Has there been Official Response to the animation canceling issue?

TehMagnus

Razzak wrote: »

When is damage applied? At the start of skill animation or at the end?
Animation can be something that takes a certain amount of time, but damage is applied instantly, so it is this moment that defines our attack and not what we see.
If damage is applied at the start of our skill, animation is pointless in a way. It's there only so we can identify what we are doing and our moves look better, more "realistic". If, on the other hand, damage is applied at the end of our skill execution, any kind of canceling would be pointless. The third option is that damage is applied at the moment our weapon or spell connects with the enemy, but considering this is online game, it would probably be very dependent on lag or similar.

Flurry (DW skill) is a skill that takes 1.25 sec and it has to be completed in full in order to do it's maximal damage. So, this would imply damage is done at the end of skill completion. Do light and heavy attacks follow the same logic?

At least of staffs, damage is applied when the projectile hits the target, regardless of cast time or the animation being canceled. It is the same for auto attacks or medium charged attacks. The more you charge your medium attack, the more damage it will do (at least on staffs). I heard that 2H or DW (can't remember which one) medium charged attacks deal as much damage as a fully charged one but haven't tested this yet.

As for skills, it's the same, damage is applied when the animation hits the target (aka as soon as you cancel it most of the times and except for some specific skills that won't fire up if canceled too soon). If you cancel crushing shock quickly enough, you won't even see the beam of light traveling to the target but he will still get hit.

This is why I'm saying ZOS just doesn't want to fix this, at least at the moment, since all they'd have to do is either make animations impossible to cancel (CD after activating a skill that impedes the activation of any other attack or skill) or make it so if the attack is canceled before the cast timer ends, then no damage is applied. But then again, for them to change this, it would have to actually be a bug or a problem instead of something that was just unintended but is still a game mechanic. But I guess QQers will QQ .

kieso

I live with it, but wish they'd change it. It's just weird to cancel your skills.

DarkAedin

the addition of clipping introduced a skill factor that is gives the modern MMO'er something harder to do during combat to maintain a high dps.

in nearly every game that has this, macro'ing for animation canceling doesnt really work b/c of "lag", that being said, its become somewhat of a honed skill, to time out your button presses instead of just spamming sh*t.

in fact, if you google "animation cancelling" you will see a ton of games with active combat allowing you to clip.

this has been going on for years, get with the program and stop complaining about a mechanic thats been around since the dawn of video games

heres an extremely old game with animation cancelling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qdyhRmSFmc

Rioht

Personally I dislike a system that 90% of players who do not visit forums/social sites are unaware of.

If this is a legit game decision, then please include this into the tuitorial so that EVERY player is aware of it.

Hidden, game changing mechanics that apprear to be a glitch is not a great way to design a game...

TehMagnus

Rioht wrote: »

Personally I dislike a system that 90% of players who do not visit forums/social sites are unaware of.

If this is a legit game decision, then please include this into the tuitorial so that EVERY player is aware of it.

Hidden, game changing mechanics that apprear to be a glitch is not a great way to design a game...

What tutorial? Where is there a guide that explains how everything works?

There isn't even an accurate description of how your skill works and what they scale damage of (magicka, stamina, spell/wep dmg) or what they crit on nor any description of any of the game systems.

I guess it's up to you to find out what they are. (Edit: Not saying this is a good thing, IMO things like this should be explained and ZOS is actually working a lot to make the game more coherent in update 6 but just saying that you can't use this argument against animation canceling since it's the same thing for all of the game systems).

melodeath

first of all.. it takes no skill.. its just button smashing.. so stop saying we are "baddies" and grow up

second.. if you really think things like this should stay in games.. well than why should company's bother to make better games? since apparently the "uber leetzors players" preffer bugged combat animations

but to prove my previous point beeing that theres no points in arguing with people like you is proven yet again by the fact that all you can do to defend is to call people who preffer to see it gone "bad" and telling them to go play a different game...

your mentallity reminds me of all the other toxic "gamers" like for example on youtube,zone chat etc etc..

i remember myself beeing almost like you in other games when i was younger..but i actually grew up and preffer to see things how they should be for the greater good of video games instead of beeing catered to elitists who dont leave their room..

TehMagnus

melodeath wrote: »

first of all.. it takes no skill.. its just button smashing.. so stop saying we are "baddies" and grow up

second.. if you really think things like this should stay in games.. well than why should company's bother to make better games? since apparently the "uber leetzors players" preffer bugged combat animations

but to prove my previous point beeing that theres no points in arguing with people like you is proven yet again by the fact that all you can do to defend is to call people who preffer to see it gone "bad" and telling them to go play a different game...

your mentallity reminds me of all the other toxic "gamers" like for example on youtube,zone chat etc etc..

i remember myself beeing almost like you in other games when i was younger..but i actually grew up and preffer to see things how they should be for the greater good of video games instead of beeing catered to elitists who dont leave their room..

