Is the Sorcerer a good PvP class?

SFBryan18

All this talk about how Sorcerer doesn't have any advantages over other classes in end game PvE, I'm just curious if that is because Sorcerer is balanced for PvP. My main in a Sorcerer, but I am only V1 and am waiting for all the changes before advancing and trying PvP, so please fill me in on how strong the Sorcerer class is against real players. What are their advantages against other classes?

Dracane

I think, Sorcerers are actually decent in PvE (Only the DPS is bad)
But PvP is, where it becomes critical. We're the worst PvP class.
I'm always wondering, why all the people are complaining about PvE. PvP is worse.

All your abilties ignore blocks. But the damage is very low, depends on chances or time. This is maybe the only "benefit" . And you can escape from combat.

Teargrants

Bolt Escape and Negate are both good PvP classes. Can't say about Sorc thoguh. =\

Kikazaru

The only advantage we have as a sorc is bolting into the sunset.

Dracane

Kikazaru wrote: »

The only advantage we have as a sorc is bolting into the sunset.

Or sometimes into abysses
But yeah, the only good skills is the nerfed bolt escape.

ArcanusMagus

Teargrants wrote: »

Bolt Escape and Negate are both good PvP classes. Can't say about Sorc thoguh. =\

Exactly this.

Curragraigue

I've seen large groups melt in a well placed negate. I haven't done much PvP with my sorc so can't really comment otherwise.

MADshadowman

Well i have seen some really good sorcs. They are usually not able to nuke a group of people like templars or dks can, but on single targets they can be very effective damage-wise. and they just bolt away if things don't work out, heal, shield up and then they come back, ready for more action.

So, they can be a constant pain and a great support for their group. A good sorc really can turn things around in a battle.

Lorkhan

i think its rlly difficult 1x1 a good sorc. even a bad sorc, cos they dont die, they flee. when in group, negate is the most important skill. so... welcome to cyrodiil. pve is for kids

Curragraigue

The highest ranked player I'm aware of is also a sorc (Crystalized) I know from him killing me a few times in Thorn that he likes wall of elements, crystal shard and negate on his bar.

I think all of the classes have strengths in PvP it is all about learning how to play the class because PvE set ups usually don't work well in PvP. I started a toon in Cyrodiil at VR1. It was fun and you can learn alot from it. You also then have a better idea what skills you need to level for when you come back

TheBull

Sorc is Awesome. Unkillable if played correctly.

@Curragraigue‌ Crys is not set up for 1v1 at all since he started running with that group. Easy kill solo nowadays. Used to be really tough.

olsborg

Ive played a sorc in pvp for almost a year now and I love it, our dps isnt exactly balanced with certain other classes, but we make up for that in survivability, sustainability and the ability to flee almost any scene.

Do we need some love? In the dps department, yes, yes we do.

xarguideb17_ESO

Sorcerer can be very good in the hands of a good player.
You should check out
http://deltiasgaming.com/2015/01/07/eso-pvp-builds/
Deltia's guide for pvp sorc.
Extremely durable.
Amazing build.

Curragraigue

TheBull wrote: »

Sorc is Awesome. Unkillable if played correctly.

@Curragraigue‌ Crys is not set up for 1v1 at all since he started running with that group. Easy kill solo nowadays. Used to be really tough.

I've only come across Crystalized when he is with 20+ other EP in a zerg train :'(

Flaminir

Fun = Yes
Balanced Vs other classes = No

They are definitely harder to play than other classes in PvP, but that makes you a better player. But you do need to work on it.

Deltias guide/build shown above is fun, and you can adapt it if you aren't a vamp as well. (Though don't expect to be able to wipe whole groups solo without those damned bats! )

Dracane

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerer can be very good in the hands of a good player.
You should check out
http://deltiasgaming.com/2015/01/07/eso-pvp-builds/
Deltia's guide for pvp sorc.
Extremely durable.
Amazing build.

No, it's not.
This is the mainstream Sorc build. Besides crushing shock, the only build that can reach something.

He's acting like this build was super easy and super strong. But it's not O.o I wonder, what that guy is thinking or if he even has experience against good players. And besides that, he has added some wrong informations.

