at all.

Not EVERYONE does. But I think it's the most common.

So how did you measure this?

blabafat

manny254 wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I run a Magicka based build in PVP and I don't use Seducer, Torug's Pact or Warlock at all.

Not EVERYONE does. But I think it's the most common.

So how did you measure this?

This post isn't about Torug's seducer warlock. I mentioned them, but what I'm trying to say is other sets need love.

pronkg

Warlock+seducer+ torug / right enchants and attributes is just infinite mana that's why people choose those

Is it the best for every situation? Ofcourse not

Forestd16b14_ESO

Reason a lot of players use these cookie cutter builds is because they have been proven the most powerful or most useful. Players say this game isn't play how you want which we all know is elder scrolls motto. Yes it is still play how you want it's the player who don't play how they want because there way is weaker than "play how OP wants". They play with what ever build is the most powerful cause they think if there the most powerful there the best that's why they use theses builds instead of making there own. Having fun with a game be elder scrolls or another with friends or strangers who become friends is what makes you the best not using OP builds and killing every one.

Samadhi

Warlock + Seducer + Torug's Pact is versatile and gives good stats for Magicka builds in general. The versatility means it is a solid choice for people who are unclear on how they want to tweak a Magicka build to more specific needs.
This combination is good for builds where Magicka management is a primary concern.

However, my two most frequently used Magicka builds for PvP are
5 Eyes of Mara + 2 Cyrodiil's Light (rings) + 2 Cyrodiil's Crest (Neck and Chest) + 2 Magnus
5 Martial Knowledge + 2 Cyrodiil's Light (rings) + 4 Magnus

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

It's the same in any RPG, isn't it?

There are many sets some good for damage and some good for survivability.
Yet there is "only one" way to play a mage, which is pure damage.


Now I don't want to say that all the sets are perfect, some should be tweaked.
But I think people use nothing else but the sets for the most damage stats is because there is no need for other stats.
This is where ZOS should change something... Like massive inevitable AoEs from bosses that would one-shot any full-dps-mage. And more random-aggro trash-mobs that make all party-members an off-tank.

But as long as full-dps-builds are an option there will always be "the one and only BIS-set".

i think this one hit it on the head.... i am a tank, so i can't talk intelligently about the specific sets brought up, but i have still seen drops that had great set bonuses then weak traits and vice versa. i am under the impression, that they figured players would include more armor type variations (light/medium/heavy) than is actually used. PVP is a good example- people have complained about sorcerers not surviving in PVP (i don't know if they suck or not i just saw the posts). ZoS may very well be of the mind "then stack some heavy armor, duh". this wouldn't be a universal option though, since you wouldn't need light+heavy in PVE- just light. now i do like their changes to heavy armor passives, but that doesn't wholly justify the need for magicka users to use it universally. a good theory, isn't always a good concept....

for those that mentioned jewelry crafting.... im 95% sure its a work in progress, and could very well be completed or in final testing, but will be released as a "cookie" item in some content update at a later date. there are a few reasons i could see, that stop them from putting it in now.

examples: should jewelry be its own trade or tied into blacksmithing? are there enough skill points in the world to support it? what material would it use (new versus preexisting)? when should we implement it?

another point to make is that there are no player-made poisons. im sure they plan to put that in as well so with that in mind, it could effect how they execute both systems based on the "example" questions above.

Tamanous

Is it a shock to some that low trait and easily looted sets are crafted more? Does it further shock some that some sets are more specific to certain build combinations that are less common and therefore are less common?

The OP voices common sets used with magicka builds which instantly narrows the choice anyway. Investigate the reasons behind this and it becomes clear. Some builds may focus on magicka AND potion use and would therefore vary from the norm but potion builds are likely limited to NB and perhaps even Argonians further narrowing how many exist.

Uniformity is mathematically improbable in complex systems. It is simply reality.

Curragraigue

I would agree that those sets get used a lot, although infused is probably more of a PvE trait than a PvP trait. I have however seen some great set combos for different builds so probably wouldn't say it is the best combination.

I can't see ZOS allowing us to change item traits because it will likely have a negative impact on the raiders chasing drop sets if someone can easily change drop sets by crafting.

I think more items for sets and/or crafted jewellery would be great additions to give some more flexibility to set options.

A little off topic but since people have mentioned a review of current sets please please please consider a change to the Thunderous set trait ZOS. It is crying out to be an impenetrable PvP tank set. I loved using it in Cyrodiil for some fun but with a sturdy trait on four pieces of armour it is just not feasible.