You call it bugged combat animations, I call it a mechanic and according to the game developers that's just what it is. deal with it and grow up instead of QQing and calling people kids with a condescending self entitled tone just because you don't like the fact they're right

melodeath

some day you'l learn to appreciate propper gameplay.. but untill than.. have fun beeing the gaming hero i'm not going to waist anymore time trying to have a discussion with a person that doesnt see further than in-game stats since its getting quite irritating to see the mentallity of you people go more and more into the crapper.

Shunravi

melodeath wrote: »

some day you'l learn to appreciate propper gameplay.. but untill than.. have fun beeing the gaming hero i'm not going to waist anymore time trying to have a discussion with a person that doesnt see further than in-game stats since its getting quite irritating to see the mentallity of you people go more and more into the crapper.

Likewise

TehMagnus

melodeath wrote: »

some day you'l learn to appreciate propper gameplay.. but untill than.. have fun beeing the gaming hero i'm not going to waist anymore time trying to have a discussion with a person that doesnt see further than in-game stats since its getting quite irritating to see the mentallity of you people go more and more into the crapper.

"Proper gameplay", lol, this is like saying, "proper game", "proper mechanics" and is totally subjective to each person. Which speak miles about your sense self-entitlement @melodeath (even if your condescending tone & comments where already doing that for you).

I understand that you don't appreciate the gameplay as it is and clearly this is frustrating you a lot . If you really can't stand "unproper gameplay", you're free to look for other "proper games" offering "proper gameplay" for you to enjoy without the need to go in the forums and dump all your frustration and resentment on people who disagree with you and agree with the game developers.

And don't let the door hit you on the way out grampa .

Semfim

Yo Rambo, now you've started offering unsubs? Real classy... you're a charmer!

Xjcon

Animation canceling Imo adds depth to the combat system. How is it bad game design? It's a unique combat style that gives the player a way to Push their dps higher by timing things better.

Hechicera

Animation Cancelling is not new, or unique, or even skillful after all these years. It is effective. The kicker for me, is that I don't find it FUN, nor do my friends. I can, I have. I was one of the first Bards to perfect twisting in EQ. These days I have a programmable keyboard & mouse, and time to hone the timing with or with out them. Maybe its fun for you? Fine! If someone says they are more hardcore than me since they can punch themselves in the nuts 100 times a minute when I can only do it 50 times a minute, or I don't like doing it at all, Well, yes. You are certainly more hardcore. Carry on, I'll be over here watching ...

Why post then? I'm trying to get my friends & family to reconsider this game. Both own it. The one that does PvE replied with "How much of the game can I play before that becomes expected?". Ouch. The PvP nut was appalled. He enjoys animation cancelling in order to juke other players and make them waste defenses. If there is no penalty for doing that (like here) you lose significant skill and tactical depth. However, I will caveat, that combat is already sluggish feeling in TESO, so if fixing it would decrease what satisfaction in combat you get now, that may be a poor trade. If you leave it as it is though, the game is going to self select for only players that enjoy this mechanic. It isn't clear cut.

The tone in this thread is disturbing though. From their tone, I doubt I would enjoy playing with many of the loudest posters regardless of how good they are at punching themselves in the nuts. Maybe it's not my game, fine. Many players are probably scanning these boards with the b2p change trying to decide just that. If the game seems to be full of argumentative elitists, well .. like animation cancelling: the challenge of besting that is long faded. Most of us have our t-shirts, and we went home to play with our friends in whatever game they have fun in. I think TESO should think about that as well.

The mechanic may put off some returning customers, as it does my friends. I don't know how many of the pool of potential players. Many current players are probably fine with it. I don't know what percentage. However, the tone in this thread will also alienate some players regardless of how they feel on the question. If you want the game to stay open, maybe be nicer. If you don't care, carry on.

Panda244

Hechicera wrote: »

Animation Cancelling is not new, or unique, or even skillful after all these years. It is effective. The kicker for me, is that I don't find it FUN, nor do my friends. I can, I have. I was one of the first Bards to perfect twisting in EQ. These days I have a programmable keyboard & mouse, and time to hone the timing with or with out them. Maybe its fun for you? Fine! If someone says they are more hardcore than me since they can punch themselves in the nuts 100 times a minute when I can only do it 50 times a minute, or I don't like doing it at all, Well, yes. You are certainly more hardcore. Carry on, I'll be over here watching ...

