Why is Tamriel in ESO flat?

Bozrah

I was just watching a video review of Cyrodiil ESO vs Oblivion and it hit me about half way through that the areas that i have visited seems to lack much of the hills and mountains that i remember from the past. Cyrodiil seems barren (Trees) compared to what was introduced into Oblivion.
Now i know is his 800 or so years in the past but the changes seem so extreme. Entire mountains are missing, and the same goes for Skyrim. Where did all the wonderful mountains go?

Here on planet earth, there are trees that still exist to this day that have been around for more than 1000 years. I couldn't see entire mountains being wiped away in 800 years.

Just in case ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees

I know that much is going on about how ESO could improve, so my suggestion would be to make the landscape more consistent with that of the past Elderscrolls games.

nerevarine1138

The Skyrim topography is actually fairly consistent with that game, but both Skyrim and Cyrodiil need to be flattened out a little because this is an MMO. Zone layout is an entirely different art form.

As for the trees: more trees means more lag. That's why you won't see as much foliage in ESO's Cyrodiil as in Oblivion.

Bozrah

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The Skyrim topography is actually fairly consistent with that game, but both Skyrim and Cyrodiil need to be flattened out a little because this is an MMO. Zone layout is an entirely different art form.

As for the trees: more trees means more lag. That's why you won't see as much foliage in ESO's Cyrodiil as in Oblivion.

I appreciate the time you took to respond. Now another question, obviously Zenimax took on a very large order making an ES mmo with soo many fans of the previous games. Was it a wise decision to cut back on certain aspects of the landscape (Zones, and Topography ^) to "make it work"? The exploration from the past ES games was mind bending. ESO exploration is very much comprehend-able.

edit: On a side note, and please dont gut me for mentioning this but WoW had some extremely LARGE mountains from what i remember. It can be done

nerevarine1138

Bozrah wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The Skyrim topography is actually fairly consistent with that game, but both Skyrim and Cyrodiil need to be flattened out a little because this is an MMO. Zone layout is an entirely different art form.

As for the trees: more trees means more lag. That's why you won't see as much foliage in ESO's Cyrodiil as in Oblivion.

I appreciate the time you took to respond. Now another question, obviously Zenimax took on a very large order making an ES mmo with soo many fans of the previous games. Was it a wise decision to cut back on certain aspects of the landscape (Zones, and Topography ^) to "make it work"? The exploration from the past ES games was mind bending. ESO exploration is very much comprehend-able.

Well, yes and no on the "wise decision" question. It depends on how you're considering it.

Was it a wise decision from the perspective of creating maps that were easy to navigate and traverse in a relatively small time? Absolutely. And since this has to be the primary concern of anyone designing maps for an MMO, then this was a wise decision.

Was it a wise decision to make exploration a little less taxing than games in the single-player series? Meh. There's still plenty of fun stuff to discover if you go off the beaten path. There's just less incentive for the average player to leave the beaten path, because it's hard to design an MMO that does that and doesn't leave people frustrated when they spend hours searching for one particularly hard-to-find spot.

Bozrah

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Bozrah wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The Skyrim topography is actually fairly consistent with that game, but both Skyrim and Cyrodiil need to be flattened out a little because this is an MMO. Zone layout is an entirely different art form.

As for the trees: more trees means more lag. That's why you won't see as much foliage in ESO's Cyrodiil as in Oblivion.

I appreciate the time you took to respond. Now another question, obviously Zenimax took on a very large order making an ES mmo with soo many fans of the previous games. Was it a wise decision to cut back on certain aspects of the landscape (Zones, and Topography ^) to "make it work"? The exploration from the past ES games was mind bending. ESO exploration is very much comprehend-able.

Well, yes and no on the "wise decision" question. It depends on how you're considering it.

Was it a wise decision from the perspective of creating maps that were easy to navigate and traverse in a relatively small time? Absolutely. And since this has to be the primary concern of anyone designing maps for an MMO, then this was a wise decision.