I like this man, he's cute and a bit funny, but he should keep on playing his DK instead of his "Sorcie Porky" ^^

Jahosefat

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Mojomonkeyman

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Try to negate tank with fury-curse-streaking in heavy. Extremely potent but more of a support build since your dmg impact is not as high as a dk i.e.

But you can facetank just as good.

tplink3r1

Yes, Sorcs are in my opinion the second best PvP class.

Iselin

Dracane wrote: »

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerer can be very good in the hands of a good player.
You should check out
http://deltiasgaming.com/2015/01/07/eso-pvp-builds/
Deltia's guide for pvp sorc.
Extremely durable.
Amazing build.

No, it's not.
This is the mainstream Sorc build. Besides crushing shock, the only build that can reach something.

He's acting like this build was super easy and super strong. But it's not O.o I wonder, what that guy is thinking or if he even has experience against good players. And besides that, he has added some wrong informations.

I like this man, he's cute and a bit funny, but he should keep on playing his DK instead of his "Sorcie Porky" ^^

Not just that, it's a vampire build. I mean... fair enough, anyone can be a vampire but it's not what I think of when discussing Sorcerer builds.

Merlin13KAGL

TheBull wrote: »

Sorc is Awesome. Unkillable if played correctly.

@Curragraigue‌ Crys is not set up for 1v1 at all since he started running with that group. Easy kill solo nowadays. Used to be really tough.

That's the kicker in most cases. 10 slots, 2 ults won't let you be prepared for every kind of scenario, esp if one or more is a two-bar toggle.

Find the right scenario, it's great. Stumble into the wrong one, it's over.

Since you can't really change skills mid battle, I suspect this is true for most builds.

Jahosefat wrote: »

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

I get such a kick out of this kind of thinking.

Do you not do everything you can to survive? Do you roll dodge? Do you block? How about potions?

Do you just stand there in the AoE and eat it, hoping your numbers come out ahead of the other guys?

Do you take off half your armor off so the AC is matched with your opponent?

Every build works well in certain ways. Why people still find it so odd that anyone wouldn't use every skill they have to survive, especially in a place like Cyrodiil, completely baffles me.

But Sorc's use their abilities. Sorc's (generally) don't do toe to toe with Melee in full Heavy Gear, so Sorc's are weak or scared.

Give me a break. There's so much more to the class than one skill.

Jahosefat

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Try to negate tank with fury-curse-streaking in heavy. Extremely potent but more of a support build since your dmg impact is not as high as a dk i.e.

But you can facetank just as good.

While your negate is up and people are (stupidly) casting aoes into it, yes you can become unkillable while that negate is up. Doing a lot of aoe damage during that is the challenge. But regardless, I disagree that it is anywhere as close as sustainable or good as DK/NB/Temp tank.

And here is a link to a video of me negate tanking! http://youtu.be/JzQE_BLGn7k

It can be good, but it can also fall completely flat if no one casts anything into the negate.

Vunter

Sorcs can be very good. Having a lot of reflectable abilities doesn't help, but I go around with an electric staff and daedric curse.
Obviously if you have a staff (or any weapon that doesn't include a shield xD) and you're against a shield user in 1 vs 1 you'll die.
But this happens with any class.

Sword and shield sorc is good. Put a resto on other bar and stack damage shields.
This tactic is lame and mainstream, but this is the metagame atm.
Anyway, you can find many guides online so not gonna write a lot more, just this: remember that ball of lightning isn't useful only for escaping and it absorbs all projectiles! This morph of bolt escape is really useful for ranged sorcs!

edit: i can't write :v

Mojomonkeyman

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Try to negate tank with fury-curse-streaking in heavy. Extremely potent but more of a support build since your dmg impact is not as high as a dk i.e.

But you can facetank just as good.

While your negate is up and people are (stupidly) casting aoes into it, yes you can become unkillable while that negate is up. Doing a lot of aoe damage during that is the challenge. But regardless, I disagree that it is anywhere as close as sustainable or good as DK/NB/Temp tank.

And here is a link to a video of me negate tanking! http://youtu.be/JzQE_BLGn7k

It can be good, but it can also fall completely flat if no one casts anything into the negate.

Well, how do you expect to sustain with non-s&b, non-heavy and the poor amount of stamina you have. You run a standard destro damage/regen build. Even a DK needs s&b to do what you claim a sorc can`t (which I agree on).