Why post then? I'm trying to get my friends & family to reconsider this game. Both own it. The one that does PvE replied with "How much of the game can I play before that becomes expected?". Ouch. The PvP nut was appalled. He enjoys animation cancelling in order to juke other players and make them waste defenses. If there is no penalty for doing that (like here) you lose significant skill and tactical depth. However, I will caveat, that combat is already sluggish feeling in TESO, so if fixing it would decrease what satisfaction in combat you get now, that may be a poor trade. If you leave it as it is though, the game is going to self select for only players that enjoy this mechanic. It isn't clear cut.

The tone in this thread is disturbing though. From their tone, I doubt I would enjoy playing with many of the loudest posters regardless of how good they are at punching themselves in the nuts. Maybe it's not my game, fine. Many players are probably scanning these boards with the b2p change trying to decide just that. If the game seems to be full of argumentative elitists, well .. like animation cancelling: the challenge of besting that is long faded. Most of us have our t-shirts, and we went home to play with our friends in whatever game they have fun in. I think TESO should think about that as well.

The mechanic may put off some returning customers, as it does my friends. I don't know how many of the pool of potential players. Many current players are probably fine with it. I don't know what percentage. However, the tone in this thread will also alienate some players regardless of how they feel on the question. If you want the game to stay open, maybe be nicer. If you don't care, carry on.

@Hechicera no one expects you to Animation Cancel man, it's not required for anything, the only time it's legitimately useful is in PvP, for PvE... Ups your DPS.... yippity doo! DPS! I was never a PvE nut, and DPS never, and will never matter to be so long as I deal significant damage.

Itoq

Cuyler wrote: »

^I just got my 100th LOL from whoever this was. TY!

Remember when the ESO forums were filled with the joyful laughter of the children?

And then ZOS took away our ability to laugh and all we had left was bickering over which buttons we should be able to mash and when we should be able to mash them

JaJaLuka

lol

ZRage

A/C works best with certain skills and it's useless with others therefore it's just bad mechanic, they should simply add cooldowns to normal attacks where player can't take any actions for the time of animations or at least portion of it.

Currently it's not only bad looking but also annoying, you see being hit once, while you take 3 hits instead.

Bloodfang

Fix Animation Cancelling already.

It's a lazy design. Nothing skillful either, anyone can master it in max an hour.
Apart from that it also looks very immersive breaking and well like a crap combat system..
I know so many players that left because of that.

wrathofrraath

Animation canceling is an art form. People may copy your gear, skills, attributes but they might not ever learn how to perform like you do because this is the one aspect of DPSing that is an aquired skill and is affected by your real life playing skills. Everyone has their own way of doing it and ZOS realizes and supports this. It is one of the factors that make my DPS different than yours yet everyone is capable of doing.

I also disaprove of macros, L2P

Merlin13KAGL

Quick question, have those that cancel ever noticed a responsiveness difference from different types on mice, whether brand vs brand or wired vs wireless/bluetooth?

Davadin

Read most of the post but not ALL...

So can anyone explain (in layman's term), the difference between animation cancelling and using macro?

In my head, animation cancelling is when you override an animation of a skill/attack with a shorter-animated skill/attack to achieve both damages within one animation period.

Macro-abuse, I thought is using macro to execute a combination/series of skill/attack RAPIDLY beyond what's physically possible to EXPLOIT game-mechanic flaws - such as network lag, or specific skill animation repetition, or code bugs.

Thoughts?

ItsRejectz

They will never do anything about it, that i know for sure. Its almost impossible to get rid of unless they add cooldown timers to all the skills.
DCUO was the samen instead of getting rid of animation canceling, the devs embraces it and started releasing videos of combos you could animation cancel when new powers were released.

Suru

Just move along.

Eliteseraph

I said this in the last thread, so I'll say it again here. The only reason Zenimax 'embraces' animation cancelling is because they have bigger problems to deal with, such as the console release. It's poor design by the devs, and borderline bug exploit by the players. The only reason it isn't being fixed is because it's easier to gloss it over and point to some players liking it than it is to go neck deep into the code and redesign the flaw and make a quality game.

As fun as ESO is in some regards, it's sloppy and poorly built in many others. I know the devs don't like to see people crap all over their hard work, but we're a year into the game now and there are still major flaws with the game. Why is that acceptable?

If animation cancelling is going to be a 'feature' of the game, then it needs to be fully and completely embraced by the devs. They need to add tutorials that explain to players how it works. It needs to be part of patch notes. It needs to be fully and completely balanced and checked and tested by the devs as a real mechanic of the game, and not some mystical ambiguous technique that only the most 1337 M4573R5 of gaming gurus fully understand.

This is not a L2P issue. It's a design and implementation issue that needs to be resolved one way or the other.