Was it a wise decision to make exploration a little less taxing than games in the single-player series? Meh. There's still plenty of fun stuff to discover if you go off the beaten path. There's just less incentive for the average player to leave the beaten path, because it's hard to design an MMO that does that and doesn't leave people frustrated when they spend hours searching for one particularly hard-to-find spot.

So in the long run, and your personal opinion, do you think that the way the landscape currently is will stay the same or do you think they'll eventually make adjustments? Do you think they'll break down the barriers of each zone and make the world more persistent or decide to stick with what they started with?
My initial thoughts when i heard about ESO and players lashing out, had to do with the landscape changes from the originals and the zone setup.

I could be wrong but Nostalgia seems to be a VERY powerful thing when it comes to gaming series.

bosmern_ESO

Because thats when the game collides with a MMO. If Cyrodiil were to be as hilly and have all the rocks and trees as Oblivion did it would be miserable to fight in.

nerevarine1138

Bozrah wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Bozrah wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The Skyrim topography is actually fairly consistent with that game, but both Skyrim and Cyrodiil need to be flattened out a little because this is an MMO. Zone layout is an entirely different art form.

As for the trees: more trees means more lag. That's why you won't see as much foliage in ESO's Cyrodiil as in Oblivion.

I appreciate the time you took to respond. Now another question, obviously Zenimax took on a very large order making an ES mmo with soo many fans of the previous games. Was it a wise decision to cut back on certain aspects of the landscape (Zones, and Topography ^) to "make it work"? The exploration from the past ES games was mind bending. ESO exploration is very much comprehend-able.

Well, yes and no on the "wise decision" question. It depends on how you're considering it.

Was it a wise decision from the perspective of creating maps that were easy to navigate and traverse in a relatively small time? Absolutely. And since this has to be the primary concern of anyone designing maps for an MMO, then this was a wise decision.

Was it a wise decision to make exploration a little less taxing than games in the single-player series? Meh. There's still plenty of fun stuff to discover if you go off the beaten path. There's just less incentive for the average player to leave the beaten path, because it's hard to design an MMO that does that and doesn't leave people frustrated when they spend hours searching for one particularly hard-to-find spot.

So in the long run, and your personal opinion, do you think that the way the landscape currently is will stay the same or do you think they'll eventually make adjustments? Do you think they'll break down the barriers of each zone and make the world more persistent or decide to stick with what they started with?
My initial thoughts when i heard about ESO and players lashing out, had to do with the landscape changes from the originals and the zone setup.

They aren't going to be merging zones. Zone instancing is extremely important if we don't want players to be lagging out all the time (well, more than they already do).

Remember, this is an Elder Scrolls game, but it's also an MMO. They can't possibly duplicate the single-player experience.

Bozrah

Thank you very much for answering my questions

Gidorick

You may want to watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvXS91_s1D4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUQb-Zp6GQPCnH6W3Emp00vQ

I personally think the differences in the land is a bit less important than things like not being able to swim underwater or chairs you can't sit in.

Bozrah

Gidorick wrote: »

You may want to watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvXS91_s1D4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUQb-Zp6GQPCnH6W3Emp00vQ

I personally think the differences in the land is a bit less important than things like not being able to swim underwater or chairs you can't sit in.

Thank you, ill definitely check that video out.

Edit: haha funny thing is, this is the exact video i mentioned watching in my first post
I did watch it and WoW!

WraithAzraiel

Bozrah wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The Skyrim topography is actually fairly consistent with that game, but both Skyrim and Cyrodiil need to be flattened out a little because this is an MMO. Zone layout is an entirely different art form.

As for the trees: more trees means more lag. That's why you won't see as much foliage in ESO's Cyrodiil as in Oblivion.

I appreciate the time you took to respond. Now another question, obviously Zenimax took on a very large order making an ES mmo with soo many fans of the previous games. Was it a wise decision to cut back on certain aspects of the landscape (Zones, and Topography ^) to "make it work"? The exploration from the past ES games was mind bending. ESO exploration is very much comprehend-able.

edit: On a side note, and please dont gut me for mentioning this but WoW had some extremely LARGE mountains from what i remember. It can be done

WoW also looks like an interactive Saturday morning cartoon. I'd imagine it isn't as heavy on the rendering needs as ESO is.