You are missing out on a few key elements to make it work in your vid, quite a few tbh.

Kas

Sorcs are VERY good PvP classes. I rolled one after christmas (only V14 for little more than a week now and only got barrier+caltrops, still far from AvA rank 24) - specifically FOR PvP.

However, their strength mostly covers two things:

1. Duels
2. Negate Magic ultimate in bigger groups.

Their weaknesses are, imho:
1. Compared to other classes they have a much harder time going 1 vs 10+ noobs. Sure, sorcs can stand outnumbered and win (and escape pretty well with blink). But that's so much harder than what dk's do. I'm pretty sure it would be possible to kill 5+ as a properly build dk with you cast reflective scale, charge a good spot and start rolling your face on your keyboard. as logn as you hit banner and talons buttons every other second and the occasionaly drain magicka / dragon blood, you're doing something useful already. Try that as a sorc...
2. It is hard to master all classes but super easy to become at least okay-strong (no 10sec free-kill) - unless you are a sorc (and maybe NB) where you already need to know your class to go from free-kill to average.
3. Having THE best skill for grp pvp but it has to be used correctly and the whole build adjusted for building up ultimate asap can be frustrating.

Jahosefat

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Try to negate tank with fury-curse-streaking in heavy. Extremely potent but more of a support build since your dmg impact is not as high as a dk i.e.

But you can facetank just as good.

While your negate is up and people are (stupidly) casting aoes into it, yes you can become unkillable while that negate is up. Doing a lot of aoe damage during that is the challenge. But regardless, I disagree that it is anywhere as close as sustainable or good as DK/NB/Temp tank.

And here is a link to a video of me negate tanking! http://youtu.be/JzQE_BLGn7k

It can be good, but it can also fall completely flat if no one casts anything into the negate.

Well, how do you expect to sustain with non-s&b, non-heavy and the poor amount of stamina you have. You run a standard destro damage/regen build. Even a DK needs s&b to do what you claim a sorc can`t (which I agree on).

You are missing out on a few key elements to make it work in your vid, quite a few tbh.

LOL what aoe does a S/B sorc use to drop groups I ask? And if you say destro, how does said sorc heal when he can't channel and no negate is up? Sorc has no stam regen passive/buffs so they will always be the weakest S/B class. Also, need resto for heals, unless you are trying to channel in the middle of groups while tanking ;P

[Edit]: I figured it out, you are describing a PVE sorc tank. Try it out in Cyr solo and see how that goes for you

Mojomonkeyman

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Try to negate tank with fury-curse-streaking in heavy. Extremely potent but more of a support build since your dmg impact is not as high as a dk i.e.

But you can facetank just as good.

While your negate is up and people are (stupidly) casting aoes into it, yes you can become unkillable while that negate is up. Doing a lot of aoe damage during that is the challenge. But regardless, I disagree that it is anywhere as close as sustainable or good as DK/NB/Temp tank.

And here is a link to a video of me negate tanking! http://youtu.be/JzQE_BLGn7k

It can be good, but it can also fall completely flat if no one casts anything into the negate.

Well, how do you expect to sustain with non-s&b, non-heavy and the poor amount of stamina you have. You run a standard destro damage/regen build. Even a DK needs s&b to do what you claim a sorc can`t (which I agree on).

You are missing out on a few key elements to make it work in your vid, quite a few tbh.

LOL what aoe does a S/B sorc use to drop groups I ask? And if you say destro, how does said sorc heal when he can't channel and no negate is up? Sorc has no stam regen passive/buffs so they will always be the weakest S/B class. Also, need resto for heals, unless you are trying to channel in the middle of groups while tanking ;P

[Edit]: I figured it out, you are describing a PVE sorc tank. Try it out in Cyr solo and see how that goes for you

Whatever floats your boat, man. I don`t do PvE. You should be smart enough to figure somethign out yourself.

Derra

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Try to negate tank with fury-curse-streaking in heavy. Extremely potent but more of a support build since your dmg impact is not as high as a dk i.e.

But you can facetank just as good.