Bozrah

I agree that WoW isnt even as close in comparison graphics wise, but i will say that i spent a decent amount of money building my computer and WoW on ultra settings chews my Pc up.

(R270x) which i would consider budget.

Mordria

How is this flat?

Iago

why OS a map of north America flat?

Iago

why is a map of north America flat?

DaniAngione

I actually think the game *lacks* some huge, flat landscapes...

But I suppose that's because they have to somehow 'hide' the extremely low view distance/foggy horizon. I mean... just get LOTRO and ride to Rohan and you'll see what's big and what's flat

I love ESO landscape but I really miss some huge fields... And I really hope they'll increase view distance/remove fog one day (without creepy mods/modified clients)

DeLindsay

Cyrodiil is lacking in landscape features because of 2 things: Lag and difficulty in fighting. The rest of Tamriel that we've explored so far in ESO is not remotely flat.

Bozrah

Perhaps i should correct my title by saying that the land of Tamriel isnt literally flat, but compared to there counterparts are far from a 1:1 replica.

ThatHappyCat

Eh, Tamriel as depicted in TES games have (at least since Morrowind) never even come close to being a 1:1 replica. What we see in Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and ESO are essentially extremely simplified versions of what Tamriel's actually like lore-wise. So making very heavy geographical (amongst other things) concessions in the name of sanity is hardly anything new.

jpp

Cyrodill is for PvP fight - if it was done like in Oblivion then all would have to fight on slopes. There are different structures now in ESO, but I think it would be really tiresome to fight in area that is constantly falling in some direction.
Plus the fog - trade for performance (in my opinion too high), but it really hides how land looks like.

seanvwolf

Bozrah wrote: »

Was it a wise decision to cut back on certain aspects of the landscape (Zones, and Topography ^) to "make it work"? The exploration from the past ES games was mind bending. ESO exploration is very much comprehend-able.

Which non-MMO TES games would you prefer it be as close to? Arena? Daggerfall? Oblivion? All the beauty in the world can't be enjoyed if it isn't playable. Trying to "make it work" first is not just a wise decision, it's the only decision.

Jaxsun

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Bozrah wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Bozrah wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The Skyrim topography is actually fairly consistent with that game, but both Skyrim and Cyrodiil need to be flattened out a little because this is an MMO. Zone layout is an entirely different art form.

As for the trees: more trees means more lag. That's why you won't see as much foliage in ESO's Cyrodiil as in Oblivion.

I appreciate the time you took to respond. Now another question, obviously Zenimax took on a very large order making an ES mmo with soo many fans of the previous games. Was it a wise decision to cut back on certain aspects of the landscape (Zones, and Topography ^) to "make it work"? The exploration from the past ES games was mind bending. ESO exploration is very much comprehend-able.

Well, yes and no on the "wise decision" question. It depends on how you're considering it.

Was it a wise decision from the perspective of creating maps that were easy to navigate and traverse in a relatively small time? Absolutely. And since this has to be the primary concern of anyone designing maps for an MMO, then this was a wise decision.

Was it a wise decision to make exploration a little less taxing than games in the single-player series? Meh. There's still plenty of fun stuff to discover if you go off the beaten path. There's just less incentive for the average player to leave the beaten path, because it's hard to design an MMO that does that and doesn't leave people frustrated when they spend hours searching for one particularly hard-to-find spot.

So in the long run, and your personal opinion, do you think that the way the landscape currently is will stay the same or do you think they'll eventually make adjustments? Do you think they'll break down the barriers of each zone and make the world more persistent or decide to stick with what they started with?
My initial thoughts when i heard about ESO and players lashing out, had to do with the landscape changes from the originals and the zone setup.

They aren't going to be merging zones. Zone instancing is extremely important if we don't want players to be lagging out all the time (well, more than they already do).

Remember, this is an Elder Scrolls game, but it's also an MMO. They can't possibly duplicate the single-player experience.

This