While your negate is up and people are (stupidly) casting aoes into it, yes you can become unkillable while that negate is up. Doing a lot of aoe damage during that is the challenge. But regardless, I disagree that it is anywhere as close as sustainable or good as DK/NB/Temp tank.

And here is a link to a video of me negate tanking! http://youtu.be/JzQE_BLGn7k

It can be good, but it can also fall completely flat if no one casts anything into the negate.

Well, how do you expect to sustain with non-s&b, non-heavy and the poor amount of stamina you have. You run a standard destro damage/regen build. Even a DK needs s&b to do what you claim a sorc can`t (which I agree on).

You are missing out on a few key elements to make it work in your vid, quite a few tbh.

LOL what aoe does a S/B sorc use to drop groups I ask? And if you say destro, how does said sorc heal when he can't channel and no negate is up? Sorc has no stam regen passive/buffs so they will always be the weakest S/B class. Also, need resto for heals, unless you are trying to channel in the middle of groups while tanking ;P

[Edit]: I figured it out, you are describing a PVE sorc tank. Try it out in Cyr solo and see how that goes for you

Whatever floats your boat, man. I don`t do PvE. You should be smart enough to figure somethign out yourself.

Have to take a stand for Mojo here. He´s definetly one of the most creative players i´ve met when it comes to builds for his sorc. His tank build with s&b does work i´ve tested a variation myself.

Jahosefat

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

Try to negate tank with fury-curse-streaking in heavy. Extremely potent but more of a support build since your dmg impact is not as high as a dk i.e.

But you can facetank just as good.

While your negate is up and people are (stupidly) casting aoes into it, yes you can become unkillable while that negate is up. Doing a lot of aoe damage during that is the challenge. But regardless, I disagree that it is anywhere as close as sustainable or good as DK/NB/Temp tank.

And here is a link to a video of me negate tanking! http://youtu.be/JzQE_BLGn7k

It can be good, but it can also fall completely flat if no one casts anything into the negate.

Well, how do you expect to sustain with non-s&b, non-heavy and the poor amount of stamina you have. You run a standard destro damage/regen build. Even a DK needs s&b to do what you claim a sorc can`t (which I agree on).

You are missing out on a few key elements to make it work in your vid, quite a few tbh.

LOL what aoe does a S/B sorc use to drop groups I ask? And if you say destro, how does said sorc heal when he can't channel and no negate is up? Sorc has no stam regen passive/buffs so they will always be the weakest S/B class. Also, need resto for heals, unless you are trying to channel in the middle of groups while tanking ;P

[Edit]: I figured it out, you are describing a PVE sorc tank. Try it out in Cyr solo and see how that goes for you

Whatever floats your boat, man. I don`t do PvE. You should be smart enough to figure somethign out yourself.

"I don't have a good answer so I will deflect..." very helpful answer.

Curragraigue

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

There is no health return from blazing shield it is really the combo of blazing shield plus breath of life that makes Temps comparable to DK tanks. If it was as simple as just blazing shield sorcs have lightning form which is comparable to blazing shield.

Jahosefat

Curragraigue wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

In my view, a big discrepancy between sorc and other classes (and there are others ) is there is no PVP tank option that allows you to do good aoe damage while tanking. DK obviously can do this, NB has the sap tanks, and Templar has blazing shield tanks. There is no parallel build or set of abilities that allow sorcs to do something like this in PVP (which can be done on all other classes).

What sorcs can do is streak around. And if you surprise a group of not-so-good players you can keep them somewhat pinned down with streak; presenting the illusions of "taking on a large groups". But streak is much more easily countered than dk/saptank/temp and much, much less sustainable. Kiting is the only thing sorcs have an advantage over other classes in PVP, and with more stam templar builds showing up this is becoming less the case.

TLDR: Sorcs have a good get away. So if you like running away from fights, sorcs are great

There is no health return from blazing shield it is really the combo of blazing shield plus breath of life that makes Temps comparable to DK tanks. If it was a simple as just blazing shield sorcs have lightning form which is comparable to blazing shield.

I'm aware, it is just the name some people use for tanky templar builds relying on blazing shield for a major source of aoe damage and damage mitigation (often combined with things like devouring swarm). I know. But again, there is no parallel sorc build to these three (very effective) pvp tank builds (which are all very common sites in cyr).